why after 2000 years is Novus not that much more advanced then present day earth?

[slimjim]

I wasn't suggesting that they wouldn't know how to make a windmill.
You're average person with a little bit of common sense could probably make one, I don't think you'd need to be an engineer to make a windmill.
What we're talking about here is going from basic stuff like windmills, to modern and then slightly more advanced than modern stuff.
You then believe they should be beyond the level that we've seen, the fact is they had the level of technology we saw.

we went from wind mills and such to what we have now in only a few hundred years

How was it not a real colony?
There was a settlement of people living there, they settled there, hence it's a colony, it just lacked any large buildings, probably because if was relatively new.

it wasn't a deliberate attempt to create a colony, it was basically just a refuge camp

On the planet where the Drones arrived there were many buildings still very much intact, there was no sign of mass damage to that site, not to the point of suggesting large buildings were destroyed.
There's no evidence to suggest what you claim here.

"On the planet where the Drones arrived there were many buildings still very much intact" because they where old building that didn't attract the drones due to the lack of technology
"there was no sign of mass damage to that site" except the episode directly telling us and this shot http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__...de_skyline.jpg

What's modern is relative to what we have now, that includes computer technology, Novus had technology far beyond PS3, Xbox 360s etc.

you suggested it would take only hundreds of years for them to reach the level of technology we are at now, meaning that by 2000 years later for them computers would be far older then the light bulb is for us

We never saw beyond that city on Novus, no one explicitally stated that there were no other countries, unless stated otherwise we can't say there weren't other countries, all we should be saying is that we don't know if there are any others.

There's no point in creating settlements on other worlds, unless they've spread elsewhere throughout their planet and they needed to use space on other planets, this indicates that there should be other regions where the Novans settled on their homeworld and newer regions may not have everything other more established regions would and older areas could have be less well maintained, so it's possible that some people may have less pleasing living conditions that others.

we where told there was only two countries by camille

My point in mentioning those races who've had ftl tech for a long time is that we've never come accross a race with comparable tech to our own (without interference from other races) that possess FTL tech.
It's not like a race gets to our level of technology and can then quickly make FTL work with ease, it could be centuries or even millenia before we make it work, considering that Novan tech appears to be in maybe the decades beyond our's it kinda goes to prove the point that they're right where they should be without intereference.

your missing my point I'm suggesting the novuns should be more advanced not thay already are

I don't know where you've got that idea about us knowing exactly how power it requires, I know some physicists have theorized thinking they know, unless experiments have been done into distorting space.
Would you have any links to any info on experiments?

Hyperdrive engines (if they were possible and hypersoace existed) would also have to distort space, actually opening a hole in space to whatever other dimension hyperspace/subspace occupies, so the power requirements could be greater than a warp drive (alcubierre drive for those who don't know it's official name), since Earth can make these power requirements the Novans should be able to in time, if they can either gain the right materials or make some new powersource like a subspace tap or something like a ZPM.

In your last point you kind of prove the point that FTL should still be beyond the Novans developing by themselves, because they don't have any power generation tech far beyond Earth.
If it's gonna require many orders of magnitude of power to just start to manipulate space to a point where you can start to think about using that, then it's gonna take many more centuries if not longer to actually make a working FTL system.

1) years ago I saw a documentary where they mentioned that engine, on it a physicist said it would take something like the energy of a million suns to propel a ship 1CM at the speed of light using this engine
2) they can power a hyper drive engine with a naquadah generator which isn't that much more powerful then a normal nuclear reactor

[Quizziard]

we went from wind mills and such to what we have now in only a few hundred years

We did - but we had 5000 years of practical, useful, hands-on knowledge to play with. There's very little of that amongst the crew of the Destiny, except by accident. How do you makes screws? How hot do bricks/tiles need to be baked at? And so on. I reckon it would take three or four tries before a reasonably working windmill were made. And then, what sort - grinding corn or powering "machinery"?

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

we went from wind mills and such to what we have now in only a few hundred years

The first windmill or windwheels were made in the 1st century AD, it's taken since then to get to the level we have, they'd need to make the tools to make such large projects a reality before they can even think of making a windmill, homes and food sources would be a priority first, learning about their environment would take longer to achieve, so it could be a few years before they make there first windmills, then they'll need more for larger populations.
It could have taken the Novans time (as in years) to build their first basic water powered stuff, they'd only have small numbers to do things first, this alone makes their level of development plausible.
You're not really proving your point here.

it wasn't a deliberate attempt to create a colony, it was basically just a refuge camp

What? A deliberate attempt at a colony?
A colony is a settlement of people away from their main town or whatever, it's that simple, yes it wasn't like they'd built large buildings, but tents are still fit for the purpose of living offworld depending on the native lifeforms and whether they're hostile to our kind.

