Faster hyperdrives asgard/ancient

[Entreri]

Newest ship, but exact same design as the Deadlus and Odyssey.

How are Earthlings supposed to make the shields any better? These are advanced Asgard shields. Unless Earth tech is suddenly more advanced than Asgard tech, it ain't going to happen.

Even Rodney couldn't figure out how to make the shields more powerful on the Daedlus, until he got MUCH smarter (Tao of Rodney episode). But after he became plain old Rodney, he could not figure out any of those inventions.


So we need somebody so much smarter than Rodney, then Apollo shields more powerful, even then something would have likely been mentioned.

[!!??]

The asgard didnt make our sheilds they only helped us make some we advanced some ancient tech like merlins device that transports you to another dimension.Sam made that work on a large scale. Sheilds may be easy compared to that. The korelev may not even have had asgard enhanced sheilds it could of had the same sheilds as prometheus.

[randy23]

The ancient use most of their tech to research in human evolution and ascencion. You could see this in "the game" and "tao of rodney". If the ancients chose to i think they could make very powerful weapons. The ancients also made the dakara superweapon which destroyed the replicators and some of the ori followers.

Off note, we don't know for certain when the Ancients began their work on ascension. It could've been anytime [during] their war with the Wraith. How long did the conflict last between the Ancients and Wraith? Wasn't it over 100 years? Please somebody correct me if I'm wrong. I would think, they would have sufficient time in creating weapons. It was intended to protect their very survival as a race - so, I would think they would want the most powerful, which was apparently the drones. Now, look at the weapons the Asguard utilized when they battled the Replicators in "New Order" and juxtapose those with the most recent updates found on Odyssey. Big difference in such a short amount of time. Right? And as Entreri commented, the drones in relation in fighting the Ori ships only "drove it out" instead of destroying it like the Odyssey did with a couple of shots, which tells how far the Asguard had come technologically.

Adding, the performance of the shields and weapons on the Odyssey have a set max when they were intially designed by the Asguard; therefore, the Asguard must have something similar to a ZPM.

[randy23]

The asgard didnt make our sheilds they only helped us make some we advanced some ancient tech like merlins device that transports you to another dimension.Sam made that work on a large scale. Sheilds may be easy compared to that. The korelev may not even have had asgard enhanced sheilds it could of had the same sheilds as prometheus.

I think they did. Look at the episode "Disclosure." Thor came to Earth to give thanks to SG1 by giving Prometheus Asguard shield and weapons (although, the weapons seemed to have been a typo in the script, as writers changed their minds about Earth having them up until recently).

[IcyNeko]

Uhh yeah. The Asgard gave us shield technology, and eventually, when the 304s were in designed, they helped us re-design the shield system to be integrated into the design of the 304 (and therefore be better suited for the 304's power core).

So yeah, keep talking !!??. As long as the popcorn keeps coming, I'll keep finding you amusing.

[turbo1889]

turbo1889, I'm a bit confused with your claim, which I go against canon. . . .

I may have missunderstood you -- This is what I thought you were saying:

Ancient hyperdrive < ? > Asguard hyperdrive

This is what cannon shows to be the case (from the "Arora" episode):

~Ancient Intragalactic (or some prefer intersteller) hyperdrive < Asguard hyperdrive

~Ancient Intergalactic hyperdrive < ? > Asguard Hyperdrive

The Difference between these two statements is that one leaves the question completly open ended and the other at least answers it half way.






You may have also missunderstood me in my original post as well. I clearly stated that it is my personal speculation that the Ancient Intergalactic hyperdrive is slower then the Asguard hyperdrive but is stronger. As in the difference between a sports car and a 18-wheeler tractor trailer. Sure the sports car is faster by itself, but strap a trailer full of concrete block to the back of both and the 18-wheeler is going to win that race.

The fact that this load pulling analogy actually follows through for the Asguard hyperdrive is made clear in "Unnatural Selection" when an Asguard Oniell class warship was significantly slowed down in hyperspace while towing the Promethius which is a small load (at least compared to the size of the towing ship an Oniell class).

