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    #46
    Star Wars is a space opera -- it doesn't do character development well in general. And yet, I love it.
    Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum

    Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1

    Comment


      #47
      You know you people don't have to wait for me to do reviews
      Throne For a Loss

      This is rare Farscape form. We really got two stories that climax at the end of the show. We'll start with the first story. We'll start with the first one. I remember when I first saw this episode I thought it was a rip off of the Stargate episode Upgrades. Research shows that this Farscape episode actually comes first. This is just a continuation of the theme of previous Actually its a theme of most of S1. This episode is again about the bonding of the team. Mostly about John, Aeryn, and D'Argo. In some ways I think we may have taken a step back from the last episode. Notice Zhann's frustration with the idea of Crichton having a plan and how Aeryn says he is almost as clumsy as Luxans. That aside I think if it was me, I would have abandoned Rygel. I mean that is the whole point he took the crystal from Moya's propulsion system. It was an insurance policy. Makes me wonder why they even brought him back in the first place at the end of the episode. He is the reason they got in the whole mess in the first place. Changing gears, I loved the opening where John and Aeryn have to knock D'Argo unconscious while he wear the gauntlet. You want creative SQ? I'll give you creative. I thought the venting to accelerate D'Argo forward so he becomes unconscious was creative. The rest of the main story is just us following the Talvelks. I think the gauntlet is used to highlit what is angering D'Argo and Aeryn. They both anger because of their situations. If you think about the people that is angering them is right in front of them. I mean Aeryn punched John before she even had the gauntlet on. Its not surprising she is mad at him given how he is responsible in some way for losing her Peacekeeper status. Otherwise its just a boring search for Rygel. So this raises the question of why is John not mad? We don't see him really get angry like the others. I think this is because his life on Earth was cushy compared to Aeryn and D'Argo. Before we move on to Rygel viewpoint, I wan to say I love seeing D'Argo sword change to a gun. I found myself bored with the Rygel in the alien prison. I don't need 10 minutes of seeing Rygel gloat of how great he is. It seemed uneeded. The only saving grace is the end when gauntlet John and the Talveks kick Rygel in the bag. Rygel's selfishness annoys me a lot of times. I don't want to know what he did in that bathroom. The second part is the story of how Zhaan helps that Talvek deal with addiction. I for one am surprised more of Zhaan wasn't censored when they showed her naked. This episode highlights why I love Zhaan so much. She had the peace and empathy to want to help with his drug addiction. After all I think we can agree that the gauntlet is a drug. At the same time when Zhaan has been fooled, she is more than capable of knocking the guy. It shows both sides of Zhaan to me She cares but will knock you out when you do something stupid. I liked the ending of how everything Zhaan did to help was undone. You can feel her pain at the episodes end. I will close to say how I was annoyed with John's pop culture references thinking everyone knows what they mean
      Originally posted by aretood2
      Jelgate is right

      Comment


        #48
        Originally posted by squirrely1 View Post
        you are just hung up on the word creative cuz it's too closely related to art.
        No. I just think you overuse the word
        Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
        Doesn't John make a note about that - how some people keep animals as pets and others eat them. To Zhaan.
        I thought the context was different

        I guess, that's what happens when you're a Doctor Who fan - you get them confused.
        You would be sharper if you didn't watch Doctor Who like me
        If you look at any of the other CG I'm surprised Rygel comes out this flawed. Although, there's a difference between backdrops I guess and character animation. The latter much harder and more difficult to accomplish, even this day and each.
        Because they are smaller?

        Those were the days.
        Life was better back then
        Originally posted by squirrely1 View Post
        @Jel...I didn't notice you had responded to my other stuff... I thought it was all FH's responses. Just wanted to point out that I do like Star Wars actually. I can't call myself a true Sci Fi Geek and not like Star Wars. BUT... I don't like the writing and character development alot of times. I think they cheat and take the easy way out. Of course in a movie of only 2 hours duration you have to speed up character development to a point unlike when you have a TV series you can give nice character arcs that take longer and they can go through a much harrowing journey. In a way that makes Television series' way more compelling when it comes to great characters IMO.
        Its not my fault you are too slow. I was slightly over the character limit in the first post so I just copied your last post. I agree with you analysis but I don't care for Star Wars a lot. I don't mind the movies but in no rush to see them
        Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
        Star Wars is a space opera -- it doesn't do character development well in general. And yet, I love it.
        Its just mindless action. Yeah I said it. Bring it on your fanboys
        Originally posted by aretood2
        Jelgate is right

