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    Free to Be You and Me (503)

    ADRIANNE PALICIKI GUEST STARS — Not sure he trusts himself anymore, Sam (Jared Padalecki) decides to give up hunting, but a late-night visitor (guest star Adrianne Palicki) won’t let him off the hook that easily. Dean (Jensen Ackles), intent on stopping the Apocalypse, continues hunting on his own and teams up with Castiel (Misha Collins) to find the Archangel Raphael, as Castiel believes Raphael knows God’s location. Miller Tobin directed the episode written by Jeremy Carver (#503).


    POST VIEWING DISSCUSION ONLY

    #2
    OMG that was HUGE this season is gonna be so awesome
    Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side and a dark side and it holds the universe together
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      #3
      Originally posted by Jeffer View Post
      OMG that was HUGE this season is gonna be so awesome
      I definitely second that. I kind of knew that was coming at the end there. I have kind of thought that was supposed to be Sam's destiny.
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        #4
        yeah as soon as i saw Lucifer i was thinking the same thing but before that i had no idea
        Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side and a dark side and it holds the universe together
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          #5
          Really a good episode.

          We find out that the higher angels have basically lost faith in God, while the lower angels still believe. Sam was suppose to be Lucifer's true vessel. Dean is Micheal's vessel. Either we have a huge show down between the brothers or we don't. Not sure what I want to see just yet.

          I do know that when Dean and Sam hook back up, I hope the writers don't have Sam hide the fact that he was suppose to be Lucifer's vessel from Dean just to create drama or what ever.

          The Cas and Dean team was pretty good. I get a kick out of the dry humor, with Cas being this really naive, unworldly straight-man who just doesn't get sarcasm or almost any social or cultural references that aren't Biblical. He keeps giving Dean these blank stares and quizzical looks when Dean uses them, which is like all the time, and I find it amusing. I'm waiting for Dean to "loosen him up a bit" and for Cas to start to try using slang and sarcasm, or making references to old movies and songs everyone's used to having a certain meaning. I'm sure he'll get it wrong because he probably still won't quite grasp the true meaning of most of the sayings. Cas with the hooker just had me rolling. Specially when he just downed half a beer and then with her running out after Cas telling her it wasn't her fault.

          Does anyone know if Anna is going to be back this season? I'd love to see a team up of Cas and Anna to find God.

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            #6
            Originally posted by the fifth man View Post
            I definitely second that. I kind of knew that was coming at the end there. I have kind of thought that was supposed to be Sam's destiny.
            Really, I didn't see that one coming. I guessed, that Jessica was really Lucifer, because he approached Nick in a similar way, but that THIS was the result really surprised me.

            Cas and Dean were great. It's incredible in which way Misha works mostly with his eyes. Has someone ever found a more "anxious" look like ever?

            Aww, I loved this episodes like the ones before, though I had a hard time to understand the sequences with Raphael because of all the background noises..
            The cake is a lie!

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              #7
              Here I go again. If my marathon posts each week are annoying you all, please let me know! There were a lot of little things in this ep I liked and then there were three big plotlines that interested me.

              The little things:
              -Continuity. Supernatural is so incredible at getting the details right in this regard...with the exception of scars, the boys should look like Halloween monsters by this point! But small things like the tattoos and Dean still worried about getting his necklace back make me smile.

              -Castiel and Dean. Because it was played more like a one-shot episode with the two of them, I can get into the humour. And it WAS good humour. Castiel's confusion over Thelma and Louise and Teenage Mutant Ninja Angel references, the personal space line, Dean doing up his shirt getting him ready to be an FBI agent, how badly Castiel sucks at being an FBI agent (LOVED that!), Castiel's literal-ness ("How was it?" "Arid."), and the fabulous night out they had. Misha acted the best terrified look I've ever seen! And Dean's Prostitute 101 lesson!! As long as this isn't an every week thing, and it didn't seem like that where it is heading, I enjoy the break in tension.

