An open letter to all of Gateworld

[eyecandylovr]

Oh, I know I'm at the top of that list. In fact, I've been "spoken to" about it before and tried to "improve" myself. Honestly, it probably didn't work, but I did try and the simple fact is, if no one TELLS me I'm doing something wrong or that my intentions are being misconstrued or whatever, then I have no earthly way of trying to fix it, do I? As you say, Tame, most folks don't even know it. Well, why is that? Why not PM the "offenders" and just mention that they may want to rein things in a bit, or that complaints have been received, or that they may want to count to ten before posting? And if it keeps happening, put the person on moderation. Even if it means putting me on moderation. It might create more work for the mods, but it it would improve the atmosphere around here, maybe it wouldn't be such a bad thing.

I don't like the idea of anyone cowering on threads, afraid to venture far beyond their own boundaries. Hell, I don't like feeling that way, myself.

Well, I for one, posted like Ronnikins in an anti thread and got slammed. I didn't go on and on about how I felt hurt and treated for my comments, I just left the thread. I now browse anonymously and avoid all but a very few threads that are friendly. I would also like to point out that as a newbie, even if I didn't post in the "good old days", have always tried to be diplomatic when disagreeing with someone.
And I avoid the anti threads like the plague. They seem by their very nature to be negative. Don't need more of that than RL already provides.

[gatelover12]

I now browse anonymously and avoid all but a very few threads that are friendly.

It's amazing and sad how many people (Myself included) feel this way. Seems the only place where you can have a civilised talk with anyone who doesn't agree with you is Off-Topic chatter.

[ampcoyote]

Hmmmm. . .I came here to see if anyone had posted a transcript from the Vancouver Con, found people who were slamming a dear young friend of mine and responded rather hotly. This is my first time back. I'm a bit of a hermit, did my bit in the early X-files fandom and got over it. . .

When I spoke about my encounter to a friend, she informed me that Gateworld was a "bad part of town" for fandom. That's the rep you've gotten, you know. Which is kinda' sad. . .

Just the two cents of a newbie who isn't quite sure why she hasn't deleted her account. . .

[ShadowMaat]

And I avoid the anti threads like the plague. They seem by their very nature to be negative. Don't need more of that than RL already provides.

The anti threads have, unfortunately, become a bit... defensive. It's unfortunate when new folks come in and say "Why don't you like the show?" and get blasted, but what they can't understand is that what seems like an innocuous question to them has been used as a battering ram by others. The anti threads have a knee-jerk reaction to ANYONE questioning them because certain parties habitually come in and ask questions. Not because they want to know, but because they don't feel that we have a right to post. Their questions are more like veiled (and not so veiled) attacks and however often the mods come in to clean it up, it still leaves a nasty feeling in its wake and it doesn't stop others (or the same certain troublemakers) from coming in to attack us all over again. No, it isn't fair and yes, the denizens of the anti threads should try and have a little more patience, but it's hard to remember that not EVERY question is an attack. But it sure seems that way sometimes.

It's also difficult when someone comes in and asks a question that has been asked- and answered- dozens of times before. Why don't we like season 9? Well, there are 176 pages to the thread. Chances are the answers are in there somewhere. No, I certainly wouldn't expect people to read all 176 pages, but as I said before- if you read the first few pages and last few, you can usually get a pretty good idea about what's going on in ANY thread. Except the rep points one. NO ONE can explain THAT. You can also try skimming over the intervening pages. Not necessarily reading every post on every page, but skimming over random pages. That adds a little more definition to things. If you (generally speaking) don't feel that you should be required to read hundreds of pages in order to fit in, well... should the thread denizens be required to answer the same questions every time someone new drops in? There's give and take on both sides, if you ask me.

Lurking is, in fact, a fantastic way to introduce yourself to a board or to a particular thread. There is no rule saying that you HAVE to post and I think people who lurk first tend to be better posters, in the long run. Lurkers get a better feel for the personalities involved and they stick around long enough so that they generally don't have to ask the "newbie" questions on a thread such as "why do you like this guy?" or "How come you don't like that?" because they've stuck around long enough to KNOW.