        Comment


          #49
          Throne for a Loss

          Before I start, I held a Eurovision Party ( kinda like a musical Superbowl for the US people) yesterday. This means two things:

          a.) I had to skip the Exodus from Genesis rewatch, but I’ve enjoyed reading all the observations in this thread; and
          b.) I am still quite hungover.

          Consequently what follows may lack observation and coherent sentences. However , here we go... ‘Throne for a Loss’.

          From an editing pov: there are a lot of very nice moving shots in this episode. Plenty of action, both interior and exterior, particular for a series 1 episode. I think I spotted several shots that are used in the title credits right up to the end of series 4.

          Similarly (for the shippers out there) Aeryn and John seem to be constantly falling into/onto each other with very little respect for personal boundaries. Always useful when you’re trying to mash something together.

          The blue leaves thing on the planet look cool. I wonder how they did that? I’d guess filter or something in the grading. I’ve tried to have a go copying the effect it with my WMM but the best I’ve come up with still turns everything slightly tinted. Hey ho.

          Like Jelgate, I enjoyed the fact that the alien bloke goes back to his addiction at the end, rejecting Zahn’s teachings. Gives it a nice little twist.

          Now, my favourite scene: the ‘don’t you ‘tch’ me' scene. For me this is what’s different about Farscape: characters come before plot (with all the benefits and disadvantages for a series that entails). Characters remember what’s happened to them from scene to scene and episode to episode.

          Most shows would play Aeryn knocking out Crichton to get him down the planet (and move the plot on) totally comedic. Whilst Farscape as a show keeps the tone light, Crichton as a character is deadly serious. Of course he wouldn’t be okay with her shanghaiing him! Of course he wouldn’t just ‘forget about’ it in the next scene. He’s going to be pissed off.

          Crichton ‘calling out’ Aeryn is also interesting in that (at least more than most shows) it starts to treat violence toward a man as it would violence toward a woman. If you switch their genders (but not their backstory), a TV show wouldn’t have a love-interest male peacekeeper casually hit and knock out a heroine Crichton… not at least without a reference to a ‘serious talk’ being needed.

          I also think that ‘Wyle E Cayote could have come up with a better plan than that’ could be the official Moya crew motto for the next four years.
          Last edited by Bluemeany; 15 May 2016, 02:16 PM.

          Comment


            #50
            Originally posted by jelgate View Post
            I will close to say how I was annoyed with John's pop culture references thinking everyone knows what they mean
            I’ve always viewed Crichton’s pop culture references as kind of a psychological comfort blanket.

            Part verbal reminder of something from home to anchor himself. But mainly like little acts of revenge.

            He doesn’t understand what all the aliens are talking about half the time and he is trying to learn all the terms (i.e. ‘Tavleks’). Generally the rest of Moya get irritated that he doesn’t just know the stuff they do.

            It’s only fair to make them as confused by what he is saying and expect that they have to learn some of his references in return.

            Comment


              #51
              Originally posted by Bluemeany View Post
              Throne for a Loss

              Before I start, I held a Eurovision Party ( kinda like a musical Superbowl for the US people) yesterday. This means two things:

              a.) I had to skip the Exodus from Genesis rewatch, but I’ve enjoyed reading all the observations in this thread; and
              Don't make yourself a slave to the schedule. We all have lives outside the rewatch and GW. Well except SQ of course. She is a teacher. I understand that not everyone can watch an episode on an assigned date. If you are a few days behind. That's fine. The schedule is for people who join not to get ahead of themselves.
              b.) I am still quite hungover.
              You should come to the Cantina
              Consequently what follows may lack observation and coherent sentences. However , here we go ‘Throne for a Loss’.

