Wraith Defenders Club

[kirmit]

Have to say before Season 3 I was a wraith hater, didn't like them at all. However this season especially 'common ground' has given me a new respect for the wraith and I'd rather they weren't replaced, shown more about them instead. So with that I'd join this club aswell as I do see some of their actions as just, survival of the fittest. Though between the ori and wraith I'd still always choose the ori .

[DetriusXii]

I think it's time we all to see the truth:

- The Wraith are intelligent creatures. With sence of humour.

- They have honor and in most of the cases they keep their word.

- Their origin is human.

- Yes, they feed upon humans but did they have any choice to survive?

- They deserve to live.

I know that most of the members here are fans of killing the Wraith but people think about it - don't we eat cows??? Are we monsters?

I'm going to contest point number 5. I don't think human forces should offer the Wraith any respect to life. We coral rival predator species and since the Wraith view us as prey, we have every right to defend ourselves even if it means committing genocide on their entire race. Genocide isn't wrong against a threat that can't be reasoned against and we can't reason against the Wraith's hunger abilities. They have no more right to life than humans do and if the Wraith aren't willing to respect human lives, then we have every right to use the Wraith retrovirus on them. And if we switch to person morality, where need to respect the Wraith because they're sentient, then the converse holds and the Wraith need to respect human sentients, even if that means they have to commit suicide. The only human food option that the Wraith could possibly have is cloning vegetative humans but the writers aren't willing to bring these aspects to the show as the Wraith's purpose would be killed. We've seen a vegetative Asgard so it's completely possible.

[female Wraith]

I'm going to contest point number 5. I don't think human forces should offer the Wraith any respect to life. We coral rival predator species and since the Wraith view us as prey, we have every right to defend ourselves even if it means committing genocide on their entire race. Genocide isn't wrong against a threat that can't be reasoned against and we can't reason against the Wraith's hunger abilities. They have no more right to life than humans do and if the Wraith aren't willing to respect human lives, then we have every right to use the Wraith retrovirus on them. And if we switch to person morality, where need to respect the Wraith because they're sentient, then the converse holds and the Wraith need to respect human sentients, even if that means they have to commit suicide. The only human food option that the Wraith could possibly have is cloning vegetative humans but the writers aren't willing to bring these aspects to the show as the Wraith's purpose would be killed. We've seen a vegetative Asgard so it's completely possible.

I don't think if some species are treat to us we have to commit genocide. If you look back of human history we people often kill each other. Im WWII whole races was at war but none of them genocide the enemy. If we begin to kill each enemy with what are we better than the species we are fighting against? You said that the Wraith don't respect human lives but do we have any respec to their lives? The retro virus is not a respect, it's genetic manipulation over their DNA. If you are a human would you want to be an ape?
The Wraith do have some respect to humans affter all - they have worshippers and if we look carefully in the words of the Wraith in Common ground we shall see that their worshippers received The Gift of Life - some kind of eternal life. In Condemned the Wraith played a social function - to eliminate the criminals. They could sucked the life from everybody in Alesia but they didn't. If they begin to feed upon human clones that will means industrial farming. Then they will no longer need the humans in their natural environment and the whole thing will be a genocide. And at last - if they feed upon clones are they respecting human lives more?

[PG15]

I don't think if some species are treat to us we have to commit genocide. If you look back of human history we people often kill each other. Im WWII whole races was at war but none of them genocide the enemy.

Um...the Holocaust?

In Condemned the Wraith played a social function - to eliminate the criminals. They could sucked the life from everybody in Alesia but they didn't.

Not until the end of the episode.

Anyway, I'm with you that the Wraith aren't evil and are just doing what they need to survive. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean that humans and the Wraith and coexist indefinately. If we want to live, we have to destroy them because we know they'll kill us if they get their hands on us (hehe...).

It's strange, really; the Wraith will never commit genocide on the humans. How's that food for thought (again, hehe...)?