[Jimbo-DR]

Apollo got hit by the Asuran satellite weapon in First Strike. Apollo brushed it off. Korvolv hit by 1 Ori beam weapon got crippled completely, lost 50% shields.

Apollo did NOT brush it off. In fact Apollo's commander was loth to take Apollo out at all after that encounter, stating that its shields were heavily damaged from only a fraction of a second's worth of impact.

Ori ship shields withstood Hatak class firepower without taking any damage, there was probably 12 Hatak ships there. Even the O'Neill class Asgard ship did not damage against the Ori ships.

Pure speculation. We don't know the extent of the damage to the Ori ships from the Camelot battle, and we don't know whether or not the O'neill class managed to inflict significant damage. There was only 1 O'Neill present and it seemed to spread its attack among the Ori ships, so its quite possible that the O'Neill is still comparable. We can only speculate at this point.

Now you are implying that the Odyssey lasers are only effective against Ori ships. Get serious, those lasers will cut through any shields like a hot knife through butter.

You don't know that. While I agree with you, you're still only speculating.

The Ancients should have built lasers into their ships.

We don't know whether or not they did. We've never seen a fully powered Aurora class warship, and there is evidence of even stronger ship classes that we've never seen. WE DO have the screen evidence from the Asuran episode, where Niam showed Weir the devastation from years ago. There was strong evidence in that episode for some sort energy weapons in that episode. Where did you get "laser" from, anyway?

Odyssey lasers: One shot will destroy Hatak class ship. 1 shot, aimed properly will destroy a Hive ship.

Again, speculation. Until we see it happen on screen we can only speculate. However, evidence to the contrary:
We saw the energy weapons from Odyssey penetrate the shields, and then hulls, of the Ori ships with relative ease, and even pass through in a similar way that the Ancient Satellite weapon did to the Wraith Hive. However, to suggest that those weapons are of similar power seems silly. The Ancient satellite was built to be the size of a Ha'tak class vessel, fire a charged shot that literally cut a Hive in half. We know that Wraith Hives are designed with particularly thick and protective hulls to make up for their lack of force shields. We have no evidence to suggest they are anything remotely like the Ori.

As for the 10000 year old Aurora, there was no indication that the shields were not fully powered, only that they could not bring weapons and shields operational concurrently.

Yes, there was. They didn't have enough power on that ship to power both shields and weapons simultaneously. That right there suggests a HUGE lack of power. Any type of warship goes into a fight with MORE than enough power to use every available weapon and defense system with ample backup power. The fact that they couldn't power both at once says that the Orion was severly damaged and severly drained of power. And even with only partly powered shields, the Orion still held off the Wraith for a significant amount of time. I could tell you why the Aurora class is superior, and use plenty of comparisons that actually do make sense, but I don't have the time to do that right now.

In the other universe, a Ori ship was driven out, probably took 100s of drones, no indication of destroying a Ori ship. I would think the destruction of an Ori ship would have pronounced and celebrated: Definitely they would have told Carter this.

Not true. Landry specifically said, "fought off". This can imply a whole slew of different outcomes. The one thing every single one of those outcomes have in common is this: Drones are effective against Ori ships. Regardless of how many drones were required to fight it off, it WAS fought off, and keep something else in mind. Those ships are designed for combat. The first thing the ori would have done was target the Antartic facility and destroy it. The only reason they wouldn't do this is if they didn't have time. It would suggest that the ship was in danger of being destroyed and an immediate retreat was necessary. Or it could suggest that the ship WAS destroyed. Landry wasn't quite specific enough for us to be sure, but he did give enough information to come to those conclusions.

Auror class ship, season 3, episode one: Took fire from 1 Hive ship, it's shields were getting drilled badly, taking much damage. So, they used drones, destroyed 1 Hive ships, but in order to bring weapons on line, they had to disable shields. So the ship was destroyed.

From that encounter: Aurora equal to at the very best 3 Hive ships, if not only 2. Aurora class shields are no more powerful the Daedlus shields, probably somewhat less.

