Wraith Defenders Club

[masterling]

That he is.

Spoiler:

But he seemed to take pride in his appearance, and in his equipment.

Spoiler:

Ya know, for some reason, I suspect the lad spends hours...

Spoiler:

just polishing his stunner.

Spoiler:

das

It is his stunning stunner after all

This is from another thread - just trying to stick with my 'theme' tonight...

http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost....56&postcount=6



das

too awesome

Jeez, I leave you all alone for a few days and this is what I come back too? Hot tubs, naked wraith on fur beds, and handgina licking? *sigh* This gutter is starting to look more like a tent city.

Oh well, when in Rome...

I was going to type "*pitches tent in gutter tent city*" here, but then I realized that could be taken wrong, so uh... *constructs temporary outdoor shelter in the vicinity of a large number other temporary outdoor shelters which is itself in an undesirable area where refuse accumulates*

wow, very politically correct

[Fandom Addict]

Seriously, why does the fun always happen when I'm asleep. Meh, can't really post right now, getting ready for work. -.- But I'll be going in a happy mood today...

[GoSpikey]

Yeah...I'm gonna avoid his blog for a bit (again) - IF I can learn to keep my opinions to myself for a while.

See, seems some folks there think I'm off my nut now... I must be moving up in the world, in the past, only Spikey thought I was insane.


das

Ouch.

lol Good god woman!!! i need to learn to not have any food/drinks when im reading this forum

No worries Das, we all think your insane. but then again we are all kinda in the same ship

Double ouch!

Spoiler:

Can't you just hear Todd now when you run your tongue down the center of his palm? "AAAaaaaaAAAAHHHH!!!"

Gee...thanks. I think...


das

Oh yah, I can definitely hear that. I have had the same fantasy on occasion.

Ya know - I'm just gonna keep talking to myself until someone replies...

or, I'm gonna go to bed.

Speaking of bed...anyone else have a problem with imagining Wraith in their jammies, all tucked away under fluffy warm blankies? I do...just seems...weird. I'd much rather imagine Wraith sleeping standing up, fully clothed (as if their clothing was part of their exoskeleton). Or, if they do sleep lying down, then maybe naked, wrapped in a gooey, cocoon-like 'bed' - like what they keep their food in, only not as restrictive. That would be neat - each day they arise, their bodies all slimy like slugs. Slippy Wraith!

das

Purple comfy flannel ones, with teddy bears on it.

His hair will look so cute on them.

And his neck, so vulnerable.

[Todds worshipper]

Well, I need some comic relief myself...
Just one thing, though...

Spoiler:

I wouldn't even think of tonguing Todd's palm before I made sure he had...

Spoiler:

...brushed every last particle of Sheppard out of his handgina. AND used Scope.

das

I'm glad I'm not the only one with such devious thoughts When he offers Sam his hand I just want to grab it and kiss it, she's crazy for turning him down!

I wish I knew the secret to their finger armor. Todd's started wearing his on his right hand and the Commander to the Primary (in the Queen) had two on. With him having two I thought it might be a symbol of rank but then Todd would wear two from then onwards and he didn't. It's gotta be just for fashion

[ciannwn]

Speaking of bed...anyone else have a problem with imagining Wraith in their jammies, all tucked away under fluffy warm blankies?

I tried to imagine it and then started wondering if they snore.

[dasNdanger]

I tried to imagine it and then started wondering if they snore.

With all those nostrils, I'm sure they do - but no matter what, it'll sound goshdarn sexy!!



das

[GoSpikey]

Im going to go with them stayn in their leathers, ya need to be prepard for anything. but

Spoiler:

I could deffinetly go with naked in animal furs, yah i know disturbing, but o so comfy.

Meeeeeewwww...

*gutter*

That he is.

Spoiler:

But he seemed to take pride in his appearance, and in his equipment.

Spoiler:

Ya know, for some reason, I suspect the lad spends hours...

Spoiler:

just polishing his stunner.

