Nikola Tesla/Helen Magnus Shipper Thread

[silvervintage82]

I see people are posting their interpretations of the exchange between Tesla and Helen in 4x09 about the choice. So I thought I would give mine. I agree with a lot of the points everyone else has made.

Well anyway, here is mine:

First off, I thought I would requote the scene:

Tesla: So tell me something Sophie. Back there in crazy town when you had to choose between sacrificing Will or moi...
Helen: Yes?
Tesla: I mean if it had been a real choice...if you hadn't stacked the deck in favor of the house?
Helen: Whom would I have chosen?
Tesla: Yeah, kinda.
Helen: Oh, Nikola...do you really need to ask? Cheers.

Plus there's all the telling looks in between the comments!

Personally I see this as a very revealing moment. This was the first time I actually believed the writers were going to take the Tesla/Helen relationship beyond flirtation. Though I think the writers have hinted that they probably were together at some point in their past.

To me, this scene played out like a revelation. Would Helen really choose Will over Tesla? I personally don't think she would. In the end, she probably would make the same choice. Why? Because of her feelings and because of their history. I think Tesla reacts the way he does because he knows her so well. But this time he's surprised. I think he's surprised because I read the scene to mean that her comment and behavior actually had an answer for him. IE: That she would choose him.

And that's why I believe he looked at her in wonder and surprise. It was a change, a direction in the writing that steered their relationship to a deeper plane.

This scene is very cheeky, but also very serious in a way. This revealed Tesla's vulnerability. He wants her to choose him because he loves her and he wants her to love him back. This really reveals Helen's possible feelings.

The way this closed the episode to me foreshadowed a future development between the two. We were able to see more inside Helen and Tesla's minds. In the episode we even technically go inside their "shared" minds. She's less annoyed with him, and she's revealing more of her excitement about their past. "Vienna...remember?" She smiles, excited.

Perhaps Tesla was surprised because one, he was shocked that she cared more about him than Will and two, because he was actually making headway in their relationship.

Well anyway, that's my interpretation. Overall, I think that this scene was meant to romantically develop the two characters more (which led up to the romantic kiss in the season finale) and gave us a clue to Helen's own feelings which not only surprised me, an audience member, but Tesla as well.

[Dinoman]

Of course I wont' mind! I personally welcome all interpretations and discussion on all thing Teslen here. There is no right or wrong to every ideas, just different viewpoints and angles.

Re that Dr Coats & Tesla, even if they had something I think it was one-side. Dr Coats definitely admires Tesla and she might think Tesla treats her differently by telling her about his past adventures with Helen. It's a common fallacy amongst women that a man's willingness to reveal his past is a signal of getting serious in his relationship with a woman, and I think Dr Coats, being a rational scientist but also a emotional woman, believes that too. So while all her colleagues stood back when Tesla walked into the room she immediately came up and hugged him, and Tesla's reaction obviously told her otherwise. I believe he would push her away even Helen was not there.

[silvervintage82]

Of course I wont' mind! I personally welcome all interpretations and discussion on all thing Teslen here. There is no right or wrong to every ideas, just different viewpoints and angles.

Re that Dr Coats & Tesla, even if they had something I think it was one-side. Dr Coats definitely admires Tesla and she might think Tesla treats her differently by telling her about his past adventures with Helen. It's a common fallacy amongst women that a man's willingness to reveal his past is a signal of getting serious in his relationship with a woman, and I think Dr Coats, being a rational scientist but also a emotional woman, believes that too. So while all her colleagues stood back when Tesla walked into the room she immediately came up and hugged him, and Tesla's reaction obviously told her otherwise. I believe he would push her away even Helen was not there.

I agree completely about different interpretations. Varying discussions is always interesting.

As for Dr. Coates, I definitely agree that if there was something there it was one sided. Certainly Tesla didn't have any real interest in her whether he slept with her or not (which per usual on this show will probably always remain unanswered and ambiguous - open to interpretation).

On a different topic completely, my sister and I decided to edit a Tesla/Helen video. We love to edit and this is our first one with these two. It's a storyvid with a lot of VO's and action and is meant to just be fun. I'm sure we'll do more in the future.

[Dinoman]

Thanks for sharing, silvervintage. I shall watch it when I get back home tonight. There is no such thing as too many Tesla or Teslen videos, just not enough, particularly during this dreadfully dull, long wait for a new Sanctuary episode.

[iJOKE]

Hey guys,

here's my Teslen promo vid for Fanfic4Kids for S4K:

Check it out, the fun begins on Jan, 21!

0:23
that is GOLD!

[es!]

