Everything you ever wanted to know about Hiveships/Wraith.

[Ouroboros]

There were many trees. A whole forest on that ship. A tree, especially such as a huge pine, will need a good load of earth to grow properly. The more it will grow, the more it will stop dirt in the air and have part of its mas fall on the ground to become more soil, but in the end, huge pines, even with their roots partially extraground, will need to get lots of minerals from a decent layer of soil.

That's something I find curious. How did that hiveship completely shake all the stuff on its hull? It must probably have wooden roots still stuck in the holse on the armour or something.

Most of it would just fall off when the ship went vertical for the first time, the rest would probably be scraped off by atmospheric drag as it took off.

I did. Sort of. When playing with the escape velocity for inert natural objects (not rockets or so), which was 11 km or something, it brought me to near one teraton per second.

The fact that the hiveship cross their entire lenght in one or two frames towards the end would easily put that in several teratons per second.

Especially since the ships entering hyperspace are not blurred, like they usually do.
Honestly, no, I won't do that, because we know that ships are sucked in and spat out at fast speed, while their cruising speeds often are low.

But well, that's the power of dishonesty.

Indeed. I'm reminded of a recent thread where they worked out power generation figures for 40k ships. It was a real stunig conicidence how they all just happened to come out about 1 order of magnitude less than those for wars ships in similar roles.

That said, we see the hiveships manoeuver before accelerating towards the window. I don't even remember this ever happening in any other hyperspace jump.

I would file this whole situation under the "open in case of fanboy" category. Basically if you get someone who's obviously wanking something stupid about how say, a Ha'tak could blow up a dozen hives at once, just throw that out there and have a chuckle as they try to bull**** their way around it.

Yep. At first, the two darts rise, and they slowly increase their speed, and then, suddenly, it's like they pushed the gas pedal (we see the globe at the back get redder), they literally zap five or six dart lenghts or so in a very few frames.

I wonder how this stacks up to the previously confirmed 10,000KPH speeds from seige for darts in an atmosphere.

Oh, on a side note. I don't know if they officialized it, but the recent artwork thread in the general forum dug an artwork showing the Wraith scout ship in comparison to a dart.
We even get an official lenght for the dart, like, err, 65 feet, which is normal, considering the pointy thing. A F-16 is like 45 feet.
In fact, we precisely get all the dimensions, safe the height, but with side profiles, we can guess them fairly easily.

You'll be pleased about the equipment that ship was supposed to get (reduced to a miserable bleeping dot in Aurora) :

Spoiler:

Long range assault ship? See the big black things protruding out of the bow and the wings' tips?
The ones on the wings seem to focus just straight ahead of the bow. They could be sensors (there's even two of them on the back of the wings), but that pair one the bow might be weapons.
If so, they're quite big, since we don't see the gun on the dart.

That thing looks positively evil! Why didn't they put that in the show!

Here's hoping they do someday, that's too cool of a design to waste. The only thing I would change would be the front windows, they kind of throw off the design a bit and seem way too big in general.

That's a minor gripe though.

And more about some Wraith ship, which I find extremely similar to the wall carving seen in Rising (first image provided by Prior_of_the_Ori:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

We may have our massive culler ship. Though it is not indicated, it looks like it's from The Defiant One, even if it seems they used a model they already had, and buried it. At least, they buried it enough so there's still room for the new design.

I've actually seen a smaller version of that pic but figured it was just a regular hive or cruiser. With it blown up like that it's obvious that there are significant differences.

In this department apparently there's also an alternate version of the hiveship that appears at the begining of letters from pegasus. It was a rejected cgi design that somehow got used in the final version of the episode anyway.




Notice the altered nose linking the two halves together and the significant differances in hull design.

It also seems to have two cruiser's docked on the wings, and maybe one on the nose as well.

No idea what the canon status of this design is. It was in the show but apparently, going by the interview I read, it was done accidently.

[Vala_M]

Most of it would just fall off when the ship went vertical for the first time, the rest would probably be scraped off by atmospheric drag as it took off.