              -I like that the boys still check in with "Dad" (Bobby). And that while Bobby is still going to smack them upside the head when they need it, he isn't JUST a sarcastic smart-aleck (the end of the phone conversation when his voice softens and he tries to talk to Sam, "Sam. Hold on. Sam?" Also interesting that Castiel went through Bobby to find Dean. And that Bobby told him. And that he DIDN'T tell Castiel that Sam had left.

              -The other hunters. Good to broaden the world of hunting a bit again, as long as it doesn't get into the boys going on group hunts or anything. I like their Lone Wolves status. But seeing how different hunters would react to Sam and his problem was cool. They actually wanted to dose him to "Hulk out" and kill for them?! Wow.

              -Love the lightning wings that Raphael has.

              -I like Jensen's 'facial acting' in the scene where they trap Raphael. If you go back and look, yes it is obvious towards the end of the scene what he is doing, but from the time he walks into the room, he gives a lot of subtle clues: quick glances to the floor and to Cas, quick nervous looks each time he goads Raphael. It is fascinating to see Dean so wary of Raphael. He genuinely seems worried about what Raphael could do to him. Hence the great line, "Don't look at me, it was his idea!" BTW, even if Raphael were to bring him to Michael, Dean still has to give consent, so I wonder what Raphael was thinking they could do to make Dean give that consent this time that Zach didn't already try.

              All right the three big points of this ep:

              1.Watching Dean and Sam living their separate lives (song help again please, people. I loved that song in the beginning.). The montage really pinpoints the differences between the two brothers. I know Sam is purposefully avoiding hunting, but you can see here just how good he IS at fitting into society. Sure he is a loner and quiet, but he can still blend in with the general populace, find a way to live with 'civilians' and live a semi-normal, if kind of sad life. Can you imagine Dean taking any kind of 9-5 job, be it blue- or white-collar? This is so fascinating because we know how badly Sam has always wanted to just be part of the normal crowd and here we see, that had circumstances been different, he would have been really good at whatever non-supernatural occupation he had wanted to try his hand at.

              Dean. Watching this sequence of Dean working, it struck me anew just how good Dean is at his job. He is: A. Hunter. Period. He is quieter than we are used to seeing him, but he is also focused and scarily efficient. He is the Mozart of hunting. But like Sam, it's kind of a sad life. Sam has co-workers around him, even if he keeps them at arm's length, but Dean is truly alone.

              This leads to the comments Dean made to Cas at the end abouit family. First of all, the ep had a great through-line with absent fathers. Amazing how 3 years after John's death, he is still such a presence. And how because of that Dean (mister sceptic to the Divine), can teach Cas something about faith. And as for Dean's comments about Sam, they can come off as harsh, but personally, I totally understand them. I don't think he is truly HAPPIER without Sam (You can see this on his face after Cas leaves the car), I think it is just more of a relief to have that constant weight lifted, even for a moment. This is where I get what he is saying.

              Trying not to stray into TMI, but in my life, I am kind of in Dean's position. We have a lot of family tension and I am the peacemaker. My siblings have their own lives and families to worry about, but I, being single, don't. So everyone figures I have the time and energy to mediate the drama. Last year, when I took my first vacation in 10 years (!), I couldn't believe how freeing it felt to have fun, doing something that I wanted to do without constantly heading off arguments! Did it mean that I didn't want to ever go back to my family? No. Without a family of my own, they are my lifeline, just like Dean. But for one weekend, it was nice to be free and I think that is where Dean's mindset is at the moment. He needs to take a step back, and take a deep breath before he charges back into the fray. And I believe it is this lack of emotional baggage that is making Dean such a laser-focused hunter right now.

              2. God is dead. Hmmm. That's a pretty big statement to make. If they had left it at that, as a certainty, I would have had problems. But the writers are still being careful with the God idea, so I am still willing to wait and see where they are going with this. I think it is wonderful that Castiel still believes He is around when so many higher up angels are in doubt.

              3. Sam as Lucifer's vessel. *sigh* This is the first time this season that I have been VERY unhappy with the writers. I do not like this idea in the least. What has been so compelling about the brothers from the time Sam gets his first visions in season one is that Sam has something special about him....and Dean doesn't. For this arc, Dean was the viewer. The 'normal' one who could never truly understand or relate to what Sam has to deal with every day.

