Deep Space 9 Superior

[Trek_Girl42]

Haggis. Ewwww... [Boaks quietly in a corner...]

In other news, was watching Enterprise earlier, and got slightly exasperated at the premise of the episode. Reed accidentally left his communicator on a planet with a pre-warp civilisation. So far, so Trekky. But!

They couldn't find the thing! I mean, even now we have mobiles - sorry - cell-phones that have GPS chips in them. The nearest Hoshi could do was narrow the search to a few city blocks. Heh...

LOL. Yup. One of those things where you really have to wonder what were they thinking?

I know. But I went for more than one degree and opted for non-profit-ish work, and that's the reality of my choices--debt that hangs around and keeps my DVD collection small.

I feel like I'm looking at my future here. I'm going for a "useless" degree and the hopeful plan is to eventually go for my masters as well.....which I'm suspecting will cost a fortune. But I like my choices.

I do wonder when we'll reach that point. It's trending more and more in that direction, I think. And if you have internet access and a subscription service like Netflix, you have instant access to some films/TV shows. For instance, Netflix has the first three seasons of the new Doctor Who available to watch instantly, which I take advantage of from time to time (those BBC sets are expensive ).

I think we are headed in that direction- in pretty much all aspects of living, I suspect either the next generation, or the one after is going to be FAR less materialistic than we are, everything will go digital, and in general people will want fewer physical items taking up space.

[Ncc-72452]

Hi,

I'm kinda new to this thread, but I had a DS9 question that I wanted to get some opinions on. DS9 was famous (infamous) for killing its characters, mostly its secondary and guest characters. While I agree that it gives it a darker, more realistic quality, I sometimes think that they killed one too many.

As an example of what I mean, they ALMOST killed Garek in "The Search Part II." If they had (I always thought that he was in their crosshairs), one of my favorite episodes, "In the Pale Moonlight" would not have been possible. How many other missed stories were the result of prematurely killing a liked secondary character? I LOVED the Li Nalas character in the 3-part Season 2 opener ("The Homecoming," "The Circle," and "The Seige") and was really upset when he died. According to the DS9 Companion, they killed him because they felt they were being true to his character. However, it left them without a strong leader for Bajor and resulted in them having to bring in Shakaar to fill that role, and I feel that Li is a much better character (certainly more interesting) for that role.

I guess my question is do you guys, as fellow DS9 fans, feel the same way, or do you feel that they didn't kill enough, or maybe that they struck the perfect balance? Thanks.

[nx01a]

Hi,
Hello.
I'm kinda new to this thread, but I had a DS9 question that I wanted to get some opinions on. DS9 was famous (infamous) for killing its characters, mostly its secondary and guest characters. While I agree that it gives it a darker, more realistic quality, I sometimes think that they killed one too many.
Thanks.
You're welcome.

Er... Ok. I've never honestly thought of DS9 as being a show where no one was safe but the main cast. I'm trying to think who died on the show of consequence...
Jadzia [moreso actress-initiated than writer-initiated]
Ziyal
Weyoun [a few times]
Vedek Bareil...
I'm drawing a blank apart from that. Winn and Dukat died in the finale, but it's the finale.

Li Nalas served his purpose. He was NOT a strong leader and did his most heroic act by dying and becoming more of a mythic figure to inspire Bajorans.

I'd say that, IMHO, DS9 certainly did set up a few people we liked [or disliked, whichever] and knocked em down [Ziyal, Bareil], but it was nowhere near the level of character killage [my new term] or turnaround from say B5 [Keffer, Sinclair, Talia, Ivanova, Marcus, Na'toth]. I was quite happy with who they killed and how they were killed.

[Ncc-72452]

Well, I won't compile a full list, but...

Season 1:

Kai Opaka (killed then brought to life, then left behind)
Ammon Miritza (LOVED him AKA Gul Dar'heel)

Season 2:

Li Nalas (Not a weak leader IMO, a tortured character that would be the PERFECT leader of Bajor, IMO. Suffering to play the roll his people needed him to play)
Kang
Koloth
The Odyssey (whimper)

Season 3:

Entek
Bareil
Tain
...