Indeed. I'm reminded of a recent thread where they worked out power generation figures for 40k ships. It was a real stunig conicidence how they all just happened to come out about 1 order of magnitude less than those for wars ships in similar roles.



I would file this whole situation under the "open in case of fanboy" category. Basically if you get someone who's obviously wanking something stupid about how say, a Ha'tak could blow up a dozen hives at once, just throw that out there and have a chuckle as they try to bull**** their way around it.



I wonder how this stacks up to the previously confirmed 10,000KPH speeds from seige for darts in an atmosphere.



That thing looks positively evil! Why didn't they put that in the show!

Here's hoping they do someday, that's too cool of a design to waste. The only thing I would change would be the front windows, they kind of throw off the design a bit and seem way too big in general.

That's a minor gripe though.



I've actually seen a smaller version of that pic but figured it was just a regular hive or cruiser. With it blown up like that it's obvious that there are significant differences.

In this department apparently there's also an alternate version of the hiveship that appears at the begining of letters from pegasus. It was a rejected cgi design that somehow got used in the final version of the episode anyway.




Notice the altered nose linking the two halves together and the significant differances in hull design.

It also seems to have two cruiser's docked on the wings, and maybe one on the nose as well.

No idea what the canon status of this design is. It was in the show but apparently, going by the interview I read, it was done accidently.

The only difference I notice between that one and the hive ship currently used by the CG effects people is that it looks more rigid on the bottom instead of smooth. And I think that cruisers can dock on the sides of hive ships, even on the "current" CG model ships.

http://www.thescifiworld.net/img/zoc...a-2x01-360.jpg

It's in the back near the engines to the right.

Vala,

[Ionis Furry]

How do the Wraith make their ships? Personally I think they grow them somehow. Would make sense, or maybe they construct some of the hull and then grow the rest of the ship. Anyone know?

[Prior_of_the_Ori]

How do the Wraith make their ships? Personally I think they grow them somehow. Would make sense, or maybe they construct some of the hull and then grow the rest of the ship. Anyone know?

If you are asking if any confirmation has been made on the show, then sadly no. Not at this time at least, perhaps later in season 4 we might find out or someone asks Joe and he responds with an answer.

[Mister Oragahn]

Thinking about it...

That thing:

Spoiler:

Could also be the one of two stern appendages found on cruisers:

http://www.thescifiworld.net/img/zoc...a-2x01-360.jpg

[Mister Oragahn]

You know I actually understood some of that I hate physics.

But for the volume, remember there is a whole section in the middle of the ship that is open. And the Dedy can just fit inside of it. I think we saw it in No Mans Land.

And to me it would make sense to have a material for the armor to be a material that is similar to Kevlar so it can absorb the impact. But I don't really understand yet how it works so don't look to much into it.

Yes, there are gaps in the superstructure, but considering that I've used water density, instead of heavier elements, this is well balanced imo.

[l33telboi]

The puddle jumper are capable of similar accelerations. I remember that episode where one was idling in front of a stargate, in some pine wood, just before rushing into the gate. Maybe it was The Return, pt I.

IIRC they've shown quite some nifty deceleration as well, and that's almost the same thing when it comes to kinetic energy, there are some issues like air resistance and whatnot that you need to factor in, but those don't affect the final figure on the scale of orders of magnitude (probably very little actually, considering the timeframe and velocity involved). It was way back in the pilot, when Sheppard is flying through a stargate to escape some Wraith Darts and then finds himself inside the gateroom of Atlantis, he comes to a complete halt in something like a puddlejumper length, and he wasn't exactly going slow before entering the Stargate either.

[Mister Oragahn]

Erm, I've caught an error in my FTL estimation. I didn't use the correct piece of the transcript.



This is the path the fleet of three hiveships, as seen in Letters from Pegasus, would take before reaching the Lantian system.

The dialogue says it will take 49 hours to do so. That's based on the moment they've left the first planet.
The distance between the first planet and Atlantis is 115.76 LY.

They'll stop on each planet in between, for more culling.

