LOTR TV Series coming to Amazon!

[Chaka-Z0]

....I wrote way too much, I had to split it across two posts

I should know better than to trigger a Tolkien geek!

Man thanks for that recap, you did a nice job to summarize thousands of pages in two posts. It made me realize how much I got things mixed up and need to read the whole shabang again.

One last question, about Bombadil. So that guy is a total mystery right? If I recall, it is said that he's been there for as long as the world existed, he's kind of part of the world itself which is why he is totally unaffected by any of the Ring's powers, including the One ring?

A shame they didn't include him in the movies, but I can see how his ''Magical songs'' would confuse the audience. They also skipped the part where Frodo is attacked by wights in the crypts. Basically they go straight to the Inn to meet Aragorn.

[DigiFluid]

I should know better than to trigger a Tolkien geek!

One last question, about Bombadil. So that guy is a total mystery right? If I recall, it is said that he's been there for as long as the world existed, he's kind of part of the world itself which is why he is totally unaffected by any of the Ring's powers, including the One ring?

Spot-on. Personally, I think it was Tolkien just getting a little 'flowery' in building up the pantheon of the weird and mystical for his world, because we're really never given much explanation about what exactly he is.

Peter Jackson and the filmmakers opted not to include him because they thought it would undermine the power of the Ring to have, in the first half hour of the movie, some random character toss it around like it's some useless trinket. Which incidentally is the same reason that the films depict Faramir differently than how he was presented in the books, because he did the exact same dismissive 'it is but a trinket!' thing and they didn't think that jived with how Boromir and Denethor were portrayed.

[DigiFluid]

I'm gonna go ubernerd here for just a moment....

Ever wonder why, when watching LOTR, the Elves are just f---ing done with this world?

It's because they're old. Vastly old in a way that's hard for us 'mere mortals' to comprehend.

Elrond, Lord of Rivendell, is the youngest of the Elf lords. He was born near the end of the First Age, meaning he was there for the War of Wrath, for the peace of the Second Age followed by its ruin to Sauron, through its restoration under Numenor, the fall of Numenor, and the War of the Last Alliance. And he was there for the whole of the Third Age. When we meet Elrond in The Hobbit/LOTR, he is roughly 6500 years old.

Galadriel is older still. She was born in Valinor (Eden, to give a parallel). She lived in 'heaven' when the gods fought amongst themselves, she was there when the Trees that lit the world were destroyed. She was among the Elves who forsook the gods and exiled themselves from heaven to seek vengeance and reclaim the Silmarils. She was there for all three Ages of the world. When we meet her in Lothlorien in Fellowship, she's around 8400 years old.



If you were eight and a half thousand years old, and in exchange for every five minutes of peace and quiet you had to endure a World War Two, you'd probably be freaking done with this world too



Also: Aragorn and Arwen are actually blood relatives. At the end of the First Age, Elrond and his brother Elros (the half-Elven children of the ones who made the voyage to Valinor to beg the gods' pardon) were given the choice of whether they would like to live as Elf or Man. Elrond chose Elf, and lived right till the end of the Third Age. His brother Elros chose to live as a Man, and was the founder of the kingdom of Numenor.

Aragorn is a direct blood descendant of Elros. So Aragorn and Arwen are literally cousins, albeit many generations and several thousands of years removed.

[Chaka-Z0]

Spot-on. Personally, I think it was Tolkien just getting a little 'flowery' in building up the pantheon of the weird and mystical for his world, because we're really never given much explanation about what exactly he is.

Peter Jackson and the filmmakers opted not to include him because they thought it would undermine the power of the Ring to have, in the first half hour of the movie, some random character toss it around like it's some useless trinket. Which incidentally is the same reason that the films depict Faramir differently than how he was presented in the books, because he did the exact same dismissive 'it is but a trinket!' thing and they didn't think that jived with how Boromir and Denethor were portrayed.

Or Bombadil was meant to be... ''Puts on Sunglasses'' the representation of Tolkien himself in the story. Jokes aside, I think it's a cool addition to world building.

You motivated me to start a re-read again, perhaps more question in the future will be coming. Thanks Digi

[Teddybrown]

Well... your knowledge puts my love of LOTR to shame haha!

I watched (and loved, still do) the films as a kid then read the LOTR trilogy and the additions at the end and The Hobbit, knew about the Silmarillion but never started them as they kinda daunted me, reading your summary Im quite glad I didnt as I would be so lost!

Question though, didnt Sam leave Middle Earth? Im sure I read he left after Frodo but I might have read a fan fic... Also didnt Legolas and Gimli go off somewhere?

