GateWorld Forum: 2020 Vision!

[WraithTech]

We'd like to get back to the feeling that everyone and anyone is welcome to come here to discuss Stargate, and other science fiction and fantasy and other current TV shows, in an environment that is friendly and welcoming.

As a fan of one of the galactic races of the franchise, I have not felt welcome since around when Origins came out. As the moderation rules got more lax, non-canon posts about the races, posts bashing the lore’s entire races, and even posts calling for genocide of the lore’s races proliferated. I have seen this not only for Wraith, but also Jaffa, Unas, and Asurans. Several thoughtful posts I tried to make were derailed, only to have other folks paraphrase my posts on other platforms for thorough discussions which should have been done here.

Will GateWorld please get back to enforcing these rules? “Character bashing. Every main character and cast member has a devoted fan following, so it's not conducive to the atmosphere we want to foster to outright bash one of the show's main characters. You can criticize a character to your heart's content, but please keep it constructive and tactful.” And “WARNING - Deliberate Derailment of Threads.”

Please consider the following:
*Attacks on lore groups are often thinly-veiled attacks on real-life people and groups. Women leaders are among the most commonly attacked, as a class.
*Attacks on lore groups has resulted in some of the worst bullying and fighting I have ever witnessed in the fandom, including an outstanding one which has been still raging for 9 years and spanned several social media platforms.
*Lore-based attacks are based on untrue stereotypes, off-topic posts, and made-up scenes, which undermines the validity of the host site.
*Having a climate where objectification is casually permitted on fictional lore groups tacitly says it is OK to do so for all groups. The rise of attacks on real-life minorities in the forums goes hand-in-hand with the rise of attacks on the lore's fictional groups.
*Allowing attacks on the lore is unfriendly and unwelcoming to current and prospective fans of those galactic races and groups who are the magnets of staying power of science fiction shows. The longer the shows are off the air and hairstyles and fashions of human actors become dated, the same does not happen to galactic races whose styles are iconic and timeless and will continue to draw new fans.
*If Stargate fans will not respect Stargate lore, who will respect Stargate?

[Annoyed]

As a fan of one of the galactic races of the franchise, I have not felt welcome since around when Origins came out. As the moderation rules got more lax, non-canon posts about the races, posts bashing the lore’s entire races, and even posts calling for genocide of the lore’s races proliferated. I have seen this not only for Wraith, but also Jaffa, Unas, and Asurans. Several thoughtful posts I tried to make were derailed, only to have other folks paraphrase my posts on other platforms for thorough discussions which should have been done here.

Will GateWorld please get back to enforcing these rules? “Character bashing. Every main character and cast member has a devoted fan following, so it's not conducive to the atmosphere we want to foster to outright bash one of the show's main characters. You can criticize a character to your heart's content, but please keep it constructive and tactful.” And “WARNING - Deliberate Derailment of Threads.”

Please consider the following:
*Attacks on lore groups are often thinly-veiled attacks on real-life people and groups. Women leaders are among the most commonly attacked, as a class.
*Attacks on lore groups has resulted in some of the worst bullying and fighting I have ever witnessed in the fandom, including an outstanding one which has been still raging for 9 years and spanned several social media platforms.
*Lore-based attacks are based on untrue stereotypes, off-topic posts, and made-up scenes, which undermines the validity of the host site.
*Having a climate where objectification is casually permitted on fictional lore groups tacitly says it is OK to do so for all groups. The rise of attacks on real-life minorities in the forums goes hand-in-hand with the rise of attacks on the lore's fictional groups.
*Allowing attacks on the lore is unfriendly and unwelcoming to current and prospective fans of those galactic races and groups who are the magnets of staying power of science fiction shows. The longer the shows are off the air and hairstyles and fashions of human actors become dated, the same does not happen to galactic races whose styles are iconic and timeless and will continue to draw new fans.
*If Stargate fans will not respect Stargate lore, who will respect Stargate?

So, basically, you're saying that you don't want anyone criticized for any reason.

Under your ideas, if I said "The Ferengi are a greedy, profiteering race" or "The Borg are a machine-based hybrid species bent on eliminating all other forms of life" and you or someone who disagrees with that, or sees real-life parallels can object and I would be censored.