How do you take so little evidence and come to such ridiculous conclusions? The Aurora class ship is a ship designed by the ANCIENTS. Every bit of evidence throughout Stargate as a series has pointed to the Ancients as being the most advanced race around. Our first real battlecruiser is not going to outdue one of their advanced warships. But there is plenty real evidence to support that beyond my analysis. The Orion took a pounding from 2 Hive ships without any reported shield strength reduction whatsoever. In fact, those shields gave no indication that they were even noticing the multi megaton impacts slicing into them multiple times a second. They dispersed every shot with relative ease, at least, that was what was depicted on screen. In fact, even without the shields active, the Orion took a REMARKABLE beating from the Hive ships before it was destroyed. Watch the episode again. Each shot from the Hives make small explosions on the hull of the Orion, but nothing more. It takes literally hundreds of those shots to finally collapse the hull and cause the explosion. Compare this to the Daedalus, which takes 2 shots and ends up with 2 huge gaping holes in the hull.

Don't be surprised if the Odyssey is equal to at least 6, if not 12 Hives. Why? 2 Hive ships firing on Daedlus, it took over 1 full minute for the shields to drain over 80% (final episode of season 2). New Odyssey shields=6 time more powerful than old (numbers can be calculated using Unending).

Those numbers are flinky at best. The Odyssey fitted with Unending upgrades cannot really be calculated the way your saying. Most of the ori weapon impacts did close to 25% of the total shield strength. Whereas some did closer to 12% of the total shield strength. There was also the big old planet which exploded rather forcefully right behind Odyssey, and on screen was shown to have done big damage to the Odyssey's shields. What your trying to conclude is that the upgraded Odyssey can take on 12 Hives at once. That may very well be true. However that doesn't mean that it could sit still and simply trade shots and still win.

Odyssey= about 4 Aurora class ships.

Thats ridiculous. The Aurora class ship carries the most devastating weapon ever seen in Stargate. The drone has NEVER been seen to be ineffective, save for ONE time where it MAY have been faltered. And who faltered it? Why, the makeshift shield on a PUDDLE JUMPER. Thats right, the 12 man puddle jumper MAY have the capability to fight off a drone, whereas the best flagships of the Goa'uld, Wraith, and Ori cannot. But your going to tell me that the Odyssey can fight off 4 Ancient Battleships at once? Give me a break. Your pulling those numbers out of nowhere to make yourself sound smart, and you should do some real analysis before you say things like that.

[Tain]

This is all rather silly speculation, as we have never seen a fully operational Ancient... well anything in combat. The closest was the Antarctic outpost, and it was millions of years old. Unfortunately, with the loss of the Tria, we have lost our best chance at seeing what Ancient technology is really capable of.

[sparkygate]

No other earth ship shields, except the Odyssey's were upgraded since the Korvolov got destroyed.

Asgard did not share their best stuff until Unending.

Latest Asgard tech in the Odyssey is far superior to the Ancient ship tech, as I explained above why that is so. You can of course wait till season 4 for confirmation.

What do you mean the Asgard tech in the Odyssey is far superior to the ancient ship tech?? DUDE have you seen atlantis?? (btw atlantis is also consider to be a city/ship i think)... you know the ancients were way older than the asgard... that gives them plenty of time to develop and improve their own technology on ships and etc...

The asgard have ONLY got this advance to the a point in the past 10,000 years i mean look at the beliskner class. If that ship was to go head on against the Orion... mind you the Orion was built 10,000 years ago with the beliskner was what built like a few years ago... OF COURSE the Orion would totally obliterate the Beliskner... also you remember the recent asgard mothership (o'neill class) that ship fought against one of the ori mothership and look it didnt even put a dent in it.

btw i find this thread very amusing because this is so not on the topic of the faster gyperdrives asgard/ ancient

[Jimbo-DR]

This is all rather silly speculation, as we have never seen a fully operational Ancient... well anything in combat. The closest was the Antarctic outpost, and it was millions of years old. Unfortunately, with the loss of the Tria, we have lost our best chance at seeing what Ancient technology is really capable of.

It is speculation, but we can speculate based on evidence. And we didn't lose the Tria. The Tria is(presumably) floating in the massive void between Pegasus and the Milky Way. HOPEFULLY it won't fall into one of the trillions of plot holes just waiting to suck it down.