              From an editing pov: there are a lot of very nice moving shots in this episode. Plenty of action, both interior and exterior, particular for a series 1 episode. I think I spotted several shots that are used in the title credits right up to the end of series 4.
              I liked the one from the back of Moya when it was clear its propulsion was longer usable
              Similarly (for the shippers out there) Aeryn and John seem to be constantly falling into/onto each other with very little respect for personal boundaries. Always useful when you’re trying to mash something together.
              Don't give SQ any ideas. I don't believe it has to do with shipping. They are both in alien situations. John more than Aeryn but lets not forget the foreigness of being separated from your people
              The blue leaves thing on the planet look cool. I wonder how they did that? I’d guess filter or something in the grading. I’ve tried to have a go copying the effect it with my WMM but the best I’ve come up with still turns everything slightly tinted. Hey ho.
              It could be a special effect instead of a visual one. You know the things the crew changes at the location instead of with the computer.
              Like Jelgate, I enjoyed the fact that the alien bloke goes back to his addiction at the end, rejecting Zahn’s teachings. Gives it a nice little twist.
              I don't like that who rejected Zhaan's help. The somberness Zhaan feels is very reflective of her character.
              Now, my favourite scene: the ‘don’t you ‘tch’ me' scene. For me this is what’s different about Farscape: characters come before plot (with all the benefits and disadvantages for a series that entails). Characters remember what’s happened to them from scene to scene and episode to episode.

              Most shows would play Aeryn knocking out Crichton to get him down the planet (and move the plot on) totally comedic. Whilst Farscape as a show keeps the tone light, Crichton as a character is deadly serious. Of course he wouldn’t be okay with her shanghaiing him! Of course he wouldn’t just ‘forget about’ it in the next scene. He’s going to be pissed off.
              The irony is I don't recall his kidnapping ever being brought up after he was in Aeryn's prowler.
              Crichton ‘calling out’ Aeryn is also interesting in that (at least more than most shows) it starts to treat violence toward a man as it would violence toward a woman. If you switch their genders (but not their backstory), a TV show wouldn’t have a love-interest male peacekeeper casually hit and knock out a heroine!Crichton… not at least without a reference to a ‘serious talk’ being needed.
              You can even apply that to the real not just TV. Society is going to be leinient to a woman beating a man. A fact that annoys me about our legal system but that's not relevant to this thread
              I also think that ‘Wyle E Cayote could have come up with a better plan than that’ could be the official Moya crew motto for the next four years.
              I recall Rygel saying something about the whole crew being insane in a later episode

              Originally posted by Bluemeany View Post
              See, I’ve always viewed Crichton’s pop culture references as kind of a psychological comfort blanket.

              Part verbal reminder of something from home to anchor himself. But mainly like little acts of revenge.

              He doesn’t understand what all the aliens are talking about half the time and he is trying to learn all the terms (i.e. ‘Tavleks’). Generally the rest of Moya get irritated that he doesn’t just know the stuff they do.

              It’s only fair to make them as confused by what he is saying and expect that they have to learn some of his references in return.
              I can understand that but when he gets annoyed that no one understand his references, I get annoyed. You're on the other side of the galaxy. How the frell are that suppose to know what you mean?
              Originally posted by aretood2
              Jelgate is right

              Comment


                #52
                Wow love all the insights so far! Even "hung over" Bluemeany's! *giggles* so here we go..

                Throne For A Loss

                In the beginning....hmmm something else starts this way...*scratches head and shrugs* Oh well....In the beginning what really struck me was just how cranky everyone was and immediately I remembered the 4 stages of Team Building (Forming, Storming, Norming and Performing)....(which was very prevalent at the time this was in production) and it appears they are using this. The team up to now has been newly formed (only 3 or so eps in we can figure they haven't been together too long) so this is quite natural that the team is moving into the "STORMING" phase. They are getting on each others nerves, they are starting to get a tad selfish and I noticed as Jel pointed out they are regressing back somewhat into their "oh Crichton is a neanderthal" mentality. So to me this was obvious that the team at this point was struggling with finding a way to put aside their differences and truly gel. Here is what I truly loved about this ep:

                Drugs, Warriors and Weapons...oh my!

