Originally posted by Missster.Freeman
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Originally posted by Missster.FreemanHave you seen all of season 7 yet Trek_Girl42? If you haven't don't click the spoiler below.
Ah, I can out creep you HirogenGator.Spoiler:Dukat and Kai Winn were doing the nasty with each other. The thought of them sharing a bed made my skin crawl...
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Originally posted by HirogenGaterThere are quite a few great episodes in season 7.
Archer: Lieutenant Mayweather tells me we'll be arriving at Kronos in about eighty hours. Any chance he'll be conscious by then?
Phlox: There's a chance he'll be conscious within the next ten minutes... just not a very good one.
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Originally posted by Missster.FreemanHave you seen all of season 7 yet Trek_Girl42? If you haven't don't click the spoiler below.
Ah, I can out creep you HirogenGator.Spoiler:Dukat and Kai Winn were doing the nasty with each other. The thought of them sharing a bed made my skin crawl...
Back on topic, no matter how much of a creep he was there was something that made me enjoy watching him. Even if it was just to see what mood he was in... Pretty much anything with Dukat was enjoyable.
The center of Khlysty surrounds me
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What the heck is it with Dukat?. He one of the most insidious evil villains there has ever been in any scifi genre, movie or series....In 2002, Dukat placed fourth in TV Zone's list of the top twenty science fiction television villains. The Borg Queen was second, Weyoun was eighth, Q was eleventh and Seska was nineteenth.....Yet he is sometimes likable and pleasant. He has had at least 6 assassination attempts on his life, his father was executed by the Obsidian Order, he gave up his rank as Legate to remain a Gul, yet he smiled through it all while maintaining his charm the whole time.
Mad genius?...maybe
Misunderstood patriot?...HA!
Delusional megalomania?...definetly
You try to put any kind of tag on the guy and nothing quite fits his persona.
I really wonder how much of the brilliance of his character is due the great writing and character development or is most of the credit due to Marc Alaimo's acting ability?.
I find Moore's take on Dukat fascinating....
Ronald D. Moore commented:
I don't think of him as being completely evil through and through to the point where every thought, every impulse is shaded by a nefarious agenda or horrid motive. We've seen other aspects to this guy over the years. He *can* be charming. He *can* be generous. He *can* do the right thing. All of that somehow makes his "evil" actions all the more dispicable, because we know that there was the potential in there for him to be a better person. But sometimes the cliches are true: Hitler loved his dog. No human being (and by extension, no Cardassian) is one hundred percent pure evil. But there is a "critical mass", if you will, where the dark deeds attributed to one person become so overwhelming that they swamp all the redeeming characteristics. Dukat is a bad guy. A very bad guy. He has a lot of blood on his hands and it's hard to see how his smile and innate charm can wipe that clean.
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Originally posted by Brigadier General PantsAnd the finale was not my fave in the ST universe... but still enjoyable.
1. "What You Leave Behind" and "All Good Things..." - Awesome. Everything I had hoped for. If I were in their shoes, I wouldn't have done anything differently. WYLB even got me glassy eyed during the last 20 minutes which rarely ever happens to me.
2. "Endgame" - Good on some levels, not as good on others. Most of it was good but it was not everything it should have been under the circumstances, IMO.
3. "These are the Voyages..." - Nope. Ball dropped. I'm not even gonna go into this one.sigpic
"Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence."
DS9 Superior|Farscape|Legend of the Seeker|Stargate Universe|STAR WARS
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Originally posted by the Fifth RaceI really wonder how much of the brilliance of his character is due the great writing and character development or is most of the credit due to Marc Alaimo's acting ability?
Originally posted by DescentThis is how I would pair up the ST finales:
1. "What You Leave Behind" and "All Good Things..." - Awesome. Everything I had hoped for. If I were in their shoes, I wouldn't have done anything differently. WYLB even got me glassy eyed during the last 20 minutes which rarely ever happens to me.
2. "Endgame" - Good on some levels, not as good on others. Most of it was good but it was not everything it should have been under the circumstances, IMO.
3. "These are the Voyages..." - Nope. Ball dropped. I'm not even gonna go into this one.
But still, as I said before, it was a big ask to wrap up such a big show.
Archer: Lieutenant Mayweather tells me we'll be arriving at Kronos in about eighty hours. Any chance he'll be conscious by then?
Phlox: There's a chance he'll be conscious within the next ten minutes... just not a very good one.
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Originally posted by DescentThis is how I would pair up the ST finales:
1. "What You Leave Behind" and "All Good Things..." - Awesome. Everything I had hoped for. If I were in their shoes, I wouldn't have done anything differently. WYLB even got me glassy eyed during the last 20 minutes which rarely ever happens to me.
2. "Endgame" - Good on some levels, not as good on others. Most of it was good but it was not everything it should have been under the circumstances, IMO.
The series finale of DS9 was awe inspiring, the way the Dominion war played out with the Damar/Kira, Pai Wriaths, Section 31 and the Founder disease, the Breen, Cardassian fleet rebeling, solidifying the Klingon/Federation alliance, the Romulans ...etc... was very satisfying and better than I ever imagined. DS9 had a true ending, TPTB took there time (3 1/2 seasons) to build up to end, nothing was rushed and the quality shined through.
