Tracking Earth's Future via Current Events, etc.

[mad_gater]

Rapture ETA---October 21, 2011, according to Harold Camping

yes, before this date shows up, I felt a necessary tugging to post a follow-up to the whole Harold Camping expecting "THE Rapture" (of Christians) to occur on October 21, 2011. That's a Friday.

Most Christians tracking this event (and things Harold Camping said), do not believe the Rapture will occur on this date. It basically falls under "date-setting" which Jesus warned in Matthew 24:42 of the Bible that "you do not know on what day your Lord will come." (NIV)
If Jesus said it, then logically, then none of us would know the day nor the hour of his coming/return.

Unless something else significant occurs, I think Harold Camping will wake up on October 22, 2011 and realize he is still on earth, and not wisked away from the troubles plaguing our planet at the moment. Sadly, I think the media and everyone in disagreement with his appointed date viewpoint, will end up devouring him--verbally. He's also already 90 years old; so if he hasn't been accused of being senile, he might be during this round of *wishful* thinking.

I'd say this guy has cried wolf one too many times to be taken seriously

[mad_gater]

The trouble with 'prophecy' is that they're often left just vague enough that others will interpret the facts to fit the prophecy. It's like psychics, oracles and other frauds like that. That's how they operate.

yeah I don't put stock in the ravings of psychos psychics either......

[SGalisa]

about Harold Camping ----

I'd say this guy has cried wolf one too many times to be taken seriously

yep. You said it. Sad, tho. Does that fall under "senility" considering his age, or just plain old stubborness..?

I used to listen (for its musical artist segments) to Family Radio, which Harold Camping owned, and I often wondered what my favorite announcer (I think his name was Omar =) used to think of Harold Camping's rants. Omar's most significant line was when referring to the Rapture or simply being in heaven-----
"no more bills, pills, or ills"...! (*AMEN!!*)
I've never forgotten it ever since then, because it put life into a new perspective from my usual (naturally) negative personality tendencies.

[Gatefan1976]

yeah I don't put stock in the ravings of [strike]psychos[/strike psychics either......

Interesting position to take MG.

[mad_gater]

You would be right but I fixed it now. I must have thought it 1011 lol.

the 1000's is when the Muslims began terrorizing the West....not when they first came into existence.....

and they never gave up terrorizing the west either...they were just forced to lay low for a very long time after the West handed them their backsides at the Battle of Lapanto and pretty much wiped out the Muslims' entire naval capacity

[mad_gater]

Interesting position to take MG.

how so?

[Gatefan1976]

how so?

Let me put it this way dude.
What is divinely inspired, and what is the "ravings of a madman"?

You dismiss "ghosts", yet you believe in the "holy ghost", You dismiss "magic", yet believe in miracles and you are dismissing Psychic's for having a connection to the "other side", yet your faith demands belief in it's existance.

How much faith do you put in the "ravings of a madman" really??

[Ukko]

the 1000's is when the Muslims began terrorizing the West....not when they first came into existence.....

and they never gave up terrorizing the west either...they were just forced to lay low for a very long time after the West handed them their backsides at the Battle of Lapanto and pretty much wiped out the Muslims' entire naval capacity

[mad_gater]

Let me put it this way dude.
What is divinely inspired, and what is the "ravings of a madman"?

You dismiss "ghosts", yet you believe in the "holy ghost", You dismiss "magic", yet believe in miracles and you are dismissing Psychic's for having a connection to the "other side", yet your faith demands belief in it's existance.

How much faith do you put in the "ravings of a madman" really??

actually actually ghosts are possible...just not the traditional "soul hasn't crossed over kind"....but Catholics do believe that there is a temporal place after death called Purgatory where the soul goes who need to still serve penance for sins that have been forgiven...and part of this after death penance might be visiting with those they left behind to do whatever is needed to give closure and peace to them

magic though is actually something entirely different from a miracle....magic is when a human being thinks he can manipulate supernatural forces that we as humans in fact have very little, if any, control over....miracles, however are events that transpire that human reason says cannot happen, such as the host turned flesh and wine turned blood in the Eucharistic miracle at Lanciano in the 7th century and thus such events are attributed to God

so-called "psychics" believe they can foretell the future by manipulating supernatural forces that humans cannot control...for the supernatural rightfully cannot be controlled by mere human hands

whereas most prophets either get a vision from God or sometimes use past events and their effects to predict the effects of current events....though not as accurate a form of prophecy as the "vision from God" kind....but we humans do predict trends in things and we have many ways of doing so without resorting to manipulation of supernatural forces....like fitting existing data points to a regression curve and using them to predict the future values of another independent variable point outside the data set....for example analyzing someone's investment portfolio involves a set of data points with time as the independent variable and portfolio value as the dependent variable and fitting a regression curve to those points and using that curve to predict what the value might be at a future point in time....the curve would likely be sinusoidal....

but the point is that predicting trends is entirely different from having the arrogance to think that we can manipulate the supernatural

[SGalisa]

...You dismiss "magic", yet believe in miracles...

magic though is actually something entirely different from a miracle....magic is when a human being thinks he can manipulate supernatural forces that we as humans in fact have very little, if any, control over....miracles, however are events that transpire that human reason says cannot happen, such as the host turned flesh and wine turned blood in the Eucharistic miracle at Lanciano in the 7th century and thus such events are attributed to God

here's my take.. and I was raised Roman Catholic, so I know where MG is coming from. However, I left Catholicism after I got married (Catholics frown upon Protestant / Catholic unions, unless conversion to Catholicism occurs with the new spouse). So, I will present this from the Protestant sort of evangelical POV---

I think "magic" can also be described as an illusion, because that is what *magicians* claim it is. Doug Henning is a famous magician artist (and cute, cause he looks like one of my relatives =). During the 1970's or 1980's Doug Henning was known as Mr. Magic.