We can reasonably consider that one hour for each planet is enough.

With three planets remaining to be culled, this leaves 46 hours of true travel.

So here's their FTL speed:

FTL V = 115.76 LY / (49-3) h
FTL V = 1014730.44 Lh / 46 h
FTL V = 22059.357391304347826086956521739 Lh/h
FTL V = 22059 c (rounded)

This has interesting ramifications.

First, even if there were thousands of hiveships in the galaxy, it would still take them quite some time to move them around.
This is another point to explain the use of stargates for cullings.

But above all, considering the distances to cover, during the last stages of the war, notably during the siege of Atlantis, for the Wraith to be able to roll out many ships and bring them above Atlantis in no time, or at least within a reasonable amount of time to prevent the Lantians from redeploying defenses and mounting a counter attack, their shipyards - whatever these are - would have needed to be quite close from the planet. Which is a basic good tactic anyway.

[Mister Oragahn]

IIRC they've shown quite some nifty deceleration as well, and that's almost the same thing when it comes to kinetic energy, there are some issues like air resistance and whatnot that you need to factor in, but those don't affect the final figure on the scale of orders of magnitude (probably very little actually, considering the timeframe and velocity involved). It was way back in the pilot, when Sheppard is flying through a stargate to escape some Wraith Darts and then finds himself inside the gateroom of Atlantis, he comes to a complete halt in something like a puddlejumper length, and he wasn't exactly going slow before entering the Stargate either.

Well, I always was under the impression that Atlantis would actually have dampening fields, forcefields and other gadgets in the gateroom.

There's the shield around the stargate, that's good, but imagine that there's an ally ship which can't slow down.

I would have put the stargate on some large plaza, instead of cramping it into a tower.
Putting it into a tower leaves little chances in case something comes in fast, and that tower is considerably fragile.

There's no evidence that there was a field to slow down the puddle jumper, but it meant that if there's none, then you could literally come in slamming at a high fraction of c and vapourize the whole thing.

[Ouroboros]

Erm, I've caught an error in my FTL estimation. I didn't use the correct piece of the transcript.



This is the path the fleet of three hiveships, as seen in Letters from Pegasus, would take before reaching the Lantian system.

The dialogue says it will take 49 hours to do so. That's based on the moment they've left the first planet.
The distance between the first planet and Atlantis is 115.76 LY.

They'll stop on each planet in between, for more culling.

We can reasonably consider that one hour for each planet is enough.

With three planets remaining to be culled, this leaves 46 hours of true travel.

So here's their FTL speed:

FTL V = 115.76 LY / (49-3) h
FTL V = 1014730.44 Lh / 46 h
FTL V = 22059.357391304347826086956521739 Lh/h
FTL V = 22059 c (rounded)

This has interesting ramifications.

First, even if there were thousands of hiveships in the galaxy, it would still take them quite some time to move them around.
This is another point to explain the use of stargates for cullings.

But above all, considering the distances to cover, during the last stages of the war, notably during the siege of Atlantis, for the Wraith to be able to roll out many ships and bring them above Atlantis in no time, or at least within a reasonable amount of time to prevent the Lantians from redeploying defenses and mounting a counter attack, their shipyards - whatever these are - would have needed to be quite close from the planet. Which is a basic good tactic anyway.

Looks good. I would have used more than three hours for the 3 cullings but I just ran it with 20 hours and the velocity doesn't increase by any noteworthy amount. So if there are any objections on that front they don't really amount to much.

I can't remember what your old numbers were or where/if they were posted here. If it's one of the posts I made on your behalf I'll edit this in so there's no duplication.

[An-Alteran]

Erm, I've caught an error in my FTL estimation. I didn't use the correct piece of the transcript.



This is the path the fleet of three hiveships, as seen in Letters from Pegasus, would take before reaching the Lantian system.

The dialogue says it will take 49 hours to do so. That's based on the moment they've left the first planet.
The distance between the first planet and Atlantis is 115.76 LY.

They'll stop on each planet in between, for more culling.

We can reasonably consider that one hour for each planet is enough.