              It was fascinating to watch Sam with his struggle to deal with the fact that he could never get rid of this thing inside him. And it was just as fascinating to watch Dean struggle to accept and support his brotherknowing he could never understand.

              Later it was Dean struggling with his guilt over what he did in Hell, something Sam could never understand, while Sam struggled with guilt over what he was doing with Ruby, something Dean would never understand. In Sympathy for the Devil, we see it turn again. Dean now has to struggle with the revelation that he has a bullseye on his back for every angel and demon because he is to be the leader (or vessel to one) in a war he wants nothing to do with, and Sam would never be able to understand. Now Dean was 'special' and Sam was the viewer's POV. I was looking forward to watching how each of them dealt with this role reversal.

              But now they share the same destiny of being the ultimate vessels, generals for opposing teams? Besides that I don't really want another story with them fighting on opposite sides (great drama for one season, but let's get back to fighting together) where is the viewers 'everyday' character to relate to? I thought it was going to be Sam this season, which would then serve to highlight Dean's struggles, which would then turn the attention back to Sam as he struggles to help Dean, and round and round it goes putting a spotlight on both brothers as they try to cope with totally DIFFERENT destinies. And a little sidenote here: if being host to a archangel then turns you into a drooling, psych-ward zombie, what's going to happen if BOTH brothers end up like that?

              Nope. Don't like this twist of events...but as always, I'll reserve judgement until the end when I can look at it as a whole.

              -Last note here on continuity and I'll put it in spoilers because it involves the preview for next week's episode. It is just a TINY little thing (I only saw it because I paused the tv on this frame) but just in case there is a die-hard anti-spoiler fan who doesn't even watch those for fear of having things spoiled.

              Spoiler:
              Did you see the wall behind the people coming after Dean in the alley? It had "Croatoan" spray painted across it!!!! What other show picks up seemingly dropped storylines like Supernatural!! Man, I love this show!

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                #8
                Originally posted by Crichiel View Post
                Here I go again. If my marathon posts each week are annoying you all, please let me know! There were a lot of little things in this ep I liked and then there were three big plotlines that interested me.
                Not at all. I like reading in depth review posts.


                1.Watching Dean and Sam living their separate lives (song help again please, people. I loved that song in the beginning.). The montage really pinpoints the differences between the two brothers.
                Only my most favorite Lynyrd Skynyrd song...Simple Man!

                I've been waiting for them to use that song. Such a great way to use it.


                Originally posted by Arative View Post
                Sam was suppose to be Lucifer's true vessel. Dean is Micheal's vessel. Either we have a huge show down between the brothers or we don't. Not sure what I want to see just yet.
                Me either.

                If they go there it could be great to watch but with terrible consequences. I know people were wanting a showdown between them in Lucifer Rising and got nothing, but this would pretty much destroy them...at least physically...course that could easily be handwaved if God shows up and repairs their bodies, but I don't know how they'd overcome the emotional stuff. But if they keep up the top notch quality of the eps so far this season, don't think I'll be disappointed either way.

                I do know that when Dean and Sam hook back up, I hope the writers don't have Sam hide the fact that he was suppose to be Lucifer's vessel from Dean just to create drama or what ever.
                Agreed. It needs to be out in the open. Mix it up from the past seasons where they constantly hid things from each other.


                Originally posted by Crichiel View Post
                -Castiel and Dean. Because it was played more like a one-shot episode with the two of them, I can get into the humour. And it WAS good humour. Castiel's confusion over Thelma and Louise and Teenage Mutant Ninja Angel references, the personal space line, Dean doing up his shirt getting him ready to be an FBI agent, how badly Castiel sucks at being an FBI agent (LOVED that!), Castiel's literal-ness ("How was it?" "Arid."), and the fabulous night out they had. Misha acted the best terrified look I've ever seen! And Dean's Prostitute 101 lesson!! As long as this isn't an every week thing, and it didn't seem like that where it is heading, I enjoy the break in tension.
                Same here. I thought that stuff was great. And it wasn't OTT, imo. Sometimes I think they can get a little carried away with the humor or have Dean throw in too many snarky references, but I think it was pretty well balanced in this ep...especially considering after I read the spoiler a while back that Dean was supposed to take Cas to a brothel...I kinda cringed.

