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  • P-90_177
    replied
    I don't disagree that a different showrunner would be better but it has nothing to do with Chibnall getting on his soapbox. He's a sci-fi writer. It's what he's meant to do. The issue is that he is not great at writing sci-fi.

    Leave a comment:


  • Annoyed
    replied
    Originally posted by Az'ryel View Post
    I think it might not only be those gaps in between that makes the show lose watchers. To me, when 12 changed to 13 Doctor Who stopped being the show that it was and what I liked about it. It is still a nice sci-fi show and 13 is also nice but somehow from as much I have seen now (am through the first season with 13) it lost it's Doctor Who" feeling to me and maybe to others it is the same.
    I am willing to keep giving it a chance still, regardless of those gaps and the lacking of the "who" feeling, but others might not
    To me, it seems as if Chibnall is spending at least as much if not more effort standing on his soapbox, preaching his message as he is telling Doctor Who stories.
    And the ratings have dropped, quite a bit. I just hope the show survives Chibnall and the next showrunner does a better job. But BBC might pull the plug before that can happen.

    Hey ho, Hey Ho, Chibnall has to go!

    Leave a comment:


  • DarkenLycht
    replied
    I think it might not only be those gaps in between that makes the show lose watchers. To me, when 12 changed to 13 Doctor Who stopped being the show that it was and what I liked about it. It is still a nice sci-fi show and 13 is also nice but somehow from as much I have seen now (am through the first season with 13) it lost it's Doctor Who" feeling to me and maybe to others it is the same.
    I am willing to keep giving it a chance still, regardless of those gaps and the lacking of the "who" feeling, but others might not

    Leave a comment:


  • Annoyed
    replied
    Originally posted by cosmichobo View Post
    If they reduce the show to 6 hour episodes per year, they'd better improve the quality...

    I know the BBC has no mandate to compete with commercial enterprises, yada yada, but if they want to be taken seriously, I think they need to keep a higher episode count.

    I also appreciate that the UK does tv differently to the US - AND - I would not want them to churn out 22 episodes per year like we used to see from sci-fi shows of the 80's-00's (cos you would absolutely have a bunch of crap episodes, and have to dig through to find the good ones) BUT - By the sounds of things, since the series returned, the "showrunner" has been the issue with producing a "full" season per year. RTD managed it, but apparently at great mental and emotional cost. No one else has.

    To me, that means - "It's broke" - so - Fix it. Have 2 showrunners. Have a showrunner, and 170 helpers. Surely there are tasks that can be handled by someone other than the showrunner, in order to achieve better results.
    So, if Davies could do it, it can be done. We need a better showrunner.
    Hey ho, Hey Ho, Chibnall has to go!

    Leave a comment:


  • Annoyed
    replied
    Originally posted by Gatefan1976 View Post

    What a load of crap.
    It's not about left or right, it's about what is RIGHT. Both sides can provide useful idea's, but you don't seem to understand that.
    Forget parties, go with what works. Sometimes the right has better idea's and that is fine, sometimes the left has better idea's, and that's fine as well.
    Don't be beholden to a party.
    We can't discuss this without violating the rules of the First New Order here, but suffice to say that at least one of the topics Chibnall is preaching about is NOT settled science. It is opinion. How can something be either right or wrong if the underlying facts are not known.

    Originally posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
    It's English TV, not US TV.
    It's a different beast. Your problem with Chibnall is...……… well, irrelevant. Stop watching if it offends you so much. Or, keep watching, and get ignored.
    Your choice.
    It is a business that makes it's money by attracting viewers. If those viewers stop watching due to long hiatus periods, they may change their minds about that due to the loss of revenue.


    Originally posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
    And that loss is all based on your perception?
    LOL
    SAD
    No, it is based upon the ratings figures, which I linked to.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gatefan1976
    replied
    Originally posted by Annoyed View Post
    I've watched many of the "old" episodes, and all since the 2005 reboot. At no time do I recall the show being as in your face about a political message as it is this season. When did the Doctor ever break the 4th wall and outright make a speech to the audience as was done in "Orphan55" ?
    Err, YES it has been.
    Breaking the 4th wall is more noticeable now because since the re-boot, they have been more honest about it.
    Scifi -in general- has ALWAYS been preachy, because it pushes HOPE. You may not have noticed it then, but it has ALWAYS been there.
    Perhaps it takes it getting obvious for you to actually notice it?
    Maybe less noticeable to you, because you agree with the message. But it stands out like a sore thumb to me. And it's not as if I insist the messages in entertainment be ones that I agree with; if I did, I would have very little to watch; the media is overwhelmingly biased to the left. "Last Man Standing" is the only one I can think of off the top of my head that has a right-leaning message,
    What a load of crap.
    It's not about left or right, it's about what is RIGHT. Both sides can provide useful idea's, but you don't seem to understand that.
    Forget parties, go with what works. Sometimes the right has better idea's and that is fine, sometimes the left has better idea's, and that's fine as well.
    Don't be beholden to a party.
    Only because the audience puts up with it. If audiences stop coming back, they will stop with the extended hiatus periods. If they don't run S13 till fall 2021, and the audience doesn't come back, that will hurt them in the wallet. And, considering Chibnall's handling of the show, S13 might be a good one to miss.
    It's English TV, not US TV.
    It's a different beast. Your problem with Chibnall is...……… well, irrelevant. Stop watching if it offends you so much. Or, keep watching, and get ignored.
    Your choice.