This could go on a while... The big ones I remember after that are Martok (but they brought him back, thank God), Gowron, Ziyal, Muinez, Kor (I have less of a complaint about him), for all intents and purposes Kurn, Mirror Jennifer, Eddington, and Dax (as you said, not their choice).

Granted, some of these are single episode appearances, but I felt that they were interesting characters, but they just killed. It's like their phasers didn't have a stun setting in DS9...

[Descent]

Guest characters that die in the episode that they are introduced in are no big deal. Voyager did that every once in a while as well. As did TNG.

Also...

Spoiler:

Tain didn't actually die until Season 5.

Like nx said, I never felt like it was a show where "no one was safe".

[nx01a]

I'd say that the one-episode people are par for the Trek cannon fodder course.
The only problem with Opaka was that they never revisited her situation. Taking her out of the picture allowed even more power struggles on Bajor, and our beloved Winn to cause all kinds of strife. The same with destroying the Odyssey: it really upped the stakes for the quadrant and shocked people. The middle-aged captain who was an intentional Picard-type commanding a Galaxy... That could easily have been the Enterprise D had it been in range at the time.

That's just me, of course. What do y'all other DS9 lovers think?
Thanks , Descent. You beat me to Tain.

[Ncc-72452]

Guest characters that die in the episode that they are introduced in are no big deal. Voyager did that every once in a while as well. As did TNG.

Also...

Spoiler:

Tain didn't actually die until Season 5.

Like nx said, I never felt like it was a show where "no one was safe".

On my list, only Miritza, The Odyssey, and Entek were one episode wonders... The rest spanned at least 2 eps, if not 2 series in some cases.

Correct about Tain, I meant to put him with the list of others at the end, but somehow he ended up under Season 3 *grins*.

Okay, gotcha.

I'd say that the one-episode people are par for the Trek cannon fodder course.
The only problem with Opaka was that they never revisited her situation. Taking her out of the picture allowed even more power struggles on Bajor, and our beloved Winn to cause all kinds of strife. The same with destroying the Odyssey: it really upped the stakes for the quadrant and shocked people. The middle-aged captain who was an intentional Picard-type commanding a Galaxy... That could easily have been the Enterprise D had it been in range at the time.

That's just me, of course. What do y'all other DS9 lovers think?
Thanks , Descent. You beat me to Tain.

*Big Grin*

Not in this space time continuum...

[jelgate]

I'd say that the one-episode people are par for the Trek cannon fodder course.
The only problem with Opaka was that they never revisited her situation. Taking her out of the picture allowed even more power struggles on Bajor, and our beloved Winn to cause all kinds of strife. The same with destroying the Odyssey: it really upped the stakes for the quadrant and shocked people. The middle-aged captain who was an intentional Picard-type commanding a Galaxy... That could easily have been the Enterprise D had it been in range at the time.

That's just me, of course. What do y'all other DS9 lovers think?
Thanks , Descent. You beat me to Tain.

I thought the Odyssey was to show the Dominion's power. The way Dax describes him the captain of the Odyessey was a seasoned officer well versed until military and Star Fleet tatics. And the Odyessey was a Galaxy class starship. At the time it was one of the most powerful ships in the fleet.

[Ncc-72452]

I thought the Odyssey was to show the Dominion's power. The way Dax describes him the captain of the Odyessey was a seasoned officer well versed until military and Star Fleet tatics. And the Odyessey was a Galaxy class starship. At the time it was one of the most powerful ships in the fleet.

Their power and their determination (suicide run).

That's ostensibly what they were going for. "Look, our new bad guy can destroy a TNG analog." Which is fine, Voyager did the whole, "Look, our new bad guy can beat the Borg." I admit to finding it a little odd that the Jem'Hadar weapons were doing so much damage to the Oddy, but a runabout could take a couple of hits and not be utterly destroyed (and that Oddy never once fired a photon torp, and only weakly shot back with its phasers despite diverting shield power to weapons).

