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Revolution (NBC) : News/Speculation/General Discussion SPOILERS S2

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    #46
    Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
    Still... Even if they start looting (and considering the security of some of the stores out there today, even if the power goes out.) and start getting better weapons; they're not going to get overpowered by the onslaught. They know what to do and they know how to communicate with each other during such incidents, quanity = equal quality.

    And there was an incident in LA where the power was out for a few days and nobody looted within the first few hours from my knowledge, I doubt they'd start looting instantly but they would get uneasy about the situation when after a few days the power isn't going to be coming back on.
    Yes but, lets take for example me. I'm sitting in my room, suddenly the power goes out. Fair enough, but my laptop does not work either. Weird but maybe the blackout fried it. Grab my ipod to listen to music, it does not work, maybe the battery died. Pick up my phone to play a game, it too does not work. Things start to get weird. I leave my room, with the card reader unable to let me back into my room. I go outside, other people are claiming that their phones are dead and cars wont start. Now I start to feel a little freaked out.

    After five days I would be very worried, no emergency services have been heard from, without cars they would have difficulty moving about. Food begins to run low and cooking meat etc is difficult to do. I grab what money i have and head to the store to try to buy something, however the owner does not let anyone in, as he has no way to know and add prices, people start freaking out and yelling. Suddenly the door is busted open and people start grabbing stuff. What should I do, sit around and judge the others, no i grab some stuff and run for it.

    Comment


      #47
      Originally posted by magictrick View Post
      What happens when there is no support for anyone? The best example would be, what if the New York blackouts weren't just in New York, but in the whole country? Or the entire world? Would the response have been the same?
      In my opinion, yes... While it effects everybody, the people in the area think that it's local and would result in the same bonding together as the other incidents; and though the county (or government) may not be as efficient as before, they'd still be able to help.

      Originally posted by magictrick View Post
      The point is, anyone who creates these types of shows that focus on global incidents can pretty much create the world however they want since there is no benchmark to compare to in our history.
      There may be no benchmark but that doesn't mean they can't utilize more effort to build the world that they want; ie actually researching the governments instead of claiming that they fell due to lack of electricity.

      Originally posted by escyos View Post
      Yes but, lets take for example me. I'm sitting in my room, suddenly the power goes out. Fair enough, but my laptop does not work either. Weird but maybe the blackout fried it. Grab my ipod to listen to music, it does not work, maybe the battery died. Pick up my phone to play a game, it too does not work. Things start to get weird. I leave my room, with the card reader unable to let me back into my room. I go outside, other people are claiming that their phones are dead and cars wont start. Now I start to feel a little freaked out.
      Just like Tom Cruise in War of the Worlds.

      Originally posted by escyos View Post
      After five days I would be very worried, no emergency services have been heard from, without cars they would have difficulty moving about.
      They could still be heard from, (though the difficulty part is noted) and the local government of the city can still organize a meeting to gather the town together and discuss what's wrong.

      Originally posted by escyos View Post
      Food begins to run low and cooking meat etc is difficult to do.
      If the gas pipes still work than you could use those and flames to ignite the stove and cook food. Additionally you can also create a fire to cook your food on if you've kept gasoline or matches (or more rarely, the ability to use flint rock to actually start fires)

      Originally posted by escyos View Post
      I grab what money i have and head to the store to try to buy something, however the owner does not let anyone in, as he has no way to know and add prices
      This is why price tags exist; people need to know how much things cost, otherwise there'd be lots of instances where they'd bring the item to a cashier or a scanner just to know how much it would cost. though there'd be no way to figure out the global demand for prices during a blackout, he can still locally modify prices by changing the price tag; though unfairness does play some part here.

      Originally posted by escyos View Post
      people start freaking out and yelling. Suddenly the door is busted open and people start grabbing stuff. What should I do, sit around and judge the others, no i grab some stuff and run for it.
      I understand if they didn't let people in but for not knowing how to know and add prices, doubtful. Riots usually start randomly, either out of anger or due to some issue where someone isn't getting the help they need and the people just join in because hey, if one guy is doing it, why can't we? I can't exactly pinpoint which riots become logical (as in for survival) or senseless (just random looting without any survival purpose whatsoever.) but the riot mentality exists.

      I still doubt that the blackout would cause them to loot and riot; unless there was something that drove them over the edge but that would have to be extremely sudden in a coordinated world like this.
      Back from the grave.

      Comment


        #48
        Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
        In my opinion, yes... While it effects everybody, the people in the area think that it's local and would result in the same bonding together as the other incidents; and though the county (or government) may not be as efficient as before, they'd still be able to help.
        You seem to think its the same as a simple power cut. My laptop, phone, MP3 player and everything else i own that runs on batteries, still work during a power cut. Cars and backup generators still work. Planes falling from the sky (living near an airport, thats something i'd notice) isnt something that happens during a power cut and anyone with half a brain could tell that something is seriously wrong if all that started happening; not simply believe it a local blackout.
        Less efficient? As with governments, they (emergency services, people in general etc) wouldnt know where to go to help, or what to help with. Nothing works. How are firemen to get to fires and put them out? How are hospitals going to function without any power? Especially at night. How are the police or military going to keep control when they have no way of knowing where the trouble is, or have the means to get there in anything close to reasonable time? Same goes for ambulances. They would probably kill to simply be "less efficient".



        Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
        There may be no benchmark but that doesn't mean they can't utilize more effort to build the world that they want; ie actually researching the governments instead of claiming that they fell due to lack of electricity.
        Governments can govern now because they have the means to do so, take away that means and they cease to govern.

        Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
        Just like Tom Cruise in War of the Worlds.
        Theres an accurate depiction of what would happen....


        Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
        They could still be heard from, (though the difficulty part is noted) and the local government of the city can still organize a meeting to gather the town together and discuss what's wrong.
        How would you hear from them? How are they to know where they're needed, get there and be able to help? You'd need to bump into them in the street.
        Effective, efficient communication would be needed to organize such a meeting. The whole city or town (unless very small) wouldnt know of this meeting, and no one would know what was wrong. Local governments are useless enough already.

        Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
        If the gas pipes still work than you could use those and flames to ignite the stove and cook food. Additionally you can also create a fire to cook your food on if you've kept gasoline or matches (or more rarely, the ability to use flint rock to actually start fires)
        And what happens to the pipelines when SCADA goes offline?
        Pipeline operation.


        Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
        This is why price tags exist; people need to know how much things cost, otherwise there'd be lots of instances where they'd bring the item to a cashier or a scanner just to know how much it would cost. though there'd be no way to figure out the global demand for prices during a blackout, he can still locally modify prices by changing the price tag; though unfairness does play some part here.


        I understand if they didn't let people in but for not knowing how to know and add prices, doubtful. Riots usually start randomly, either out of anger or due to some issue where someone isn't getting the help they need and the people just join in because hey, if one guy is doing it, why can't we? I can't exactly pinpoint which riots become logical (as in for survival) or senseless (just random looting without any survival purpose whatsoever.) but the riot mentality exists.

        How are people going to pay exactly? Withdraw money from the bank? Cos they're gonna need cash, and lots of it. Cards are no good anymore. Tills wont work either.
        Riots and looting will ensue. Tempers will flare. People will want to "defend" there own and "protect" whats theirs. Mob rule.

        Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
        I still doubt that the blackout would cause them to loot and riot; unless there was something that drove them over the edge but that would have to be extremely sudden in a coordinated world like this.
        People will loot and riot if they see the opportunity to do so. The recent UK riots are an example of that.
        Need for food, clean water, fule etc are perfect reasons for people to go over the edge. The event doesnt happen gradually, its sudden. Someone hits the off switch.
        sigpic

        Comment


          #49
          Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
          They could still be heard from, (though the difficulty part is noted) and the local government of the city can still organize a meeting to gather the town together and discuss what's wrong.
          First a politician would have to get to their building, meet with the other politicians, divide up tasks, get their aides to run these tasks out (its the city, there are no horse and carts roaming about). You'd need a large area to aspeak at, but then people too would need the means to get there, if they have to walk 15 km they probably won't bother, just send one person per street to find out and report back. Even then, the government would just have to say, keep calm. Thats all they can do.

          If the gas pipes still work than you could use those and flames to ignite the stove and cook food. Additionally you can also create a fire to cook your food on if you've kept gasoline or matches (or more rarely, the ability to use flint rock to actually start fires)
          I heard a story here at uni about a guy who, when the power was out just waited for it to come back on to eat. People are going to refuse to cook any other way and resort to stealing simple food from others. Yes we would make a fire and cook our meat, but we would have to cook it all and it wouldn't last too long after that.

          This is why price tags exist; people need to know how much things cost, otherwise there'd be lots of instances where they'd bring the item to a cashier or a scanner just to know how much it would cost. though there'd be no way to figure out the global demand for prices during a blackout, he can still locally modify prices by changing the price tag; though unfairness does play some part here.

          I understand if they didn't let people in but for not knowing how to know and add prices, doubtful. Riots usually start randomly, either out of anger or due to some issue where someone isn't getting the help they need and the people just join in because hey, if one guy is doing it, why can't we? I can't exactly pinpoint which riots become logical (as in for survival) or senseless (just random looting without any survival purpose whatsoever.) but the riot mentality exists.
          Yes but the cashier is either tasked with walking to check the prices, writing down all the prices in the store and then have to manually add them up on the spot (the average person is terrible at such a thing) or just take the customers word on the price. The second people start having to pay $50/litre water they will get desperate, push each other and the riot has begun.