                MC did an excellent job throughout in this episode.


                -The other hunters. Good to broaden the world of hunting a bit again, as long as it doesn't get into the boys going on group hunts or anything. I like their Lone Wolves status. But seeing how different hunters would react to Sam and his problem was cool. They actually wanted to dose him to "Hulk out" and kill for them?! Wow.
                I think this was tptb way of getting other hunters in on the mix as to what Sam did. I did think this was the weak point of the episode, but it was to make sure Sam couldn't just slide off into anonymity like he wanted to. Now hunters will be after him as well once word gets around.


                2. God is dead. Hmmm. That's a pretty big statement to make. If they had left it at that, as a certainty, I would have had problems. But the writers are still being careful with the God idea, so I am still willing to wait and see where they are going with this. I think it is wonderful that Castiel still believes He is around when so many higher up angels are in doubt.
                This was a very interesting conversation. It let's you in on the mindset of the upper angel echelon. They don't know what the frell is going on and have lost faith in the mission. Tired of waiting around, they decided to move up the time table for what they were seemingly promised. In a way, I suppose I can't really blame them. If only they weren't such jackasses maybe I could sympathize with them a little more.

                God is supposed to be more omnipotent and knowledgeable and infinite than we as humans can even conceive. So as a human, I don't see how God can die or be killed. Interesting that the angels who have supposedly seen God, think He's dead since apparently they haven't seen Him in a while.

                I'm still sticking with it was God that brought Cas back and put the brothers on the plane...or at least the plane deal seems 100% Him since Lucifer's plan was to have Sam there as his vessel.



                -Last note here on continuity and I'll put it in spoilers because it involves the preview for next week's episode. It is just a TINY little thing (I only saw it because I paused the tv on this frame) but just in case there is a die-hard anti-spoiler fan who doesn't even watch those for fear of having things spoiled.

                Spoiler:
                Did you see the wall behind the people coming after Dean in the alley? It had "Croatoan" spray painted across it!!!! What other show picks up seemingly dropped storylines like Supernatural!! Man, I love this show!
                Nice catch.
                Last edited by LoneStar1836; September 25, 2009, 12:03 PM.
                IMO always implied.

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                  #9
                  Crichiel, I kind of agree with your sentiment about Sam being the vessel. But I look for this to be an opportunity for Sam to redeem himself some how for releasing Lucifer.

                  Lucifer is a golden tongued angel, so he's going to use every trick in the book to get Sam to consent to be a vessel and its going to be a real test for Sam I think.

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                    #10
                    Great analysis again, Crichiel! I for one really enjoy your marathon posts, so please keep them coming!

                    Originally posted by Crichiel View Post
                    -Continuity. Supernatural is so incredible at getting the details right in this regard...with the exception of scars, the boys should look like Halloween monsters by this point! But small things like the tattoos and Dean still worried about getting his necklace back make me smile.


                    -Last note here on continuity and I'll put it in spoilers because it involves the preview for next week's episode. It is just a TINY little thing (I only saw it because I paused the tv on this frame) but just in case there is a die-hard anti-spoiler fan who doesn't even watch those for fear of having things spoiled.

                    Spoiler:
                    Did you see the wall behind the people coming after Dean in the alley? It had "Croatoan" spray painted across it!!!! What other show picks up seemingly dropped storylines like Supernatural!! Man, I love this show!
                    I agree, the way developments go back to little things that happened seasons ago is just amazing. Having written lengthy fanfic myself, though, I can say that quite often it's not planned that way. It's just that you get a new idea for a twist, and thinking back you find the perfect hook to hang it on. It does say a lot about the writers' dedication to the show that they remember these events from way back. It's not always the case. (Remember how they messed up Teyla's father's name on SGA, to name only one example?) And about that spoiler item you mentioned, I'm thrilled myself to see that particular storylined continued and explained.

