The Sci. & Tech. Concordance and Discussion Thread

[Seastallion]

oh, but what about background radiation, prety sure subspace is filled with it, would that have anyhting to do with it?

Your quite correct. There is a strong possibility that the further a signal has to travel the more it gets degraded over time because of outside influences such as stars, blackholes, and other celestial phenomenon. This is where repeater stations would go a LONG way in establishing a reliable communications signal. We DO know that the subspace communications tech the SGC has IS capable of transmitting well enough to a point halfway across the void between the galaxies and with a repeater, can get across the rest of the way without difficulty. The signal leaving said galaxy MUST though at least be near the edge of said galaxy to reach the midway point clearly. It would make sense for Midway Station to have a Subspace Com repeater, apart from the Stargate Network itself, which we have seen used to allow instant two way visual communication between Earth and Atlantis. That is fine for 'live' calls, but the Subspace Com could be used for things such as email correspondence, and still reach Atlantis in a fairly short time. They just need a 'chain' of repeaters, exactly the same way they did with the 'Intergalactic Bridge', just not needing nearly so many as the bridge did.

[Crazy Tom]

subspace communication to atlantis not viable becasue the speed of light in subspace is still too slow? or is it more because of the radiation?

[Seastallion]

subspace communication to atlantis not viable becasue the speed of light in subspace is still too slow? or is it more because of the radiation?

Well, the speed of the transmission signal isn't really an issue in this case. In terms of 'speed', a subspace signal is certainly POTENTIALLY fast enough to allow for live two way communication between Earth and Atlantis. They do this routinely now, by using the intergalactic bridge as a conduit for their radio signals. The trick isn't so much the speed, as it is about the power behind the transmission, much like a radio. A radio's range is determined by the power output it is capable of. The same is true of a subspace transmitter.

If your referring to subspace 'radiation', then that is basically the problem. Essentially, it is background radiation from stars and other celestial bodies that can make their presence 'felt' in subspace. One would assume that any reasonably sized moon or planet would leave a 'footprint' in subspace because of their immense (relatively speaking) gravity fields that would make an 'indention' in subspace. These footprints or indentions would also assist with navigation in subspace. It would allow for more precise calculations such as how close to a planet one is dropping from subspace based on the 'footprint' of said planet while in subspace.

The specific problem for subspace transmitters is 'Wave Pattern Interference'. The closer to the source of the transmission, the clearer the signal is, however the further you go from it the signal gets 'diluted' because of overlapping wave patterns from other sources. Some waves won't do much to interfere with said signal, but others depending upon their amplitude and frequecy modulations just might. Given enough 'Wave Pattern Interference' the signal will become so diluted that it can no longer be decoded properly. This is called 'Signal Degradation'. As a result, once a subspace signal has reached the extent of the range it can reach while maintaining a coherent signal (based on the amount of power used to transmit and amplify said signal), it requires a signal 'booster'.

The signal booster is merely a 'repeater', meaning that it receives a signal and then re-transmits it with a similiar amplification power as from the original source of the transmission. A chain of these 'boosters' will allow a signal to reach MUCH further distance than a single very powerful transmitter. Dr. Lee on Stargate referred to it as the 'Twighlight Bark', using the examples from the '101 Dalmations' and 'Lord of the Rings' movies. The Intergalactic Bridge uses this precise method to allow Gate travel between Earth and Atlantis without the use of a ZPM. After all, the Stargates are themselves 'subspace transmitters'.

So, your choices are either a 'super-uber' powerful transmitter to get your signal across in one go, OR use a chain of mediocre transmitters to do the same thing. The second method is generally more 'economical'.

Hope this helps..!

-Seastallion

[Daryl Froggy]

I know this has probably been asked before, haven't found it yet though.

How tough could a biologically based ship really be? If we aren't trying to make them uber-ships just as realistic as possible in a fictional setting.

Personally I'm not sure that they'd be that tough at all but what do you think?

[Crazy Tom]

First you have to define bioship, the Shadow battle crabs from B5 used some kind of nano skin, not strictly biologocal, but i could be mistaken.

[Daryl Froggy]

Ships using biological components for primary systems and structures.

In other words ships that have biological skin for a hull and something similar to a skeleton for the ships support structures. And various other systems such as weapons, life support, propulsion, defense.

Also it could have a non-biological support structure.


That is generally what I was thinking about when I asked the question.

[xSFx]

If wraith ships are organic what do they eat?
The series Lexx also featured an organic ship that was fed a steady diet of human body parts.