"On the planet where the Drones arrived there were many buildings still very much intact" because they where old building that didn't attract the drones due to the lack of technology
"there was no sign of mass damage to that site" except the episode directly telling us and this shot http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__...de_skyline.jpg

If there were skyscrapers there would be more rubble, piled higher than what we see there, again not proving your point here.

you suggested it would take only hundreds of years for them to reach the level of technology we are at now, meaning that by 2000 years later for them computers would be far older then the light bulb is for us

No I never suggested it would happen that way, the fact is we don't know the details of the history, in order to just survive they'd need to make adequate housing, learn what the environment has to offer.
All of that could take many decades.
They'd have to grow in numbers and that would take time.
TBH no one here can say exactly how long it would take to go from nothing to what we have today, yes it would be sped up if the majority of knowledge is there, but not knowing where every material needed is it's gonna take an unknown amount of time to develop to our current level.

we where told there was only two countries by camille

OK, but you'd still have people from whatever side living in a different geographical region, regions of a certain side's land could be less catered for than in others, you can't prove otherwise, I'm just saying it's possible and since we weren't told either way no one can rule it out.

your missing my point I'm suggesting the novuns should be more advanced not thay already are

I'm not missing anything, I'm saying what we see as their current level of technology isn't implausible, because what we see is what they've got.

1) years ago I saw a documentary where they mentioned that engine, on it a physicist said it would take something like the energy of a million suns to propel a ship 1CM at the speed of light using this engine

If he's just theorize based on his understanding of physics then he could be wrong, the only way to know for sure is to run experiments that actually distort space, unless someone's done that any numbers are just guess work.

2) they can power a hyper drive engine with a naquadah generator which isn't that much more powerful then a normal nuclear reactor

A hyperdrive actually opens a hole in space, maintains a connection inside of subspace then opens another hole to return to the vacuum, this could easily require more power than warping space enough to allow a craft to ride inbetween regions of space to get to a destination faster than rocket propulsion.

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

We did - but we had 5000 years of practical, useful, hands-on knowledge to play with. There's very little of that amongst the crew of the Destiny, except by accident. How do you makes screws? How hot do bricks/tiles need to be baked at? And so on. I reckon it would take three or four tries before a reasonably working windmill were made. And then, what sort - grinding corn or powering "machinery"?

All very good points, there's a lot of basic to just learn through trial and error.
In my post I may have made it seem like it's easy stuff, but there's a lot that goes into making even the basic stuff we take for granted.

If I can green you I will.

As an add to this please check wikipedia, a greek engineer was the first person to make a windmill type structure, that was at the beginning of the 1st millenia.

[slimjim]

The first windmill or windwheels were made in the 1st century AD, it's taken since then to get to the level we have, they'd need to make the tools to make such large projects a reality before they can even think of making a windmill, homes and food sources would be a priority first, learning about their environment would take longer to achieve, so it could be a few years before they make there first windmills, then they'll need more for larger populations.
It could have taken the Novans time (as in years) to build their first basic water powered stuff, they'd only have small numbers to do things first, this alone makes their level of development plausible.
You're not really proving your point here.

ok I admit I got wrong how old windmills where, but "The first windmill or windwheels were made in the 1st century AD, it's taken since then to get to the level we have" it's not like the last 2000 years have been continual advancement, the scientific revaluation and the renaissance only happened a few hundred years ago, before that things moved rather more slowly but on novus they new about the importance of scientific advancement from the get go
"homes and food sources would be a priority first, learning about their environment would take longer to achieve, so it could be a few years before they make there first windmills, then they'll need more for larger populations.
It could have taken the Novans time (as in years) to build their first basic water powered stuff, they'd only have small numbers to do things first, this alone makes their level of development plausible" are you honestly telling me all that would take more then several hundred years? becuse thats what it would have to be at least for this explanation to make sense

What? A deliberate attempt at a colony?
A colony is a settlement of people away from their main town or whatever, it's that simple, yes it wasn't like they'd built large buildings, but tents are still fit for the purpose of living offworld depending on the native lifeforms and whether they're hostile to our kind.

either way it's no representative of a typical novus colony

If there were skyscrapers there would be more rubble, piled higher than what we see there, again not proving your point here.

the drones completely destroy everything

No I never suggested it would happen that way, the fact is we don't know the details of the history, in order to just survive they'd need to make adequate housing, learn what the environment has to offer.
All of that could take many decades.
They'd have to grow in numbers and that would take time.
TBH no one here can say exactly how long it would take to go from nothing to what we have today, yes it would be sped up if the majority of knowledge is there, but not knowing where every material needed is it's gonna take an unknown amount of time to develop to our current level.