Even though, overall, I don't rank Voyager as highly as DS9 or TNG, I did enjoy the ending of the series, sure there were plot holes and it all seemed contrived and way to convienant, but it did have an ending.
Originally posted by Brigadier General PantsI liked all the wrap-ups except ENT's, but I thought "All Good Things" succeeded at least partially because it wasn't really a finale - they knew they were going on to feature films, so TPTB didn't feel the pressure to wrap everything up so neatly. "What You Leave Behind" tried to do that, and I didn't feel the denouement was as neat as intended... I mean, Sisko is this major figure of Bajoran prophecy, and in the end, his big job was to flying tackle Gul Dukat?
As far as how they left the Sisko storyline (with him joining the Prophets) at the end of DS9 was surprising, but a nice surprise!. It was one of only a few open links they left on DS9 where it could be explored later in a movie or novel.
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Originally posted by USS DefiantI'm with you there
The series finale of DS9 was awe inspiring, the way the Dominion war played out with the Damar/Kira, Pai Wriaths, Section 31 and the Founder disease, the Breen, Cardassian fleet rebeling, solidifying the Klingon/Federation alliance, the Romulans ...etc... was very satisfying and better than I ever imagined. DS9 had a true ending, TPTB took there time (3 1/2 seasons) to build up to end, nothing was rushed and the quality shined through.
Originally posted by USS DefiantAs far as how they left the Sisko storyline (with him joining the Prophets) at the end of DS9 was surprising, but a nice surprise!. It was one of only a few open links they left on DS9 where it could be explored later in a movie or novel.
Archer: Lieutenant Mayweather tells me we'll be arriving at Kronos in about eighty hours. Any chance he'll be conscious by then?
Phlox: There's a chance he'll be conscious within the next ten minutes... just not a very good one.
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Originally posted by DescentThis is how I would pair up the ST finales:
1. "What You Leave Behind" and "All Good Things..." - Awesome. Everything I had hoped for. If I were in their shoes, I wouldn't have done anything differently. WYLB even got me glassy eyed during the last 20 minutes which rarely ever happens to me.
Originally posted by Descent2. "Endgame" - Good on some levels, not as good on others. Most of it was good but it was not everything it should have been under the circumstances, IMO.
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Originally posted by Brigadier General PantsI thought the whole series played out so well; I'm with you on that. And I did definitely enjoy the finale. I guess I'm being picky because it was just so gosh darn good overallSpoiler:Dukat and the Kai Winn die miserably in the fire caves
Originally posted by Brigadier General PantsI did like that angle too (about what happened to Sisko). They could leave it hanging or explore it, either way it worked.
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Originally posted by the Fifth RaceI also would not have minded one bit if Dukat would have turned face at the end and joined the Cardassian insurgency with Damar and Kira.
Originally posted by the Fifth RaceHave you ever read any of the many DS9 canon novels that followed the series BGP?.
Archer: Lieutenant Mayweather tells me we'll be arriving at Kronos in about eighty hours. Any chance he'll be conscious by then?
Phlox: There's a chance he'll be conscious within the next ten minutes... just not a very good one.
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Originally posted by Brigadier General PantsYet another reason I liked Dukat. I think I would have been happy if he had stayed bad or gone good... there was always that touch of ambivalence which meant it really could have gone either way. But it was apt that Sisko's enemy from the beginning was his nemesis at the end.
The more we talk about Dukat the more I appreciate his character. He was so easy to hate the first time I watched DS9 during its original airing, but the more times I re-watch these seasons over and over the more I get into the individual characters. Bashir was another character I never really cared for that much during the original airing, but after re-watching DS9 several times he is now at the top of my list.
Originally posted by Brigadier General PantsNo! I've been looking for the relaunch novels locally, but I think I may have to use Amazon.
There was another canon story about how Sisko comes back to DS9 after 5 years to help Bajor and the Federation.
There are also some good books that follow the exploration of the Gamma Quadrant right after the Dominion war ends.
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Originally posted by the Fifth RaceI guess Dukat couldn't beat Sisko the Federation officer so he tried to destroy Sisko the emissary. I still believe Dukat when it's all peeled away was someone who wanted to be appreciated and respected above anything else. I mean we all strive for respect and appreciation from family, friends and peers, but Dukat was so obsessed with it that he destroyed everyone and everything around him trying to obtain the impossible.
Originally posted by the Fifth RaceThe more we talk about Dukat the more I appreciate his character. He was so easy to hate the first time I watched DS9 during its original airing, but the more times I re-watch these seasons over and over the more I get into the individual characters.
Originally posted by the Fifth RaceBashir was another character I never really cared for that much during the original airing, but after re-watching DS9 several times he is now at the top of my list.
Originally posted by the Fifth RaceI have read a few canon and non-canon novels where Sisko was involved
Archer: Lieutenant Mayweather tells me we'll be arriving at Kronos in about eighty hours. Any chance he'll be conscious by then?
Phlox: There's a chance he'll be conscious within the next ten minutes... just not a very good one.
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