I'm not advocating everyone to shut up and just read what's already there, but if folks would do SOME reading before they post, I think it could save a lot of confusion and possible hurt feelings on either/both sides.

[SallyLizzie]

And I avoid the anti threads like the plague. They seem by their very nature to be negative. Don't need more of that than RL already provides.

I think it was some time last year when I went into the AntiSW thread and basically asked why they viewed SW that way, and what did they see when others where seeing ship (or something like that). A few words were exchanged between ShadowMaat and myself before we established there had been a misunderstanding (which is understandable as I went in an AntiSW thread with a SW sig, more or less asking them to justify theirselves) and once it was seen I was genuinly interested and not there to troll, we had a really good discussion where a lot of good points were made against my prefered ship. She very nearly turned me noromo So I wouldn't say they're necessarily negative.

Other's have talked about going into threads that opposed what they prefered and being welcomed.

It's not something I would do or encourage now as their seems to be a lack of tolerance, perhaps born from waryness and tiredness of repeating oneself (and thus detering from their original convo). I truly think it's a shame bc people are missing a lot of good points. They don't see where others are coming from and so avoid those people and this creates a gap, creating seperate sections which end up becoming territorial.

In the SW there are several FAQ. The posts that best answered these questions are in one persons sig, and a number of people have detailed posts of 'Why do you see Sparky?' saved so whenever somebody asks, they can be given a link. This lessens any possible disruption. (Granted, this doesn't always happen). I bring this up bc it might be an idea if your (general) thread gets FAQ to have such links at hand, or better still, to add them to the first post. Could take away some of the tension *shrugs*

[ShadowMaat]

In the SW there are several FAQ. The posts that best answered these questions are in one persons sig, and a number of people have detailed posts of 'Why do you see Sparky?' saved so whenever somebody asks, they can be given a link. This lessens any possible disruption. (Granted, this doesn't always happen). I bring this up bc it might be an idea if your (general) thread gets FAQ to have such links at hand, or better still, to add them to the first post. Could take away some of the tension *shrugs*

I was just thinking about that. It might help, although NOTHING can totally fix the situation. Unfortunately. I'll have to give it some more thought when I have time. Between dinner and a niecelet set to make her debut as a Townsperson in Music Man, I'll have to put it on the back burner.

[Seshat]

It's not something I would do or encourage now as their seems to be a lack of tolerance, perhaps born from waryness and tiredness of repeating oneself (and thus detering from their original convo). I truly think it's a shame bc people are missing a lot of good points. They don't see where others are coming from and so avoid those people and this creates a gap, creating seperate sections which end up becoming territorial.

I agree. I think people miss out on a lot because they might label posters based on one or two posts in a single thread and not really take the time to get to know someone. I've made plenty of friends here who are devout shippers or love slash, neither of which I go in for, yet we never argue about those topics. It is entirely possible to co-exist and even discuss these issues without fighting about them.

I must add that it is NEVER wise to walk into ANY thread and toss out statements like, "Why can't you all see how wrong you are about ______?" This type of language is just asking for a fight, IMO. Why people don't understand that you can never sway someone to your point of view (if that is your intention) by telling them how stupid you think they are, is beyond me! Crafting what you say is just as important as the point you are trying to make. That little extra effort can make you a world of friends! Respect counts around here.

Lurking to get a feel for the tone of a thread is a good thing. I'd posted on other boards but I lurked for three months at GW before I ever posted in a thread here, and I still made newbie mistakes. But at least I had a better understanding of what I was doing. Plus, I had kindly posters pointing out things I did not know and helping to guide me to where I felt most comfortable, and welcoming me once I got there. But then I didn't run around telling people I thought their ideas were stupid, either.