Spoiler:

das

Polishing it...?

Seriously, why does the fun always happen when I'm asleep. Meh, can't really post right now, getting ready for work. -.- But I'll be going in a happy mood today...

Oh, you're going to be having an interesting work day today, yes! *g*

Try to focus a bit on work, lol!

[GoSpikey]

I tried to imagine it and then started wondering if they snore.

Aaaawwwww...

(But that's for a while, only, probably... )

[GoSpikey]

With all those nostrils, I'm sure they do - but no matter what, it'll sound goshdarn sexy!!



das

Do we know yet what those are for? I'm thinking no...

They probably thought it would look cool on them, and they haven't given it much thought past that...

[dasNdanger]

Do we know yet what those are for? I'm thinking no...

They probably thought it would look cool on them, and they haven't given it much thought past that...

They probably did it to make them less human-like, and - perhaps - to suggest they have a heightened sense of smell. Also, they probably thought it made them look ugly, but little did they know it only made them sexier!

As far as giving anything in this show much thought...well...we all know how we feel about that.

And how ya doing, Spikey? I still haven't watched The Prodigal. Even though I hate hybrid-Michael for what he did to the Wraith, I still have great sympthy for Wraith-Michael...as you know. I know the beautiful, 'innocent' Wraith is still there...and it just hurts knowing he could never be what he once was.

By 'innocent', I mean that the Wraith lived in a sort of bubble. Though they are capable of great brutality, they have this sort of...naivete...as if they are unaware that the outside world can be just as brutal as they are. In effect, they lived in a protected, idealistic world. Todd, of course, learned first hand how cruel the outside world could be - I think that's why he told Sheppard they were much alike, same with Michael, to Teyla. Yes, both species have feelings, have desires, but these two Wraith also learned firsthand that the outside world - the world they once had no reason to fear - was now a very dark and hurtful place. Todd's bitter tone when talking about the civil war suggests that the Wraith are quickly losing this innocence and their sense of security. It's kind of sad...like when a child first grasps the concept of death, or learns that Santa isn't real. Disillusionment...a loss of innocence...and that's how I see what's happened to the Wraith.

das

[Sparrow_hawk]

You sure put a lot of thought into this, WK! Anyway, here is my two-cents worth, tucked in between the quotes:

Okay, so this is my vision of Wraith Culture. Let's take a vote on the different aspects, and if you totally disagree with a section I've written down, add your own in the space provided. Let's deliberate and bargain over what we can all live with. Okay? So here it goes:


SOCIAL INSTITUTIONS

Social Interaction

-Culture of systemic violence and power quests
Need a promotion? -- Kill the guy ahead of you "artfully"
Need a queen? Kill the competition, she'll think you're cool and get a tattoo in the process.

O.K. I think we've seen examples of the system for career advancement. The part about the queen seems likely as well. I would add: selling out to a rival hive or even a rival queen is not out of the question, if they appear to be stronger and it will improve your chances for survival.

-Earn your stripes by hunting a Runner. There are some highly prized ones, but if you loose, you'll probably loose your life. If you win, you bring back the runner's head, plus the heads of all the wraith in your hunting team.

Sounds fine.

-Revenge your brothers at all costs: loyalty to hive and queen first, alliance and extended family second.

I think the order is: self, queen, hive, and alliance. I'm not sure where family fits in. Personally, I think that "family" is replaced by hive in their culture.

-Never show weakness.

-Never reveal your name

Sounds fine.

-Remain taciturn and always talk of yourself in the third person.

I don't think so. There are various personalities within their culture, so I don't think this is valid.

Religion

-Ancestor Worship, and the god of the Iratus. Iratus god, gives power, strength, immortality. Wear Iratus emblem on shield guard chain mail and over doors and in the great Hive Halls.

Never reveal you name to your enemy, they will have power over you.

-One great warrior makes human sacrifices at the mouth to the iratus cave. Prize humans are sacrificed.