Love the vid, silvervintage82! You picked awesome scenes, and the voice overs are really great. I mean, the background noises of an ep can be the pain in the ass if you want to use VO's, but they worked perfectly in your vid

0:23
that is GOLD!

Teehee, thank you hun! I am very fond of it myself
But really, that would be a very in-character reaction of Will and Abby to Helen smooching Nikola, right?


silvervintage82, thank you for your insightful analysis.

Before I begin commenting on it , I have to say that any in-depth analysis of Tesla and his relationships in general and with Helen in particular are really difficult because canon contradicts itself countless times. Besides, Sanctuary's characters are highly stereotypical on one hand, what lets the writers get away with little or inconsistent characterization, but they (some of them) have a RL counterpart on the other hand, what makes the interpretations harder (or easier, depending whether you want to consider those RL counterparts relevant for canon).

I like to think of our Tesla as the RL Tesla because RL Tesla rocked
Hence my interpretation is somewhat different from yours:

It reminds me of when he had the conversation with Will about how he had fallen in love countless times

Funny we've been talking about that just a page or two back
I agree with you that he is not "the asexual type, the moral type, or the wait only for Helen type", but I strongly believe that he forgets about his physical needs when he is busy with a project. Remember he didn't shower in Animus? Just like RL Tesla
As Dino and FromOutside pointed out a page or two back, the meaning behind the quote about "falling in love countless times" may vary strongly with different interpretations of what he considers to be "love". I think he is a man of science first and foremost, and he is in love with any new idea. When he is depressed or has no ideas (is there such a thing as scientist's block? lol) he might throw himself into an adventure to fresh up. But we know RL Tesla didn't reciprocate the feelings of all those women who'd been fawning over him, so I really think that our Tesla's most consuming love is science, too

According to Atara Stein (an expert who has written a book about Byronic Heroes) there are three different types. One: "the leader-hero who pursues justice outside the law through explosive violence." Two: "the angst-ridden loner hero who views his power as a burden and pines for human existence." And then there's three: the combination of "both leader-hero and gloomy egotist."

Tesla sounds more like Type 3 to me. Cmon, he doesn't really pursue justice, does he?
So I'd go with the combination of hero and egoist, altho he's more of an anti-hero actually

To me, this scene played out like a revelation. Would Helen really choose Will over Tesla? I personally don't think she would. In the end, she probably would make the same choice. Why? Because of her feelings and because of their history.

I like to read such lovely shippy interpretations. Then I can forget for a second that Chimera has that gaping all-consuming plot hole Namely Adam being stupid enough to allow Helen to talk himself into picking Will. Adam knew about Tesla's vampirism by that time and it was highly illogical for him to take Will's weak body.
So yes, Helen would always choose (sacrifice) Will but not because of her feelings for Tesla (not in the first place at least). She'd made Adam take Will's human body because it would be highly irresponsible to let him out into the real world in Nikola's super strong, immortal vampiric body.

It's a common fallacy amongst women that a man's willingness to reveal his past is a signal of getting serious in his relationship with a woman

Hm, what an interesting detail! I've never thought of that. I can't say that I totally agree but I will remember that for future

[iJOKE]

Teehee, thank you hun! I am very fond of it myself
But really, that would be a very in-character reaction of Will and Abby to Helen smooching Nikola, right?

My first reaction is that if they were 'a couple' (abby and will), they are learning from the best couple of all

I like to think of our Tesla as the RL Tesla because RL Tesla rocked
Hence my interpretation is somewhat different from yours:

I agree. They seem to always interconnect

I like to read such lovely shippy interpretations. Then I can forget for a second that Chimera has that gaping all-consuming plot hole Namely Adam being stupid enough to allow Helen to talk himself into picking Will. Adam knew about Tesla's vampirism by that time and it was highly illogical for him to take Will's weak body.
So yes, Helen would always choose (sacrifice) Will but not because of her feelings for Tesla (not in the first place at least). She'd made Adam take Will's human body because it would be highly irresponsible to let him out into the real world in Nikola's super strong, immortal vampiric body.

well she did say something like 'i dont want my personal feelings to get away from my judgement'. There is something going on between those two

[Dinoman]

Hey guys,

here's my Teslen promo vid for Fanfic4Kids for S4K:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4st_uFYq6i4

Check it out, the fun begins on Jan, 21!

On a different topic completely, my sister and I decided to edit a Tesla/Helen video. We love to edit and this is our first one with these two. It's a storyvid with a lot of VO's and action and is meant to just be fun. I'm sure we'll do more in the future.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_LzIhbzmpM

Great jobs, es! & silvervintage.