          I still doubt that the blackout would cause them to loot and riot; unless there was something that drove them over the edge but that would have to be extremely sudden in a coordinated world like this.
          In my hometown, a massive storm blew in and cut off the power, within seconds, people were knocking down an old security guard, grabbing food and running for it. People love getting something for nothing, and generally take the opportunity to do so.


          An example of how the government/food stores would cease to work after long: A store is selling corn, they normally get in three crates on horse and cart taking two weeks between shipments, suddenly refugees, fleeing the bigger cities arrive, willing to sell their gold and other items for food. The store owner would need to wait four weeks for food, by then people have died of starvation. We rely on communication more than electricity to get things done, without it, we'd need to train a lots of messenger pigeons....unfortunately hungry people have eaten all the pigeons.

          Comment


            #50
            Originally posted by Ukko View Post
            You seem to think its the same as a simple power cut. My laptop, phone, MP3 player and everything else i own that runs on batteries, still work during a power cut. Cars and backup generators still work. Planes falling from the sky (living near an airport, thats something i'd notice) isnt something that happens during a power cut and anyone with half a brain could tell that something is seriously wrong if all that started happening; not simply believe it a local blackout.
            Even if the people noticed the planes falling from the sky (which would be rare unless the area was a popular airplane destination), they would still think it's local. Hell they would even try to find out whether or not other cities have the same thing happening to them.

            Originally posted by Ukko View Post
            Less efficient? As with governments, they (emergency services, people in general etc) wouldnt know where to go to help, or what to help with. Nothing works.
            That doesn't mean there are ways to help out, hence the reason why there are a equivalent amount of ways to help without using technology.

            Originally posted by Ukko View Post
            How are firemen to get to fires and put them out?
            Without electricity there would be no lights, no lights means the ability to see natural light (especially stars) better, hence the ability to notice fires.

            Or they could place up a tower and use signals; I mean people have used signals without electricity by using fire and mirrors...

            Originally posted by Ukko View Post
            How are hospitals going to function without any power? Especially at night.
            They still have the supplies to do so, they just don't have the ability to detect a heartbeat or even do complex operational stuff. (making it much more difficult but not impossible.)

            Originally posted by Ukko View Post
            How are the police or military going to keep control when they have no way of knowing where the trouble is, or have the means to get there in anything close to reasonable time?
            No electricity also means no noise therefore noises (especially riot noises) would be more noticeable to the police; and the police have the means, it's called running. Police are usually fast on their feat, not letting up until either the other person tires out or they do; which for the police officer is more rare.

            Or they could borrow horses from the populace.

            Same thing I said about the tower applies here.

            Originally posted by Ukko View Post
            Same goes for ambulances. They would probably kill to simply be "less efficient".
            Or they could adapt to the situation and carry a medical kit that would support them for a few hours with quick fix surgery while they carried them to a hospital.

            Originally posted by Ukko View Post
            Governments can govern now because they have the means to do so, take away that means and they cease to govern.
            So how did the governments govern in the olden days without technology and electricity? Saying that the government needs this stuff is an overstatement, I mean there are governments that don't even rely on technology.

            Originally posted by Ukko View Post
            How would you hear from them?
            Making their voice as loud as possible, organizing meetings; they can still organize the populace and try to manage the situation you know.

            Originally posted by Ukko View Post
            Effective, efficient communication would be needed to organize such a meeting. The whole city or town (unless very small) wouldnt know of this meeting, and no one would know what was wrong. Local governments are useless enough already.
            There is word of mouth and things such as posters and flyers; just because there isn't internet or radio or even TV doesn't mean there can't be a way to let people know about these meetings.

            They don't need to know what's wrong, they just need to be reassured.


            Originally posted by Ukko View Post
            And what happens to the pipelines when SCADA goes offline?
            Pipeline operation.
            Manual operation? Surely they'd think of such a situation since the system is suspectable to power loses. (for both primary and backup)

            Originally posted by Ukko View Post
            How are people going to pay exactly? Withdraw money from the bank?
            Yes, ATMs and Banks have cash and it may be less difficult if they kept some form of written account information with them; otherwise it's going to be difficult.

            Cos they're gonna need cash, and lots of it.[/QUOTE]
            Aware but still... they don't need that much cash.

            Originally posted by Ukko View Post
            Cards are no good anymore. Tills wont work either.
            True for cash, not true for cash registers since the bottom part can be opened but calculations would have to be done on paper.

            Originally posted by Ukko View Post
            Riots and looting will ensue. Tempers will flare. People will want to "defend" there own and "protect" whats theirs. Mob rule.
            I doubt that people would want to defend their own but you are right in that people will become agitated in this situation.

            Originally posted by Ukko View Post
            People will loot and riot if they see the opportunity to do so. The recent UK riots are an example of that.
            Note when I say "over the edge", the LA riots happen because people were pissed off about the outcome of Rodney King, the UK riots happened because people were pissed off at their government, hell, they even rioted when the Lakers won.

            Riots start when something sets them over the edge, makes the entire group of people disregard everything and just do whatever they want whether it's organized or not.

