Nikola Tesla/Helen Magnus Shipper Thread

[Rose "Snapjinx" McKnight]

Hey Mimzy, just checked. As of right now we have 374 posts (er, 375 with this one) and the Helen/John shippers (blech) have 533!

Muwahahaha!

[Ayla142]

I actually had the idea of writing a Titanic fic about Helen WAY long ago (I think before they even started filming season 2--so therefore they TOTALLY STOLE my idea in "Next Tuesday"). But since the ship was headed for New York I'm thinking of tweaking it to make it kind of shippy, so Helen will have left England on her way to NYC to visit Niko (I hope this works out timewise, I forget when it was that he was in Colorado). And so the whole trip she's kind of preoccupied with thinking about him, and then she thinks she's going to die when the ship sinks and the only thing she can think of is him. And then later on Niko learns about it in the newspaper and he's like and is terrified that she's dead (b/c he knew she was coming over).

So...yeah...



Those are AMAZING!!!!



^I think you should put the months in; I am currently planning on working on something but as I go back to school tomorrow and need time to adjust to that, don't expect something right away xD

And WELCOME, Ayla!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YAYZ another shipper...I think we are gaining good ground on the Helen/John people ^_^

____________
btw, since Keaira was kind of the only one who was here when I posted these, I'm posting all the H/N smilies I've made so far

You are free to snurch, but PLEASE CREDIT ME if you do so. Also, these are all based on the original GW smilies and the ones made by zuz and Jper

Thanks for the warm welcome Mimzy! And the Titanic story sounds AMAZING! I'm super excited to read it now!! *Squee!* How far along with it are you? Or have you not begun writing it yet? Because if thats the case I can totally relate...actually on both counts... hehe.

[Mimzy]

Hey Mimzy, just checked. As of right now we have 374 posts (er, 375 with this one) and the Helen/John shippers (blech) have 533!

Muwahahaha!

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY We are catching up quickly

And we even have smilies

Although to be fair, I'm planning on making smilies for just about every main character.

But I made the H/N ones FIRST

Btw, what happened to your fic ?

[Rose "Snapjinx" McKnight]

Although to be fair, I'm planning on making smilies for just about every main character.

But I made the H/N ones FIRST

Btw, what happened to your fic ?

Ahh, those smilies are gonna be awesome!!

Eh heh heh heh...about my fic: semester workload happened.
The next chapter's done, I just haven't had a spare minute to breathe, much less post it. Well, I suppose as long as I'm taking a break to check the GW threads, I might as well get on fanfic as well.

[Mimzy]

Well, HOP TO IT!

lol

........

Okay, so anyway, I finally got to see "Haunted." Annnnd, this was the um...what turned out to be a serious mini-essay on the "darkness" in humankind, but it basically implies that b/c of what he did John/Helen...ehhhh...never in a million years:

Spoiler:

Okay, this episode TOTALLY reminded me of Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness. (Be warned, I'm going to go all English major on you). In that book, Conrad's main point was about the "darkness" in all humankind--our basic primal urges beneath the sense of morality, the conditioning of society, etc. There is "darkness" within each of us. At its base level it is not evil. But when repressed, it builds up, becoming more and more dangerous psychologically and morally dangerous. It's the basic idea of denial making everything worse in a situation--if you deny that you have "bad things" in you, then ironically you'll start acting bad anyway. If anyone's ever read Henry James' The Turn of the Screw, that's basically what happens with the governess in terms of sexual repression. She represses all her sexual urges and denies that they are even there, so they actually end up coming out subconsciously and influencing all of her actions involving the kids she takes care of. And...it doesn't end well. It's an extremely disturbing book when carefully analyzed, and even more so in the fact that that kind of thing has and can happen realistically in society. ANYWAY, on the other hand, if these basic urges that can become evil are freely allowed to control us (by our choice), then we start acting "bad" and allow ourselves to become morally depraved. And then, there is the MIDDLE GROUND, which is CONTROL. CONTROLLING this "darkness" is different than repression. In order to control one's inner urges, one needs to first ACKNOWLEDGE the fact that they are there and that they exist, which sets control apart from the ignorance of repression. BUT, once their existence is acknowledged, one needs to understand that, yes, they are there, but that doesn't mean you have to act on them or let them control you.