It's a smart idea to use the "MI" theme music for the Teslen clips. It certainly attracts viewers' attention, es!, because it's a promotion vid, isn't it?

I always love vids with the actual VOs and your work is just awesome, silvervintage! Do keep them coming!

[es!]

Thank you Dino! Glad you liked it
I won't be around during the week when we can read and review so I felt like helping the guys promote their awesome project with the means available to me

[silvervintage82]

Love the vid, silvervintage82! You picked awesome scenes, and the voice overs are really great. I mean, the background noises of an ep can be the pain in the ass if you want to use VO's, but they worked perfectly in your vid

Thank you! They definitely can be a pain! It depends on how much music the editor puts in the b.g. This video was definitely harder to do the VO's because of it. Certainly we worked on the sound for a while. We also had to use audacity to remove background noise though it will never be perfect! Well anyway, glad you enjoyed it.

silvervintage82, thank you for your insightful analysis.

Before I begin commenting on it , I have to say that any in-depth analysis of Tesla and his relationships in general and with Helen in particular are really difficult because canon contradicts itself countless times. Besides, Sanctuary's characters are highly stereotypical on one hand, what lets the writers get away with little or inconsistent characterization, but they (some of them) have a RL counterpart on the other hand, what makes the interpretations harder (or easier, depending whether you want to consider those RL counterparts relevant for canon).

I like to think of our Tesla as the RL Tesla because RL Tesla rocked
Hence my interpretation is somewhat different from yours:

You're welcome! It's in my nature to analyze because of my degree (Humanities and film). So basically I find it fun.

I have to disagree with your statement to a degree. I can only accept what is canon on what is presented on the show. I think it's brilliant that they incorporate elements of the real Tesla into the fictional, vampiric version of him. And obviously they cast an actor who is quite familiar with the real man. I think instead of using the RL Tesla as canon, I use his counterpart as evidence for possible theories.

That said, I don't think the show has been inconsistent with Tesla. I don't know about the other characters because I haven't watched their episodes all in a row. Most eps I've only seen once. I recently re-watched all of Tesla's episodes with my sister who hadn't been watching the show. I think they were extremely consistent with him. And instead of being stereotypical, I think they were rather using archetypes. But of course this is always open to interpretation.

I think it's possible to interpret Tesla as inconsistent, but I don't think he is. Rather I think he is moody and changeable which fits into the Byronic archetype. I think the writers are purposely making him this way. That's my take anyway.

The RL Tesla was very interesting so I completely get your perspective. But I personally see him as a fictional character based on a real person.

Funny we've been talking about that just a page or two back
I agree with you that he is not "the asexual type, the moral type, or the wait only for Helen type", but I strongly believe that he forgets about his physical needs when he is busy with a project. Remember he didn't shower in Animus? Just like RL Tesla
As Dino and FromOutside pointed out a page or two back, the meaning behind the quote about "falling in love countless times" may vary strongly with different interpretations of what he considers to be "love". I think he is a man of science first and foremost, and he is in love with any new idea. When he is depressed or has no ideas (is there such a thing as scientist's block? lol) he might throw himself into an adventure to fresh up. But we know RL Tesla didn't reciprocate the feelings of all those women who'd been fawning over him, so I really think that our Tesla's most consuming love is science, too

I actually read what a lot of you were saying by browsing before I registered! That's why I wanted to add my own interpretation to add to the discussion.

I definitely agree that Tesla becomes consumed by science and therefore forgets things like showering sometimes. I actually really appreciate that they add bits of the real Tesla into the series.

That said, I personally don't think that when he mentions falling in love countless times it has much to do with scientific ideas. Though certainly I can understand that viewpoint! I think he was really talking about women because that's what Will was referring to. I think the real Tesla perhaps wasn't that into women because he saw them as a distraction, but on the show it has shown that he is interested in women, particularly Helen. I think in real life, Tesla's all consuming passion was science. On the show, I think Tesla has two equally all consuming passions: Science and Helen.

Tesla sounds more like Type 3 to me. Cmon, he doesn't really pursue justice, does he?
So I'd go with the combination of hero and egoist, altho he's more of an anti-hero actually

Sorry, I should have gone into more detail. Type 1 isn't literally about pursuing justice. Though Tesla does in his own way (IE: giving Helen the secret documents from the government). The gloomy egoist doesn't necessarily mean that they're simply egotistical. Rather it's more about pining for human existence which Tesla does not. Type 1 is more about embracing their nature, which Tesla does. Plus, he does enjoy a good fight. Byronics are not necessarily "heroic" characters, but rather are capable of noble sacrifices which Tesla is.