David Copperfield is considered a magician, but some people think he's a bit more than that, if he could truly walk thru a china wall without any tricks (Unless there was a secret entrance hatch at the point where he entered the wall and left). To the world watching (and there was a curtain in the way, so no one could see how in the world he could do this), it looked like an impossible magic trick---not a miracle, but just an amazing illusion or transformation of making himself invisible and then reappear, like in a Star Trek transporter beam. Question is -- did he or didn't he really disappear (for real) and then magically reappear in the flesh..? We may never know the answer to that.

However, a (genuine) *miracle* is when your savings and checking are down to ten dollars, and you need --say--
$156.75 to pay your (summer) electric bill within 2 days, or else the utilities company will shut off your power, and there is no way you can cough up that amount of money without stealing or borrowing it from somewhere... and lo and behold, some forgotten rebate check suddenly shows up in the mail the very next day for that exact amount $156.75. There was one story that involved over $2,000.00 and someone sent to that person a check which came out to the exact penny (which was an odd number).

I have heard maybe half a dozen personal stories of these sorts of incidences happening, when there was no where else to turn (but pray and/or beg for mercy from TPTB above.. and/or negotiate out some deal with the utilities if necessary). The person(s) who desperately needed the help considered it a *miracle* -- not a magic trick, because the check could have waited another week or so before showing up, but by then, it would have been too late.


There are other examples, but that's just one.

You dismiss "ghosts", yet you believe in the "holy ghost"...

actually actually ghosts are possible...just not the traditional "soul hasn't crossed over kind"....but Catholics do believe that there is a temporal place after death called Purgatory where the soul goes who need to still serve penance for sins that have been forgiven...and part of this after death penance might be visiting with those they left behind to do whatever is needed to give closure and peace to them

Again, from a Protestant / evangelical POV, ghosts are regarded as from the demonic class of angels, if they appear as a former loved one (purpose of a demon is to deceive for whatever goal the demon is after). Angels, who are not of the demonic classes, usually appear as strangers or animals, if they help other humans out. Neither of these are ghosts.

The Holy Ghost is also the Holy Spirit -- you cannot see it. It may be composed of living energy and can move into multiple persons. Traditional ghosts or ghouls (Halloween variety) can only inhabit one soul and be in one spot at a time. Same with angels (both demons and heavenly good types)--they can only be in one location spot at a time.

[shipper hannah]

Again, from a Protestant / evangelical POV, ghosts are regarded as from the demonic class of angels, if they appear as a former loved one (purpose of a demon is to deceive for whatever goal the demon is after). Angels, who are not of the demonic classes, usually appear as strangers or animals, if they help other humans out. Neither of these are ghosts.

The Holy Ghost is also the Holy Spirit -- you cannot see it. It may be composed of living energy and can move into multiple persons. Traditional ghosts or ghouls (Halloween variety) can only inhabit one soul and be in one spot at a time. Same with angels (both demons and heavenly good types)--they can only be in one location spot at a time.

Where on earth do you get these ideas from?

[SGalisa]

about ANGELs, DEMONs, Ghosts----(further resource studies included)

here's my take.. and I was raised Roman Catholic, so I know where MG is coming from. However, I left Catholicism after I got married (Catholics frown upon Protestant / Catholic unions, unless conversion to Catholicism occurs with the new spouse). So, I will present this from the Protestant sort of evangelical POV---
...
Again, from a Protestant / evangelical POV, ghosts are regarded as from the demonic class of angels, if they appear as a former loved one (purpose of a demon is to deceive for whatever goal the demon is after). Angels, who are not of the demonic classes, usually appear as strangers or animals, if they help other humans out. Neither of these are ghosts.

The Holy Ghost is also the Holy Spirit -- you cannot see it. It may be composed of living energy and can move into multiple persons. Traditional ghosts or ghouls (Halloween variety) can only inhabit one soul and be in one spot at a time. Same with angels (both demons and heavenly good types)--they can only be in one location spot at a time.

Where on earth do you get these ideas from?

(you had to ask... so, *ask and ye shall receive*.. =)

Would you prefer the Ryrie Study Bible version?
This may be opening up a whole can of worms, but is part of the great deception(s) thruout all of history described in the Bible, and one that leads the entire world into acceptance of the so-called coming "one-world spiritual leader" (false prophet with the "Anti-christ").
On the "ghosty" level, this can become a very exhausting study in more ways than one. (been there, done that! including spiritual warfare counseling with a few experts from Scotland.) However, I've noted a few books further below to lighten the study load.