[Crazy Tom]

Spoiler:

This thread is actually crossing territory that has already been crossed repeatedly. In my opinion, it ought to be tied to another earlier thread on the same topic. Having said that, since it has been a while, I'll go through the differences again.

The simple answer to said simple question is... yes.

However, there is a far more complicated answer available if you want it. I would assume, that since you bothered to create the thread in the first place that you are inclined to hear it. So... here goes.

Hyperdrives in the Stargate universe are broken down primarily into two main types; Interstellar and Intergalactic. The differences are more than just power and speed, as there are critical design variations that are primarily responsible for said differences. Since we're dealing with technological fiction it is IMPOSSIBLE to know EXACTLY what said differences might be in a 'real world' scenario. However, since Psuedo-technology is based (even if loosely) on real world science, we CAN make certain reasonable statements with the details we have been given by the show and its creators about said technologies.

There are some common misconceptions about Hyperdrives that I think ought to be addressed first that should help to clear up some confusion on various related topics. First, it should be understood that a Hyperdrive does NOT have a built in power source, NOR is the Hyperdrive a power source in and of itself. Hyperdrives DO NOT power ships and/or weapons. Hyperdrives do one thing, and one thing only; they create Hyperspace Windows by means of a focused gravitic field, and then maintain that field upon entering subspace through which a ship travels by means of a tunneling effect (created and sustained by the gravitic field) called a Subspace or Hyperspace Corridor.

Hyperspace is the area within the tunnel (or Corridor), whereas Subspace is the area outside the tunnel (the shiny swirly area...). Hyperspace is in fact not a seperate dimension from Subspace itself, rather it is a 'state of active manipulation' within subspace created by the effects of the Hyperdrive engine. One way you might think of it, is the difference between the ocean and an ocean current. The ocean current isn't a seperate part of the ocean, rather it is just another part of it that is in an active state that is different than most of the ocean. Despite the difference, they are both water and a part of the same body. Ships with propellers (in the water) do a very similiar thing. The engine turns the propeller which creates an artificial current that drives the ship through the water. Hyperdrive engines have a similiar concept, except instead of manipulating water, it is subspace.

Both, the Interstellar and Intergalactic hyperdrive engines manipulate subspace via gravitic fields, however they differ in terms of efficiency and precision of power usage. Interstellar Hyperdrives are relatively crude in comparison to its Intergalactic counterpart, and thus given the same amount of energy travels a great deal less far. You might think of it as the difference between a great martial arts master and a novice. To accomplish the same thing, the novice would end up working many times harder than the master. The master would make it seem nearly effortless because he knows how to get the most results from the least effort. In other words, the Intergalactic hyperdrive engine uses the available energy with far greater grace and efficiency, than the Interstellar counterpart, thus achieveing more distance travelled.

This brings up another point. The Asgard ships seemed capable of travelling huge distances in very little time, whereas Humans ships equipped with Asgard Intergalactic Hyperdrives seemed to take far longer even with the advanced engines. Why? The answer is that while the hyperdrives were on par with each other, the Power Source feeding those hyperdrive were VASTLY different. Human ships are still incapable of providing their hyperdrives with enough power to allow them to travel any faster than they do (which by MilkyWay standards is VERY fast already), whereas Asgard ships are capable of providing their hyperdrive engines with insane amounts of power. Thus, even though the engines are basically the same, the power sources feeding said engines are not even close to being in the same league.

The point finally being, that hyperdrive engine speeds are determined by both the efficiency of power usage, AND the amount of power available to be used. As it stands, Earth is VERY unlikely to improve upon the Hyperdrive technology they have for quite a while. On the other hand, they CAN vastly improve upon their energy generator technology, which in and of itself allow their ships to go much faster. Point in case; the Daedalus was able to travel from Earth to Atlantis in 4 days with the use of a ZPM, whereas normally the trip would take them nearly 3 weeks. Additionally, if Earth were to upgrade the materials used to make their ships, they might be able to increase the efficiency of power usage even more. If that had already been the case, it is potentially possible that the ZPM might have been able to get them to Atlantis inside of a day, but despite the incredible amount of power a ZPM has, if the materials it is being channeled into can't withstand it, then it is useless.

