Deep Space 9 Superior

[nx01a]

the G'Kar-London storyline

I remember that storyline... The Fall of London Bridge, featuring Jack the Ripper, aka the Inquisitor.

B5 's 5th season wasn't horrible. The telepaths ruined the beginning, but the rest of it was great.

[Pitry]

I remember that storyline... The Fall of London Bridge, featuring Jack the Ripper, aka the Inquisitor.

B5 's 5th season wasn't horrible. The telepaths ruined the beginning, but the rest of it was great.

Blah,t here shoudln't've been an extra n there

Byron was horrible. Really. Funny thing is, the first time I started watching B5 I caught them at the end of season 4 and watched season 5 - DS9 and Stargate were both on a break and I needed a science fiction fixation. And catching it then I was sure this is just a bad DS9 rip off... it wasn;t til years afterwards I watched the entire series and saw how wrong I was!

[Pitry]

I'm on the fence with whether I would have preferred Paramount's vision of S8 where the Dominion War carry's on for 1 more season. Or the version RDM and the other writers wanted with the storyline picking up 1 year after the end of the Dominion War. -- Both versions potentially could have been great.

There was also talk about doing an all DS9 movie that involved the Gamma Quadrant. I will look in my old convention notes to see if I can find exactly what the idea's were for an all DS9 movie.

I guess I failed to mention that there was plenty of talk about doing a DS9 Trek movie. Paramount talked about doing a cross-over movie where characters from DS9 and VOY would join characters from TNG for an unstated storyline.

Personally, I think they did th Dominion War pretty well - especially when you consider it always came in relatively short bursts and a lot of "other story" in between - but RDM's optional season 8 actually sounds pretty good to me, could have been interesting to see that.

[USS Defiant]

I remember that storyline... The Fall of London Bridge, featuring Jack the Ripper, aka the Inquisitor.

I just watched that episode (Comes the Inquisitor) not more than a month ago. Maybe the Vorlons should revisit Earth and take all the serial killers with them, brilliant stuff. Delenne was off the hook great in this episode.

B5 's 5th season wasn't horrible.

It wasn't very good either (in IMHO of course). There were some very good episodes but they were hit and miss. I agree with brother Fifth in that I would have been happy to see it end right after S4 or extend the "Earth vs. Babylon 5 struggle" another season. God knows they had plenty room with such a wonderfully sweeping and complex storyline.

[USS Defiant]

Personally, I think they did th Dominion War pretty well - especially when you consider it always came in relatively short bursts and a lot of "other story" in between - but RDM's optional season 8 actually sounds pretty good to me, could have been interesting to see that.

I whole heartedly agree Lady shroom. IMHO DS9 produced the largest number of truly great stand-alone episodes from any of the Trek series. Some of my favorite stand alone episodes are ... Far Beyond the Stars ... Past Tense Parts: I & II ... Duet ... In the Hands of the Prophets ... Improbable Cause ... The Homecoming ... Necessary Evil ... Whispers ... Blood Oath ... The Wire (great Garak episode) ... Crossover ... Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges ... Trials and Tribble-ations ... Nor the Battle to the Strong ... Children of Time ... The Sword of Kahless ... Hard Time ... Shattered Mirror (my favorite Alternate Universe episode). And I'm sure I am forgetting quite a few.

Some of those storylines that RDM purposed do look sweet. I especially love the idea of Kira taking over the station and becoming the focul point of the show. I love the idea of Quark coming back as Ferengi ambassador to the Gamma Quadrant. I also like how both Bashir and Ezri were on board with another season (maybe Siddig's and Visitor's marriage would have stayed together if the show lived on) Bringing back the Jem'Hadar especially with them seeking autonomy and joining the Federation would have been interesting and fun to watch. I also would have loved to see Sisko return for the end of S8.

[./freelancer]

It wasn't very good either (in IMHO of course). There were some very good episodes but they were hit and miss. I agree with brother Fifth in that I would have been happy to see it end right after S4 or extend the "Earth vs. Babylon 5 struggle" another season. God knows they had plenty room with such a wonderfully sweeping and complex storyline.

Most of S05 was pretty bad imo (I only remember three or four good episodes). In case some of you don't know this, the "main" storyline was originally supposed to span all five seasons. However, during season 4 they weren't sure whether or not the show would actually get another season, so they had to put all of the important stuff in that season instead. When season 5 was confirmed, they didn't really have any of the main stuff left for it (except Sleeping in Light, which was actually supposed to be the season 4 finale when they thought they wouldn't get another season).