                The other very obvious theme in this ep to me was the struggle for who had the bigger *ahem* member ....If you know what I mean Typical struggle for the Alpha "male" and Aeryn is not off the board, but keep in mind this is a running theme between D'argo and Crichton (early on in this series)...each of them are really trying to flex their muscles to one another to determine who is going to be the true leader of this group. I think this is why D'Argo seems so angry in these early eps. John just uses his brain and tries to out think and out wit D....but D is mainly more about showing how superior his brute strength is. Thinking that would make him the better leader. So this brings me to his Qualta blade. Love that weapon too Jel and how it was converted in this ep. But again this has been something D'argo has been "stroking" LOL literally throughout the eps and we finally get to see this thing in action.

                Aeryn too is all about the brute strength in this ep. It really is framed nicely since we just came off 2 rather peaceful and symbiotic seeking eps that quite naturally this string of violence brings about a refreshing change and allows the opportunity to see our more battle ready characters flex their warrior muscles. But even before she puts on the gauntlet she is bound and determined, despite John's insistence that she take along her rifle. And then upon meeting the motley Tevleks John is shocked he has (aside from the warring PK's) miscalculated and is standing face to face with a brutal society. I liked that whole encounter and John's surprise. Good thing Aeryn brought along that Rifle! But my point is Aeryn is naturally already battle ready as D is ...ready for a good fight. And the gauntlet for them really intensifies this.

                So the natural warrior is heightened when D or even Aeryn for that matter put on the gautlet. Notice it didn't really affect John that way. He didn't get as "angry" with it on as Aeryn and D did I think mainly because John isn't naturally more hell bent on the warrior behavior like Aeryn and D'argo are.
                Speaking of the guantlet, I loved that weapon BTW and again the creative concepts the writing team comes up with for these eps. Which brings me to the Drugs part and probably the only thing that truly bothered me in this ep. Now jel don't go all crazy on me....but Zhaan actually bugged me in this ep. *ducks flying objects* the reason is twofold:

                1. Zhaan I think at times is too trusting to a fault. I knew the moment she was called away and that Tavlek said he would find his way back, I knew that wouldn't end well and sure enough. I call plot device on that as we wouldn't have had a chance to see Zhaan's strong side as in her brute strength there we go again that word just keeps cropping up in this ep. But again, I found it annoying that she would saunter off so easily to leave her ward just hanging out with full run of the ship.

                2. Zhaan seems to be hell bent on forcing her ward to get clean and stay clean. We all know that it's hard to help an addict unless the addict wants your help. It's clear this is the way of the Tavlek and by Zhaan's insistence on him coming around and kicking his habit and changing she was assuming that he wanted that and that it would be better for him. Whatever happened to live and let live and do not interfere...oh wait that's Star Trek....sorry But again, I just think she was trying to force her own ways onto this species.

                But it's not all bad...jel don't fear....cuz I loved how they exchanged their nakedness. This was brilliant in that it again supported the theme that "I have bigger balls than you" type thing. Or "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" I really liked how this ep was all about raw power and stripping away quite literally at all the things that characters can tend to hide behind.

                So at the end of the day the drug, the clothes even the weapons themselves can be an extension of the character which can give them a sort of identity but then remove that and you get a glimpse of another side of them and they were all about comparing that to each other in this ep.

                Aeryn and John's bickering
                @Bluemeany-Thanks for pointing out that Aeryn/John shippers would love this ep because they were falling all over each other and touching each other. Then you have D'argo's Don't touch me! It was a lovely contrast. I also loved how John and Aeryn are bickering like a married couple. LOL ANd it's interesting that you would compare the gender roles in violence towards each other. I also liked how John was not going to let her off the hook. And I wish he would've had it in him (if she hadn't knocked him out) to punch her right back. I loved that about Battlestar Galactica with Starbuck and Apollo....she got just as much as she dished out and rightly so.

                But back to John and Aeryn...I like how they are the sort of barometer of the team and when they fight or are bickering it sort of effects the whole team. I enjoy them trying to come to terms with the (albeit slight at this point) attraction to one another and how that is effecting them and their relationship and that maybe they are denying any feelings they may be having and or even replacing them with frustration or anger.


                @Jel-your point about leaving Rygel. Come on he just saved them in the last ep, they couldn't leave him....well if it were up to the rest of the crew maybe but John and Zhaan wouldn't hear of it. Besides he had the crystal and if you noticed when John finally got the bagged Rygel he had swallowed the crystal so he had to take him back or maybe even at that point John may have even left him there.