            Originally posted by Ukko View Post
            Need for food, clean water, fule etc are perfect reasons for people to go over the edge. The event doesnt happen gradually, its sudden. Someone hits the off switch.
            That's true, but what I think will cause the riot will be one person complaining about the price and stock and then throwing an item and the entire group joining along; agitation causes riots and like I said before, they wouldn't riot suddenly if a sudden event happened; it has to build up to the point where tensions are high enough to cause riots.
            Back from the grave.

            Comment


              #51
              Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
              Even if the people noticed the planes falling from the sky (which would be rare unless the area was a popular airplane destination), they would still think it's local. Hell they would even try to find out whether or not other cities have the same thing happening to them.
              Rare?!?! There has been one and only one time when i can remember there not being any planes in the sky. And that was Iceland's fault. Planes are always flying overhead; anyone who thinks them falling from the sky is simply a local problem, is a fool.


              Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
              That doesn't mean there are ways to help out, hence the reason why there are a equivalent amount of ways to help without using technology.
              Hehe.

              Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
              Without electricity there would be no lights, no lights means the ability to see natural light (especially stars) better, hence the ability to notice fires.


              Or they could place up a tower and use signals; I mean people have used signals without electricity by using fire and mirrors...
              And push their fire engines there.

              Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
              They still have the supplies to do so, they just don't have the ability to detect a heartbeat or even do complex operational stuff. (making it much more difficult but not impossible.)
              And when all those supplies have been used on all the folks in the actual hospital who's lives are suddenly in danger when all the machines blink out (that would be their primary concern)? They take placebos to the rest of us?


              Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
              No electricity also means no noise therefore noises (especially riot noises) would be more noticeable to the police; and the police have the means, it's called running. Police are usually fast on their feat, not letting up until either the other person tires out or they do; which for the police officer is more rare.

              Or they could borrow horses from the populace.
              Running. They can get there in time to see empty shops and burned out buildings. Police dont run miles in their riot gear. As for the military, it'd be interesting to see how they manage to get half our armed forces back from the desert.

              You seem to think every one in the military or police can ride, that all the horse around are trained for riot situations and that there are enough horse to go around. The horse owners might be inclined to keep them for themselves to use.

              Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
              Or they could adapt to the situation and carry a medical kit that would support them for a few hours with quick fix surgery while they carried them to a hospital.
              Lets hope no one needs help at night, or requires anything remotly complicated.

              Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
              So how did the governments govern in the olden days without technology and electricity? Saying that the government needs this stuff is an overstatement, I mean there are governments that don't even rely on technology.
              From Wiki.
              Year Population
              1625- 1,980
              1641- 50,000
              1688- 200,000
              1702- 270,000
              1715- 435,000
              1749- 1,000,000
              1754- 1,500,000
              1765- 2,200,000
              1775- 2,400,000

              The "olden days" cant be compared to today's 300 million people living in a fully industrialised and mechanised society. Today's government definitely does need this stuff.

              Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
              Making their voice as loud as possible, organizing meetings; they can still organize the populace and try to manage the situation you know.
              Shouting in a city full of frightened, panicked people. Useful.


              Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
              There is word of mouth and things such as posters and flyers; just because there isn't internet or radio or even TV doesn't mean there can't be a way to let people know about these meetings.
              Posters and flyers? Maybe in a small village.

              Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
              They don't need to know what's wrong, they just need to be reassured.
              Reassured by who? No one knows whats going on.

              Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
              Manual operation? Surely they'd think of such a situation since the system is suspectable to power loses. (for both primary and backup)
              Wasnt in the article. What about all the electronic locks and security?

              Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
              Yes, ATMs and Banks have cash and it may be less difficult if they kept some form of written account information with them; otherwise it's going to be difficult.
              You need to be able to get at the money in the banks vaults and ATM's. All the electronic security, key cards and what not.


              Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
              Aware but still... they don't need that much cash.
              If they want to stock up on food and water they do.


              Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
              I doubt that people would want to defend their own but you are right in that people will become agitated in this situation.
              Agitated, frightened, angry, looking for someone to blame (i can see idiots turning on Muslim neighbours), an us and them mentality.

              Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
              Note when I say "over the edge", the LA riots happen because people were pissed off about the outcome of Rodney King, the UK riots happened because people were pissed off at their government, hell, they even rioted when the Lakers won.
              The UK riots happened because idiots saw an opportunity and jumped on a bandwagon.

              Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
              Riots start when something sets them over the edge, makes the entire group of people disregard everything and just do whatever they want whether it's organized or not.
              It takes very little to set people over the edge.

              Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
              That's true, but what I think will cause the riot will be one person complaining about the price and stock and then throwing an item and the entire group joining along; agitation causes riots and like I said before, they wouldn't riot suddenly if a sudden event happened; it has to build up to the point where tensions are high enough to cause riots.
              Some would, and thats all it takes.
              sigpic

              Comment


                #52
                I think that people wont want to simply move back and start farming, people will form gangs and take what they want. There is nothing that any government could do, if they wanted the army they would have to send someone to get them, and by the time they managed to walk/ride back, it could all be over. Two police officers in a riot cannot call for backup, they would have no chance.