BTW, IMO, Galaxy -class are still among the most powerful ships in the fleet.

[Ryan24]

I recently just got done watching all of DS9 and it is by far my favorite star trek series!

[the Fifth Race]

H I guess my question is do you guys, as fellow DS9 fans, feel the same way, or do you feel that they didn't kill enough, or maybe that they struck the perfect balance? Thanks.

Hi ya NCC, welcome to the DS9 thread. That is an interesting question you pose. Certainly DS9 had its fair share of the killing off of characters, but so did all the other Trek series. Star Trek has always portrayed space travel and interacting with other races/species as dangerous (as it should). That first season of TNG was brutal (body and head dismemberment's galore) . Both VOY, TOS, and even ENT to a lesser degree, also had a healthy dose of violence. Maybe it was more accepted on DS9 considering they were at war with the Dominion, not to mention the conflicts with the Klingons and Romulans. After-all TPTB wanted the Cardassian occupation of Bajor to emulate Nazi's treatment of Jews in particular.

Over-all and IMHO - All the various Star Trek series has always been fairly violent shows. But I do believe they have managed to balance it out quite well. DS9 was not afraid to be darker compared to other Trek series, but it never managed to cross the line in to gratutious violence or bad taste. Unless of course you are talking about Quark dressing in drag. LOL

I recently just got done watching all of DS9 and it is by far my favorite star trek series!

Outstanding. As much as I truly love all Star Trek - DS9 is definitely a cut above.

[nx01a]

Their power and their determination (suicide run).
That's ostensibly what they were going for. "Look, our new bad guy can destroy a TNG analog." Which is fine, Voyager did the whole, "Look, our new bad guy can beat the Borg." I admit to finding it a little odd that the Jem'Hadar weapons were doing so much damage to the Oddy, but a runabout could take a couple of hits and not be utterly destroyed (and that Oddy never once fired a photon torp, and only weakly shot back with its phasers despite diverting shield power to weapons).
BTW, IMO, Galaxy -class are still among the most powerful ships in the fleet.

The Jem'Hadar wanted to send the biggest message possible. Just like the female shapeshifter let the 1st Defiant escape pods go in order to demoralize others, I think they intentionally left the runabouts alone to spread the word that a galaxy class got PUNK'D! Also, the point was to let Eris become part of the DS9 crew... and she was aboard one of those runabouts.

I recently just got done watching all of DS9 and it is by far my favorite star trek series!

Glad to hear! Welcome!

[jelgate]

The Jem'hadar wanted to send the biggest message possible. Just like the female shapeshifter let the 1st Defiant escape pods go in order to demoralize others, I think they intentionally left the runabouts alone to spread the word that a galaxy class got PUNK'D! Also, the point was to let Eris becoem part of the DS9 crew... and she was aboard one of those runabouts.

Don't you think its kind of sad that they never revisted the Vorta's mental powers. DS9 is the best Trek but it has its flaws just like any show. I think it was a serious flaw to never revisit the Vorta's mental capabilities just like it was a serious flaw to never revisit the TNG parasites.

[nx01a]

Parasites? Nah. They were good for a freaky episode for me, but the Borg and their version of hive infestation/control were infinitely more scary.
As for Eris' mental abilities... I always assumed they were bred into or otherwise given to her for that particular situation.

[jelgate]

Parasites? Nah. They were good for a freaky episode for me, but the Borg and their version of hive infestation/control were infinitely more scary.

But the storyline was never completed. I hate unfinished arcs. Somthing else DS9 did over the other shows. Most of their arcs had some resolution

As for Eris' mental abilities... I always assumed they were bred into or otherwise given to her for that particular situation.

I don't see the point in that episode of giving a person mental abilities. Eris wouldn't have been caught as easy if she didn't have that fake locking device.