I'm not sure I buy into the Iratus god concept and I'm not sure how ancestor worship fits in with their reproductive patterns (what little we know of such). Truthfully, I have not given Wraith religion any thought at all.

Culture/Music/Art

-Play string instruments, which require a great deal of hand skill--and math.

-Make textiles and tapestries.

-Studying mathematical designs.

-Young wraith after the age of six, and who have been streamed into the "intellectual class" must learn, language, science, math, biology, and medicine.

-Young wraith after the age of six, and who have been streamed into the "warrior class" must learn to take orders, handle weapons, fight in combat, strength train, and generally not to think critically.

-Painting tattoos, the fine art of

O.K.

Government

-A matriarchy, and autocracy.
Female a "Queen" who runs the hive with a few male advisers, has learned math, science and in particular strategic warfare. Runs the culling routes, guards those who sleep, and at times provides her hive with her ova in order to create clones, usually for fighting.

I disagree here. Clones were created solely for the war with the Ancients and are no longer used. The Queen is responsible for all breeding of warriors and higher caste Wraith.

-Occasionally, a male will lead in the absence of a queen. Males can lead equally well, but most males are sterile therefore are not seen as resourceful as a queen who has the ability to repopulate her hive.

A group of male advisers, in turn advise the scientists, and skilled professionals. As well as the military leaders who head up warriors.

O.K.

Social Services

-Loyalty is the motto amongst the warrior class; loyalty is an unreliable "ideal" in the intellectual class superseded by ambition.

I think the above belongs in your Social Interaction section.

Marriage
Because there are so few females, male wraith comitatus create the emotional need marriage fulfills in human societies.

I think you mean "fulfills" rather than "creates", and I suppose that is a valid idea given the lack of females and the militaristic nature of their society. This topic has been discussed at length elsewhere in the thread.

Sex
Due to the war with the ancients, the wraith called on all their fertile females to offer their ova up for cloning. The wraith's ova were completely depleted, and many of these females died in the war. As a result there are very few fertile female wraith and the wraith females that are fertile to not have enough genetic dissimilarity with males in her hive to successfully produce healthy off-spring. Wraith prefer to clone as a viable reproduction device. Wraith females do not desire any inference of male domination, therefore they only engage in coitus with a select few, for the pleasure of it, on their terms.

Children
See sex

I disagree with the cloning idea. But I think the Queens can have their pick of any male around for reproduction or just foolin' around. My own thought is that they use insect style reproduction, with the queen receiving male genetic material (how she gets it is up to your imagination) and then producing a large batch of eggs which are tended by worker-faceless Wraith until they hatch. After hatching, they are tended as a group until old enough to be educated.

Extended Relations

They have genetic, but not filial obligations to other hives. Hive of birth is priority.

I'm not sure I follow the idea of genetic obligation to other hives. Are you proposing that they have an obligation to provide males for the queens to breed with in order to prevent weakening of the species by in-breeding?

Death

There are elaborate death ceremonies for the valued fallen. This is where we find the most out about wraith culture. They stock their graves full of treasures, and sacrifice countless humans as guards for their cherished fallen warrior.

I don't think so. I think the Wraith are more pragmatic. Given the food shortage, I can see them feasting on humans to honor the fallen but not wasting all that good life-force in a sacrifice. I always thought that the Wraith since they are a nomadic species would not have burials but would give the bodies of the fallen back to the hive-ship to absorb and re-use.

Food

Well food, we know food, but they also like the fruit of the vine, and feed their young wraith a type of viscus honey meal mixed with fruit and grain. They also eat raw meat, with the blood still in it.

Eating food for pleasure has been established. I would think that preferences vary by individual, but your suggestions sound fine. Feeding the young Wraith on honey -- maybe. I kind of thought they ate normal people-food until they matured. They do have normal gastrointestinal systems and so could utilize any of the food that humans do.

[Sparrow_hawk]

They probably did it to make them less human-like, and - perhaps - to suggest they have a heightened sense of smell. Also, they probably thought it made them look ugly, but little did they know it only made them sexier!