[female Wraith]

yes i like that theory maybe she was to be the new queen and the old queen would see this as compition and not wanting her spot taken over she would order her trustworthy wraith to go get rid of her , so the ones who protected Elia took her away til she is old enough to takeover the hive, but they got shot down by there own kind and crashed into a planet her protecters were killed and there was only one left and its kinda like starwars with luke and ben kenobi he had to wait til she was old enough to take her back and train her ect but when atlantis crew came they ruined the plan

(just my version of what could have happened)

Actually in my theory Elia was a newborn queen in a new hive. I suspect that if one Queen have a daughter she makes a new hive for her. They don't kill each other. May be the new hive was attacked by an enemy hive and to prevent capture Elia and her followers escaped. And the rest we know. I only wonder why the other Wraith was at a distance of Elia? If he was in her escort he has to keep her safe...

Have to say before Season 3 I was a wraith hater, didn't like them at all. However this season especially 'common ground' has given me a new respect for the wraith and I'd rather they weren't replaced, shown more about them instead. So with that I'd join this club aswell as I do see some of their actions as just, survival of the fittest. Though between the ori and wraith I'd still always choose the ori .

Welome to the club I also want the Wraith to remain the main enemy and may be some day ally in SGA.

[female Wraith]

Um...the Holocaust?



Not until the end of the episode.

Anyway, I'm with you that the Wraith aren't evil and are just doing what they need to survive. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean that humans and the Wraith and coexist indefinately. If we want to live, we have to destroy them because we know they'll kill us if they get their hands on us (hehe...).

It's strange, really; the Wraith will never commit genocide on the humans. How's that food for thought (again, hehe...)?

There are survivors even after the events of WWII. In Condemned we all know WHY in the end the Wraith changed their social function, don't we?

Actually if they get their hands on us we won't be all killed. What abot the next feeding??

[PG15]

There are only survivors because the Germans didn't get the time they needed to wipe out all of the "enemy".

I wouldn't call what they did respect, more like tolerance. The lowly humans were doing something that benefitted them AND gave them sustenance; what Wraith would say no to that?

[female Wraith]

There are only survivors because the Germans didn't get the time they needed to wipe out all of the "enemy".

I wouldn't call what they did respect, more like tolerance. The lowly humans were doing something that benefitted them AND gave them sustenance; what Wraith would say no to that?

I dont' want to speculate about the facts for the Holocast. There many unelucidate things about the WWII. And here is not the place to clear them up.

Yes, the Wraiths NEED to feed. That's only natural. But they do their best - or at least some of them do it - to respect/tolerate/take care for their humans. When we eat animals don't we also tolerate some of them like pets and kill for sustance others??? Are we different?

[Ouroboros]

Actually if you think about it Wraith and humans do co-exist right now in Pegasus. They co-exist in the same way Lions and Zebras co-exist.

The reason why everyone gets so worked up is because the top of the foodchain no longer stops with humanity.

From a purely objective standpoint however the Wraith make a more genuine effort toward co-existance than the humans do. They take long hibernation cycles during which they leave their human populations alone and even allow them to develop a fairly high level of technology in some cases. A human in pegasus is entirely likely to live his/her full lifespan between Wraith cullings without ever even seeing a Wraith. This is something the Wraith, not the humans, make possible. As I've pointed out there's nothing stopping them from taking a more active approach to extracting more effcient numbers from the humans. They could keep them in huge pens and artificially inseminate them just for a start. Instead they sleep for hundreds of years to allow the slow human reproductive cycle to replenish itself naturally.

The humans of SGA on the other hand (who haven't even lived under Wraith dominion) want to kill every last Wraith in pegasus and its dog. They haven't even tried to do it another way and even when Wraith individuals seem helpful or potential allies they still jump right back to their "gotta kill 'em all" behaviour.

I'm not saying that humanity should conceed to being a Wraith foodsource. I'm just pointing out that in terms of track records the Wraith are not the species less inclined toward a balanced co-existence. humanity didn't even explore the option of a potentially balanced co-existence before leaping to genocide as the only solution.