^and this literary discussion now leads me to my main point about this episode.

First of all, when the woman who died (I forget her name) encounters John, she says something that I think is EXTREMELY important when regarding the later events of the ep. She says, "This will never be your home as long as you let this darkness control you." As long as he LETS it control him. That's Conrad's point right there. There is a character in HoD named Kurtz who bascially ALLOWS his "darkness" to overtake him, and it eventually leads to...bad things. Will not spoil for those actually interested in reading that (incredibly scary/disturbing) book, but things eventually do not go well for him.

Second of all, there is the moment when John says that perhaps the entity was the source of his bloodlust, and Helen says "I want to believe you, John, but it's far too easy to blame everything you've done on something else." Again, the allowance factor. And even when he says it was the source of his rage, Helen still looks like she half-believes him. And even when he says he loves her...she looked pretty torn between taking him at his word and not trusting him. Also, this goes back to her comment in EoN where she says, "Tesla may have shocked you to your senses, John, but nobody becomes what you were without a predilection for killing." Now, if we try to bring the real Druitt into this, that comment is pretty much true...since the man's behavior was typical of a socio/psychopath even before the Whitechapel murders. Also...he had serious issues with women...I still don't get where that came from (and part of why J/H drives me crazy b/c if it was more historically accurate Helen would be running for her life regardless of whether his murderous tendencies were caused by another entity).

So... Honestly, I don't entirely believe that that thing had complete control of him. First, the empath, who doesn't even know John at all, points out that he's apparently LETTING it control him. It's almost as if she sensed the goodness in him but was confused as to why he wasn't letting that out and was letting the other thing cloud his mind instead. Second, Helen has made the comment about him being a killer regardless of his "insanity" twice now. TPTB keep it ambiguous as to whether the thing does completely control his mind and actions, but there's hints that he could at least have SOME control over it if not complete control. Also, we don't know what he was feeling at the time he murdered the people he did. The thing may have gone into him and enhanced his rage, but who's to say that when it first entered him and he started acting the way he did, that he didn't willingly allow it to have some influence, little by little, b/c part of him got a thrill from the sense of power it gave him? Maybe part of him wanted it out, and another part secretly enjoyed it. Honestly, we don't know; that still hasn't been made clear. The only way to know that is to somehow find out his exact thoughts and feelings at the time of his murders.

So, it all comes back to Conrad's point. (And I am honestly trying to restrain myself from physically spazzing out at the nerdy excitement I have over all of this right now). A point which was also made several times by the more known author Edgar Allan Poe. In Poe's story "The Black Cat," a man goes crazy and starts torturing his pet and becomes a murderer for seemingly no reason whatsoever. What it boils down to is what the narrator says at one point during his rage:

"And then came, as if to my final and irrevocable overthrow, the spirit of PERVERSENESS. Of this spirit philosophy takes no account. Yet I am not more sure that my soul lives, than I am that perverseness is one of the primitive impulses of the human heart--one of the indivisible primary faculties, or sentiments, which give direction to the character of Man. Who has not, a hundred times, found himself committing a vile or a silly action, for no other reason than because he should not? Have we not a perpetual inclination, in the teeth of our best judgment, to violate that which is Law [i.e. Natural Law], merely because we understand it to be such? This spirit of perverseness, I say, came to my final overthrow. It was this unfathomable longing of the soul to vex itself--to offer violence to its own nature--to do wrong for wrong's sake only--that urged me to continue and finally to consummate the injury I had inflicted upon the unoffending brute."


In the end, it comes to this. We all have a "darkness" within us, a "spirit of perverseness." The only factor is whether we CHOOSE to let it influence us. And no matter what these things we have inside us are, we cannot blame our actions on them. As long as we know the difference between right and wrong, good and bad, we are responsible for what we do.