I agree, it is a make-up department technique to help make them less human. And they are predators, so having an enhanced sense of smell. Or as some have suggested, they might be heat-sensing pits like snakes have.

By 'innocent', I mean that the Wraith lived in a sort of bubble. Though they are capable of great brutality, they have this sort of...naivete...as if they are unaware that the outside world can be just as brutal as they are. In effect, they lived in a protected, idealistic world. Todd, of course, learned first hand how cruel the outside world could be - I think that's why he told Sheppard they were much alike, same with Michael, to Teyla. Yes, both species have feelings, have desires, but these two Wraith also learned firsthand that the outside world - the world they once had no reason to fear - was now a very dark and hurtful place. Todd's bitter tone when talking about the civil war suggests that the Wraith are quickly losing this innocence and their sense of security. It's kind of sad...like when a child first grasps the concept of death, or learns that Santa isn't real. Disillusionment...a loss of innocence...and that's how I see what's happened to the Wraith. das

I'm not so sure they were so much "innocent" as dominant. More like the Romans at the height of their empire when they didn't take any outside threats seriously.

And I think perhaps you are projecting a bit of your own feelings, and those of many here at WDC in your description. As for Todd's description of the civil war, I thought he was being more critical of contemporary Wraith society. I have always had the impression that he was concerned that the younger generation had become too complacent and were not prepared to handle a major threat. And he was right.

[dasNdanger]

I'm not so sure they were so much "innocent" as dominant. More like the Romans at the height of their empire when they didn't take any outside threats seriously.

And I think perhaps you are projecting a bit of your own feelings, and those of many here at WDC in your description. As for Todd's description of the civil war, I thought he was being more critical of contemporary Wraith society. I have always had the impression that he was concerned that the younger generation had become too complacent and were not prepared to handle a major threat. And he was right.

I agree with Todd's feeling about the younger Wraith, but at the same time Todd wouldn't feel that way if he hadn't seen the outside world. The Wraith were isolated from human society - only knowing just want they needed to know in order to survive - humans = food, human technology = danger.

I know what I'm trying to describe is hard to...well...describe. 'Innocent' is the wrong word, I know that...naivete is maybe better.

Okay - here. The best way I could compare it is to Native Americans. They thought their world was all there was...to them - though it was brutal, at times cruel, and always dangerous - it was still simplistic, un...what is the word...*grabs thesaurus...*...unadulterated? Uncorrupted? It was 'pure', void of new (corrupting) ideas or ways. Because they lived in isolation from other cultures, they saw their way as the only way..thought they were the strongest and the bravest and the best. (This could be said of any culture that is isolated from other civilizations.)

So, you take someone like Michael, living his life as a Wraith thinking he's the best, the brightest, the strongest...and then someone suddenly overpowers him and strips away all that he is, leaving him to realize how vulnerable he really is. In this way, he's lost his 'innocence' - he knows now that Wraith are not 'all that', that they can be defeated, and easily. He's disillusioned when they reject him, again - more lost innocence, thrown out by his own kind to fend for himself. It's not that he was 'good', or unintelligent, or anything like that, but that the world he once saw as the One and Only was dashed before his eyes. He was forced to accept that there were others out there just like him, and that they were lowly humans, lowly humans more powerful and ruthless than he was. He was forced to acknowledge that all he believed in and put faith was fallible...it could not - WOULD not - save him. That's the sort of lost innocence I refer to.

Todd also went through this sort of disillusionment. Before becoming a prisoner, I'm pretty sure Todd never gave a second thought to who he fed upon. I'm pretty sure he saw his society as all-powerful, flawless, perfect. I'm pretty sure he was one hellava arrogant bas***d, too...just like all the rest. But captivity, and then his experience with Sheppard, helped him see things through different eyes. Being separated from his culture for so long, he was probably very disillusioned when he returned to find the in-fighting, the lack of organization, the betrayals. This sort of disillusionment is a type of lost innocence, because he knows too much now. Any idealistic notions he once had of a perfect Wraith society ruling the galaxy were now tossed right out the window. His eyes were opened, he could see the flaws.