[Luz]

Well, I for one, posted like Ronnikins in an anti thread and got slammed. I didn't go on and on about how I felt hurt and treated for my comments, I just left the thread. I now browse anonymously and avoid all but a very few threads that are friendly. I would also like to point out that as a newbie, even if I didn't post in the "good old days", have always tried to be diplomatic when disagreeing with someone.
And I avoid the anti threads like the plague. They seem by their very nature to be negative. Don't need more of that than RL already provides.

Poor you, i felt a bit guilty because i saw it coming from miles away, and was cringing. I think part of the problem is that for whatever reasons sometimes the air in the forum gets so charged with pent up rage, and some lost confused soul ends up taking the hit.
Don't you feel like we are so predisposed?, someone already mentioned it here, i think it was Shadow. Most of all have fallen victims of generalizations, time and time again, some for being anti-something, some like me for being too pro-something, and again me for being a shipper, and a thunker.
I've seen some people openly dismiss my opinion because i was shipper, generalizations are a bad thing because people make asumptions about a group of people most of the times based on something they've been told.
Lately i've been trying to rid myself of my preconceived notions, up until a couple weeks ago i used to roll my eyes everytime i heard someone complaining about the direction the show (SGA) was taking.
Talking to me about kirking was the equivalent of waving a red flag in front of a bull, for the life of mine i still can't explain the why of my reactions, they were so violent.
Now i'm trying to get to understand people's misgivings, yeah hearing someone complaining day in and day out can get tiring, but i've also been on forums and lists where people are not allowed to say anything that can be construed as a negative post and that's horrible. Creates this fantasy of perfection and happiness on the surface, but deep inside people are just stewing in their repressed anger.
So if i'd have to choose between hearing a bit of complaining, or some false sense of possitiveness, i choose the complains, at least that's real.
I think i'd be hard to try to change everyones mentality, mainly because there are people who don't want to change, people who join forums only to create misunderstandings, and flamewars. But i also think there are really great people here at GW, some of the best i've met in all of the fandoms i've been in.
GW is a place i feel comfortable in most of the time, there are times when as i said things get out of control. But i honestly feel things can get fixed before they reach red alert level, just by taking time to consider if what we're writing is productive, or if it's only a result of our rage.
Yeah, socks are a problem, but what if instead of jumping at their throats and giving them what they want (our angry reactions) next time we see someone whom we suspect is a troll or a suck we respond to them in a civilized manner. If they ask an off topic question you feel has only been made with the purpose of upsetting people, and if you don't feel like you can respond without chewing their head off, then don't say anything, and if the post warrants it, report it.
I don't think before these past few weeks i ever reported anything, i used to feel like by reporting someone's posts i was being a snitch. And i always tried to fix everything by PM, until one day when i felt so attacked, i tried correcting what i perceived was a misunderstanding by PM, and was told that we (as in the people at the thread i hung out on) were going to get our punishment for all our evil deeds. This wasn't the only offensive PM i got, i got a few more, by 'different' people all with the same tone, i felt like i'd brought in on myself for daring to make that first contact, and since it stopped i never reported it.
'Nuff said this cured me of trying to set things privately by sending PMs, now i just report if i feel offended by something, and only PM people when i'm absolutely sure they're not going to blow my head off.
Not everyone on GW is waiting for the chance to eat you alive, for me this sock issue is just a case of a few ones spreading bad blood. One person speaking in the name of a group, bashing, saying hurtful things in the hopes of getting the raise out of us. The level of rage that can be perceived sometimes is scary, the hatred pouring from some posts, my gosh.
But if we pay attention we'll see it's only a few who do this, the rest of us seem to be just jaded, tired of being played with, taken for fools, provoked. Tired of having the same questions asked over and over again, tired of feeling like some people are expecting us to justify ourselves to them, like our opinions can only be validated if and when they agree with us.
Like Seshat said, when someone has this "how can you dare saying that?", "where in god's name did you get that stupid idea?", they're just asking for a fight, well then, if we know they want to fight let's not give them the satisfaction, there is nothing more frustrating for a troll than being ignored.
I don't know, this is just what i feel about the current state of GW, i think it can be solved, it can be better. But not by us getting used to it (which is what i believe some of us have been doing), but by working as a team, to clean the air of so many misundertandings. I only hope this ramblings make some sense, lol.