[female Wraith]

Actually if you think about it Wraith and humans do co-exist right now in Pegasus. They co-exist in the same way Lions and Zebras co-exist.

The reason why everyone gets so worked up is because the top of the foodchain no longer stops with humanity.

From a purely objective standpoint however the Wraith make a more genuine effort toward co-existance than the humans do. They take long hibernation cycles during which they leave their human populations alone and even allow them to develop a fairly high level of technology in some cases. A human in pegasus is entirely likely to live his/her full lifespan between Wraith cullings without ever even seeing a Wraith. This is something the Wraith, not the humans, make possible. As I've pointed out there's nothing stopping them from taking a more active approach to extracting more effcient numbers from the humans. They could keep them in huge pens and artificially inseminate them just for a start. Instead they sleep for hundreds of years to allow the slow human reproductive cycle to replenish itself naturally.

The humans of SGA on the other hand (who haven't even lived under Wraith dominion) want to kill every last Wraith in pegasus and its dog. They haven't even tried to do it another way and even when Wraith individuals seem helpful or potential allies they still jump right back to their "gotta kill 'em all" behaviour.

I'm not saying that humanity should conceed to being a Wraith foodsource. I'm just pointing out that in terms of track records the Wraith are not the species less inclined toward a balanced co-existence. humanity didn't even explore the option of a potentially balanced co-existence before leaping to genocide as the only solution.

You are reading my mind))) I wonder if humans were on the top of the food chain - if humans sucked the life out of other creatures in Pegasus...how will react the SGA team? I don't think they will want a genocide or develope a retro virus. Double standarts.

They could find a way to co-exist with the Wraith. That's true. I was amazed when they tried the retro virus for the SECOND time on Michael. After he could be a very usefull ally and help them in many ways.

[Ouroboros]

You are reading my mind))) I wonder if humans were on the top of the food chain - if humans sucked the life out of other creatures in Pegasus...how will react the SGA team? I don't think they will want a genocide or develope a retro virus. Double standarts.

They could find a way to co-exist with the Wraith. That's true. I was amazed when they tried the retro virus for the SECOND time on Michael. After he could be a very usefull ally and help them in many ways.

That shocked me to, especially when contrasted with Irresistable.

Michael:Helps the team destroy a ship full of Wraith to save Earth, helps to rescue McKay and Ronon from said ship of Wraith, has previusly escaped from being turned into a human without harming anyone in the process. Is a Wraith.

Lucius:Uses drugs to rape a villiage of women for years, does the same thing to the Atlantis base and very nearly rapes Teyla, Weir and who knows how many other women. Gains intimate knowledge of not only the bases location but how numerous bits of it's technology work and how to personally use them. Is a human.

Which one do you think they released back into the galaxy more or less without negative consequences and which one do you think they tried to experiment on and later murder.

If you based your guess on fairness and logic, sorry you guessed wrong.

They punished Michael because "his race can't be trusted" (even after they save our asses) and let Lucius go because, well I can't even think of a reason why they would let Lucius go given what he'd done and what he knew. I'm sure if he was a Wraith they would have just straight up killed him no questions asked though.

[Wraith Scientist]

Not to mention how useful Michael or Ellia would have been ...

For starters, there's the telepathic network. They could sense Wraith in the vicinity, gain invaluable intelligence that would make any military commander drool. Effectively reading the mind of your enemy

Michael would have known tons about Wraith society and technology. The treasure trove of informtion that he would have been able to provide would have been a huge advantage. They could also have been able to fly hiveships and other captured ships.

Thirdly, they can provide an insight into Wraith biology close up. In a creature with those abilities there'd surely be a cure for aging in there somewhere. They could also examine their feeding mechanism to find a way to reactivate their human digestive system. Something surely highly valuable to the Wraith in a time of starvation.

They'd also be able to negotiate with other Wraith, providing more diplomatic leverage than a lowly human. Ellia might have been a queen, which provides even more leverage. You never know, she might even be able to order some of the soldier-Wraith around, or maybe just ones from her hive (ie. the one in the forest).