Technically, he is both anti-hero and Byronic Hero because the Byronic Hero is a subtype of an anti-hero.

I'll list some traits of the Byronic Hero which might make it more clear as to why I interpret him as such (these traits come from various sources such as Stein, Bloom, Wiki, McCullough, etc... - my sister just wrote a grad paper on Byronic Heroes and has a lot of researched info on it):

Rebels against convention or society/he has a low tolerance for societal norms and social institutions
Is isolated or has chosen isolation from society
Has larger-than-life abilities and larger-than-life pride
Suspected of committing a crime or has been cursed
Unusually handsome or appealing (men want to be him and women want to marry him)
Wounded physically and/or emotionally—vulnerable in some way
Moody, mysterious, and/or gloomy
Passionate - they usually have a particular focus and obsession
They view their love as being above even heavenly laws (if they even believe in heaven at all)
Guilty
Unrepentant - despite their guilt
Wandering (this trait coming from Lord Byron's poems)
Self-reliant/individualistic
Capable of noble acts/sacrifice
Intellectually Superior
Morally Autonomous
mocking/sarcastic
Fatalistic (Feels Doomed)
Greater than others in his passions, experiences, sins, pain and suffering
misanthropic
mad, bad and dangerous to know (coming from the described personality of Lord Byron himself; technically the first novel to feature a vampire was "The Vampyre" where the main character was based on Byron himself; many vampire characters have been influenced from Byron ever since).

Also, they usually are darker than typical heroes. I could go into more detail, since discussing Byronic Heroes is fun to me, but I think you get the idea! Certainly there are no characters that possess every trait, but Tesla possesses most of these in my opinion, enough to be typed as such. Druitt for instance is a clear Byronic. I believe Tesla is as well. I also think Adam is arguably one too. This show seems to like them, mainly because I think they are influenced by the Romantic movement.

I like to read such lovely shippy interpretations. Then I can forget for a second that Chimera has that gaping all-consuming plot hole Namely Adam being stupid enough to allow Helen to talk himself into picking Will. Adam knew about Tesla's vampirism by that time and it was highly illogical for him to take Will's weak body.
So yes, Helen would always choose (sacrifice) Will but not because of her feelings for Tesla (not in the first place at least). She'd made Adam take Will's human body because it would be highly irresponsible to let him out into the real world in Nikola's super strong, immortal vampiric body.

I can see your perspective, though certainly I interpret it differently. I don't think it was a plot hole as all the dots were connected. Arguing logic in the situation I think is a little different. It's logic vs illogical writing. I don't usually like to overly-argue logic in a fantasy/sci-fi series. I thought they made it make sense. And it wasn't a complete Adam anyway. They were outsmarting a computer.

Of course I agree she couldn't let Adam choose a vampire. However I don't feel that was the point of the end scene. It was more of a personal scene IMO. I don't think Tesla was asking for scientific reasons, and I don't think her response was scientific. Scientifically Tesla would not need to ask because he understands the logic. He wanted to know where he stood with her on level of personal importance. At least that's how I saw it.

But it's always interesting to read other people's view points even if everyone doesn't always agree.

[es!]

We also had to use audacity to remove background noise though it will never be perfect!

Is it a program of sorts?
Cool.


Re: canon
I agree that canon is only what we see on the show (duh). It's just very tempting to use the knowledge about RL Tesla while analysing ours


I am afraid you give TPTB too much credit when you say that the writers write him as the Byronic archetype. Sanctuary is not a classic novel; they don't do character studies and experiments with diverse archetypes. They write what sells. They cater to different target groups in quite primitive and obvious ways, offering several characters whom you can easily identify with or whom you would look up to. Tesla is an anti-hero like you find them in many, many other shows. It is possible that some of Byronic traits fit him, but I think it's mostly thanks to your knowledge of the matter and not because the writers characterized him like that, in such a detail, on purpose.

I actually read what a lot of you were saying by browsing before I registered! That's why I wanted to add my own interpretation to add to the discussion.

It's always awesome to see when lurkers begin to post! <3

That said, I personally don't think that when he mentions falling in love countless times it has much to do with scientific ideas. [...] I think he was really talking about women because that's what Will was referring to.

Yeah, I know what you mean and our points of view don't necessarily contradict. I think he gets excited easily and falls in love head over heels if the circumstances are right, but that he cools down just as easily and jumps to his next new&shiny project, be it science or women. He is fickle that way, and I think that the short time most women could hold his attention would not be enough to seduce him into anything physical.

This show seems to like them, mainly because I think they are influenced by the Romantic movement.

