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    #16
    While there are exceptions to every rule, the conventional wisdom is that the third season of “Heroes” was a disappointment. Despite the heavily promoted premiere and several attempts to jumpstart the storyline, the writers couldn’t escape the fact that they were making things up as they went along. Tim Kring’s decision to fire the main writers backfired when his own writing solutions turned out to be just as poorly conceived.

    The return of Bryan Fuller to the writing staff gave many fans hope of a true resurrection, but those hopes were dashed when he announced his latest departure over the summer hiatus. Since then, most of the press releases about the show have been met with scorn and even a bit of ridicule. Considering that this was once the show hailed as the best genre show on the air, the fall from grace has been brutal.

    It’s not hard to trace the problem back to its source. The original concept for the show was a series of season-long arcs, with each story centering on a fresh set of characters. In other words, the now-familiar faces were supposed to exit the stage when the first season concluded. Instead, the producers (at some insistence from the network, to be sure) changed their plans and softened the first season finale to leave things open-ended. Not only did it undermine that finale tremendously, but it set the writers into the “24” syndrome: making things up season after season, and relying on the same plot devices when the going gets tough.

    The bottom line is that the fourth season has a lot going against it in the eyes of fandom, even accounting for a devoted core still clinging to the best aspects of the series. “Redemption” isn’t just the name of this volume; it’s what the entire production staff is striving for, particularly the writers.

    It’s far too early to tell if the mistakes of the past will be a strong enough lesson, since some planning goes into the beginning of a season. The name of the episode says it all: this is the setup for the new status quo. The writers take a few familiar faces and give some targeted updates on what has happened in the six weeks since the end of the third season.

    As one would expect, the situation with Nathan/Sylar is already falling apart, and that was telegraphed so quickly (at the end of the third season finale, in fact) that it feels old and worn already. This feels like it will drag out, and I have little confidence that it will be handled well. It might have been better for the writers to wait a while, even a full season, before pulling this particular trigger.

    On the other hand, it’s good to see that the formation of the new Company is not a smooth operation, and that Matt is suffering the effects of his involvement in Sylar’s reprogramming. Done well, this could be an interesting twist. What if Sylar not only recovers his original personality, but gains control of Matt as well?

    Another direct follow-up is Tracy’s killing spree, which doesn’t make an already tedious character any more interesting. I understand that the producers want to stand by their cast members, but Ali Larter’s characters have worn out their welcome. Sadly, so has Claire. Her first days at college were annoying and a bit reminiscent of the early fourth season episodes of “Buffy”. I wasn’t intrigued by Annie’s death; I was relieved.

    Kring falls on the same bad habits with Hiro and Ando. Ever since the second season, which should have been a turning point for Hiro, these characters have been little more than comic relief. Hiro’s medical condition added some necessary gravitas by the end of the hour, but I’d love to see these characters have a stretch of episodes that didn’t involve wacky slapstick situations. Let the characters grow already!

    Given all these worrisome signs of more of the same, it’s telling that the most compelling aspect of the premiere was the introduction of the carnies. This is largely due to the acting talents of Robert Knepper as Samuel Sullivan. Knepper always seems to bring depth to his characters, and this is no exception. In fact, I was left wondering if it might have been a better idea to focus more on the new characters and their motivations. If that’s not a sign that the familiar characters have reached a saturation point, I don’t know what is.

    It’s hard to judge the potential strengths and weaknesses of a season from the first hour, but there are some signs and portents to consider. A few subplots feel a bit predictable, since they were foreshadowed a long time ago, and other developments aren’t particularly compelling. I’m worried about yet another time-travel plot that looks to retroactively change the continuity of the series. Hopefully it will be a short foray and not a major portion of the season arc.

    Mostly, I’ve simply grown skeptical of the writing staff. As Noah was droning on to Tracy about the desire for redemption, I was reminded of something a friend said months ago. Redemption is the sort of thing that should happen organically. The characters should just do it, not talk about how they intend to do it. The writers should trust the audience to recognize when a character is seeking redemption, and show us success or failure, not tell us. The closest they came to the right balance was with Peter in the first act.