[nx01a]

Thanks, lance. You got there before I did.
JMS rushed his storyline to make sure he finished it, then had to make stuff up for s5 when it was greenlit by the idiots of TPTB. That's why we had to look at Tracey Scoggins as yet another Sheridan ex-wife instead of Claudia/Ivanova, Claudia wasn't willing to potentially be unemployed if there wasn't a 5th season. Of course, he could have made better stuff up, but the second half of the season was good, IMO.

[Whitestar]

I'm sure all of you have heard the lastest horrific tragedy in Canada, but just in case you haven't here are two articles on the subject of a man beheaded by his fellow passenger:


Children see man decapitate fellow passenger on Greyhound bus in Canada

Elana Schor in Washington
The Guardian,
Friday August 1 2008
Article history

It came out of nowhere, passengers on the Canadian Greyhound bus said. A young man was sleeping, head against the window, when the man sitting next to him began stabbing and then decapitating him as other travellers looked on in horror.

The grisly and apparently random evening attack, on a bus bound for Winnipeg, ended with police apprehending the assailant hours later.

The 37 passengers who witnessed the carnage, including several children, were left to relay their shocking tale of the man wearing sunglasses who suddenly pulled out a hunting knife.

"We heard this blood-curdling scream and turned around, and the guy was standing up, stabbing this guy sitting next to him repeatedly, like 40 or 50 times," passenger Garnet Caton told the Canadian press.

"When he was attacking him, he was calm - it was like he was at the beach," added Caton, who was sitting in front of the victim. "There was no rage or anything. He was just like a robot stabbing the guy."

The terrified passengers fled immediately, taking shelter along the side of the road as the bus driver disabled the vehicle so the attacker could not escape.

Caton and the driver soon returned to the vehicle, however, and found the assailant still hacking the young man's body into pieces.

The severed head of the victim, described as in his 20s, was then displayed to the stunned passengers.

"He went back to his seat and brought the head to the front and pretty much displayed it to us like that, and then dropped it on the ground in front of us," Caton said.

The attack took place just after 10pm outside the small town of Portage La Prairie, Manitoba. The bus originated in Edmonton, about 840 miles away from its final destination.

The Canadian mounted police took the passengers to a nearby hotel while they began an investigation.

The identities of the victim and the suspect will not be released pending the notification of family members.

Greyhound spokeswoman Abby Wambaugh offered condolences to the victim's family.

The company plans to provide the witnesses with any assistance they need, including trauma counselling and transportation.

"The incident was very tragic but was an isolated event," Wambaugh said. "Bus travel has been and remains the safest mode of travel in the country."

The attack left Canadian officials grasping for explanations. Stockwell Day, the public safety minister, said the assailant should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

"This particular incident, as horrific as it is, is obviously extremely rare," Day told the Canadian press. "Certainly the horrific nature of it is probably one-of-a-kind in Canadian history."


See link:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...d=networkfront


Knife-wielding man beheads fellow passenger on Canadian bus

OTTAWA (AFP) - A passenger travelling across Canada's Western plains on a bus stabbed, gutted and decapitated a man seated next to him, and then taunted police with the head, a witness told media Thursday.

The victim, believed to be 18 years old, had been sleeping with headphones on his ears before he was repeatedly stabbed in the chest by the man with a "big Rambo knife," witness Garnet Caton told public broadcaster CBC.

The other 34 passengers and the driver were jolted by "blood-curdling screams" and fled, bracing the door on their way out to trap the assailant inside the bus, he said.

"He must have stabbed him 50 times or 60 times," said Caton.

When Caton and two others returned to check on the victim, he said they saw the attacker "cutting the guy's head off and gutting him."

"While we were watching ... he calmly walked up to the front (of the bus) with the head in his hand and the knife and just calmly stared at us and dropped the head right in front of us."

"There was no rage in him and he wasn't swearing or cursing or anything, it was just like he was a robot or something."

Moments later, police surrounded the bus and arrested the man after a nearly three-hour standoff, an official said. "He was taunting police with the head in his hand out the window," said Caton.

The Royal Canadian Mounted Police said they were investigating a "major incident" that occurred at 9 pm Wednesday (0200 GMT Thursday) on a Greyhound bus travelling east from Edmonton to Winnipeg, but offered few details.

A 40-year-old man was subdued after he jumped out of a broken window of the bus parked on the side of the desolate highway, RCMP Sergeant Steve Colwell told a press conference.

"At this time, I'm not aware of what may have provoked this attack," Colwell said, refusing to confirm or deny eyewitness accounts.

"I can confirm the victim was stabbed, and that the victim was pronounced dead at the scene."

Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day called the attack "horrific."