                Also: Revolution Wiki moved the wiki to its own home.

                Comment


                  #53
                  Ok... So Tim guinee will play in the second season of homeland as well.. courious on how it will conflict it with revolution
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Saw a preview for this...looks interesting.
                    sigpic

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Originally posted by LtColCarter View Post
                      Saw a preview for this...looks interesting.
                      I certainly think so too. I will definitely give this show a fair shot to impress me.
                      sigpic
                      MS - "Boy, wow that's a great question!"
                      "...phu...ah..."
                      "Anyone know what SENTIENT means???"
                      Sunday is my favorite day for two reasons - Football and The Walking Dead

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Originally posted by escyos View Post
                        First a politician would have to get to their building, meet with the other politicians, divide up tasks, get their aides to run these tasks out (its the city, there are no horse and carts roaming about).
                        Noted and this is where the difficulty part comes in but some places contain horses and there are bikes that they can use. (I can't believe I've forgotten about the bikes, the most simplistic transportation method yet.)

                        Originally posted by escyos View Post
                        You'd need a large area to aspeak at, but then people too would need the means to get there, if they have to walk 15 km they probably won't bother, just send one person per street to find out and report back.
                        I have walked 15 km (or 9 miles in US terms), there isn't any reason they can't do it though I would put less doubt into their unwillingness to do anything; there's nothing to do for them at home, they'd be standing around hopelessly and incidents usually bring out the most willing of aspects (such as the ability to do anything) so people will probably be willing to walk 15 miles if they don't have a bike or horse to take them there.

                        Originally posted by escyos View Post
                        I heard a story here at uni about a guy who, when the power was out just waited for it to come back on to eat. People are going to refuse to cook any other way and resort to stealing simple food from others.
                        They're going to refuse because they're unwilling of going back to the olden ways; something which I think humanity is capable of doing. I'm guessing the people behind Revolution thought the same way and thus gave the perception that humanity is so addicted to technology in the first scenes of the trailer.

                        Originally posted by escyos View Post
                        Yes we would make a fire and cook our meat, but we would have to cook it all and it wouldn't last too long after that.
                        You wouldn't have to cook all of your meat, you'd just have to make sure that your meat remains cold for as long as the environment where the meat is in remains cold, that means not leaving the door open for long amounts of time and having an organized fridge where you can easily reach anything that you want.

                        Certain types of wood are reignitable and if we don't have those then certainly we'd have plenty of wood to start a fire around.

                        Originally posted by escyos View Post
                        Yes but the cashier is either tasked with walking to check the prices, writing down all the prices in the store and then have to manually add them up on the spot (the average person is terrible at such a thing)
                        This is the reason why stores have aisles and the reason organization exists, if everything is unorganized and in one isle then not only would the cashiers have trouble but so would the customers; and the trusty pad and pencil is the most reliable thing humanity has to add prices.

                        Originally posted by escyos View Post
                        or just take the customers word on the price. The second people start having to pay $50/litre water they will get desperate, push each other and the riot has begun.
                        Noted.

                        Originally posted by escyos View Post
                        In my hometown, a massive storm blew in and cut off the power, within seconds, people were knocking down an old security guard, grabbing food and running for it. People love getting something for nothing, and generally take the opportunity to do so.
                        I still think people would unite together in a situation like this, I mean if everybody started rioting then it would lead them nowhere and they'd be in a worse predicament then they were now. Sure, they'll be idiots but the bond of a community is stronger then a bunch of rioters.

                        Originally posted by escyos View Post
                        An example of how the government/food stores would cease to work after long: A store is selling corn, they normally get in three crates on horse and cart taking two weeks between shipments, suddenly refugees, fleeing the bigger cities arrive, willing to sell their gold and other items for food. The store owner would need to wait four weeks for food, by then people have died of starvation. We rely on communication more than electricity to get things done, without it, we'd need to train a lots of messenger pigeons....unfortunately hungry people have eaten all the pigeons.
                        Well we have smoke signals, we have glare signals, we have the pony express, we have propulsion trains; we have ways to communicate that even though aren't as efficient as modern times, are still efficient enough.

                        Originally posted by Ukko View Post
                        Rare?!?! There has been one and only one time when i can remember there not being any planes in the sky. And that was Iceland's fault. Planes are always flying overhead; anyone who thinks them falling from the sky is simply a local problem, is a fool.
                        Where I live I barely see airplanes flying over, and I live near an international airport. For the public to think of planes flying out of the sky as a global event, there'd have to be the same number as the ones shown in the Revolution trailer (note, there were 6-7 planes up there all mostly close to each other.); otherwise one or two planes flying from the sky will be counted as a local event.