He may have done right by saving their lives in the end, but the entity does not excuse him from responsibility for his past actions. He can be forgiven, but it doesn't change what he did. Even in that state he knew that murder was wrong. In the real world, so do sociopathic killers. Their mental disorder of not being able to feel empathy (antisocial personality disorder) cannot excuse them from the fact that they know exactly what they do. What's wrong may feel right to them, but it does not change the fact that they know that intrinsically it's wrong, regardless of how they feel. Relative opinions do not change reality.

No matter what the circumstances are.

I don't care if I forgive someone for what he did. If he murdered that many people, and in the way that he did, I can't seriously be with that person ever again. Even if he claims he loves me.

[Pan]

Hello!!

I'm a newbie but I love this show and love Nikola & Magnus!

[Mimzy]

YAY! I know I just welcomed you on the Tesla thunk thread but YAYAYAYAY you're an H/N shipper too!!


......

btw, in case anybody didn't see this, this is my little bit on "Haunted" and why John/Helen is just...impossible...

Spoiler:

Okay, this episode TOTALLY reminded me of Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness. (Be warned, I'm going to go all English major on you). In that book, Conrad's main point was about the "darkness" in all humankind--our basic primal urges beneath the sense of morality, the conditioning of society, etc. There is "darkness" within each of us. At its base level it is not evil. But when repressed, it builds up, becoming more and more dangerous psychologically and morally dangerous. It's the basic idea of denial making everything worse in a situation--if you deny that you have "bad things" in you, then ironically you'll start acting bad anyway. If anyone's ever read Henry James' The Turn of the Screw, that's basically what happens with the governess in terms of sexual repression. She represses all her sexual urges and denies that they are even there, so they actually end up coming out subconsciously and influencing all of her actions involving the kids she takes care of. And...it doesn't end well. It's an extremely disturbing book when carefully analyzed, and even more so in the fact that that kind of thing has and can happen realistically in society. ANYWAY, on the other hand, if these basic urges that can become evil are freely allowed to control us (by our choice), then we start acting "bad" and allow ourselves to become morally depraved. And then, there is the MIDDLE GROUND, which is CONTROL. CONTROLLING this "darkness" is different than repression. In order to control one's inner urges, one needs to first ACKNOWLEDGE the fact that they are there and that they exist, which sets control apart from the ignorance of repression. BUT, once their existence is acknowledged, one needs to understand that, yes, they are there, but that doesn't mean you have to act on them or let them control you.

^and this literary discussion now leads me to my main point about this episode.

First of all, when the woman who died (I forget her name) encounters John, she says something that I think is EXTREMELY important when regarding the later events of the ep. She says, "This will never be your home as long as you let this darkness control you." As long as he LETS it control him. That's Conrad's point right there. There is a character in HoD named Kurtz who bascially ALLOWS his "darkness" to overtake him, and it eventually leads to...bad things. Will not spoil for those actually interested in reading that (incredibly scary/disturbing) book, but things eventually do not go well for him.

Second of all, there is the moment when John says that perhaps the entity was the source of his bloodlust, and Helen says "I want to believe you, John, but it's far too easy to blame everything you've done on something else." Again, the allowance factor. And even when he says it was the source of his rage, Helen still looks like she half-believes him. And even when he says he loves her...she looked pretty torn between taking him at his word and not trusting him. Also, this goes back to her comment in EoN where she says, "Tesla may have shocked you to your senses, John, but nobody becomes what you were without a predilection for killing." Now, if we try to bring the real Druitt into this, that comment is pretty much true...since the man's behavior was typical of a socio/psychopath even before the Whitechapel murders. Also...he had serious issues with women...I still don't get where that came from (and part of why J/H drives me crazy b/c if it was more historically accurate Helen would be running for her life regardless of whether his murderous tendencies were caused by another entity).