See link which includes a photo of the attacker:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080731...e_080731211500


When I read those two articles, I was completely outraged. Initially, I wanted him to get the death penalty but I wasn't thinking straight at the time because I was so upset. Now, that I'm thinking with a clear head, I agree that this guy is psychotic but I don't think he should get death penalty. He should be locked up in an institution, in fact, I think all of our prisons in the United States should be converted into mental institutions, where they get the best proper care. Look at how the way the Scandinavian countries do it: they create environments that do not actually resemble prisons, instead they create places such as farms and suburbian settings. I know this because I saw this on the documentary film, "Sicko", directed by Michael Moore. This is not featured in the film, but it is on the DVD. In one section, it showed the prison system in Norway (I think) where the prison was basically a farm community, filled with thieves, murderers, child molesters and other mentally unbalanced individuals. They all were quite happy doing community work for their country. Some were planting seeds, others were milking the cows and doing other kinds of farm work. In one scene, a prisoner was being interviewed and he said that a guy was in their prison for a time because he killed two people with a chainsaw and he went to work in their community for a sentence for four years! But here's the kicker, you're gonna love this: for his punishment, he had to work out in the fields chopping down trees with a chainsaw! Yikes! As soon as he finished his prison sentence, he was free to go and has returned as a healed man into society. Now, if I were in charge of such a prison system, I wouldn't go that far as to trust that guy with a chainsaw, but I would certainly have him do community service. Evidently, they're doing something right! LOL.

My point is, the United States should strive to have a prison system like the Scandinavians because we as citizens should set an example of treating not just our fellow citizens with respect and integrity, but also show the same for our prisoners. The reason? These are sick, sick, sick people who don't know any better and if people say that the United States is the greatest country on the planet, then let's prove it by doing that. Instead, we have a prison system that treats prisoners like a piece of garbage. Heck, we treat our animals better than our prisoners! I've read several posts from many different Star Trek forum sites, including this one on how Star Trek has changed their lives for the better just by watching the original series and its later incarnations. But do more than just watch. Take firm positive action. Write to your congressmen. Organize protests. Go places, meet people, make noise. I say this not just for having a better prison system, but for universal health care, human rights, better education, more job opportunities and so forth. I'm not expecting to live in a perfect world because I know there's no such thing. This is because people are not perfect, but it can definitely be a better world than what it is today. The fact that we are imperfect allows us as human beings to be more tolerant, flexible, understanding and loving towards one another. The Scandinavian countries have proven that it can be done, all we have to do is follow through. Now, I'm not saying that every prisoner should be released after doing community service because there are some who could never be able to readjust to society again, but we must take care of them just the same. So far, they are the ONLY and closest representatives of the humans of the Star Trek era. That's my two cents.

[jelgate]

For those of you brave smart enough to try brother's Fitfth Best of Both Worlds' quiz. I come with a gift. Below are brother Defiant's episode reviews. As always the most obvious answer is usually the correct one. I also warn those who want to surpass me in the scores, I have tripled the length of my notes. Good luck everyone on tomorrow's quiz

After the scene in "Q Who" where the Borg sliced a hole through the Enterprise and then revealed themselves as an implacable pack of locusts who could not be reasoned with and possibly not defeated, here was finally the episode where they had finally reached Federation space. The Enterprise answers a colony's distress call and arrives to find the entire colony has been scooped off the surface of the planet. Evidence it was the Borg is confirmed in the wreckage. "We're not ready," Admiral Hanson says ominously. Here is an episode of Trek with a uniquely palpable sense of danger, foreboding, and a feeling of being outmatched (A very DS9 like episode if you will). There is no talking your way out of a confrontation with the Borg. They are coming, and they aren't stopping. How can we possibly defeat them?

There was some solid character work all around in this episode. Riker has been offered another promotion to captain, but he's balking again. In the meantime, an ambitious hotshot, Lt. Commander Shelby, is posted to the Enterprise to help work on a way to defeat the Borg. Riker hasn't left yet, but Shelby already has her eye on his job. Michael Piller's script skillfully weaves the issue of Riker's and Shelby's careers in between the action involving the Borg, which the Enterprise engages when they turn out to be the closest ship to intercept them. Shelby's ambition is bold, as in the moment after she saves everyone's asses with quick thinking and then stands above Data and Wesley; Picard subtly "relieves" her and retakes command. In another scene, she goes over Riker's head and takes her idea about separating the saucer straight to Picard. When Riker busts her on it, she tells him bluntly, "You're in my way." This is ballsy character conflict rarely seen on TNG.