I've spoken already of the efficiency of materials used in relation to hyperdrive technology, but what about the efficiency of use in power? One might express the differences between the Intergalactic and Interstellar hyperdrives as the IG (Intergalactic) being 'streamlined' in its use of power compared to the IS (Interstellar). For instance, the size of hyperspace field directly relates to power consumption. The smaller the field, the less power required, and vice versa. This is where precision in field control and complexity comes in. If the 'IG' hyperdrive can create a far more complicated and streamlined gravitic field than the 'IS' hyperdrive, than that would give it an advantage in terms of energy duration and distance traveled. The point again being that the power source itself does NOT come into the inherent differences of the specific hyperdrive technologies, although a power source can greatly influence what a hyperdrive can achieve.

In other words, if you take an 'IS' hyperdrive and hook it up to an awesome power source, and then take an 'IG' hyperdrive and hook it up to a mediocre power source, you might expect them to achieve very similiar results, than if they both shared a similiar power source. Teal'c might have miscalculated the time it would take for the Goa'uld to reach Earth with their ships because in the time since he had left, the Goa'uld had achieved either more efficient hyperdrive technology, or better energy generators, OR BOTH.

Power sources aside though, the defining difference between the Intergalactic hyperdrive and the Interstellar hyperdrive is efficiency of power usage. No doubt there is far more technical details involved, but that is the most simple and direct answer. 'IG' hyperdrives takes the same amount of power an 'IS' hyperdrive might use and achieves more with it. Period.

Ok, there is one thing that bugs me anout it When you open a "tunnel", thre are 2 open ends, but weve seen in the show that the hyperspace window closes behind ships before they reach their destination. Can someone explain that, or is it just a misinterpretation on my part?

[Seastallion]

Spoiler:

This thread is actually crossing territory that has already been crossed repeatedly. In my opinion, it ought to be tied to another earlier thread on the same topic. Having said that, since it has been a while, I'll go through the differences again.

The simple answer to said simple question is... yes.

However, there is a far more complicated answer available if you want it. I would assume, that since you bothered to create the thread in the first place that you are inclined to hear it. So... here goes.

Hyperdrives in the Stargate universe are broken down primarily into two main types; Interstellar and Intergalactic. The differences are more than just power and speed, as there are critical design variations that are primarily responsible for said differences. Since we're dealing with technological fiction it is IMPOSSIBLE to know EXACTLY what said differences might be in a 'real world' scenario. However, since Psuedo-technology is based (even if loosely) on real world science, we CAN make certain reasonable statements with the details we have been given by the show and its creators about said technologies.

There are some common misconceptions about Hyperdrives that I think ought to be addressed first that should help to clear up some confusion on various related topics. First, it should be understood that a Hyperdrive does NOT have a built in power source, NOR is the Hyperdrive a power source in and of itself. Hyperdrives DO NOT power ships and/or weapons. Hyperdrives do one thing, and one thing only; they create Hyperspace Windows by means of a focused gravitic field, and then maintain that field upon entering subspace through which a ship travels by means of a tunneling effect (created and sustained by the gravitic field) called a Subspace or Hyperspace Corridor.

Hyperspace is the area within the tunnel (or Corridor), whereas Subspace is the area outside the tunnel (the shiny swirly area...). Hyperspace is in fact not a seperate dimension from Subspace itself, rather it is a 'state of active manipulation' within subspace created by the effects of the Hyperdrive engine. One way you might think of it, is the difference between the ocean and an ocean current. The ocean current isn't a seperate part of the ocean, rather it is just another part of it that is in an active state that is different than most of the ocean. Despite the difference, they are both water and a part of the same body. Ships with propellers (in the water) do a very similiar thing. The engine turns the propeller which creates an artificial current that drives the ship through the water. Hyperdrive engines have a similiar concept, except instead of manipulating water, it is subspace.

Both, the Interstellar and Intergalactic hyperdrive engines manipulate subspace via gravitic fields, however they differ in terms of efficiency and precision of power usage. Interstellar Hyperdrives are relatively crude in comparison to its Intergalactic counterpart, and thus given the same amount of energy travels a great deal less far. You might think of it as the difference between a great martial arts master and a novice. To accomplish the same thing, the novice would end up working many times harder than the master. The master would make it seem nearly effortless because he knows how to get the most results from the least effort. In other words, the Intergalactic hyperdrive engine uses the available energy with far greater grace and efficiency, than the Interstellar counterpart, thus achieveing more distance travelled.