So... Honestly, I don't entirely believe that that thing had complete control of him. First, the empath, who doesn't even know John at all, points out that he's apparently LETTING it control him. It's almost as if she sensed the goodness in him but was confused as to why he wasn't letting that out and was letting the other thing cloud his mind instead. Second, Helen has made the comment about him being a killer regardless of his "insanity" twice now. TPTB keep it ambiguous as to whether the thing does completely control his mind and actions, but there's hints that he could at least have SOME control over it if not complete control. Also, we don't know what he was feeling at the time he murdered the people he did. The thing may have gone into him and enhanced his rage, but who's to say that when it first entered him and he started acting the way he did, that he didn't willingly allow it to have some influence, little by little, b/c part of him got a thrill from the sense of power it gave him? Maybe part of him wanted it out, and another part secretly enjoyed it. Honestly, we don't know; that still hasn't been made clear. The only way to know that is to somehow find out his exact thoughts and feelings at the time of his murders.

So, it all comes back to Conrad's point. (And I am honestly trying to restrain myself from physically spazzing out at the nerdy excitement I have over all of this right now). A point which was also made several times by the more known author Edgar Allan Poe. In Poe's story "The Black Cat," a man goes crazy and starts torturing his pet and becomes a murderer for seemingly no reason whatsoever. What it boils down to is what the narrator says at one point during his rage:

"And then came, as if to my final and irrevocable overthrow, the spirit of PERVERSENESS. Of this spirit philosophy takes no account. Yet I am not more sure that my soul lives, than I am that perverseness is one of the primitive impulses of the human heart--one of the indivisible primary faculties, or sentiments, which give direction to the character of Man. Who has not, a hundred times, found himself committing a vile or a silly action, for no other reason than because he should not? Have we not a perpetual inclination, in the teeth of our best judgment, to violate that which is Law [i.e. Natural Law], merely because we understand it to be such? This spirit of perverseness, I say, came to my final overthrow. It was this unfathomable longing of the soul to vex itself--to offer violence to its own nature--to do wrong for wrong's sake only--that urged me to continue and finally to consummate the injury I had inflicted upon the unoffending brute."


In the end, it comes to this. We all have a "darkness" within us, a "spirit of perverseness." The only factor is whether we CHOOSE to let it influence us. And no matter what these things we have inside us are, we cannot blame our actions on them. As long as we know the difference between right and wrong, good and bad, we are responsible for what we do.

He may have done right by saving their lives in the end, but the entity does not excuse him from responsibility for his past actions. He can be forgiven, but it doesn't change what he did. Even in that state he knew that murder was wrong. In the real world, so do sociopathic killers. Their mental disorder of not being able to feel empathy (antisocial personality disorder) cannot excuse them from the fact that they know exactly what they do. What's wrong may feel right to them, but it does not change the fact that they know that intrinsically it's wrong, regardless of how they feel. Relative opinions do not change reality.

No matter what the circumstances are.

[Pan]

Hi, Mimzy, thanks for the welcome!

English is not my first language, so please be patient with my mistakes!

[Mimzy]

No worries! I couldn't tell; your grammar is very good

Thanks for the warm welcome Mimzy! And the Titanic story sounds AMAZING! I'm super excited to read it now!! *Squee!* How far along with it are you? Or have you not begun writing it yet? Because if thats the case I can totally relate...actually on both counts... hehe.

You're welcome! I actually haven't written the fic yet, though I have way too many ideas, most of them for this ship But I do have some up on fanfiction.net and sanctuaryfiction.net under the name Miss Pookamonga, if you're interested And I know Rose and Keaira have written shippy fics too...the links are all somewhere on this thread LOL

[Pan]

I was reading the thread and I have to say you all are sooo talented. Love all the fanarts and fanvideos!

[Mimzy]

Thanks

[Pan]

I have to sleep now. Hope talk to you later. Bye.

[es!]

Hello!!

I'm a newbie but I love this show and love Nikola & Magnus!

Howdy and welcome!

[Mimzy]

So...
What did you guys think of the whole H/J thing in "Haunted"?

I think it's doomed...*refer to above post* Actually, it's been doomed...

YAY Helen/Niko

[Keaira Taegan]

Pan WELCOME!!! (i'll say hi to you on the thunk thread in a bit )

Mimzy I loved your "mini-essay" on Haunted!!!! it describes how i feel about the whole situation. I love you for taking the time to type that all out! <3

And, ofcourse, LONG LIVE OUR SHIP!