                Finally the ending was bittersweet but I liked it that Zhaan's efforts didn't pay off with regard to sobering up the Tavlek. And I think that was way more realistic and another reason why I love this show because at the end of the day everything isn't all tied up in a nice neat little package. It shows that life is messy even in the other galaxies and you can't force others to do what you want them to do just because you think it's better for them. I think that was a great learning experience for Zhaan too and shows that while she is very loving and strong, she also fails and takes her failures to heart. It's the failures of these characters that many times makes them so charming.
                Originally posted by jelgate
                This brings much pain but SQ is right

                Comment


                  #53
                  Originally posted by squirrely1 View Post
                  I really liked how this ep was all about raw power and stripping away quite literally at all the things that characters can tend to hide behind.

                  So at the end of the day the drug, the clothes even the weapons themselves can be an extension of the character which can give them a sort of identity but then remove that and you get a glimpse of another side of them and they were all about comparing that to each other in this ep.
                  Ooo yes, that’s a good thought. I hadn’t picked up on that:

                  Aeryn, D’Argo and (to a lesser extent) Crichton get testosterone-fueled power and aggression by putting an item of clothing on.
                  Zahn tries to control the situation by using attraction/vulnerability and taking everything off.

                  Kind of mirrors what you were saying about where John & Aeryn’s relationship is at this point: there are two modes they are switching between: aggression and frustration on the one hand, and attraction on the other… both more to do with hormones than actually conscious choices.

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Originally posted by jelgate View Post
                    Because they are smaller?
                    Because backdrops rarely need much moving.

                    Originally posted by Bluemeany View Post
                    Before I start, I held a Eurovision Party ( kinda like a musical Superbowl for the US people) yesterday.
                    I watched until Israel came on and then switched back to Farscape.
                    So I watched my country start the show and then sorta lingered during dinner, and then moved on.

                    Originally posted by Bluemeany View Post
                    The blue leaves thing on the planet look cool. I wonder how they did that? I’d guess filter or something in the grading. I’ve tried to have a go copying the effect it with my WMM but the best I’ve come up with still turns everything slightly tinted. Hey ho.
                    From the looks of it, I'd say that they spray painted the plants on site. I think itt's an actual effect done by the prop/set department.

                    +++++

                    Throne For A Loss

                    So, the Tafloids are in the business of kidnap-and-ransom. And getting addicted to methamphetemines or PCP, but without the dellusions.

                    Zhaan tries to get one of them clean, while John and Aeryn have to go and free the little furball as he took an insurance policy not to be left behind (on any occasion).

                    Aeryn and D'Argo wearing the glove fuels their warrior side -- John's a geek and thus he becomes a superhero. And then it fails, and he's left to his wits to safe the situation from becoming ugly. Rygel gets kicked a lot and stuck in mud, his least favorite thing to be around.
                    Aeryn and D'Argo compare headaches.
                    Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum

                    Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post

                      From the looks of it, I'd say that they spray painted the plants on site. I think itt's an actual effect done by the prop/set department.

                      +++++

                      .
                      Blimey! It must have taken them ages to spray them all. It was like the entire forest. Unless they are dropping the paint from the air napalm style . How the hell do you get environmental permission for that? Hopefully they used something non-toxic....

                      I'm still leaning towards it being a filter trick done in the edit you know... but I'll be damned if I can copy it or figure out how it was done.

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Originally posted by squirrely1 View Post
                        Wow love all the insights so far! Even "hung over" Bluemeany's! *giggles* so here we go..
                        Yes we know you are a mindless shipper
                        Throne For A Loss

                        In the beginning....hmmm something else starts this way...*scratches head and shrugs* Oh well....In the beginning what really struck me was just how cranky everyone was and immediately I remembered the 4 stages of Team Building (Forming, Storming, Norming and Performing)....(which was very prevalent at the time this was in production) and it appears they are using this. The team up to now has been newly formed (only 3 or so eps in we can figure they haven't been together too long) so this is quite natural that the team is moving into the "STORMING" phase. They are getting on each others nerves, they are starting to get a tad selfish and I noticed as Jel pointed out they are regressing back somewhat into their "oh Crichton is a neanderthal" mentality. So to me this was obvious that the team at this point was struggling with finding a way to put aside their differences and truly gel. Here is what I truly loved about this ep:
                        I kind of like the friction that was caught up in the early season. I look at how much John and D'Argo are rivals in the early season. Then look at them in S4 where I find them as close friends. I had a friend in real life like that
                        Drugs, Warriors and Weapons...oh my!