How do you have any sort of discussion at all under rules like that?

In Real or Fictional universes, people will disagree. You can't have a discussion if different ideas are not allowed expression.

[WraithTech]

So, basically, you're saying that you don't want anyone criticized for any reason.

Incorrect. This is a strawman of my post. I do not want to see racism, sexism, and other bigoted remarks, all of which have been going on here.

Under your ideas, if I said "The Ferengi are a greedy, profiteering race" or "The Borg are a machine-based hybrid species bent on eliminating all other forms of life" and you or someone who disagrees with that, or sees real-life parallels can object and I would be censored.

I have not watched all of Star Trek and can’t comment on that franchise. I can only comment on what I have seen in this fandom, which has included real-life bullying of forum members, including through Stargate characters as stand-ins for forum members.

How do you have any sort of discussion at all under rules like that?

This is a strawman falsely equating enforcing existing forum rules with not allowing discussion. GateWorld was functioning very well when I first joined in 2010 and there were a lot more mods enforcing the forum rules.

You have had your say in regards to GateWorld’s rules and I have had mine.

[Annoyed]

I have not watched all of Star Trek and can’t comment on that franchise. I can only comment on what I have seen in this fandom, which has included real-life bullying of forum members, including through Stargate characters as stand-ins for forum members.

I was using a franchise I am familiar with; I am not familiar with Stargate except for the basic outline of the series. This board is not exclusively Stargate-oriented.

And.... How do you bully someone in real life over the Internet? The very idea is a contradiction in terms.

[WraithTech]

And.... How do you bully someone in real life over the Internet? The very idea is a contradiction in terms.

GateWorld staff have already addressed this:

Nothing that looks to us like cyberbullying will be allowed to take root here in any form. No more mockery or objectification of groups, minorities, nor disrespect and slurs will be permitted.

[Falcon Horus]

I do not want to see racism, sexism, and other bigoted remarks, all of which have been going on here.

I hate to point it out but fictional politics and religion are still very much allowed, and considering how climate change and political correctness are flung around in modern day television shows, you're gonna find that the fictional world mirrors the real world a lot closer -- behind a thin veil of "fiction".

GateWorld was functioning very well when I first joined in 2010 and there were a lot more mods enforcing the forum rules.

Where were you went fandom exploded in the Quinn/Jackson wars? The Carter/Weir feuds? Sparky vs Sheyla? Pro-SGU/Anti-SGU?

I missed the first entirely, but definitely did not the others I mention.

And you hit the nail on the proverbial head right there in bold... There is but one left, Bagpuss. I don't know where Sky is hanging out these days but the forum has become self-moderated for the most part.

[jelgate]

I may have been adding gasoline to the fire FH.

I probably got more heated back then compared to niw

[WraithTech]

I hate to point it out but fictional politics and religion are still very much allowed, and considering how climate change and political correctness are flung around in modern day television shows, you're gonna find that the fictional world mirrors the real world a lot closer -- behind a thin veil of "fiction".

Religion and politics are not race/sex/etc. I can't speak to the shows in the modern day television shows threads, as I don't watch those.

Where were you went fandom exploded in the Quinn/Jackson wars? The Carter/Weir feuds? Sparky vs Sheyla? Pro-SGU/Anti-SGU?

If there was character bashing in those wars, then that goes back to enforcing existing rules for the forum. Edit: If those rules existed back then. Those wars would have been before I joined and SGA was already off the air.

[DarkenLycht]

How do you have any sort of discussion at all under rules like that?

One can have a discussion in a well-mannered way, that means expressing opposing opinions without making people feel bashed, bullied or hurt. It is all a matter of the words you choose. And such kind of discussions is what I think is wanted by this forum's staff.

Like, no one says you (in general you) cannot dislike the Borg when someone else says they like them but there is no need to hurt that person or make them feel like their opinion is unintelligent or worth less than yours, it is just different. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Annoyed]

One can have a discussion in a well-mannered way, that means expressing opposing opinions without making people feel bashed, bullied or hurt. It is all a matter of the words you choose. And such kind of discussions is what I think is wanted by this forum's staff.