With three planets remaining to be culled, this leaves 46 hours of true travel.

So here's their FTL speed:

FTL V = 115.76 LY / (49-3) h
FTL V = 1014730.44 Lh / 46 h
FTL V = 22059.357391304347826086956521739 Lh/h
FTL V = 22059 c (rounded)

This has interesting ramifications.

First, even if there were thousands of hiveships in the galaxy, it would still take them quite some time to move them around.
This is another point to explain the use of stargates for cullings.

But above all, considering the distances to cover, during the last stages of the war, notably during the siege of Atlantis, for the Wraith to be able to roll out many ships and bring them above Atlantis in no time, or at least within a reasonable amount of time to prevent the Lantians from redeploying defenses and mounting a counter attack, their shipyards - whatever these are - would have needed to be quite close from the planet. Which is a basic good tactic anyway.

How on earth is one hour enough for a fleet to be culling?!

That is a huge assumption.

[Prior_of_the_Ori]

Yeah I kind of agree, I mean wasnt it like several hours during that episode before the Hives reached Atlantis at the end of season 1? That world with Teyla's friend I think is a clear indication that a culling of a world takes quite sometime.

[Mister Oragahn]

Looks good. I would have used more than three hours for the 3 cullings but I just ran it with 20 hours and the velocity doesn't increase by any noteworthy amount. So if there are any objections on that front they don't really amount to much.

I can't remember what your old numbers were or where/if they were posted here. If it's one of the posts I made on your behalf I'll edit this in so there's no duplication.

Yes, I found a post where I made a mention of something like 46000c, while I remember that my first estimations came close to the ha'tak FTL figure from Enemies, so I just quickly revisited the stuff.

By the way, the 115.76 LY distance was obtained by measuring the distance between Atlantis and the first planet (point of departure at that moment).

Now, it does not say that all hiveships are as fast or as slow as those three ones.

Being tribal and unable to repair certain parts of their tech would play a few tricks.

[Ouroboros]

How on earth is one hour enough for a fleet to be culling?!

That is a huge assumption.

I ran it myself with 20 hours for the three cullings and it still comes out under 40 grand.

I don't want to speak for Mr. Oragahn but do keep in mind to that these are just loose estimates here that we're making. We can't really know how long the cullings took or even if the Wraith were pushing their drives to the absolute max here.

Think of it as a low end, we know they can go at least this fast.

[Ouroboros]

Yes, I found a post where I made a mention of something like 46000c, while I remember that my first estimations came close to the ha'tak FTL figure from Enemies, so I just quickly revisited the stuff.

By the way, the 115.76 LY distance was obtained by measuring the distance between Atlantis and the first planet (point of departure at that moment).

Now, it does not say that all hiveships are as fast or as slow as those three ones.

Being tribal and unable to repair certain parts of their tech would play a few tricks.

Have you seen Travelers yet.

Spoiler:

It was a pretty awful episode but there's an interesting demonstration of cruiser firepower in it.

We get some guys on the bridge of an Aurora class battleship bring the shields up when they're about to be attacked by the cruiser. The cuiser then takes the shields down in 10 shots, 9 if you assume the first one doesn't count because it was before the guy says "20%".

The ship rocks violently every time a shot hits and the scene is pretty much continuous as far as I can see.

It's an interesting bit of info in any case. Certainly more evidence toward the idea that Wraith weapons were optimised specifically to maul Lantian shields.

If their best ship can be laid low by only 50 shots from a mere cruiser I think we've got our answer to how the Wraith faught them despite the various instakill weaponry, which is also demonstrated again here. The shots this cruiser fires are a fraction of the size of the bolts in hive yet the damage they cause to the lantian shields is way out of proportion compared to what they would do to say, Daedalus. It seems from this that the Wraith weaponry was almost as bad for the Lantians as the Lantian weaponry was for the Wraith.

The episode also shows how fragile Lantian warship hulls are as well. The one cruiser shot that hits after the shields drop blows a pretty massive chunk out of the hull, the bridge being a part of said chunk.