                        The other very obvious theme in this ep to me was the struggle for who had the bigger *ahem* member ....If you know what I mean Typical struggle for the Alpha "male" and Aeryn is not off the board, but keep in mind this is a running theme between D'argo and Crichton (early on in this series)...each of them are really trying to flex their muscles to one another to determine who is going to be the true leader of this group. I think this is why D'Argo seems so angry in these early eps. John just uses his brain and tries to out think and out wit D....but D is mainly more about showing how superior his brute strength is. Thinking that would make him the better leader. So this brings me to his Qualta blade. Love that weapon too Jel and how it was converted in this ep. But again this has been something D'argo has been "stroking" LOL literally throughout the eps and we finally get to see this thing in action.
                        At the risk of angering the feminists I kind of think Aeryn was vieing for the alpha male. I cite how Aeryn punches John when she argues. I find Aeryn just as angry as much as D'Argo. A lot of that on both sides is because of the gauntlet. D'Argo can use his brain as well as we have seen through the show. I think the gauntlet is largely to blame in how it brings out aggression.
                        Aeryn too is all about the brute strength in this ep. It really is framed nicely since we just came off 2 rather peaceful and symbiotic seeking eps that quite naturally this string of violence brings about a refreshing change and allows the opportunity to see our more battle ready characters flex their warrior muscles. But even before she puts on the gauntlet she is bound and determined, despite John's insistence that she take along her rifle. And then upon meeting the motley Tevleks John is shocked he has (aside from the warring PK's) miscalculated and is standing face to face with a brutal society. I liked that whole encounter and John's surprise. Good thing Aeryn brought along that Rifle! But my point is Aeryn is naturally already battle ready as D is ...ready for a good fight. And the gauntlet for them really intensifies this.
                        I think a lot of that is the Peacekeeper upbring Aeryn had. If we believe the crew of Moya, Peackeepers only respond to brute strength.
                        So the natural warrior is heightened when D or even Aeryn for that matter put on the gautlet. Notice it didn't really affect John that way. He didn't get as "angry" with it on as Aeryn and D did I think mainly because John isn't naturally more hell bent on the warrior behavior like Aeryn and D'argo are.
                        Speaking of the guantlet, I loved that weapon BTW and again the creative concepts the writing team comes up with for these eps. Which brings me to the Drugs part and probably the only thing that truly bothered me in this ep. Now jel don't go all crazy on me....but Zhaan actually bugged me in this ep. *ducks flying objects* the reason is twofold:
                        I kind of half agree with you. I position that its because John doesn't have as much anger for the gauntlet to intestify. I think its more of the environment. John wasn't a soldier or prisioner like D'Argo or Aeryn. He has had a relatively peaceful life. Its okay SQ. I respect you being wrong.
                        1. Zhaan I think at times is too trusting to a fault. I knew the moment she was called away and that Tavlek said he would find his way back, I knew that wouldn't end well and sure enough. I call plot device on that as we wouldn't have had a chance to see Zhaan's strong side as in her brute strength there we go again that word just keeps cropping up in this ep. But again, I found it annoying that she would saunter off so easily to leave her ward just hanging out with full run of the ship.
                        I always interpreted that as a test on Zhaan's part. She walked away to see if the Tavlek really had beaten the addiction. He failed obviously. We already have seen how strong Zhaan is before that scene
                        2. Zhaan seems to be hell bent on forcing her ward to get clean and stay clean. We all know that it's hard to help an addict unless the addict wants your help. It's clear this is the way of the Tavlek and by Zhaan's insistence on him coming around and kicking his habit and changing she was assuming that he wanted that and that it would be better for him. Whatever happened to live and let live and do not interfere...oh wait that's Star Trek....sorry But again, I just think she was trying to force her own ways onto this species.
                        Zhaan is a healer. We see that in multiple episodes. Addiction in simplest terms is a disease so Zhaan want to cure him of a disease. You are half correct SQ. You can't cure him unless he want help. I would point out most people with mental disease don't want to be cured. A big part of psychology is getting people to want help. So I don't think its that unreasonable that Zhaan was trying to get the Tavloids (John moment) to want to get better