This brings up another point. The Asgard ships seemed capable of travelling huge distances in very little time, whereas Humans ships equipped with Asgard Intergalactic Hyperdrives seemed to take far longer even with the advanced engines. Why? The answer is that while the hyperdrives were on par with each other, the Power Source feeding those hyperdrive were VASTLY different. Human ships are still incapable of providing their hyperdrives with enough power to allow them to travel any faster than they do (which by MilkyWay standards is VERY fast already), whereas Asgard ships are capable of providing their hyperdrive engines with insane amounts of power. Thus, even though the engines are basically the same, the power sources feeding said engines are not even close to being in the same league.

The point finally being, that hyperdrive engine speeds are determined by both the efficiency of power usage, AND the amount of power available to be used. As it stands, Earth is VERY unlikely to improve upon the Hyperdrive technology they have for quite a while. On the other hand, they CAN vastly improve upon their energy generator technology, which in and of itself allow their ships to go much faster. Point in case; the Daedalus was able to travel from Earth to Atlantis in 4 days with the use of a ZPM, whereas normally the trip would take them nearly 3 weeks. Additionally, if Earth were to upgrade the materials used to make their ships, they might be able to increase the efficiency of power usage even more. If that had already been the case, it is potentially possible that the ZPM might have been able to get them to Atlantis inside of a day, but despite the incredible amount of power a ZPM has, if the materials it is being channeled into can't withstand it, then it is useless.

I've spoken already of the efficiency of materials used in relation to hyperdrive technology, but what about the efficiency of use in power? One might express the differences between the Intergalactic and Interstellar hyperdrives as the IG (Intergalactic) being 'streamlined' in its use of power compared to the IS (Interstellar). For instance, the size of hyperspace field directly relates to power consumption. The smaller the field, the less power required, and vice versa. This is where precision in field control and complexity comes in. If the 'IG' hyperdrive can create a far more complicated and streamlined gravitic field than the 'IS' hyperdrive, than that would give it an advantage in terms of energy duration and distance traveled. The point again being that the power source itself does NOT come into the inherent differences of the specific hyperdrive technologies, although a power source can greatly influence what a hyperdrive can achieve.

In other words, if you take an 'IS' hyperdrive and hook it up to an awesome power source, and then take an 'IG' hyperdrive and hook it up to a mediocre power source, you might expect them to achieve very similiar results, than if they both shared a similiar power source. Teal'c might have miscalculated the time it would take for the Goa'uld to reach Earth with their ships because in the time since he had left, the Goa'uld had achieved either more efficient hyperdrive technology, or better energy generators, OR BOTH.

Power sources aside though, the defining difference between the Intergalactic hyperdrive and the Interstellar hyperdrive is efficiency of power usage. No doubt there is far more technical details involved, but that is the most simple and direct answer. 'IG' hyperdrives takes the same amount of power an 'IS' hyperdrive might use and achieves more with it. Period.

Ok, there is one thing that bugs me anout it When you open a "tunnel", thre are 2 open ends, but weve seen in the show that the hyperspace window closes behind ships before they reach their destination. Can someone explain that, or is it just a misinterpretation on my part?

The 'tunnel' you see on the show is an effect of the Hyperdrive as it 'tunnels' (i.e.- digging) through hyperspace. It isn't open ended because the 'tunnel' hasn't reached its exit via shutting down the hyperdrive. In a sense you might think of the hyperspace window closing (upon a ship entering it) as a sort of 'collapse' of the entrance into hyperspace. The tunnel is still being made, but it is constantly collapsing behind the ship, just as it is constantly being 'dug' in front of it. The tunnels that a hyperdrive creates are VERY temporary, and have no constant entrance or exit. The tunnel itself might be thought of as constantly shifting or moving with the ship through hyperspace, and collapsing altogether when the hyperdrive ceases to function. It is sort of like an elongated 'bubble' preceding and following the ship through hyperspace, but it gets 'popped' upon re-entry into 'normal' space.

I hope that helps!

(p.s.- My first post on my sister's new laptop..! Whee! )

[Crazy Tom]

Thanks, now i get it.

[iLemon]

Hey guys, I was just wondering how the gate on Earth is powered? Wouldn't it require a substantial amount of energy to create a stable wormhole?

[Crazy Tom]

Hey guys, I was just wondering how the gate on Earth is powered? Wouldn't it require a substantial amount of energy to create a stable wormhole?

Surprisingly..............no. We've seen a gate powered by a single lighting strike, somebody do the calcs..........

[iLemon]

Surprisingly..............no. We've seen a gate powered by a single lighting strike, somebody do the calcs..........

hehe fair enough, if only it was that simple in real life

[Dev Corvin]

1.21 Jiggawatts.

[thekillman]

the seeds sheds some light on wraith hive creation