                        Originally posted by Ukko View Post
                        And push their fire engines there.
                        No, I doubt they'd push their fire engines there, all they'd need to carry is a pump to get the water, a really tall ladder and something to get them to the area quickly.

                        Originally posted by Ukko View Post
                        And when all those supplies have been used on all the folks in the actual hospital who's lives are suddenly in danger when all the machines blink out (that would be their primary concern)? They take placebos to the rest of us?
                        Medical science (and teaching) does not exclude herbal or natural treatments, if all of the pills (from major pharmaceutical companies) are used up then they can simply switch to stuff used from natural sources; additionally, the stuff that they use to sedate and disinfect also come naturally; such as alcohol. Plants have managed to serve many purposes for many years, I doubt they'd fail us when it comes to incidents like this.

                        Originally posted by Ukko View Post
                        Running. They can get there in time to see empty shops and burned out buildings. Police dont run miles in their riot gear.
                        But they still run, the best police officers manage to go on for miles just running; I have yet to see a top police officer run out of breath before the perk does.

                        Originally posted by Ukko View Post
                        As for the military, it'd be interesting to see how they manage to get half our armed forces back from the desert.
                        Easy, just send people to their bases and round them up (depending on whether or not their training includes the location of the base.) or send a hanglider and drop smoke flares on the locations where troops are found.

                        Originally posted by Ukko View Post
                        You seem to think every one in the military or police can ride, that all the horse around are trained for riot situations and that there are enough horse to go around.
                        Well they can ride them; I didn't say they'd be use for riot situations, just transportation only and horses are the same as cars, there are a limited amount of them unless they managed to create a horse breeding factory similar to a car manufacturing factory.

                        Originally posted by Ukko View Post
                        The horse owners might be inclined to keep them for themselves to use.
                        I have kept that in mind and anything might go their way, including questionable decisions which might harm rather then help.

                        Originally posted by Ukko View Post
                        Lets hope no one needs help at night
                        I know they can't be seen or it'd be tough to operate at night but it isn't a downside considering natrual sources of light and seeking help exist.

                        Originally posted by Ukko View Post
                        or requires anything remotly complicated.
                        Doctors have done complicated operations without machinery, it is possible but a lot harder without cameras to pinpoint, machines to detect heartbeats, drills to drill things (mechanical drills require a lot of work I admit) and an electrical shock machine to restart the heartbeat. It's not impossible but it's a lot harder to do.

                        Originally posted by Ukko View Post
                        The "olden days" cant be compared to today's 300 million people living in a fully industrialised and mechanised society.
                        The late 1800's had mechanized technology but certainly not to the level where it's fully advanced and automated (electricity was barely used in those days and communication still got through just fine.)

                        Early 1900's had gotten farther but it wasn't to the point where it revolutionized communications, people did just fine with what they had which were early radios, the mail system and signals.

                        Originally posted by Ukko View Post
                        Today's government definitely does need this stuff.
                        No they don't, they need it because it's easier; not because it's more efficient. I guess human nature will always abandon a typewriter for a modern top-of-the-line computer.

                        Originally posted by Ukko View Post
                        Shouting in a city full of frightened, panicked people. Useful.
                        They're not going to get more panicked if they hear yelling, just if they aren't reassured. (and that's considering the aftermath of the incident; not the initial start of it.)

                        Originally posted by Ukko View Post
                        Posters and flyers? Maybe in a small village.
                        I've seem them in a city and though they may be more efficient ways of communication, posters and flyers always seem to work out no matter what the size

                        Originally posted by Ukko View Post
                        Reassured by who? No one knows whats going on.
                        The city officials, they may not know what's going on but the public would love to hear that the officials will do everything that they can to manage the situation and to find out what's going on; and they'd also love to see it done too. (because the worst of incidents have always been managed by the government of the city, the quality of the management of the situation does vary though.

                        Originally posted by Ukko View Post
                        Wasnt in the article. What about all the electronic locks and security?
                        No fool would completely rely on electronic locks and security, what if a hacker from China comes in and messes up the entire system with a couple of keystrokes or what if both of the power systems fail (there is a chance that the secondary backup system could fail.); people would be complaining up the wazzo if there as a total system failure so there would have to be an analogue backup that can allow for manual operation of the system.

                        Originally posted by Ukko View Post
                        You need to be able to get at the money in the banks vaults and ATM's. All the electronic security, key cards and what not.
                        Again, not everything is fully electronically protected. (hence the reason we still have guards at the bank) and I've seen ATM's without any form of electronic security, just a really strong key lock that only the most experienced of lockpickers can pick.

                        Originally posted by Ukko View Post
                        If they want to stock up on food and water they do.
                        While the people who want to stock up on everything need tons of money, the people who think the situation is normal (which it will become over time) will use a normal amount of money; it seems mostly crazy to carry around loads of money because of the situation at hand. (unless the people who thought it was the end of the world outnumbered the normal and sane people.)