[Skydiver]

Another thing to consider....to horribly paraphrase Darren....back in the 'good old days' we only had a few hundred kids playing in the swimming pool. Easy to control. troublemakers were few and far between. we got to know each other and each other's issues/nuances.

but now that pool has gotten popular. instead of a hundred folks, we have almost 20,000. Ya wanna know the odds that, out of those 20,000 we got kids that like to pee in the water????

smaller the group, easier it is to control and for folks to get along. Bigger the group, proportionately wise the more troublemakers that will come into the mix

[LaCroix]

Alas, the age of photomanip can have anybody doing anything nowadays. I've seen slash illustrations on some livejournals that look like honest to god photos. Same with ship photos. In fact, most photomanips, when it comes down to, involving putting two people together in a sexual situations (whether ship or slash).

I wonder what actors think if they trip over this stuff. THe smart ones just stay away from fan stuff !

I have to say I agree with this. I've seen Manips. during my slash days that would put Hustler to shame. ( Seen the movie with Woody Harrleson, not the mag)

The one thing that really bothers me, RDA and MS have kids. And kids being kids want to find out all about their parents. What happens if one day they find these.

[Atlantean_Fan]

Hi, since I’m recovering from a bad Flu and finally got my strength back, I decided to join in this discussion which I think, by reading back, is a really relevant one…

I hope you won’t suffer too much reading through my lengthy post, sort of a trade mark of mine I guess, sorry in advance…

When I first joined this forum in August last year, I didn’t have much time to hang around and just did it to ask stuff that puzzled me about the shows in the late Ask Joe Mallozzi thread. Later on, I started to take the time to also read his blog entries and the commentaries posted to them. This trend of behavior you are talking about here was clear in both places by the end of his presence here at GW. The response of some so called fans made me feel bad for Mr. Mallozzi. I don’t even wonder why he left us, although he said otherwise probably to be polite to the fans that are real fans and can just word constructive criticism in a polite way…

I’m not considered a softie by anyone I know, including my family, and I used to have the nickname freezer when in High School exactly because of the way I always kept cool under the most terrible circumstances. If some idiot tried to hurt me or one of my friends I would tear that person down with a few witty and snarky words. In the end of those years people were actually afraid to piss me off. I just don’t get flamed and destroy the flamer entirely, I have zero patience with people whose only purpose in life is to make others feel miserable and unfortunately they are everywhere. I’m becoming protective of some people in this forum that I really began to like as friends and I really guess these trolls and socks that harass you guys so much are lucky they didn’t cross my path around the board yet. I completely understand the mods when they step in here and tell you (general) that someone can knock you (general) to nothingness without even getting close of breaking the be nice to your fellow poster forum rule. I’m a master of this art with years of experience, but I come here to have fun and talk about aspects of my favorite shows and characters, both positive and negative, this is my first fandom ever, I really hope I don’t have to exercise my art in here. So far it wasn’t needed yet…

I’ll talk about my experience here a little bit now…
The first thread I ventured into after the Ask Joe one was the Sheppard Discussion and Appreciation one. I really felt welcomed there although I’m not one of the regulars out of sheer lack of time since Shep is my favorite character. I really wish I could post more often in the places I hang around here. The second one was the Sheppard/Weir Ship Discussion one, when I first started lurking in that thread was because they were having a interesting discussion about the episode The Tower and I wanted to know the spoilers because the episode thread for some reason wasn’t helping me much in learning about it; I got in, said politely that I was a noromo person, but was willing to discuss some aspects of ship, which I thought was just a short for spaceship when I first joined the forum and only learned the word’s other short meaning in this thread, and even joined up in an innocent joke that was running a few pages back, everybody accepted me and we had very nice conversations and fic recommendations, I ended up changing my mind a little about the ship stuff on Atlantis in the end. I guess the main words in this part of the post are politely and willing to discuss. Now I hang in there very often and consider some of those folks my friends and even offered personal assistance to one of them in an occasion. I have joined other threads as a poster after that, always keeping in mind how I think we should behave ourselves in a forum and that’s how I try to behave and up until now no one, that I know of, has complained about me. I think I’m playing fair and not only by the rules. It’s that whole old thing I guess: Don’t do to others what you don’t want them to do to you or something like that…

Trolls, beware of me !!!