Spoiler:

If any member of the team got Wraith-sucked, they would be able to restore their life to them. Col Everett could be back on his feet in no time. Anyone that gets fed on could be restored to full health.

Compared to the sheer wealth of advantages they could bring to the team, feeding them seems trivial in comparison.

I could imagine the Genii doing something like this actually. They seemed much more competent, pragmatic and resourceful than the Atlantis team. In fact, the Genii are highly underused villains with loads of potential anyway. As for feeding, I'm sure they'd have no problem. They've been shown as willing to sacrifice themselves before. Ellia or Michael, or both, working with the Genii would make one hell of an awesome plot.

[Da Vikster the Ori]

GO WRAITH GO WRAITH GO WRAITH

IM IN!!!

[wraithlord]

i agree it would be a interesting plot
i wonder if we will see michael again near the end of season 3
i bet if he encounters the atlantis team he will be pretty mad at them that would be interesting to see

[female Wraith]

That shocked me to, especially when contrasted with Irresistable.

Michael:Helps the team destroy a ship full of Wraith to save Earth, helps to rescue McKay and Ronon from said ship of Wraith, has previusly escaped from being turned into a human without harming anyone in the process. Is a Wraith.

Lucius:Uses drugs to rape a villiage of women for years, does the same thing to the Atlantis base and very nearly rapes Teyla, Weir and who knows how many other women. Gains intimate knowledge of not only the bases location but how numerous bits of it's technology work and how to personally use them. Is a human.

Which one do you think they released back into the galaxy more or less without negative consequences and which one do you think they tried to experiment on and later murder.

If you based your guess on fairness and logic, sorry you guessed wrong.

They punished Michael because "his race can't be trusted" (even after they save our asses) and let Lucius go because, well I can't even think of a reason why they would let Lucius go given what he'd done and what he knew. I'm sure if he was a Wraith they would have just straight up killed him no questions asked though.

You are absolutely right As I said before double standarts. I liked Michael - he was cool as a human and as a Wraith. He had enough courage to rebel against his Queen and to help the Atlantis team. While Lucius....please the fans of Lucius to appologize me but he is a looser and a leech. The most logical thing was to be executed without any delay.

Not to mention how useful Michael or Ellia would have been ...

For starters, there's the telepathic network. They could sense Wraith in the vicinity, gain invaluable intelligence that would make any military commander drool. Effectively reading the mind of your enemy

Michael would have known tons about Wraith society and technology. The treasure trove of informtion that he would have been able to provide would have been a huge advantage. They could also have been able to fly hiveships and other captured ships.

Thirdly, they can provide an insight into Wraith biology close up. In a creature with those abilities there'd surely be a cure for aging in there somewhere. They could also examine their feeding mechanism to find a way to reactivate their human digestive system. Something surely highly valuable to the Wraith in a time of starvation.

They'd also be able to negotiate with other Wraith, providing more diplomatic leverage than a lowly human. Ellia might have been a queen, which provides even more leverage. You never know, she might even be able to order some of the soldier-Wraith around, or maybe just ones from her hive (ie. the one in the forest).

Spoiler:

If any member of the team got Wraith-sucked, they would be able to restore their life to them. Col Everett could be back on his feet in no time. Anyone that gets fed on could be restored to full health.

Compared to the sheer wealth of advantages they could bring to the team, feeding them seems trivial in comparison.

I could imagine the Genii doing something like this actually. They seemed much more competent, pragmatic and resourceful than the Atlantis team. In fact, the Genii are highly underused villains with loads of potential anyway. As for feeding, I'm sure they'd have no problem. They've been shown as willing to sacrifice themselves before. Ellia or Michael, or both, working with the Genii would make one hell of an awesome plot.

Yes. Michael and Elia could be very useful but the logic and clear mind are the last things you could find out in Atlantis. Actually it is really a miracle how they manage to survive !!! On the other hand may be and the Genii don't have the right logic because as we could see in Common ground the wraith there was starving and obviously they didn't use his potential.

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