                        Originally posted by Ukko View Post
                        Agitated, frightened, angry, looking for someone to blame (i can see idiots turning on Muslim neighbours), an us and them mentality.
                        I'd doubt they'd be angry or looking for someone to blame but they would be agitated and frightened due to factors such as lack of electricity, lack of response, uncertainty and various changes they would have to make to their lives.
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                          #57
                          Originally posted by Zombies Rise from the Sea View Post
                          Noted and this is where the difficulty part comes in but some places contain horses and there are bikes that they can use. (I can't believe I've forgotten about the bikes, the most simplistic transportation method yet.)
                          In the middle of a city, there are no horses. Bikes can be used but not everyone has a bike.

                          I have walked 15 km (or 9 miles in US terms), there isn't any reason they can't do it though I would put less doubt into their unwillingness to do anything; there's nothing to do for them at home, they'd be standing around hopelessly and incidents usually bring out the most willing of aspects (such as the ability to do anything) so people will probably be willing to walk 15 miles if they don't have a bike or horse to take them there.
                          Yes but if you walked 15 km and were told that the power is out everywhere as far as they knew and told you to just look after yourself and go home you would get a little pissed off and demand to be given food or water for you trouble in coming in. And a few days later if asked to walk back in to hear the same thing you would just give up.

                          They're going to refuse because they're unwilling of going back to the olden ways; something which I think humanity is capable of doing. I'm guessing the people behind Revolution thought the same way and thus gave the perception that humanity is so addicted to technology in the first scenes of the trailer.
                          Yes because how often is the power out for weeks at a time? Never, people will just lay back and wait for something to happen.

                          You wouldn't have to cook all of your meat, you'd just have to make sure that your meat remains cold for as long as the environment where the meat is in remains cold, that means not leaving the door open for long amounts of time and having an organized fridge where you can easily reach anything that you want.
                          Perhaps, but lots of people would assume that their fridge or freezer would get warm very quickly and would cook things that needed to be cooked right away.

                          This is the reason why stores have aisles and the reason organization exists, if everything is unorganized and in one isle then not only would the cashiers have trouble but so would the customers; and the trusty pad and pencil is the most reliable thing humanity has to add prices.
                          Yes but if you go into a supermarket, they have thousands of items with different prices, you would need to write out EVERY price numerous times and give a copy to each cashier. Aisles and organization mean nothing if you need to look at each price individually. And someone would make a mistake and then get yelled at, claiming the price was something else.

                          I still think people would unite together in a situation like this, I mean if everybody started rioting then it would lead them nowhere and they'd be in a worse predicament then they were now. Sure, they'll be idiots but the bond of a community is stronger then a bunch of rioters.
                          Its called 'Panic'. People do stupid things when panicked. If you were told that food is low and you may not get some, you would panic a bit and when a riot breaks out, are you just going to let them take all the food and you have none?

                          Well we have smoke signals, we have glare signals, we have the pony express, we have propulsion trains; we have ways to communicate that even though aren't as efficient as modern times, are still efficient enough.
                          The average person wouldn't notice smoke or glare signals. Also if a cop showed up on a horse, would you immediately assume that they are a cop? Not sure what a propulsion train is, but there are few trains that don't operate on electricity still around and the ones that are arent on tracks. Plus the older ones have different gauges for the tracks and wont fit.

                          Yes people would eventually figure things out and get along, but not for a while and there would be tonnes of damage, a fire that breaks out in a city, does not have the benefit of being able of being put out by firemen as they cannot get their trucks to the fire or use electric pumps. Police cannot call for backup as their is no radio. Stores cannot order things in as their is no phone or internet. Governments would lose their power instantly, yes if they are properly organised then they could get things running eventually, but the damage would be too great for them to fix it.

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                            #58
                            Originally posted by escyos View Post
                            In the middle of a city, there are no horses. Bikes can be used but not everyone has a bike.
                            A big urban city maybe but still... Keep in mind that bikes are cheaper, don't require a license to drive and though may be slower can get you anywhere as long as stamina is concerned. IMO I think there are more people with bikes then there are with cars.

                            Originally posted by escyos View Post
                            Yes but if you walked 15 km and were told that the power is out everywhere as far as they knew and told you to just look after yourself and go home you would get a little pissed off and demand to be given food or water for you trouble in coming in. And a few days later if asked to walk back in to hear the same thing you would just give up.
                            I doubt that the government of a city would actually forsake the efforts the people went to get here, if they did that then there wouldn't be any sort of order. The government would probably try to institute plans to ration the food, make sure everybody gets proper education, make sure the streets are safe and make sure that temporary shelters for those who walked 15km are avaliable; they wouldn't stick with the whole "look after yourself, stay home" thing twice, that wouldn't get them anywhere.