    I have no issue with Whittaker, I like her portrayal. But Chibnall has got to go. The sooner the better.
    Why?
    He is more obvious?
    See before.

    According to what I posted, it's audience dropped by more than 50% in one season. That's too big a drop to blame on changing habits.
    And that loss is all based on your perception?
    LOL
    SAD

    Leave a comment:


  • cosmichobo
    replied
    If they reduce the show to 6 hour episodes per year, they'd better improve the quality...

    I know the BBC has no mandate to compete with commercial enterprises, yada yada, but if they want to be taken seriously, I think they need to keep a higher episode count.

    I also appreciate that the UK does tv differently to the US - AND - I would not want them to churn out 22 episodes per year like we used to see from sci-fi shows of the 80's-00's (cos you would absolutely have a bunch of crap episodes, and have to dig through to find the good ones) BUT - By the sounds of things, since the series returned, the "showrunner" has been the issue with producing a "full" season per year. RTD managed it, but apparently at great mental and emotional cost. No one else has.

    To me, that means - "It's broke" - so - Fix it. Have 2 showrunners. Have a showrunner, and 170 helpers. Surely there are tasks that can be handled by someone other than the showrunner, in order to achieve better results.

    Leave a comment:


  • EricG
    replied
    Most British series are only 6 episodes of 1h or 4 of 1.5h (Sherlock). I'd rather have 6 plus Christmas of Dr Who if they can do it every year.

    Leave a comment:


  • cosmichobo
    replied
    I created the "Julian Richings for Doc12" video on youtube, so when we instead got Peter Capaldi, a 50+ year old actor who didn't look like any that had gone before him (in the new era), I was quite pleased. His first 2 years didn't produce amazing results IMO (some good stories, but a pointless "Am I a good man?" season long arc for his first year), but I think his last season was pretty good. Well worth catching up @Sgalisa.

    To be fair, even at only 10 x 55 minute episodes per season, they are still making more output than the original era did in its last 4 years (which were 14 x half hour). But, it still feels like it's being whittled away...

    Leave a comment:


  • SGalisa
    replied
    Originally posted by cosmichobo View Post
    My wife accused me tonight of not giving Jodie a fair go. My response to that is that I watched every episode of her first season (except the last; think I watched the opener and stopped). I watched Resolution, and I started watching this season. Like VampyreWraith, I struggled to remember the companion's names. Another 18 month gap?

    The general population will be asking - Doctor who?
    LOL!!! Maybe *that* is part of the whole BBC psychology in programming and advertising for the "Doctor Who" series...?

    I remember Tom Baker's (Doctor #4) years being interrupted from various filming or whatever strikes were going on. Back then, the seasons had more eps... now, the seasons are what? Down to about Six episodes?

    Originally posted by Annoyed View Post
    ... the media is overwhelmingly biased to the left. "Last Man Standing" is the only one I can think of off the top of my head that has a right-leaning message,


    Only because the audience puts up with it. If audiences stop coming back, they will stop with the extended hiatus periods. If they don't run S13 till fall 2021, and the audience doesn't come back, that will hurt them in the wallet. And, considering Chibnall's handling of the show, S13 might be a good one to miss.
    . . .
    According to what I posted, it's audience dropped by more than 50% in one season. That's too big a drop to blame on changing habits.
    I think based on older Doctor Who eps, the media has always pushed the boundary lines of what should be in this show or not. It vanished off the air for I think an entire decade, because of what? Dislike of the Doctor in general? BBC tried to replace DW with other shows, such as Tripods, and even that one got failed to see it's 3rd and final installment season. It didn't matter how much complaining was done by the viewing fan base, because the BBC catered to whomever they felt like. Money talks too... if it reaches the TPTB high enough. But then, there always seems to be some catch into keeping the program on the air... Make it "this way" or "that way" (fill in the blanks _____), or else take a hike elsewhere.

    Anywho... as quirky as the series of Doctor Who was and is, it was my favorite sci-fi for reasons I won't explain. But when I heard about the series possibly ending or getting more politically winded, I stopped watching after the 50th Anniversary episode. I felt that episode was one of the absolute best ones, and wanted to keep a happy memory of the entire series. I don't even remember if I saw Matt's Doctor #11 turn into Doctor #12. I did see snippets of it on the internet, but probably not the whole storyline. It was too depressing for me to see the Doctor go down any darker paths, which is what was being hinted at... Plus, I realized I got too monstered out. Enough monsters in real life to deal with... yikes.

    Leave a comment:


  • Annoyed
    replied
    Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
    First of all, Doctor Who has always been preachy... so please, step out of our safe zone and go back to watch everything that came before and come back to tell me I'm wrong (apart from 12 I have seen every episode, including the ones missing half of their visuals).
    I've watched many of the "old" episodes, and all since the 2005 reboot. At no time do I recall the show being as in your face about a political message as it is this season. When did the Doctor ever break the 4th wall and outright make a speech to the audience as was done in "Orphan55" ?