I could go on in endless detail about my own experiences at inheriting the gift (or curse) of spiritism, being a 3rd generation spiritist, because my grandfather started the chain when he dove into occultism. That may explain why I got addicted to watching Tv's gothic Dark Shadows serial, but I have since broken away from the "spooks" because they're just too creepy.. and I lived in 2 homes that were supposedly "haunted". Creatures under the bed and in the basement..

One of the more notorious symptoms of a haunted room / location is that the room where a dead person haunts is usually cold. My bedroom was one of those places. Former resident informed me that their grandma died in that room, so I just prayed she was a nice ghost---and I was Catholic in those years. That sort of belief is probably residual of watching too much Dark Shadows with Josette and Barnabas, and Quentin Collins.

Unfortunately, at this moment I cannot go into greater details on "ghosts" (God's Spirit or any other type of "spirit") because I have several home projects I must complete ASAP (= birthday stuff), and am battling a serious sinus migraine at the same time. Grant it, some Church folks well versed in the area of spiritual warfare might think this is just an attack by Satan / the devil to make me deliberately sick (with allergies/flu), but I can't blame the devil for everything, when it's that time of the season where the plants are just wrecking havoc with my sinuses and changes in the weather are merely adding to that and aggravating things on a bigger scale.


Anywho...
What I presented is a generalization from several sources on the subject of ghosts and angels.


As for the Holy Spirit -- that's a Persona of God, and since God is/can be everywhere at the same time, so is the Holy Spirit. Angels are each their own separate entity and do not possess such powers. Even if humans could turn into ghosts upon their death, they also cannot be in more than one place at the same time.

For further study on the subject of ghosts, fallen angels / demonic impersonators, vs. the good guy angels, below is a list of recommended books, which contain supporting (Bible) scripture references in each book.

"The Challenging Counterfeit"
---- Can we communicate with the dead?
by Raphael Gasson (a former spirit medium)
© 1966, Bridge Publishing
ISBN 0-912106-66-2
(Basic Summary---an easy to read, excellent expose into how the spirit worlds actually work, according to Raphael Gasson's own personal experiences, with specific examples shedding interesting light on the supernatural.)


"Demons in the World Today"
by Merrill F. Unger
© 1971, Tyndale House Publishers, Inc.
ISBN 0-8423-0661-7
(Basic Summary---this is more written like a text book in advanced studies on demons, ghosts, and the supernatural. There is a section about Astrology and foretelling the future, demonic possession, demonic impersonations, etc.)


"Spiritual Warfare"
by Michael Harper
© 1970, Logos International
ISBN 0-912106-69-7 (or ISBN 0-88270-455-9/A515-7)
(Basic Summary blurb from book cover---"The dangers of the occult and how to be free from the Devil")


"When Angels Appear"
by Hope MacDonald
© 1982, Zondervan Publishing House
ISBN 0-310-28531-3
(Basic Summary---a fascinating composite of (helpful/good type of) angel encounter stories, and the forms they have appeared as to humans, who believe they have met them.)


BTW, the "When Angels Appear" book is my favorite book. For those folks who do believe in Angels, this selection of stories will most probably put a smile on your face as well as *spiritual* heart.

[Quizziard]

There seems to be a muddle about the term magic. It divides easily into "stage illusion", i.e. sleight of hand, diversion and trick, and "real magic". The latter is that class of ability referred to in connection with witches and warlocks, Wicca, Harry Potter and the like. From what I've seen/read, these different aspects attribute the source of their abilities (which I don't believe have ever been independently, scientifically verified) to different sources.

[SGalisa]

The Holy Ghost is also the Holy Spirit -- you cannot see it. It may be composed of living energy and can move into multiple persons. Traditional ghosts or ghouls (Halloween variety) can only inhabit one soul and be in one spot at a time. Same with angels (both demons and heavenly good types)--they can only be in one location spot at a time.

Where on earth do you get these ideas from?

Reinforcement of Angels only capable of being in one location at a time---

There are a few angels specifically named in the Bible, who are assigned to specific tasks or locations. Archangel Michael is apparently the protector over Israel.
How he can manage to protect over vast areas is not something I am personally privy to. Maybe there's some sort of interdimensional spaceship with a vast monitors of viewscreens (like the ones in master control room Tv studios, and there might be many helper *eyes* assigned to each monitor screen). IDK.

Anyway.. Angels, including any fallen angel spirit impersonator (demons), as mentioned in the Bible can only be in one location at a time. A specific example is given in Daniel 10:12-14 of an angel (not named, as far as I could tell, so it's just an ordinary angel lower in the heavenly hierarchy than the archangels) who needed Archangel Michael's assistance, because the angel was supposed to go help Daniel, but got side-lined in Persia for 21 days.

Spoiler:

Daniel 10:12) Then he continued, "Do not be afraid, Daniel. Since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them.

13) But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia.

14) Now I have come to explain to you what will happen to your people in the future, for the vision concerns a time yet to come."
(NIV)

[shipper hannah]

The question was rhetorical. Quote the Bible all you want: it's all nonsense to me.