Deep Space 9 Superior

[gopher65]

I just get sick of being told that I am the intolerant one based on my personal beliefs. It is obvious to me that you are intolerant of opinions that differ from yours. Try practicing some tolerance why don't you?
Ok that's it for me tonight.

EDIT: Don't take this as being persnickety, cause it wasn't meant that way. I could have been on Valium when I wrote all this. I had no negative emotional reaction whatsoever. (Which is rare for me, so that makes me happy.)

You claim that you have the right to force your morality on others (by voting yes on prop 8). However, in the same breath, you claim that others do not have a right to force their morality on you. Which is it? Either people can force their morality on others, or they can't. You can't claim that you have a right to enforce your morality, but then claim that others can't do the same thing to you. That is hypocritical in the extreme.

I've seen this same argument from smokers. "I have a RIGHT to smoke. It is a free country! People don't have a right to tell me what I can and can't do to myself!"

Alright. That's why I don't support alcohol bans. But I do support drunk driving bans. Why? Cause drunk driving can hurt ME. And so can smoking. People can do whatever they want, believe whatever they want, provided that they are only affecting themselves. A smoker says that they have a right not to be interfered with; well, I say that I have that same right.

That is the nature of a society. Each of us has a right not to be interfered with for the nature of our beliefs... but only if we aren't hurting others. For by hurting others a person interferes with other people, and that isn't allowed. That's what Freedom is. The right not to interfere or be interfered with.

[gopher65]

As an addendum:

Before anyone supports giving the government the right to enforce morality, they should ask themselves, "but what if someone who believes differently than I do gets elected?"

Example: The Terry Schiavo case in Florida. The husband believed that she was braindead. He wanted to pull the plug. He had the right to pull the plug, under the law. But others decided that they didn't feel that was moral. So they decided to go to the government. Jeb Bush believed the same thing, so he attempted to force his morality upon Schiavo's husband. He failed, but that's not the point, because many people wish he had succeeded.

But what if he had succeeded? Ok. He stops Schiavo from having her lifesupport cut off.
"Wooooot!!" you say. But in allowing him to make that decision, you just gave the government the right to make moral decisions for people.

So let's turn it around. Bush leaves office. Let's say that the next person to get into office is a Democrat. Not just any Democrat, but a damned dirty Atheist! Ouch, huh? Now, you live in Florida. Your.... husband, or wife, or mother (or whatever) has an accident, and goes into a coma. After several months and vigorous testing and creative treatments that all fail, the doctors at the hospital declare your relative braindead.

But you don't believe it. You think that there is still the possibility of a "miracle" or something. You don't want to pull the plug. The hospital staff objects, and someone sneakily calls in the media. The Governor hears about it. Uh oh.... Democrat Atheist! And you'd just finished giving old Jeb the neocon all the powers you could! Darn. You're up ****creek without a paddle now.

So the Governor says something like, "This person is braindead. They are taking up massive amounts of resources that could be going to other people instead. Poor people. Therefore, for the greater good, I'm pulling the plug."

(As an aside, Atheists generally believe in personal freedom in the extreme, so it is highly unlikely that an Atheist would ever do this. But according to polls the majority of the US population puts Atheists somewhere just above demon worshippers on their "kill them all cause we hates them!" list, so I'm using them as an example due to the hatred most Americans feel toward them.)

Always remember when you're thinking about stuff like this: turn it around. Flip it every which way, and try to imagine a way that it can turn against you if things go sour.

As for prop 8, well. You've just given the government the ability to dictate law based entirely upon religious precepts. Why is that a bad thing from your point of view? After all, Christians are in the majority in the US, so that means that they can always win moralistic fights like this, right?

Well... yes. For now. But... the newest publicly stated (and peaceful) tactic of the more moderate wings of the Muslim extremists is to move into Western countries and outbreed Christians. Then take over the countries from the inside out. Not even Mormons breed as fast as they do in Islamic countries. So always remember: you may not always be in the majority. You may not always be in control. Think VERY VERY carefully before you give your government these extreme powers over your life.

[Pitry]

I see the conversation has gone from politics to religion, how argumentatively predictable.

Is this the part where I look guilty adn offer cookies as my penance? Cos I have no cookies. I do have a freshly baked carrot cake, though!

[jelgate]

Is this the part where I look guilty adn offer cookies as my penance? Cos I have no cookies. I do have a freshly baked carrot cake, though!

*steals

You had a carrot cake

They go together because religion tends to define politics

[Pitry]

*steals

You had a carrot cake

They go together because religion tends to define politics

HEEEEEY!!!!! I was perfectly willing to share a slice with people.... but the whole cake?! Mine! Mine! Mine! [/seagulls].

[Jumper_One]

Is this the part where I look guilty adn offer cookies as my penance? Cos I have no cookies. I do have a freshly baked carrot cake, though!

did someone mention cookies?

Spoiler:

[Pitry]

I hope these are chocolate chips rather than some odd somethingberry!!

[./freelancer]

Let me be the first to rave about SGA's 'The Prodigal'!

Spoiler:

RAVE!

I loved it. I want Teyla to be my mommy.

I don't, cause I don't wanna be attracted to my mommy...that would just be weird...
But yeah, the episode was awesome!