"All of that could take many decades" they had 2000 years

, but you'd still have people from whatever side living in a different geographical region, regions of a certain side's land could be less catered for than in others, you can't prove otherwise, I'm just saying it's possible and since we weren't told either way no one can rule it out.

"but you'd still have people from whatever side living in a different geographical region, regions of a certain side's land could be less catered for than in others" but the circumstances would not very as much as with different countries, how much does the technological level honestly vary across the united states?

;13108207I'm not missing anything, I'm saying what we see as their current level of technology isn't implausible, because what we see is what they've got.

"because what we see is what they've got" and I'm saying they should have more, how can a fictional setting prove anything?

If he's just theorize based on his understanding of physics then he could be wrong, the only way to know for sure is to run experiments that actually distort space, unless someone's done that any numbers are just guess work.

A hyperdrive actually opens a hole in space, maintains a connection inside of subspace then opens another hole to return to the vacuum, this could easily require more power than warping space enough to allow a craft to ride inbetween regions of space to get to a destination faster than rocket propulsion.

the novuns know it requires a "naquadah generator which isn't that much more powerful then a normal nuclear reactor", we have no idea how much energy a Alcubierre Drive requires

[morrismike]

Scientists study the world as it is; engineers create the world that has never been. —Theodore von Kármán.
In Novus case these engineers have a leg up because they know the world that has been.


To put into better perspective. Say a chemist identifies some wonderful reaction that makes compound x. The chemist is only able to make a microgram of this a year using his own devices. The engineers starts with the chemist believes to be true, verifies it, and applies existing technology in order to produce tons of compound x a day. When is done it is likely to be produced in an entirely different matter and a bizzillion times the efficiency.

[morrismike]

All very good points, there's a lot of basic to just learn through trial and error.
In my post I may have made it seem like it's easy stuff, but there's a lot that goes into making even the basic stuff we take for granted.

If I can green you I will.

As an add to this please check wikipedia, a greek engineer was the first person to make a windmill type structure, that was at the beginning of the 1st millenia.

The Babylonians had S-Rotor windmills pumping water and grinding grain long before Christ (potentially before Judaism).

[morrismike]

1) years ago I saw a documentary where they mentioned that engine, on it a physicist said it would take something like the energy of a million suns to propel a ship 1CM at the speed of light using this engine
2) they can power a hyper drive engine with a naquadah generator which isn't that much more powerful then a normal nuclear reactor

Simply using brute force is not going to get a ship anywhere near C.

A mkI naq reactor is not anywhere near a normal nuclear reactor and steady state output would be a few MWelectric (an obscene amount of power but nowhere near a 1000MWe). The city on Ausuras with hyper efficient systems required dozens of ZPMs and the city of Chicago requires 8 nuclear reactors and a few other plants. You do the math.

[slimjim]

Simply using brute force is not going to get a ship anywhere near C.

A mkI naq reactor is not anywhere near a normal nuclear reactor and steady state output would be a few MWelectric (an obscene amount of power but nowhere near a 1000MWe). The city on Ausuras with hyper efficient systems required dozens of ZPMs and the city of Chicago requires 8 nuclear reactors and a few other plants. You do the math.

ZPMs aren't naquadah generators


"A mkI naq reactor is not anywhere near a normal nuclear reactor and steady state output would be a few MWelectric (an obscene amount of power but nowhere near a 1000MWe)" I'm sorry which are you saying is more power full?

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

ok I admit I got wrong how old windmills where, but "The first windmill or windwheels were made in the 1st century AD, it's taken since then to get to the level we have" it's not like the last 2000 years have been continual advancement, the scientific revaluation and the renaissance only happened a few hundred years ago, before that things moved rather more slowly but on novus they new about the importance of scientific advancement from the get go

There are other things besides windmills that they'll need.
Everything that came before the windmill would account for over a 100,000 years, that means development from nothing to everything we have to now.
The Novans basically match Earth and beat our planet for what appears to be every piece of tech, that's over 100,000 years of development crammed into 2000 years, with a bit of a head start with some knowledge from throughout that time period.