                    -The other hunters. Good to broaden the world of hunting a bit again, as long as it doesn't get into the boys going on group hunts or anything. I like their Lone Wolves status. But seeing how different hunters would react to Sam and his problem was cool. They actually wanted to dose him to "Hulk out" and kill for them?! Wow.
                    That was another great twist I didn't see coming at all. But it makes so much sense, of course the other hunters would love to have somebody in their ranks who can kick some serious demon butt.

                    Trying not to stray into TMI, but in my life, I am kind of in Dean's position. We have a lot of family tension and I am the peacemaker. My siblings have their own lives and families to worry about, but I, being single, don't. So everyone figures I have the time and energy to mediate the drama. Last year, when I took my first vacation in 10 years (!), I couldn't believe how freeing it felt to have fun, doing something that I wanted to do without constantly heading off arguments! Did it mean that I didn't want to ever go back to my family? No. Without a family of my own, they are my lifeline, just like Dean. But for one weekend, it was nice to be free and I think that is where Dean's mindset is at the moment. He needs to take a step back, and take a deep breath before he charges back into the fray. And I believe it is this lack of emotional baggage that is making Dean such a laser-focused hunter right now.
                    Thanks for sharing this. Seeing it from where you are puts Dean's comments into a whole different perspective. And it makes more sense this way, I'm sure that's exactly how he means it. You remember after the brothel how Dean said he had not laughed like that in years? It shows how much the whole story with Sammy weighed on him.

                    2. God is dead. Hmmm. That's a pretty big statement to make. If they had left it at that, as a certainty, I would have had problems. But the writers are still being careful with the God idea, so I am still willing to wait and see where they are going with this. I think it is wonderful that Castiel still believes He is around when so many higher up angels are in doubt.
                    Having read the spoilers for later in the season that
                    Spoiler:
                    God would make an actual appearance later on the show
                    sort of quantified that statement for me.

                    3. Sam as Lucifer's vessel. *sigh* This is the first time this season that I have been VERY unhappy with the writers. I do not like this idea in the least. What has been so compelling about the brothers from the time Sam gets his first visions in season one is that Sam has something special about him....and Dean doesn't. For this arc, Dean was the viewer. The 'normal' one who could never truly understand or relate to what Sam has to deal with every day.

                    <snipped for length>

                    Nope. Don't like this twist of events...but as always, I'll reserve judgement until the end when I can look at it as a whole.
                    You make a very good point here, but I still tend to disagree. I don't see this so much as something that will push the brothers apart, but rather something that will bring them together. Basically, there's the same fate threatening them, and they both will try everything in their power to avoid it. It only makes sense for them to stick together and help each other.

                    As for the big showdown at the end, with (possessed) brother pitted against (possessed) brother, of course that was my first thought when I heard of this new development. But it would be the logical climax, and when have Kripke and the writers ever done what was expected? I'm sure they'll have a big surprise for us at the end, so like you said let's see what they make of this.

                    Now there was one thing I didn't get. Why did they have to leave the hospital to find Raffael? If Castiel wasn't expecting Raffael to take his former vessel right away, why did he pour the holy oil around him to contain him? And how did the vessel get to the house? That's the second time that I get the feeling - after the scene with the blood glyph in 5.01 - that they cut an important expository scene for time reasons.

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by starg8fans View Post
                      Now there was one thing I didn't get. Why did they have to leave the hospital to find Raffael? If Castiel wasn't expecting Raffael to take his former vessel right away, why did he pour the holy oil around him to contain him? And how did the vessel get to the house? That's the second time that I get the feeling - after the scene with the blood glyph in 5.01 - that they cut an important expository scene for time reasons.
                      I assumed that Cas has the same glyphs on his chest to hide him from angels and demons as such it would be hard for them to find him. So the scene in the Hospital was to let Raph know where they were. They knew he wouldn't just show but knew it would get his attention. As for him just appearing in the house Cas does that all the time with the brothers. I like to think of it as the Batman signature
                      Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side and a dark side and it holds the universe together
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                        #12
                        Originally posted by starg8fans View Post
                        As for the big showdown at the end, with (possessed) brother pitted against (possessed) brother, of course that was my first thought when I heard of this new development. But it would be the logical climax, and when have Kripke and the writers ever done what was expected? I'm sure they'll have a big surprise for us at the end, so like you said let's see what they make of this.
                        I do really wonder how this season will end now after this ep, but I don't know, tptb can be pretty straight forward with how they intend the season to end from the get go. S3 Dean was destined for Hell and in the end the Hell hounds got him.