Spoiler:

What a great ending to the Michael arc!

(cause there's no way he could have survived that fall, right? Right?)

And what's this I'm hearing about cookies?

[nx01a]

If Ford can do it, so can he. Teyla's kick butt, in this case literally.
I don't think I enjoyed the mid-season Daniel episodes this much, which is saying something. I wrote a mini-review in the general discussion thread.
And Ronon's illiterate. At least he admits it.

[./freelancer]

Gotta love his report though...

Spoiler:

"Michael infiltrated Atlantis, tried to blow it up. We stopped him. End of report."

[jelgate]

If Ford can do it, so can he. Teyla's kick butt, in this case literally.I don't think I enjoyed the mid-season Daniel episodes this much, which is saying something. I wrote a mini-review in the general discussion thread.And Ronon's illiterate. At least he admits it.

Illiterate in English

[nx01a]

He's probably illiterate in Satedan!
I really wanted to see him show some signs of growth, that he wasn't really just the thug of the team, but obviously he's content to be just that. He's a thug with a certain instinctive danger sense and tactical knowledge, but little else. The energy gun helps.
And God knows how he

Spoiler:

survived that fall without serious back injuries. Michael survived his fall just the same way.

[./freelancer]

He's probably illiterate in Satedan!
I really wanted to see him show some signs of growth, that he wasn't really just the thug of the team, but obviously he's content to be just that. He's a thug with a certain instinctive danger sense and tactical knowledge, but little else. The energy gun helps.
And God knows how he

Spoiler:

survived that fall without serious back injuries. Michael survived his fall just the same way.

Heh, I'd be happy with being illiterate on Atlantis if it helped me avoid the paperwork. I hate that

[Trek_Girl42]

Ugh, I've been laid up with a very nasty case of stomach flu since Thursday, but have been following the rather entertaining political/religious debate over the last few days! *cough* Okay, not my frst choice of distractions, but that's what you get when you don't have a tv in your room.....

As an addendum:

Before anyone supports giving the government the right to enforce morality, they should ask themselves, "but what if someone who believes differently than I do gets elected?"

Example: The Terry Schiavo case in Florida. The husband believed that she was braindead. He wanted to pull the plug. He had the right to pull the plug, under the law. But others decided that they didn't feel that was moral. So they decided to go to the government. Jeb Bush believed the same thing, so he attempted to force his morality upon Schiavo's husband. He failed, but that's not the point, because many people wish he had succeeded.

But what if he had succeeded? Ok. He stops Schiavo from having her lifesupport cut off.
"Wooooot!!" you say. But in allowing him to make that decision, you just gave the government the right to make moral decisions for people.

So let's turn it around. Bush leaves office. Let's say that the next person to get into office is a Democrat. Not just any Democrat, but a damned dirty Atheist! Ouch, huh? Now, you live in Florida. Your.... husband, or wife, or mother (or whatever) has an accident, and goes into a coma. After several months and vigorous testing and creative treatments that all fail, the doctors at the hospital declare your relative braindead.

But you don't believe it. You think that there is still the possibility of a "miracle" or something. You don't want to pull the plug. The hospital staff objects, and someone sneakily calls in the media. The Governor hears about it. Uh oh.... Democrat Atheist! And you'd just finished giving old Jeb the neocon all the powers you could! Darn. You're up ****creek without a paddle now.

So the Governor says something like, "This person is braindead. They are taking up massive amounts of resources that could be going to other people instead. Poor people. Therefore, for the greater good, I'm pulling the plug."

(As an aside, Atheists generally believe in personal freedom in the extreme, so it is highly unlikely that an Atheist would ever do this. But according to polls the majority of the US population puts Atheists somewhere just above demon worshippers on their "kill them all cause we hates them!" list, so I'm using them as an example due to the hatred most Americans feel toward them.)

Always remember when you're thinking about stuff like this: turn it around. Flip it every which way, and try to imagine a way that it can turn against you if things go sour.

As for prop 8, well. You've just given the government the ability to dictate law based entirely upon religious precepts. Why is that a bad thing from your point of view? After all, Christians are in the majority in the US, so that means that they can always win moralistic fights like this, right?

Well... yes. For now. But... the newest publicly stated (and peaceful) tactic of the more moderate wings of the Muslim extremists is to move into Western countries and outbreed Christians. Then take over the countries from the inside out. Not even Mormons breed as fast as they do in Islamic countries. So always remember: you may not always be in the majority. You may not always be in control. Think VERY VERY carefully before you give your government these extreme powers over your life.

Gopher, your post just put a very big grin on my face.


In regards to the latest Atlantis ep. This one entertained me. And as much as I love

Spoiler:

Conner Trinner, thank god for ending a storyline several seasons past best before date. I have really REALLY come to hate every appearence Michael puts in. Which makes me sad. Because I like Conner Trinner and was so excited when he first came on the show.

[Pitry]

I don't believe Ronon's illiterate, I'm pretty sure it was an excuse not to write reports.

And I don't know, I really thought Connor Trineer's performance in the episode wasn't up to his usual standards. I mean, hate the Michael episodes with a passion but I didn't usually have a problem with the acting. This week, I did.