BOO To Clones

[maylet]

It's Carson. The real carson. The clone part is just sentimentality and plotworthyness. I always it to be clone-related, but I was hoping the dead carson would've been a clone, and the captured one the original. But who Cares, he's back and this was a really great episode.

I agree, lets just be happy he's back

[ciannwn]

Loved the idea that he was kidnapped in Misbegotten and the Carson who died in the explosion was the clone - NOW that was an excellent and clever way to bring our Carson back.

There was no way that Michael could have made a clone of Carson in 'Misbegotten'. The camp he was in didn't have the kind of technology which could be cannibalised and turned into a cloning machine. All he could do was take samples for later and make a clone when he had the means to do so.

[Vala_M]

Because we all know that clones aren't treated with the same dignity and respect as the original. How would any of you feel if you were taken away and a clone was put in your place? Wouldn't you feel mad and cheated? That is what everyone means by the clone is not the original.

Saw that twice this season and in both cases it took zpms to make full adults. Not sure if the wraith zpmclones had fullmemories but the duplicate sga-1 team had full memories/identity

That always seemed over-exaggerated to me. Or is that just nanite constructed clones? Because Ba'al didn't have ZPM's yet he made 20+ clones of himself so I don't think that Michael would need a ZPM to construct a clone.

Vala,

[Black Panther]

It's Carson. The real carson. The clone part is just sentimentality and plotworthyness. I always it to be clone-related, but I was hoping the dead carson would've been a clone, and the captured one the original. But who Cares, he's back and this was a really great episode.

He is not the real Carson. The real Carson died in Sunday, and he is never coming back. No matter how much he looks, acts, or others wish him to be he is not the real Carson.

Personally I didn't have that much of an emotional attachment to this clone. Don't get me wrong I pitied him as I would any person who is in his predicament. I also agreed with what Rodney said about him not being a cheap copy. I am all for clone rights! It's just that the only emotional attachment I felt towards him mainly stemmed from the fact that he resembled Carson so closely, and the others felt like they were losing Carson again. Ultimately it was like watching a stranger go through that. Which is fitting because he is a stranger.

[xSFx]

What's the big difference between "Carson.exe" and "Copy of Carson.exe" ?
From a scientific point of view: absolutely irrelevant.

Ok, the living Carson needs to take some meds, but that's it.

[gopher65]

He is not the real Carson. The real Carson died in Sunday, and he is never coming back. No matter how much he looks, acts, or others wish him to be he is not the real Carson.

Personally I didn't have that much of an emotional attachment to this clone. Don't get me wrong I pitied him as I would any person who is in his predicament. I also agreed with what Rodney said about him not being a cheap copy. I am all for clone rights! It's just that the only emotional attachment I felt towards him mainly stemmed from the fact that he resembled Carson so closely, and the others felt like they were losing Carson again. Ultimately it was like watching a stranger go through that. Which is fitting because he is a stranger.

That's exactly how I felt. I was kind of surprised by this, but my mind treated him like a new character who just happened to somewhat resemble the old character. I felt no emotional attachment to him.

I'd have preferred if the one who died in Sunday had been a clone too.

[The.Road.Not.Taken]

What's the big difference between "Carson.exe" and "Copy of Carson.exe" ?
From a scientific point of view: absolutely irrelevant.

Ok, the living Carson needs to take some meds, but that's it.

there memorys are different upto a point and we wont see clone carson for a while because he is in statis pod but i am curious why is he only in 5 eps in atlantis next season when we know keller will get the meds for him

[Gaeth]

Well he's not the 'original' Carson, but he's certainly his closest living heir.

[ShadowMaat]

It's cheap, it's gimmicky, and it is not the "real" Carson. The clone has not shared all of the same experiences, thoughts and memories of the original; how could he when his life for the past two years has been so wildly different from how the original lived? They may have started off virtually the same, but they started to diverge even before the clone was created- from the moment the genetic material was taken they've been following different paths and they are no more the same that an AU Carson would be. In fact, you could almost say that the clone IS an AU Carson because injections aside this is pretty much how Carson would probably be if he had been abducted by Michael.

I'm all for clones as real people, but they're nowhere near the same as the original. On a genetic level, maybe, and in this case that includes the original's memories and personality, but a clone is a distinct individual and thus not the same. Not in my opinion, anyway.