And there's a haunting, quiet discussion as well, with contemplations of The End, in which Picard and Guinan wax philosophic in the face of possibly inevitable decimation. Picard's contemplation of the end of humanity's role in history is the epitome of grace under pressure, as he reflects upon it in a larger context of history: "Will this be the end of our civilization? Turn the page." Hints that would later add to the speculative fire abound. Guinan: "Nelson never returned from Trafalgar." Picard: "No, but the battle was won." Will this conflict, even if victorious, see the end of Picard? And Guinan's testament to the human spirit offers reassurance: "As long as there's a handful of you to keep the spirit alive, you will prevail." It's brilliant writing.

The new development in the Borg is that they want Picard specifically. When he refuses to surrender, they attack the Enterprise and kidnap him and set course for Earth, resulting in a pursuit where the Enterprise away team attempts to rescue Picard from the Borg cube.

As a production, the episode delivers; it features some of TNG's best-looking and best-executed ship pursuit scenes (including a venture into a nebula). It has an unforgettable score by Ron Jones (including the Borg theme) that is easily the most memorable single score from TNG. And there's action on the Borg ship that is somehow made more frightening by the zombie-like slow-motion of the Borg drones that zero in on the away team. And who can forget that chilling moment when Picard is revealed as Locutus of Borg? Great stuff.

I suspect -- or at least hope -- that for everybody, there are those precious few hours in front of a television or at the movies that stand apart from all the rest as the most obviously memorable. They're the ones that live on in the imagination as truly thrilling experiences. They stick with you and you remember them fondly, and then you put in the DVD so many years later ... and it works about as well as it ever did. Certainly, it works as well as you could possibly expect given the passage of so much time and the fact that not only has television changed, but so have you.

At the time, the ending cliffhanger was nothing short of a total coup. Season-ending cliffhangers were rare compared to today (where they are now frequently perfunctory and obligatory; we can thank the success of this episode). The cut to black in this episode prompted double-take whiplash. "Mr. Worf -- fire." That's how the season ends? It was such a shock that the line to this day is still one of the best scifi cliffhangers of all-time.

Well I hope this helps some of you. I didn't want to make it to detailed and I will definetly write out another review next week for the Best of Both Worlds: Part II. Overall I would give BOBW: Part I a 9.1 rating

TNG S4 Episode Best of Both Worlds: Part II

The Enterprise's plan to destroy the Borg ship with a specially directed frequency of energy from the ship's main deflector dish fails when it turns out Picard's knowledge of the clever plan has been passed to the Borg and has allowed them to prepare a defense against it. "Your resistance is hopeless, Number One," says Locutus. The Borg proceed on their course to Earth as the Enterprise sits helplessly awaiting repair.

The episode's biggest plot conceit, obviously, is that the Borg don't destroy the Enterprise or assimilate its crew right then and there. Not being a threat, the rationale is that the Borg decide to simply ignore the non-threat and proceed to Earth. But come on. Obviously, the real reason is that it's the only way to permit the story to move forward. Granting the constraint that Picard and the Borg and the Enterprise must all survive the legendary "Mr. Worf, fire" setup, part two proves surprisingly effective as the solution to what seemed like an unsolvable problem. It's not an exercise in rock-solid logic, but it is an exercise in compelling TV.

The tension that was evident in the first part of the story does not for an instant wane here. The Borg are still headed for Sector 001, Starfleet is still woefully unprepared for the battle, and Picard is still in the clutches of the Borg. In an intriguing scene with harrowing implications, we see Picard being further transformed into Locutus; a streaking tear reveals that beneath Locutus still exists Picard, in torment. Aboard the Enterprise, Picard's absence fuels a solid character story for Riker, who must assume the role of captain under the worst possible circumstances and simultaneously step into Picard's shoes (and out of his shadow) for his crew while squaring off against Picard as the enemy. Guinan, who offered words of wisdom to Picard in part one, now bluntly tells Riker that he must let Picard go in order to do his job.

Meanwhile, the Borg march toward Earth. Starfleet's desperate stand at Wolf 359 up's the ante on the foreboding, and when the Enterprise subsequently arrives upon the debris of the wiped-out fleet, it's a particularly striking scene.

The secret to this story's success is its careful balance of elements and that it never loses sight of the fact that this is a TNG show, even amid the chaos. In addition to showing how the crew reacts and plans for this looming threat, Michael Piller's script keeps the story humming along on all cylinders, -- the details follow on the Borg ship, at Starfleet's desperate stand, and as Riker must hatch a daring plan to retrieve Picard from the Borg. This leads to some of TNG's most memorable action, in which Picard is retrieved but not rescued (the crew has his body but has not freed his mind). The show then shuttles into pure TNG problem-solving mode, in which the crew must figure out how to save Picard and stop the Borg, which might be one and the same.