That's what I mean. In both cases, their perceptions of The Way Things Are were dashed to bits, and because of it both became disillusioned with their own society, while becoming very much aware that there were others out there much more dangerous and powerful than they were. Not acknowledging that before was naive on their part, realizing it now is, in effect, a loss of their innocent notion that their world and their way was all there was.


das

[Sparrow_hawk]

I agree with Todd's feeling about the younger Wraith, but at the same time Todd wouldn't feel that way if he hadn't seen the outside world. The Wraith were isolated from human society - only knowing just want they needed to know in order to survive - humans = food, human technology = danger.

I know what I'm trying to describe is hard to...well...describe. 'Innocent' is the wrong word, I know that...naivete is maybe better.

Okay - here. The best way I could compare it is to Native Americans.

******* (see das's post above)

That's what I mean. In both cases, their perceptions of The Way Things Are were dashed to bits, and because of it both became disillusioned with their own society, while becoming very much aware that there were others out there much more dangerous and powerful than they were. Not acknowledging that before was naive on their part, realizing it now is, in effect, a loss of their innocent notion that their world and their way was all there was.
das

Ah, now I see. The Native American analogy is a good one. I hadn't really thought about it that way before, but for both Todd and Michael, their contact with Atlantis was an experience that profoundly changed their perception of the world. For Michael, it ended in disaster. I know you are also a bit disillusioned at present, but I hope that the writers will allow Todd to use his knowledge to make more constructive changes for the Wraith. Not necessarily to subjugate themselves to humanity, but to find a way to co-exist in the galaxy.

It has occurred to me that even if the Wraith give up feeding on humans, that wouldn't change their basic desire to be the dominant force in the galaxy. If they start eating the same food as humans, they are going to need to control planets that can provide them with food. I can't see them becoming merchants and trading for what they need - they only thing they have is their technology (and their cool leather coats), which they are unlikely to share - so I think they would most likely start demanding a tithe of food of a different, more conventional sort from the residents.

[dasNdanger]

Ah, now I see. The Native American analogy is a good one. I hadn't really thought about it that way before, but for both Todd and Michael, their contact with Atlantis was an experience that profoundly changed their perception of the world.

Yeah -- I have trouble expressing the feelings and concepts in my head because they tend to be abstract. I just 'know' what I mean, but to put it in words is very difficult for me - takes me a long time before I find the right words to express exactly what I mean. That's why I come off sounding like a nutcase 99.9% of the time...

For Michael, it ended in disaster. I know you are also a bit disillusioned at present, but I hope that the writers will allow Todd to use his knowledge to make more constructive changes for the Wraith. Not necessarily to subjugate themselves to humanity, but to find a way to co-exist in the galaxy.

I can't see how they will allow Todd to make 'more constructive changes for the Wraith' for the good, however - they've said time and again that they are the enemy, and will remain the enemy. I'm thinking any 'change' that the writers may make for the Wraith will be something to make them less sympathetic, simply to justify killing them all...which brings me to this:

It has occurred to me that even if the Wraith give up feeding on humans, that wouldn't change their basic desire to be the dominant force in the galaxy. If they start eating the same food as humans, they are going to need to control planets that can provide them with food. I can't see them becoming merchants and trading for what they need - they only thing they have is their technology (and their cool leather coats), which they are unlikely to share - so I think they would most likely start demanding a tithe of food of a different, more conventional sort from the residents.

Some viewers, like us, can feel sympathy towards the Wraith because they 'need to feed'. Take that away and just make them power hungry overlords, and there will be no defense left for them. It scares me that this may be the intention of the writers, and their introduction of the gene therapy idea. Take away what makes them Wraith (the instinct and need to feed on humans), and what do you have? Malevolent Overlords.


das