                        But it's not all bad...jel don't fear....cuz I loved how they exchanged their nakedness. This was brilliant in that it again supported the theme that "I have bigger balls than you" type thing. Or "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" I really liked how this ep was all about raw power and stripping away quite literally at all the things that characters can tend to hide behind.
                        More than anything it gave an insight into Delvan culture. I surprised the censors allowed it
                        So at the end of the day the drug, the clothes even the weapons themselves can be an extension of the character which can give them a sort of identity but then remove that and you get a glimpse of another side of them and they were all about comparing that to each other in this ep.
                        Such a concept is actually proven in the real world. Its like how you act different to your co-workers compared to your family
                        Aeryn and John's bickering
                        @Bluemeany-Thanks for pointing out that Aeryn/John shippers would love this ep because they were falling all over each other and touching each other. Then you have D'argo's Don't touch me! It was a lovely contrast. I also loved how John and Aeryn are bickering like a married couple. LOL ANd it's interesting that you would compare the gender roles in violence towards each other. I also liked how John was not going to let her off the hook. And I wish he would've had it in him (if she hadn't knocked him out) to punch her right back. I loved that about Battlestar Galactica with Starbuck and Apollo....she got just as much as she dished out and rightly so.
                        Meh. Shippers will see what the want to see. If you remove the fact Aeryn is a woman her fighting with John is not any different than the fighting with D'Argo
                        But back to John and Aeryn...I like how they are the sort of barometer of the team and when they fight or are bickering it sort of effects the whole team. I enjoy them trying to come to terms with the (albeit slight at this point) attraction to one another and how that is effecting them and their relationship and that maybe they are denying any feelings they may be having and or even replacing them with frustration or anger.
                        More shipper nonsense. I see no attraction at this point. Its the same as John interacting with all the character of him getting to know these people and their species.
                        @Jel-your point about leaving Rygel. Come on he just saved them in the last ep, they couldn't leave him....well if it were up to the rest of the crew maybe but John and Zhaan wouldn't hear of it. Besides he had the crystal and if you noticed when John finally got the bagged Rygel he had swallowed the crystal so he had to take him back or maybe even at that point John may have even left him there.
                        I don't see Rygel as the hero of the last episode. I believe I mentioned if Rygel didn't have the crystal in my review. If I didn't, I meant too.
                        Finally the ending was bittersweet but I liked it that Zhaan's efforts didn't pay off with regard to sobering up the Tavlek. And I think that was way more realistic and another reason why I love this show because at the end of the day everything isn't all tied up in a nice neat little package. It shows that life is messy even in the other galaxies and you can't force others to do what you want them to do just because you think it's better for them. I think that was a great learning experience for Zhaan too and shows that while she is very loving and strong, she also fails and takes her failures to heart. It's the failures of these characters that many times makes them so charming.
                        The ending scene is why I loved the ZHaan story. It was giving a realistic approach to addiction and it was bittersweet because you saw how it hurt Zhaan
                        Originally posted by Bluemeany View Post
                        Ooo yes, that’s a good thought. I hadn’t picked up on that:
                        That is what we are here for
                        Aeryn, D’Argo and (to a lesser extent) Crichton get testosterone-fueled power and aggression by putting an item of clothing on.
                        Zahn tries to control the situation by using attraction/vulnerability and taking everything off.
                        Why does everyone link testosterone to anger. Their are other ways to be angry. As for ZHaan, I think it was compassion to control the situation.
                        Kind of mirrors what you were saying about where John & Aeryn’s relationship is at this point: there are two modes they are switching between: aggression and frustration on the one hand, and attraction on the other… both more to do with hormones than actually conscious choices.
                        Don't see it. At this point they have no attraction to one another. All the characters on Moya have aggression and frusturation.
                        Originally posted by aretood2
                        Jelgate is right

