Magic in Stargate

[Guest750]

So I've been pondering how magic could be integrated into the Stargate setting, and I think I've come up with something.
We already know that beings can access powers reminiscent of the Ascended, and we already know the Ascended gain power from worship.

Now "worship" can be a bit vague, so let's tweak it slightly to belief.

Now you've those that can use powers with their minds being considered wizards/hok'tor's/whatever. Across the galaxy magic and superstition is widely believed in (thank's Goa'uld for keeping everything primitive!).

So it's possible that there could be magic users a la Harry Potter, who normally would only have minor powers, but because they consider themselves magical, they're also drawing power from everyone else who believes in magic.

Thoughts?

[DigiFluid]

I think....Stargate has been explicit ever since the first movie that there's no such thing as magic, just technology that appears to be magic to primitives. So trying to introduce it into the Stargate universe would betray one of the bedrock philosophies upon which the entire fictional universe is built.

[P-90_177]

I think....Stargate has been explicit ever since the first movie that there's no such thing as magic, just technology that appears to be magic to primitives. So trying to introduce it into the Stargate universe would betray one of the bedrock philosophies upon which the entire fictional universe is built.

Indeed. I think at best you'd have to present it like the Rivers of London book series (if you haven't read them I highly recommend them. Especially to you Digi. I think you'd dig them) where magic is presented as something ethereal but as the main characters work out they do still follow physical laws like the conservation of energy and such. So for that reason when a person uses "magic" they are literally eating up their own body with it.

[Guest750]

I think....Stargate has been explicit ever since the first movie that there's no such thing as magic, just technology that appears to be magic to primitives. So trying to introduce it into the Stargate universe would betray one of the bedrock philosophies upon which the entire fictional universe is built.

My point was that Stargate's also made it explicit there are magic-like abilities, and the ability to draw power from belief. I don't see why combining the two to explain things that would otherwise look like magic betrays anything?

[maxo]

Not sure about actual "Magic" in Stargate but we have races and individuals with what could be interpreted as magical powers. The NOX for example had the ability to control their surroundings, nature and bring back the dead which some would see as magic.

My personal belief is that it is very plausible that somewhere out there could be a third group of Ancients who traveled to the Milky Way with the other Alterans but after some time began to have conflicting beliefs in what was right, perhaps believing in the beliefs of both Alterans and of the Ori and met somewhere in the middle. This group of Ancients broke away from the Alterans to follow their new formed beliefs, settled on a world somewhere and began acting out those beliefs.

This third group could have shun ascension and remained flesh and blood "humans" but somehow found a way to access the abilities of an ascended being and the powers that come with them. Because they're still human and very much alive the ascended Ancients couldn't interfere or stop them as that would be breaking their own rules so they've been left to their own devices.

Now that the Ori are dead and the ancients are powerless to interfere they can leave their hidden world and venture out in to the galaxy, popping up on various worlds and have the inhabitants believe their powers are actually "Magic".

[thekillman]

I think....Stargate has been explicit ever since the first movie that there's no such thing as magic, just technology that appears to be magic to primitives. So trying to introduce it into the Stargate universe would betray one of the bedrock philosophies upon which the entire fictional universe is built.

While this is true, there's also stuff like telekinesis, ascension and whatever the hell the Nox did, the Smoke aliens did, etc.

So true magic may not exist, but there are many things that are basically like magic.

[Gatefan1976]

If I were to write a story involving "magic" in Stargate, I would couch it more in the sense of Psionics. Every supernatural thing in SG involves mental energy far more than structured words like spells.

[NickEast]

The "magic" that currently exists in Stargate is simply the real-world definition of it, rather than the "supernatural" form of magic that exists in fantasy stories. It's either an illusion, highly advanced technology, or highly evolved life. And frankly, it should stay that way. Stargate is a science fiction franchise, not fantasy or science fantasy. It's not Star Wars, or Lord of the Rings.

Nothing in Stargate is supernatural. It's all perfectly natural, just beyond our level of understanding, just like most of the technology itself. Telekinesis, ascended powers, Ori will-sucking devotion, the Nox, and the Omeyocan; that's not magic. It's either technology or evolution that's beyond our understanding.

All examples given are "magic" in the sense of Clarke's Third Law: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". That's the whole basis for the Stargate mythology, how the Goa'uld, the Asgard, the Ancients, and the Ori became revered as gods. If the franchise suddenly start including fantasy magic, that mythology will collapse because the whole foundation that Stargate was built on no longer works.

[Chaka-Z0]

[Guest750]

Nothing in Stargate is supernatural.

Except for everything relating to ascension, where your spirit sheds it's corporeal form.
Because that's totally not supernatural.

[NickEast]

Except for everything relating to ascension, where your spirit sheds it's corporeal form.
Because that's totally not supernatural.

It's not supernatural in the Stargate universe, where it's perfectly natural (but rare). The "supernatural" is something that is "outside" nature, but as has been seen throughout the franchise, ascension is a state of evolution. And evolution is a part of nature. Ascension also has nothing to do with "spirit". It's a person's consciousness that evolves to the point that it sheds its physical appearance and ascends to a higher plane of existence. Not magic, but evolution.

That "ascension" is pure nonsense to us in the real world does not change the fact that it's a perfectly natural thing in the Stargate universe.

[Guest750]

It's not supernatural in the Stargate universe, where it's perfectly natural (but rare). The "supernatural" is something that is "outside" nature, but as has been seen throughout the franchise, ascension is a state of evolution. And evolution is a part of nature. Ascension also has nothing to do with "spirit". It's a person's consciousness that evolves to the point that it sheds its physical appearance and ascends to a higher plane of existence. Not magic, but evolution.

That "ascension" is pure nonsense to us in the real world does not change the fact that it's a perfectly natural thing in the Stargate universe.

No. Just no.
You don't get to claim that one thing isn't supernatural merely because it's already been inserted with a sci-fi veneer, and then say something else equally supernatural wouldn't work because it's supernatural.

[NickEast]

No. Just no.
You don't get to claim that one thing isn't supernatural merely because it's already been inserted with a sci-fi veneer, and then say something else equally supernatural wouldn't work because it's supernatural.

Eh?

[thekillman]

Eh?

Magic is a thing in the Harry Potter universe. That doesn't mean that it's not supernatural, or well, magic.

Same with Stargate: it already has a bunch of supernatural elements. Ascension is one of them. Telekinesis another. You can't say "it's not supernatural cause it's in the show". It's supernatural still.

[NickEast]

Now you're just putting words in my mouth. I never said "because it's in the show". It has nothing to do with the show itself. In the Stargate universe, all of those things are perfectly natural and rationally explained by science. Ascension and telekinesis are part of evolution, there is no mysterious "supernatural" force tied to it.

In Harry Potter and Star Wars, magic/the Force cannot be rationally explained by science. It's a supernatural force that has no basis in nature. The only thing that can be explained by science is that HP magic is passed down through genetics, and Force sensitivity is determined by midichlorians. But what that magic is or what the Force is cannot be explained at all.

Stargate already has magic. It's mysterious, we think it's supernatural, until the scientists figure out a perfectly rational explanation for what it really is. It's like Scooby Doo. Everyone thinks the monsters are real, until the characters literally unmask them and discover it's just an ordinary person in disguise.