[DigiFluid]

Well... your knowledge puts my love of LOTR to shame haha!

A life well-wasted

I watched (and loved, still do) the films as a kid then read the LOTR trilogy and the additions at the end and The Hobbit,

Yep me too...my sixth grade English teacher had us read The Hobbit and I loved it. The LOTR films came out when I was in high school -- I was actually working at the local movie theatre at the time

knew about the Silmarillion but never started them as they kinda daunted me, reading your summary Im quite glad I didnt as I would be so lost!

Nah, I'm sure you'd be fine. The Silmarillion itself is really just divided into three unequal parts:
1) The Genesis story, that Music stuff I was talking about above. Even as a Tolkien nerd, I find it a bit dry and am not too upset if I skip it
2) The Elves in Valinor and the First Age. This is by far the bulk of the book, and is written kind of as a series of interconnected short stories in mostly chronological order until the end of the First Age.
3) A mini-short story about Numenor.

That's it. For my two cents, the stories told in the main part of the book are far more epic and tragic than anything else in the whole history of the Legendarium.

All that business about the Second Age? That's pieced together from the Numenor part of The Silmarillion, backstory in LOTR, the Appendices in LOTR, and the book of Unfinished Tales. There's no single book or series of books that details all of it, you kind of have to do the work yourself (or else hit up the Wikia), because Tolkien never took the time to assemble it into a single narrative.

Question though, didnt Sam leave Middle Earth? Im sure I read he left after Frodo but I might have read a fan fic... Also didnt Legolas and Gimli go off somewhere?

You know what...you are absolutely right. For Sam, once he gets back to the Shire and starts a family with Rosie, I tend to think of that as the end of his story because he has his family, becomes Mayor, and finishes Bilbo's Red Book. But you're right -- decades later, he's also granted leave to go into the West, because he had also been a Ringbearer (however briefly).

Legolas and Gimli hung out together a lot after the War of the Ring, going exploring and sightseeing throughout Middle Earth. As an Elf, the standing invitation to return to Valinor included him, so ultimately he went into the West as well--and brought Gimli with him.

So, two things I forgot. Whoops

[Teddybrown]

I would love a road trip style show of Gimli and Legolas touring Middle Earth together, really liked their story in the films of gaining respect for eachother!

Shame John Rhys-Davies cant stand the make up due to allergic reactions, the main reason he didnt appear in The Hobbit despite being invited.

[Chaka-Z0]

So, two things I forgot. Whoops

Also the movies didn't show the uprising of the Hobbits and Sarouman who had taken over control of the Shire, after the Ring was destroyed. Frodo killed him right?

[DigiFluid]

Also the movies didn't show the uprising of the Hobbits and Sarouman who had taken over control of the Shire, after the Ring was destroyed. Frodo killed him right?

Yeah the Shire was conquered by Saruman after his defeat as Isengard, and the 'scouring of the Shire' is what the Hobbits came home to after Mordor and the celebrations in Gondor. It makes a certain logical sense, but I always thought it felt a little tacked-on.

Saruman was murdered by Grima Wormtongue though (slit his throat), not Frodo. If I remember right, I believe it happened either inside or just outside the door of Bag-End.

[Chaka-Z0]

Yeah the Shire was conquered by Saruman after his defeat as Isengard, and the 'scouring of the Shire' is what the Hobbits came home to after Mordor and the celebrations in Gondor. It makes a certain logical sense, but I always thought it felt a little tacked-on.

Saruman was murdered by Grima Wormtongue though (slit his throat), not Frodo. If I remember right, I believe it happened either inside or just outside the door of Bag-End.

Wormtongue was shot by arrows then, I know one of them died at the hands of the hobbits.

[Gatefan1976]

Wormtongue was shot by arrows then, I know one of them died at the hands of the hobbits.

Not in return of the king, the book. Wormtongue was still his advisor/stoolie in the shire.

[DigiFluid]

Not in return of the king, the book. Wormtongue was still his advisor/stoolie in the shire.

Presumably Chaka meant after Wormtongue murders Saruman. (And he’s right - book Grima was shot with an arrow by a Hobbit, rather than by Legolas as in the film)

[Gatefan1976]

Presumably Chaka meant after Wormtongue murders Saruman. (And he’s right - book Grima was shot with an arrow by a Hobbit, rather than by Legolas as in the film)

Just trying to clarify the timeline.
Saruman was not killed in Isengard, but in the shire.

[DigiFluid]

Looks like it IS going to be in the Second Age after all!

[Chaka-Z0]

The Gods are pleased.