I think the show likes them because young girls fawn over Byronic heroes

Of course I agree she couldn't let Adam choose a vampire. However I don't feel that was the point of the end scene. It was more of a personal scene IMO. I don't think Tesla was asking for scientific reasons, and I don't think her response was scientific.

I know the point was to advance the relationship. But I think it was a stupid way to do it because the answer was obvious - on the level of logic, without involving any feelings to begin with.

I don't like when the writers think the fans are stupid. They could have written the scene a bit differently. The choice was never there, the desicion was obvious. Making Nikola ask about it is making him look stupid or too less confident.

Just my opinion of course.

[es!]

Speaking of vids (what a great segue that was) here's my latest one -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_36dyRanmM

YT has been acting up on me lately Had to dl the vid at last to watch it O.o
But it is really great, I am a sucker for angst Beautifully done, the music is really something Loved it!

I think I should watch all of seasons 1 thru 3 because I have no idea where that awesome Helen & Gregory scene from the very beginning is from Any hints for me?

Btw I've meant to ask you about your other vid - where did you get that "New Yorker" and 3327 footage from? Is there a Tesla documentary out there?

[Mackandal]

I think I should watch all of seasons 1 thru 3 because I have no idea where that awesome Helen & Gregory scene from the very beginning is from Any hints for me?

Warriors, when she asks him to show her his secret work.

[es!]

Cool, thank you!

[FromOutside]

I have been thinking that 'doomed' thing for a while now but I can't decide if he feels like he is doomed or not... Now, this is again me poking subjects that may be sensitive to some but remember: fiction.

In a way, it is easy to see how he'd feel hopeless and doomed. Life hasn't been easy for him: two world wars, danger, pain, disappointments... I assume Sanctuary-Tesla is an atheist (his 'maybe there is a god after all' was just said in a way that a religious person probably wouldn't say it), meaning that he probably sees his options as a life full of very un-nice things and nothingness.

If put like this, his options seem to be very gloomy, depressing even. But then, RL atheists face the same options with significantly less days to live and fewer possibilities to make the time count, and don't have to feel any special feelings being doomed.

The other seemingly plausible religion for him seems to be Christianity (keeping in mind RL-Tesla's father) but I am having serious trouble using 'Christian' and (Sanctuary-)'Tesla' in a same sentence if there is no 'not' in it, too Anyway, if that was the case, Tesla might feel impure (to beyond redemption level?) for some of the things he has done, or even for what he is. For me, there is a certain attraction in this way of thought but still, when I think of Tesla and this... nah.

(And, well, there is always all the 'there has to be something bigger than this but a living soul can't know what it is' routine but I am not too fond of that either. That suits Helen, not Tesla... You know, I am practically chewing my fingers to keep myself starting a new fic.)

In a way I find it sad that so few shows explore religion and what the characters believe. On the other hand, I am very happy that it is the case because the portraits that I have seen... Eh, terrible. Disgustingly one-dimensional, non-challenging and so uninteresting I'd rather watch paint dry. I guess it usually has to be like that, if the writers don't want to offend anyone...

It isn't that I'd expect to see some cool new idea of religion or anything but if done right, the believes the characters have could be used for character development and things like that. I understand this could make relating (if that is the right word for this) much more difficult, when it kind of takes one degree of freedom away, but, yeah, still.

I am afraid you give TPTB too much credit when you say that the writers write him as the Byronic archetype. Sanctuary is not a classic novel; they don't do character studies and experiments with diverse archetypes. They write what sells. They cater to different target groups in quite primitive and obvious ways, offering several characters whom you can easily identify with or whom you would look up to. Tesla is an anti-hero like you find them in many, many other shows. It is possible that some of Byronic traits fit him, but I think it's mostly thanks to your knowledge of the matter and not because the writers characterized him like that, in such a detail, on purpose.

That's what I hate with the character types: they tend to happen, no matter what the... you try to do to avoid it

Not that it all should be avoided but a drop of color would sometimes do nicely in all that, character type opera/whatever. After all (as far as I know, which, admittedly, isn't that far) character types like Byronic heroes are formed from what is seen in literature (and other fictional pieces), not the other way around. I mean, people were making the character that fit the descriptions way before the descriptions were created, and (fiction) writers generally learn most of their skills, characterization skills included, from other pieces of fiction. That makes us to repeat the types, go after the certain character type on purpose, not depending if we know what the type is called or what kind of attributes academic world like to associate with the character type.

Actually knowing the types probably helps to not to use the characters that fit to the descriptions too well, when the writers choose not to use what the audience has seen too often before. It helps to give that nice touch of color/personal depth on the character that otherwise follows, say, Byronic traits.