                            Originally posted by escyos View Post
                            Yes because how often is the power out for weeks at a time? Never, people will just lay back and wait for something to happen.
                            If those people just lay back and wait then they're fools, and those who continue to wait while everybody has adapted are just tricking themselves. I understand what you're going for but I doubt people would just lay back and wait, human subconsciousness won't easily let them do that.

                            Originally posted by escyos View Post
                            Perhaps, but lots of people would assume that their fridge or freezer would get warm very quickly and would cook things that needed to be cooked right away.
                            This is why stuff like science and math is taught in schools, so we can understand how things work and be able to solve problems in life. Take for instance the freezer, it can retain it's internal temperature for some while because the molecules in there are speeding up (ie getting hotter) at a slower rate; introduce some particles from an outside environment and it speeds up even more (ie gets hot even faster) hence why we have to move quickly when deciding what to get out of the freezer. If people don't realize that anything that's self contained can retain anything (temperature, oxygen, chemicals, etc.) then how will they get anywhere in life?

                            Originally posted by escyos View Post
                            Yes but if you go into a supermarket, they have thousands of items with different prices, you would need to write out EVERY price numerous times and give a copy to each cashier. Aisles and organization mean nothing if you need to look at each price individually. And someone would make a mistake and then get yelled at, claiming the price was something else.
                            You can write down every price then replicate everything on an analog typewriter since all you have to do is type down the keys and though it may be hard to explain, the way of organization can help and people themselves can find ways to manage taking down all of the individual prices. Think of it this way, if someone is buying peas then the cashier can look under canned goods, vegetables, peas and find what they're looking for; I mean the only thing that costs different is the different brands, it would be easier if they managed to eliminate brands to a point where everything is streamlined but since brands would still exist in the blackout, it'd be harder.

                            Originally posted by escyos View Post
                            Its called 'Panic'. People do stupid things when panicked. If you were told that food is low and you may not get some, you would panic a bit and when a riot breaks out, are you just going to let them take all the food and you have none?
                            Naturally yes but still...

                            Originally posted by escyos View Post
                            The average person wouldn't notice smoke or glare signals.
                            They could be taught; I mean we still have tons of information on paper books and once they realize nothing will work, they'll have to adapt.

                            Originally posted by escyos View Post
                            Also if a cop showed up on a horse, would you immediately assume that they are a cop?
                            Yes...

                            Originally posted by escyos View Post
                            Not sure what a propulsion train is
                            Apologies, I was thinking about a train that requires manual labor to operate.

                            Originally posted by escyos View Post
                            but there are few trains that don't operate on electricity still around and the ones that are arent on tracks. Plus the older ones have different gauges for the tracks and wont fit.
                            That doesn't mean they can't put those trains back into service or even resume making those trains; they're mostly compatible with those train tracks to an extent and there are books on how to operate a steam engine train, it's not like the Amtrak trains are thinner then the current steam engine trains.

                            Originally posted by escyos View Post
                            Yes people would eventually figure things out and get along, but not for a while and there would be tonnes of damage, a fire that breaks out in a city, does not have the benefit of being able of being put out by firemen as they cannot get their trucks to the fire or use electric pumps.
                            Why would they need to get their trucks, as I said before, a ladder, hose and manual pump would do just fine; the method of transportation is in question but they don't need trucks to get them there or put out a fire.

                            Originally posted by escyos View Post
                            Police cannot call for backup as their is no radio.
                            Noted but they can quickly learn to bring additional backup just in case like the old days.

                            Originally posted by escyos View Post
                            Stores cannot order things in as their is no phone or internet.
                            There is mail, I don't know of stores that still use mail to order things but mail can be used to order things.

                            Originally posted by escyos View Post
                            Governments would lose their power instantly, yes if they are properly organised then they could get things running eventually, but the damage would be too great for them to fix it.
                            No they wouldn't, they would lose the technology but they wouldn't lose the power (especially not because fire departments and stories rely so much on phones, internet and trucks and can't adapt to different situations.); the only thing they have to worry about is finding ways to adapt to the old times but still managing to be efficient.

                            Personally if I were the government I would just be starting at my powered-off HDTV waiting for the power to suddenly come back on so I can resume watching that Bugs Bunny cartoon I was watching at the time it went off, because what else would I do?
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                              #59
                              There is one thing that is overlooked though - its a tv show where such a thing happens, therefore in the show's reality, it can happen.

                              Comment


                                #60
                                Originally posted by escyos View Post
                                There is one thing that is overlooked though - its a tv show where such a thing happens, therefore in the show's reality, it can happen.
                                Yes... The entire electricity turning off can happen in a show (or a show's reality) but stuff like the stuff a people do in the initial hours of the blackout can't be easily justified as simply being a part of the show's reality. From what I've seen on the trailer, they did make it seem like everything would collapse just so they could create the show's reality but I doubt they would completely ignore human nature to such a point where it'd seem like they'd be incapable of working together or even adapting to new situations quickly.
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