"homes and food sources would be a priority first, learning about their environment would take longer to achieve, so it could be a few years before they make there first windmills, then they'll need more for larger populations.
It could have taken the Novans time (as in years) to build their first basic water powered stuff, they'd only have small numbers to do things first, this alone makes their level of development plausible" are you honestly telling me all that would take more then several hundred years? becuse thats what it would have to be at least for this explanation to make sense

The Novans would have to do more than establish the basics, they'd need to work as a civilization, get along with each other.
Social problems can take centuries to deal with.
You act like the Novans would have done nothing but copy what they knew from the original colonists memories of things they may or may not know and maybe fill in the gaps.
They weren't robots, they were Human beings.
Nations have internal disagreements, planets have worldwide conflicts and disputes over many different things, yet the Novans still managed to improve upon our level of technology, even though they were originally a group of Humans that could barely get along, managing to survive and not nuke each other too pieces is a major accomplishment.

either way it's no representative of a typical novus colony

The Novans had one major city we saw, then we saw a world with warehouses and a few brick buildings with rubble in a number of places.
Then there were some colonists with tents, so we have a variety of different locations that the Novan people have been shown to live in, there isn't a typical type of colony for them.

the drones completely destroy everything

There were a load of buildings intact, with some rubble that was not large enough to be large sky scrapers blown to pieces.

"All of that could take many decades" they had 2000 years

I like the way you take that part of my post out of context.
The Novans had to squash over 100,000 of development of important technologies into 2000 years, they didn't just have to make housing and feed their people.
They also had disagreements in how they should live, two nations with different ideas on how they should develop.
Because of this they can't have just focused on tech development, that would be a portion of their history and not all of it.

"but you'd still have people from whatever side living in a different geographical region, regions of a certain side's land could be less catered for than in others" but the circumstances would not very as much as with different countries, how much does the technological level honestly vary across the united states?

That would depend on what state you were in, the US has many homeless people, people still starve and die of various illness, from diseases that can't be instantly be cured.

"because what we see is what they've got" and I'm saying they should have more, how can a fictional setting prove anything?

So you're saying that what we see on screen isn't the truth?
You can't dispute that what we see on screen isn't the truth, it is, it's a fact of the show.
SGU may be fictional, but what happens within the Stargate Universe is truth to that universe, you can't deny Canon.
I also have to remind you that we're talking about the development of a fictional group of humans, not reality, what we see on screen proves that the fictional people that started from nothing on Novus advanced further than us, with less time and a little of the total knowledge that our race has passed on to 50 people, along with maybe a bit of stuff learned from other older races.
The fact that from basically nothing they are more advanced than us with only 2000 years to get there, with no help aside from a little knowledge to give them a boost is amazing, the fact that they survived and didn't kill each other is amazing..

the novuns know it requires a "naquadah generator which isn't that much more powerful then a normal nuclear reactor", we have no idea how much energy a Alcubierre Drive requires

Some Novans alive around 2000 years before those that left the planet in the present day on their ships may have known about Naquda, but the knowledge of it's exact atomic composition probably wouldn't have been known to them and they'd have to explore planets and find a high enough grade of the stuff to create enough power to make a Hyperdrive or advanced tech work.
Since no one's mentioned that Naquada exists in the galaxy, even though the seed ships and Destiny can scan nearby planets.
The fact that creating a hyperspace window requires basically punching a whole through the vacume of space into another dimension, of another part of our universe, create a conduit inside that region of space and then punch another whole back into the regular vacume of space.
Warp only requires distorting the space infront of a craft and expanding the space behind the ship enough to move it from point a to point b, you're not breaking space or tearing a hole, then potentially having to repair it, Hyperdrive would require more energy because it has to tear a hole in space, maintain a conduit within subspace and then tear another hole back into the vacume, potentially having to repair space both going into subspace and exiting it.

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

Scientists study the world as it is; engineers create the world that has never been. —Theodore von Kármán.
In Novus case these engineers have a leg up because they know the world that has been.


To put into better perspective. Say a chemist identifies some wonderful reaction that makes compound x. The chemist is only able to make a microgram of this a year using his own devices. The engineers starts with the chemist believes to be true, verifies it, and applies existing technology in order to produce tons of compound x a day. When is done it is likely to be produced in an entirely different matter and a bizzillion times the efficiency.