                        While the showdown seems the obvious conclusion so we tend to think "Nah, they won't go for the obvious", but I'm not so sure. BUT we've got a long road ahead of us, so I'll have to wait and see how it plays out.

                        Now there was one thing I didn't get. Why did they have to leave the hospital to find Raffael? If Castiel wasn't expecting Raffael to take his former vessel right away, why did he pour the holy oil around him to contain him? And how did the vessel get to the house? That's the second time that I get the feeling - after the scene with the blood glyph in 5.01 - that they cut an important expository scene for time reasons.
                        They got tired of waiting? Apparently they spent all day there waiting for Rafael to show up as Dean snarked that was a wasted day he would never get back.

                        I think Cas was expecting that maybe Rafael would show up when he first called him. So he took all precautions. Cas probably thought he wouldn't pass up the immediate opportunity to smite him again.

                        When they left the hospital, they put out the fire or someone discovered the fire and put it out thus Rafael was able to retake control of his vessel and go find Cas.

                        They may have cut something for time, as it was an abrupt cut, but with Dean making that remark, I thought it was pretty clear as to what went down and why the transition.

                        IMO always implied.

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                          #13
                          I have one question: Where was the danger for Cas? The rite was quite easygoing, nothing dangerous at all. Did I miss something? Or was it all a cheat to lure Dean into taking him to the brothel?
                          The cake is a lie!

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by iolanda View Post
                            I have one question: Where was the danger for Cas? The rite was quite easygoing, nothing dangerous at all. Did I miss something? Or was it all a cheat to lure Dean into taking him to the brothel?
                            Probably cos if Raphiael had some how managed to get out of his ring of fire then the first thing he would have done was blow up Cas again.
                            Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by LoneStar1836 View Post
                              I do really wonder how this season will end now after this ep, but I don't know, tptb can be pretty straight forward with how they intend the season to end from the get go. S3 Dean was destined for Hell and in the end the Hell hounds got him.
                              True, but then everybody expected Dean to wiggle out of the deal at the last moment...

                              While the showdown seems the obvious conclusion so we tend to think "Nah, they won't go for the obvious", but I'm not so sure. BUT we've got a long road ahead of us, so I'll have to wait and see how it plays out.
                              Thank GOD we have a long road, or rather19 eps in front of us!

                              They got tired of waiting? Apparently they spent all day there waiting for Rafael to show up as Dean snarked that was a wasted day he would never get back.

                              I think Cas was expecting that maybe Rafael would show up when he first called him. So he took all precautions. Cas probably thought he wouldn't pass up the immediate opportunity to smite him again.

                              When they left the hospital, they put out the fire or someone discovered the fire and put it out thus Rafael was able to retake control of his vessel and go find Cas.

                              They may have cut something for time, as it was an abrupt cut, but with Dean making that remark, I thought it was pretty clear as to what went down and why the transition.

                              Oh, is that what he said? I didn't quite catch it. Now that makes sense, thanks for pointing this out.

                              Originally posted by iolanda View Post
                              I have one question: Where was the danger for Cas? The rite was quite easygoing, nothing dangerous at all. Did I miss something? Or was it all a cheat to lure Dean into taking him to the brothel?
                              Maybe he wasn't sure the holy oil would really work. After all, he was dealing with an archangel, who - as Cas said himself - are the fiercest angels of all. And this was one who had killed him once before, too.

                              BTW, that was one of my favorite lines.

                              Dean: "Isn't that like trying to catch a hurricane with a butterfly net?"
                              Cas: "No. It's harder."

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