[LaCroix]

I know that there are times when I do get a little mouthy. And hopefully I'm getting better at it. There are also times that I do self-censure myself and I try not to take what's written here as a personal attack. I do tell myself "it's only a T.V. show" There's always another to take it's place.

I think there's only one time that I've reported a post. But that post was against forum rules, as this is a "family friendly forum". And I've also deleted
a couple of posts that I've made in one episode thread, since that episode
hit a little too close to home.

Before I joined this site, I lurked a lot as a guest. I've learned a lot, hopefully
made a few on line friends and hope to make more in the future. Now I've written way too much and gotten all mushy.

See you in the threads.

[GaterGina71]

I joined GW in January 2005. I had been a fan of SG and was on another board that was way out of line for my taste, saw a link or something to here, came in, lurked, read and enjoyed it, so I joined. One HUGE reason I enjoyed it was I had just went through the death of my mother (Jan. 1, 2005, something no one knew, I just need a place to take my mind off the grief) and everyone was very friendly and welcoming. I spent alot of time here and appreciated the responses to my comments, or my input on threads. Time went on, and I noticed the tension growing, the rudeness abounding.There are threads that are so cliquey that if they don't know you, they don't acknowledge your presence.(Not that I need validation on my posts but saying hi to a new person is just polite)
There is a thread I really enjoyed, but don't go to anymore because I cannot stand having what I believe in picked apart by others, very rudely at times also. People are entitled to thier opinion, and although others may not agree it doesn't give anyone a right to be disrespectful.
People are bashed for thier country, thier religious beliefs, and thier opinions on the show. Although I have posted my opinions and beliefs I don't have the right to call anyone a name or disrespect them because of it. I am down to visiting two or three threads now. I just find it sad that I came to a place for some friendship and a good time, and its so far from what is once was.

[Jace021903]

Very interesting thread...and educational--Simon/Paula fic, who knew??

I admire very much the posters who can express their opinion without implying that anyone who disagrees with them is a idiot.

Fortunately, there are many people on this forum that do a great job with that; their posts are a pleasure to read even if I don't always agree with their viewpoints.

Unfortunately, there seem to be a number of posters who don't show respect for anyone else's opinion but their own; anyone who doesn't see it as they do is deluded or stupid or their opinion doesn't matter anyway because they are just a _____-hater.

It's disappointing to see fans of the same show treat each other so badly.
It reminds me a bit of politics where anything or anyone who threatens the position of the other side is Very Bad.

The so-called protected threads are a nice idea if the posters keep it to appreciation of the character or ship, but sometimes a few posters will use the perceived protection of the threads to mock those who have a different point of view. Too bad.

And I don't know how many times I have seen posts like: "those people are really bad and ruining the fandom because they say awful things about character X."

Then in the next breath, "now, let's talk about how bad character Y is." Hello, pot...kettle. Not because they're expressing an opinion, but because they think that everyone else is wrong for doing the same thing they are themselves doing. The mind boggles.

I wish I had a good solution to offer. The forum would be a much more fun place to play if people realized that a little tact goes a long ways. If only I had a magic wand....

[Lightsabre]

Just wanted to put in a slightly positive note here.
There was a poster who I felt was goading me in several threads. THis person appeared to have a major issue with me.
I reported it, the mods got back to me and the situation was handled. THe system may not be perfect, but it does work.
I just thought I would put this, so we cna see that the mods can and do stop people from behaving badly where they can.
Perhaps the rules need to be tightened. Perhaps we need to introduce a 'probation' posting period. I don't know.
But we do have a system and it does work.