    Maybe less noticeable to you, because you agree with the message. But it stands out like a sore thumb to me. And it's not as if I insist the messages in entertainment be ones that I agree with; if I did, I would have very little to watch; the media is overwhelmingly biased to the left. "Last Man Standing" is the only one I can think of off the top of my head that has a right-leaning message,

    Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
    Second, the BBC allocates a budget to their shows which, I assume, is regulated by fiscal year. There was no budget allocated for Doctor Who in 2019 so no series in that year.

    Third, the scripts for series 13 are already being written. According to information from Gallifrey One filming starts in September of 2020, and airing is scheduled for autumn 2021. We might not like it very much but that's how it is these days.
    Only because the audience puts up with it. If audiences stop coming back, they will stop with the extended hiatus periods. If they don't run S13 till fall 2021, and the audience doesn't come back, that will hurt them in the wallet. And, considering Chibnall's handling of the show, S13 might be a good one to miss.

    Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
    Fourth, Whittaker is very much committed to staying for more than a season since she was the one who mentioned in an interview she was more than happy to stay on for another series (number 3 in this case). Chibnall's vision is unknown to me but I have no problem with his showrunning -- except the bit where it's getting tiresome of having the "monster-of-the-week" in series 12.
    I have no issue with Whittaker, I like her portrayal. But Chibnall has got to go. The sooner the better.

    Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
    Fifth, the ratings will be lower as before because -- newsflash -- people don't watch TV quite the same way as a decade ago. How many of you watch a show live these days? Or watch TV at all?

    I don't watch live most of the time because I'm not home when Doctor Who airs on sunday evening, and Doctor Who is literally the only television show I actually watch on television. Everything else I watch is streamed on Netflix or (illegally) downloaded.

    Besides -- here are the series 12 ratings and they are pretty steady.
    According to what I posted, it's audience dropped by more than 50% in one season. That's too big a drop to blame on changing habits.

    Leave a comment:


  • cosmichobo
    replied
    My wife accused me tonight of not giving Jodie a fair go. My response to that is that I watched every episode of her first season (except the last; think I watched the opener and stopped). I watched Resolution, and I started watching this season. Like VampyreWraith, I struggled to remember the companion's names. Another 18 month gap?

    The general population will be asking - Doctor who?

    Leave a comment:


  • VampyreWraith
    replied
    Originally posted by Annoyed View Post
    The ratings drops may just as well be attributed to the preachy / soapbox aspect of this year.
    I'm pretty much caught up with the season now (just have to watch the newest ep), and I have to agree with Falcon Horus that overall, the show isn't any more preachy than it has been in years past. The only episode that stood out for me as going a bit too far with the preaching was Orphan 55, and that was mainly in the final minutes imo. I don't know if they were just trying to hammer home the episode's message for very young viewers with that one, but it was a bit much.

    The year gap thing is annoying though, but that's how a lot of shows are now. I literally couldn't remember any of the companions names going into this season and struggled to remember anything that happened last season (some of that may have been due to the fact that I didn't really care for it, I think Jodie makes a really good Doctor, I just didn't really find any of the eps last season that interesting or engaging).

    Leave a comment:


  • EricG
    replied
    Here is a site that shows ratings for all 12 series in one list, would be great it someone graphed it.

    S12 is the same as S10 in average viewers. S11 was higher because BBC promoted the "female doctor" heavily including radio. That brought new viewers that didn't stick around.

    Update: 12.1 is higher than 10.1, and 12.6 is slightly lower than 10.6.
    Last edited by EricG; February 16, 2020, 07:46 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Falcon Horus
    replied
    First of all, Doctor Who has always been preachy... so please, step out of our safe zone and go back to watch everything that came before and come back to tell me I'm wrong (apart from 12 I have seen every episode, including the ones missing half of their visuals).

    Second, the BBC allocates a budget to their shows which, I assume, is regulated by fiscal year. There was no budget allocated for Doctor Who in 2019 so no series in that year.

    Third, the scripts for series 13 are already being written. According to information from Gallifrey One filming starts in September of 2020, and airing is scheduled for autumn 2021. We might not like it very much but that's how it is these days.

    Fourth, Whittaker is very much committed to staying for more than a season since she was the one who mentioned in an interview she was more than happy to stay on for another series (number 3 in this case). Chibnall's vision is unknown to me but I have no problem with his showrunning -- except the bit where it's getting tiresome of having the "monster-of-the-week" in series 12.

    Fifth, the ratings will be lower as before because -- newsflash -- people don't watch TV quite the same way as a decade ago. How many of you watch a show live these days? Or watch TV at all?

    I don't watch live most of the time because I'm not home when Doctor Who airs on sunday evening, and Doctor Who is literally the only television show I actually watch on television. Everything else I watch is streamed on Netflix or (illegally) downloaded.

    Besides -- here are the series 12 ratings and they are pretty steady.

    Leave a comment:

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