Like, no one says you (in general you) cannot dislike the Borg when someone else says they like them but there is no need to hurt that person or make them feel like their opinion is unintelligent or worth less than yours, it is just different. Nothing more, nothing less.

From WraithTech's post:

*Attacks on lore groups are often thinly-veiled attacks on real-life people and groups. Women leaders are among the most commonly attacked, as a class.
*Attacks on lore groups has resulted in some of the worst bullying and fighting I have ever witnessed in the fandom, including an outstanding one which has been still raging for 9 years and spanned several social media platforms.
*Lore-based attacks are based on untrue stereotypes, off-topic posts, and made-up scenes, which undermines the validity of the host site.
*Having a climate where objectification is casually permitted on fictional lore groups tacitly says it is OK to do so for all groups. The rise of attacks on real-life minorities in the forums goes hand-in-hand with the rise of attacks on the lore's fictional groups.
*Allowing attacks on the lore is unfriendly and unwelcoming to current and prospective fans of those galactic races and groups who are the magnets of staying power of science fiction shows. The longer the shows are off the air and hairstyles and fashions of human actors become dated, the same does not happen to galactic races whose styles are iconic and timeless and will continue to draw new fans.
*If Stargate fans will not respect Stargate lore, who will respect Stargate?

He's talking about SG lore, which I assume is the history of events in the franchise, and I'm using Star Trek history.

I can say with a fair bit of certainty that The Borg are pretty much scumbags, because that's what they are in Trek history.

Under the rules Wraithtech wants, saying that would be forbidden.

I actually have much more to say about the topic, but I must be silent under the new order.

[WraithTech]

I am glad I said something on here, so that newbies visiting for Stargate, as foretold in the 2020 Vision statement, will better know what to expect of this forum in spite of what the 2020 Vision statement and rules say. As I said, as a Stargate fan, this has not been what I expected.

[DarkenLycht]

I am glad I said something on here, so that newbies visiting for Stargate, as foretold in the 2020 Vision statement, will better know what to expect of this forum in spite of what the 2020 Vision statement and rules say. As I said, as a Stargate fan, this has not been what I expected.

neither what I would expect really

And it was neither what I have expected when I signed up here. I did not feel welcome and still sometimes I feel like hiding that I like the Wraiths and I really hope that things change, because the first post of this thread made me hope for it.

[WraithTech]

first post of this thread made me hope for it.

The first post of this thread is what made me come back to give the forum another try and seeing the hard work Darren put into the changes. But, then my art was stolen again, albeit by a different Stargate org, and it was not respectful. Maybe I will put my account in hibernation and try the forum again in another few years, if new people come who are excited about Stargate and support one another. The more I rewatch SGA, the more I like a lot of the characters and see similarities. I had wanted to start a doppelganger thread, but am afraid it would get derailed as the one about children was.

@Az'ryel, Thank you for making people feel welcome. I see how you post to help new people and support the characters. Back when I signed up, there were more people such you here, and, hopefully, there will be again.

[Annoyed]

I hate to point it out but fictional politics and religion are still very much allowed, and considering how climate change and political correctness are flung around in modern day television shows, you're gonna find that the fictional world mirrors the real world a lot closer -- behind a thin veil of "fiction".

Remember Star Trek: The Next Generation S1 E4 "Code of Honor"?

Remember, I am old enough to have watched that first run in 1987. I recall being amazed that that racist piece made it on the air, let alone on a Star Trek show.

You're right, there is and always will be crossover 'tween SciFi & Real Life. After all, Sci Fi is real life and "what if" mashed together.

[Falcon Horus]

Religion and politics are not race/sex/etc.

Again, I hate to break it to you but you only have to look at the political climate of bans/anti-discrimination laws and whatnot, to know that race/sex/etc are very much a political matter -- as much as they are social matters.

Hence why I asked them to close the LGBTQIA+ thread. It too contains political discussions, and therefore should be falling under the same rules of as "religion" and "politics".

(I'm probably the only one of that group still active, and activity is dwindling again since the new rules were put into place)

Remember Star Trek: The Next Generation S1 E4 "Code of Honor"?

Unfortunately no... I was 6 in 87 and I didn't start watching TNG until it was in reruns in the nineties. I watched it to learn English.