The leg up allowed them to go from basically nothing to being decades more advanced than modern day real world Earth and possessing basically everything important to making the best stuff we have today even better than we can, all within 2000 years, amazing IMO.

The Babylonians had S-Rotor windmills pumping water and grinding grain long before Christ (potentially before Judaism).

I made the cardinal mistake, going by what wikipedia says, but still if the windmill existed long before the 1st century that means the Novans have crammed basically everything we've had from thousands of years before windmills were first built, beyond real world Earth level stuff in 2000 years, even though it would be hard to just survive in the beginning and they'd have disagreements over many things along the way, beliefs in many areas of the society, they still advanced further than modern day Earth, pretty amazing IMO, the fact they don't have shields, energy weapons and ftl tech is probably just around the corner for them and probably possible in the not too distant future if they can find or synthesize the correct materials to make it happen.

[slimjim]

There are other things besides windmills that they'll need.
Everything that came before the windmill would account for over a 100,000 years, that means development from nothing to everything we have to now.
The Novans basically match Earth and beat our planet for what appears to be every piece of tech, that's over 100,000 years of development crammed into 2000 years, with a bit of a head start with some knowledge from throughout that time period.

"with a bit of a head start with some knowledge from throughout that time period" they had a massive head start on the humans of 1000 years ago, those people didn't even have understand the importance of having different people do different jobs

The Novans would have to do more than establish the basics, they'd need to work as a civilization, get along with each other.
Social problems can take centuries to deal with.
You act like the Novans would have done nothing but copy what they knew from the original colonists memories of things they may or may not know and maybe fill in the gaps.
They weren't robots, they were Human beings.
Nations have internal disagreements, planets have worldwide conflicts and disputes over many different things, yet the Novans still managed to improve upon our level of technology, even though they were originally a group of Humans that could barely get along, managing to survive and not nuke each other too pieces is a major accomplishment.

"You act like the Novans would have done nothing but copy what they knew from the original colonists memories of things they may or may not know and maybe fill in the gaps.
They weren't robots, they were Human beings" why would they choose trying to create things from scratch over trying to work towards goals they knew are achievable

"The Novans would have to do more than establish the basics, they'd need to work as a civilization, get along with each other.
Social problems can take centuries to deal with" they where do fine at the end of the episode

The Novans had one major city we saw, then we saw a world with warehouses and a few brick buildings with rubble in a number of places.
Then there were some colonists with tents, so we have a variety of different locations that the Novan people have been shown to live in, there isn't a typical type of colony for them.

we can't say that because we've only seen one (since novus it's self also doesn't count)

There were a load of buildings intact, with some rubble that was not large enough to be large sky scrapers blown to pieces.

the drones deliberately left those buildings alone because they where so low tech

I like the way you take that part of my post out of context.
The Novans had to squash over 100,000 of development of important technologies into 2000 years, they didn't just have to make housing and feed their people.
They also had disagreements in how they should live, two nations with different ideas on how they should develop.
Because of this they can't have just focused on tech development, that would be a portion of their history and not all of it.

"The Novans had to squash over 100,000 of development of important technologies into 2000 years" no they didn't
"They also had disagreements in how they should live, two nations with different ideas on how they should develop.
Because of this they can't have just focused on tech development" why would how the country next door wants the develop effect me?

That would depend on what state you were in, the US has many homeless people, people still starve and die of various illness, from diseases that can't be instantly be cured.

but still not nearly as many as in the third world

So you're saying that what we see on screen isn't the truth?
You can't dispute that what we see on screen isn't the truth, it is, it's a fact of the show.
SGU may be fictional, but what happens within the Stargate Universe is truth to that universe, you can't deny Canon.
I also have to remind you that we're talking about the development of a fictional group of humans, not reality, what we see on screen proves that the fictional people that started from nothing on Novus advanced further than us, with less time and a little of the total knowledge that our race has passed on to 50 people, along with maybe a bit of stuff learned from other older races.
The fact that from basically nothing they are more advanced than us with only 2000 years to get there, with no help aside from a little knowledge to give them a boost is amazing, the fact that they survived and didn't kill each other is amazing..