[xSFx]

Well, what does "original" mean? This is what I want to challenge

Here's an interesting read:

I have changed my mind about my body. I used to think of it as a kind of hardware on which my mental and behavioral software was running. Now, I primarily think of my body as software.

My body is not like a typical material object, a stable thing. It is more like a flame, a river or an eddie. Matter is flowing through it all the time. The constituents are being replaced over and over again.

A chair or a table is stable because the atoms stay where they are. The stability of a river stems from the constant flow of water through it.

98 percent of the atoms in the body are replaced every year. 98 percent! Water molecules stays in your body for two weeks (and for an even shorter time in a hot climate), the atoms in your bones stays there for a few months. Some atoms stay for years. But almost not one single atom stay with you in your body from cradle to grave.

What is constant in you is not material. An average person takes in 1.5 ton of matter every year as food, drinks and oxygen. All this matter has to learn to be you. Every year. New atoms will have to learn to remember your childhood.

These numbers has been known for half a century or more, mostly from studies of radioactive isotopes. Physicist Richard Feynman said in 1955: "Last week's potatoes! They now can remember what was going on in your mind a year ago."

But why is this simple insight not on the all-time Top 10 list of important discoveries? Perhaps because it tastes a little like spiritualism and idealism? Only the ghosts are for real? Wandering souls?

But digital media now makes it possible to think of all this in a simple way. The music I danced to as a teenager has been moved from vinyl-LPs to magnetic audio tapes to CDs to Pods and whatnot. The physical representation can change and is not important — as long as it is there. The music can jump from medium to medium, but it is lost if it does not have a representation. This physics of information was sorted out by Rolf Landauer in the 1960'ies. Likewise, out memories can move from potato-atoms to burger-atoms to banana-atoms. But the moment they are on their own, they are lost.

We reincarnate ourselves all the time. We constantly give our personality new flesh. I keep my mental life alive by making it jump from atom to atom. A constant flow. Never the same atoms, always the same river. No flow, no river. No flow, no me.

This is what I call permanent reincarnation: Software replacing its hardware all the time. Atoms replacing atoms all the time. Life. This is very different from religious reincarnation with souls jumping from body to body (and souls sitting out there waiting for a body to take home in).

There has to be material continuity for permanent reincarnation to be possible. The software is what is preserved, but it cannot live on its own. It has to jump from molecule to molecule, always in carnation.

I have changed my mind about the stability of my body: It keeps changing all the time. Or I could not stay the same.

------
TOR NORRETRANDERS
Science Writer; Consultant; Lecturer, Copenhagen; Author, The Generous Man
Permanent Reincarnation

In this context, what difference does it make if one is the "cloned" person and the other is the "clonee" ?
It's certainly not the stuff they're made of that makes them different.
It's not even the genetic difference regarding the telomers (they were still the same persons even after they got the ATA gene treatment).

[Seftrex]

there memorys are different upto a point and we wont see clone carson for a while because he is in statis pod but i am curious why is he only in 5 eps in atlantis next season when we know keller will get the meds for him

I would hardly say for awhile

Spoiler:

He is in the second episode of the next season, so my guess is he is cured between "The Last Man" and "Search and Rescue".

[Detox]

there memorys are different upto a point and we wont see clone carson for a while because he is in statis pod but i am curious why is he only in 5 eps in atlantis next season when we know keller will get the meds for him

Isn't it obvious? It's gonna take a while for them to hunt down Michael and get the cure.

[The_Carpenter]

Isn't it obvious? It's gonna take a while for them to hunt down Michael and get the cure.

I would guess that they get the cure early on in Season 5, but he is only recurring due to the IOAs views on him being a security risk

Tis my guess and I think it makes sense.... but then I would

[Aurora24]

I wonder what's gonna happen to Carson once he gets cured. I mean he remembers having a life and close family back home on Earth, however since he's a clone so when he leaves Atlantis what will happen to him? I mean it's not like he'll be allowed to go home to the people he thinks of as his family because he's not technically him. I feel sorry for him because of this. He remembers a whole life that I doubt that the military and the IOA will allow him to become involved in.

[Briangate78]

Carson is going to be in at least 5 eps. They have been stressing the "at least" part. So we may see him in even more. I truly hope so. As per the clone thing. Well I posted another thread. I am happy with the clone, heck it worked in Farscape. Same thing really. Carson is an exact copy with all the memories. Nothing less, except for the DNA flaw which I am sure they will find a cure next season.