Given that the story must resolve itself and Picard must survive, the solution is a clever one that allows the Borg to be defeated but without the brute force that part one had assured us was not possible. I find it highly unlikely that the access to the Borg's "sleep" system would not be under higher security, and even more unlikely that a self-destruct fail-safe would automatically ensue after that. But what the hell -- the execution of the plot and the struggle and Picard's angst depicted in Data's hacking scenes bring it home as drama.

Overall Best of Both Worlds: Part II was not as good as BOBW: Part I but still a great episode. I tried to tailor the above review for the quiz takers. I included some facts and details I think brother Fifth will hit

[USS Defiant]

And catching it then I was sure this is just a bad DS9 rip off... it wasn;t til years afterwards I watched the entire series and saw how wrong I was!

I agree. On the surface both shows share alot of similarities and paralells with there respected storylines. But once you have watched both shows from beginning to end you realize just wonderfully complex and different each show is.

It has been my personal observation from attending alot of Trek/scifi conventions (and one Babylon 5 convention) over the years that fans of each show are more than likely to be a fan of both shows. Personally I have Deep Space 9 ranked 1rst as my all-time favorite scifi show with Babylon 5 eanked 4rth between Stargate 2nd and Farscape 3rd.

[jelgate]

But the big question brother Defiant is what Stargate is ranked 2nd. SG1 or Atlantis

[USS Defiant]

For those of you brave smart enough to try brother's Fitfth Best of Both Worlds' quiz. I come with a gift. Below are brother Defiant's episode reviews. As always the most obvious answer is usually the correct one. I also warn those who want to surpass me in the scores, I have tripled the length of my notes. Good luck everyone on tomorrow's quiz

That's a great idea about posting the review's up brother jelgate. The thing is, I think the quiz is a week from tomorrow because brother Fifth is out of town until Tuesday or Wednesday. I know he has the Best of Both Worlds ringer quiz all ready to go (he wouldn't let me take a peek).

I am going to re-watch it sometime next week myself. I have a feeling it is going to be very detail orientated other wise he wouldn't have called it a "ringer quiz". I know brother Fifth and he doesn't throw the word ringer around unless it's deserved. It should be good fun, I know brother Starbase and Weyoun will be ready for it and brother's nx, Xicer, gopher and a few others, including Lady Rac, all did very well on the earlier BoBW questions, although those were rather puff-cake.

[USS Defiant]

But the big question brother Defiant is what Stargate is ranked 2nd. SG1 or Atlantis

Definetly Stargate SG-1. I love Atlantis, but it is far to early to rank it yet. As of right now (and I haven't watched any of S5 yet) I would have Atlantis ranked somewhere around 6th or 7th on my all-time favorites. Which is pretty darn good considering my list is chalk of scifi juggernauts.

Where do you have Atlantis and Stargate ranked brother jelgate? (or better yet give me your top 5 or 10 scifi shows of all time.

Off the top of head my list today looks something like this...

1) DS9
2) Stargate
3) Farscape
4) B5
5) TNG
6) Atlantis
7) Firefly
8) VOY
9) Andromeda
10) Dr. Who (although it is moving up my list)
11) BSG
12) Buffy
13) ENT

Honorable mentions: ... Lost ... Heroes ... Jeremiah ... Alien Nation ... X-Files ... V ... Threshold ... Surface ... Invasion ... Amazing Stories ... Creepshow ... Earth-Final Conflict ... Kolchak-The Night Stalker ... The 4400 ... Red Dwarf ... Sliders ... The Outer Limits ... The Twilight Zone ...etc...

[jelgate]

That's a great idea about posting the review's up brother jelgate. The thing is, I think the quiz is a week from tomorrow because brother Fifth is out of town until Tuesday or Wednesday. I know he has the Best of Both Worlds ringer quiz all ready to go (he wouldn't let me take a peek). I am going to re-watch it sometime next week myself. I have a feeling it is going to be very detail orientated other wise he wouldn't have called it a "ringer quiz". I know brother Fifth and he doesn't throw the word ringer around unless it's deserved. It should be good fun, I know brother Starbase and Weyoun will be ready for it and brother's nx, Xicer, gopher and a few others, including Lady Rac, all did very well on the earlier BoBW questions, although those were rather puff-cake.

Well he never told me that. He said after the last quiz, the ringer quiz was in two weeks which is tomorrow. I can always repost them.

[Lieutenant Colonel Davis]

Jelgate, could you make new laws just for this thread?