I acknowledge what's on screen I'm saying it doesn't make sense, and shouldn't be. There is a difference between stuff like made up technology and things that are just illogical

Some Novans alive around 2000 years before those that left the planet in the present day on their ships may have known about Naquda, but the knowledge of it's exact atomic composition probably wouldn't have been known to them and they'd have to explore planets and find a high enough grade of the stuff to create enough power to make a Hyperdrive or advanced tech work.
Since no one's mentioned that Naquada exists in the galaxy, even though the seed ships and Destiny can scan nearby planets.
The fact that creating a hyperspace window requires basically punching a whole through the vacume of space into another dimension, of another part of our universe, create a conduit inside that region of space and then punch another whole back into the regular vacume of space.
Warp only requires distorting the space infront of a craft and expanding the space behind the ship enough to move it from point a to point b, you're not breaking space or tearing a hole, then potentially having to repair it, Hyperdrive would require more energy because it has to tear a hole in space, maintain a conduit within subspace and then tear another hole back into the vacume, potentially having to repair space both going into subspace and exiting it.

1) they'd know the "exact atomic composition" because one of the scientists would have written it down or described it to a keno
2)"Since no one's mentioned that Naquada exists in the galaxy" why would they mention it, it's not like they've got a generator on Destiny, what good would it do them
2)"Warp only requires distorting the space infront of a craft and expanding the space behind the ship enough to move it from point a to point b, you're not breaking space or tearing a hole, then potentially having to repair it, Hyperdrive would require more energy because it has to tear a hole in space, maintain a conduit within subspace and then tear another hole back into the vacume, potentially having to repair space both going into subspace and exiting it" we don't know how a Hyperdrive works, but regardless we do know how much power it needs and it's less then that

[thekillman]

they had a massive head start on the humans of 1000 years ago, those people didn't even have understand the importance of having different people do different jobs

this assumes perfect retaining, memorizing and transferring knowledge. given that an engineer is more likely to be engineering than teaching, it would assume that the Destiny crew recorded every damn bit.



although still a massive task, the Descendants would be backtracing the steps to modern science. simply knowing that the atom can be split can do a whole lot to the Novus research of nuclear physics. knowing that disease is caused by virusses and microbia, is a massive step towards good healthcare. yet both are relatively recent discoveries, on 2000 years of science.

simply knowing the path would make it a lot easier. the knowledge to properly forge iron does not exist that long. in medieval times they made it hot and hammered on it untill it kind of was in shape. today it is completely molten, processed, and contents can be controlled to hundredths of percents.

what most people call steel is more accurately called "pure iron". what we call iron is actually a mix of iron carbide, iron and carbon.


i digress. anyway, the simple knowledge of the path will make the process of finding and paving it much easier. it certainly would not have been medieval-style, with crap on the streets and washing in your drinking water. kind of what they do in the poor regions of India. it would not have been very modern, initially, but it would be made with modern knowledge




anyway, as to the OP question: since in real life the only space craft we have are launched by making it sit on a really large pile of fuel, and in Novus the ship took off stargate-style, i'd say Novus is a hellofalot more advanced than modern earth.

[morrismike]

The novans are making steel and concrete as soon as they have the manpower for kils and forges. Cast Iron is smelted iron ore with an overburden of carbon. There are some grades of iron (ductile iron) that are equivelant to low carbon steel (wcb cast). Carbon (coke) is added to reduce the ore and the downside of that is a burden (beyond ability to go into solution) of carbon left in the steel. Burning the excess carbon out of the melt is what makes steel. They would need to get the carbon below 0.3% to be able to weld it without special processes. My guess is once everyone is housed and has food in their belly they will scout out sources of key materials (limestone, sulfur, saltpeter, iron ore, copper ore, tin ore, clay for brick, etc.) to pave the way for future generations. Generation one will be building with brick, morter, and wood and using bronze tools. Generation two will be building with iron tools and a little bit of concrete. By generation four we're talking reinforced concrete and structural steel.

I would guess they'd simply go with bronze and this is adequate for most of what they'd need to do. Once the bronze making is going well then they'd work on making cast iron. After that they need steel. If their need is small there are simple superalloys they can make (17-4 ph - for the Ayn Rand fans that would be Rearden Metal). The aluminum, titanium and 300 series stainless steels won't be needed for a while.

For building they would make bricks and everything would be brick and morter (and wood) until they figure out how to make steel rebar and remesh. The concrete plants will be running long before they perfect steel. They would be building with steel and concrete withing 100 years.

I think a lot of people are missing is that very few in current society would be useful, but properly trained and focused, the Novans would be like army ants.

[Quizziard]

All of our assumptions, such as the one above, depend on there being the appropriate raw materials on the planet.

And that at least one of the crew has sufficient skills/knowledge to identify them.