[IcyNeko]

yeah, how did you guys go from Hyperdrives to entertaining Entreni's erratic and mostly incorrect rememberings of how stargate episodes went? back on topic please.

[Tain]

It is speculation, but we can speculate based on evidence. And we didn't lose the Tria. The Tria is(presumably) floating in the massive void between Pegasus and the Milky Way. HOPEFULLY it won't fall into one of the trillions of plot holes just waiting to suck it down.

I don't think its safe to assume they left the Tria anywhere. I am of the opinion it was towed back when the Ancients first returned to Atlantis, and was probably being cannabalized by the Ancients to get the Atlantis systems back online. In all likely hood it was destroyed in orbit when the Asurans arrived.

[loujob]

Ancients were millions and millions of years ahead of us as a scientific and technologically driven race. That's why they split from the Ori. The asgard were only 10,000 or so yrs ahead of us as a technologically driven civilization. Do the math. The ancients already had a near infinite understanding of many of the things in this universe compared to us. The asguard were only capable of scratching the surface of searching through let alone understanding the repository of ancient knowledge. Yea, I'm pretty positive ancient is greater than asgard in almost every way, including intergalactic travel.

Yea, and there is no place indicating that the lasers and new shielding didn't come from what little the asgard learned from the repository of knowledge, which is a likely assumption. They battled the replicators for centuries, jack containing the repository created a weapon that could completely destroy them. The life creation machine in addition to the stargate network was capable of destroying them all at once

Additionally, atlantis was stated as being the most advanced piece of technology the ancients had 10,000 years ago. Wasn't they're an episode during the first season of atlantis where it shows one of their city ships traveling from one galaxy to another in almost no time(Of course, it was some representation of a few thousand to millions of years ago). I'm pretty sure its season 1 of atlantis because I just got done watching every episode of sg1 last week and I have all of season 2 and 3 of atlantis saved on my computer. I remember watching it a while ago. If I'm remembering correctly, that episode should put an end to this thread once and for all.

[2ndgenerationalteran]

Acutally Atlantis is much older, it left Earth around 10-5 million years ago, we really dont know when it was built but still, the ancients have a much better understanding than the asgard did. Im pretty sure the asgard learned most of what they know about hyperdrive engine construction from the ancients. We've never seen an ancient intergalactic hyperdrive funtioning at 100%. Atlantis only hand 1 ZPM in First Strike, but the Asuran city traveled pretty fast. The way Caldwell told Lorne the Orion needed to make that jump implied that the hyperdrive for the orion was out of commision when they left in no mans land (they could probably make the hyperspace field around it so it could get "towed". There's nothing sufficient to compare either too, pretty much all ancient technology hasnt been shown at its fullest potential, we only find beaten up stuff of theirs.

[randy23]

Im pretty sure the asgard learned most of what they know about hyperdrive engine construction from the ancients.

Based on what? You mean the episode "Revelations" where the Asguard, Heimdall, said they once used suspended animation to travel? That doesn't prove much. A lot happens in 30,000 years.

Yea, and there is no place indicating that the lasers and new shielding didn't come from what little the asgard learned from the repository of knowledge, which is a likely assumption.

Likewise, there is no evidence to suggest the Asguard used the Ancient repository to construct the lasers and shileds found on Odyssey. As you commented earlier "The asguard were only capable of scratching the surface." So, what the Asguard could comprehend from "parts" of the repository they likely modified, making it uniquely their own. So, how were they able to create such powerful weapons and shields like Odyssey's? I think it's pretty simple: hard work and thousands of years worth of experience with the technology. Why was Jack held with such high regard by the Asguard council? Answer: he fully UNDERSTOOD and was able to utilize the contents of the Ancient repository when it basically rewrote his mind, causing it to function differently. This just shows how far the Asguard had progressed technologically. They remind me of worker bees, seemingly always in perpetual motion and always trying to improve. So to downplay their achievements by saying [that] they simply copied from another race is incorrect.

Yea, I'm pretty positive ancient is greater than asgard in almost every way, including intergalactic travel.

In "Aurora", Mckay never implied the Ancient's version of a hyperdrive was somehow superior to the Asguard's; on the contrary, he puts them on equal terms in "efficiency."