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                          #57
                          Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
                          Because backdrops rarely need much moving.
                          But the ships do?

                          I watched until Israel came on and then switched back to Farscape.
                          So I watched my country start the show and then sorta lingered during dinner, and then moved on.
                          Where are your priorities, you hazmot.


                          From the looks of it, I'd say that they spray painted the plants on site. I think itt's an actual effect done by the prop/set department.
                          Didn't Stargate do something like that to disguise British Columbia forests?
                          +++++
                          Throne For A Loss

                          So, the Tafloids are in the business of kidnap-and-ransom. And getting addicted to methamphetemines or PCP, but without the dellusions.
                          Tavleks I think steroids would be a better analogy
                          Zhaan tries to get one of them clean, while John and Aeryn have to go and free the little furball as he took an insurance policy not to be left behind (on any occasion).

                          Aeryn and D'Argo wearing the glove fuels their warrior side -- John's a geek and thus he becomes a superhero. And then it fails, and he's left to his wits to safe the situation from becoming ugly. Rygel gets kicked a lot and stuck in mud, his least favorite thing to be around.
                          Aeryn and D'Argo compare headaches.
                          I think that describes John. As Pilot says in a future episode, their isn't anything remarkable about humans. He is probably the resourceful character. A lot of that is due to his alien enviroment
                          Originally posted by Bluemeany View Post
                          Blimey! It must have taken them ages to spray them all. It was like the entire forest. Unless they are dropping the paint from the air napalm style . How the hell do you get environmental permission for that? Hopefully they used something non-toxic....

                          I'm still leaning towards it being a filter trick done in the edit you know... but I'll be damned if I can copy it or figure out how it was done.
                          I think you are underestimating stunt choreography. The small areas of forests are mapped out for scenes. The special effects teams just has to pain that small area. And of course its non-toxic
                          Originally posted by aretood2
                          Jelgate is right

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                            #58
                            Originally posted by Bluemeany View Post
                            Blimey! It must have taken them ages to spray them all. It was like the entire forest. Unless they are dropping the paint from the air napalm style . How the hell do you get environmental permission for that? Hopefully they used something non-toxic....
                            I believe they use a non-toxic, powder-based sort of paint. It's sprayed on in large quantities. Kinda like how they can spray fake snow over a large surface. Sure, it's not something you do in an hour but it's pretty effective, and washes away with a little water like rain.

                            Originally posted by jelgate View Post
                            But the ships do?
                            Trust me linear animation is way easier and less complicated than character animation.

                            Originally posted by jelgate View Post
                            Where are your priorities, you hazmot.
                            Not in the right order.

                            Originally posted by jelgate View Post
                            Didn't Stargate do something like that to disguise British Columbia forests?
                            They probably did.
                            Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum

                            Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1

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                              #59
                              @ Bluemeany and Falcon Horus with respect to the blue flora, they could've actually used an artificial plant/flower and just added it into the typical plant life around the set where they were filming. That may have been an easier way to do it rather than spray paint them. I think they obviously used colored lighting alot as well to help change the color of things.
                              Originally posted by jelgate
                              This brings much pain but SQ is right

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                                #60
                                Originally posted by squirrely1 View Post
                                @ Bluemeany and Falcon Horus with respect to the blue flora, they could've actually used an artificial plant/flower and just added it into the typical plant life around the set where they were filming. That may have been an easier way to do it rather than spray paint them. I think they obviously used colored lighting alot as well to help change the color of things.
                                Alas, it looks like Blue had it right the first time... Just found this on another website (tor.com):

                                The blue vegetation was achieved by grading the film in post production. The plants were not painted. This episode was filmed at the same time as ‘I E.T.’.
                                And there's also a mention about the lack of Anthony's colored lenses:

                                Backstage: During the scene when D’Argo stuns Aeryn, you get a good look at the green contact lenses that were dropped after Anthony Simcoe got makeup removal fluid in his eyes and had to be rushed to hospital with a damaged cornea; the doctor forbade him to wear lenses for six months afterwards, hence his eyes changing from green to normal during the first four episodes depending on whether a scene was filmed before or after the accident.
                                Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum

                                Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1

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