    So for now, my fears remain, though I will continue to hope that the show still has something to bring to the table. The trick will be avoiding the plot devices that have been done to death, staying true to the characters, and showing the audience redemption instead of telling us about it.

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      #17
      The Matt Parkman/Skylar storyline should have been kept quite for a bit as well as Nathan/Skylar starting to break a part. I think it things would have been much better if we were to see both Nathan and Matt having something wrong with them, but no idea that it was Skylar. Then for the reveal, simply show one of them looking at a reflection of himself and seeing Skylar staring back at them, Matt or Nathan then spins around sees nothing, looks back in the mirror and sees Skylar staring right back with the simple words "Why hello there."

      The whole idea of different casts for each year could have worked if they went with series-long arcs like the Company being around chasing them.

      Its *damn* disappointing to hear that they made things up as they went which makes the discontinuity over the 'Eclipse' make sense. At one point, it was the Eclipse that gave them their powers, but no they were born that way, but no they altered, but no it was the Eclipse.

      The key points of the story should have been mapped out in advance with each season mapped out in detail prior to each year. Hmmm...sounds like every other series that's out there.
      The Stargate Character Facebook/Twitter Status Page

      http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=69210

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        #18
        For the record, given that both episodes aired as a single episode I have no idea as to what details were in which hour.
        The Stargate Character Facebook/Twitter Status Page

        http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=69210

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          #19
          Originally posted by HAL2100 View Post
          The Matt Parkman/Skylar storyline should have been kept quite for a bit as well as Nathan/Skylar starting to break a part. I think it things would have been much better if we were to see both Nathan and Matt having something wrong with them, but no idea that it was Skylar. Then for the reveal, simply show one of them looking at a reflection of himself and seeing Skylar staring back at them, Matt or Nathan then spins around sees nothing, looks back in the mirror and sees Skylar staring right back with the simple words "Why hello there."

          The whole idea of different casts for each year could have worked if they went with series-long arcs like the Company being around chasing them.

          Its *damn* disappointing to hear that they made things up as they went which makes the discontinuity over the 'Eclipse' make sense. At one point, it was the Eclipse that gave them their powers, but no they were born that way, but no they altered, but no it was the Eclipse.

          The key points of the story should have been mapped out in advance with each season mapped out in detail prior to each year. Hmmm...sounds like every other series that's out there.
          What's a Skylar?

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            #20
            Originally posted by drake122 View Post
            What's a Skylar?
            A MacGuffin native to America primarily in the North East.
            The Stargate Character Facebook/Twitter Status Page

            http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=69210

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              #21
              I might be the only one that feels this but the death of Danko just doesn't sit right with me. Granted I never really cared for the character but it was hinted that this guys had some layers to him. Layers we never really got to see. With his death early in season 4. He really just looks like any military goon you could find in any number of movies or tv shows. I guess I had hoped for more.

              On the up side Samuel already has more personality that Danko ever had.
              "Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Champagne in one hand - strawberries in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming WOW - What a RIDE!"

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                #22
                Honestly, we tend to live in the moment and the latest impression feels more powerful than that which came before....

                As of this moment...I think Heroes has never bored me more.
                I'm disappointed. After 3 Seasons, this is what we get. Clare is still trying to act normal and her Dad is still with the "company". Parkman...is still weak minded. Hiro and Hiro are both the most self serving good guys to bumble into a set of superpowers, they remind me of Packleds from TNG.

                Peter maybe Peter finally has realized what's right and wrong with his life. FINALLY.
                Sylar is the only intresting factor here and he's Nathan who's actually dead.

                I hope this gets faster.
                We took some steps in the other seasons but the rating are slipping.

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by Night Marshal View Post
                  I might be the only one that feels this but the death of Danko just doesn't sit right with me. Granted I never really cared for the character but it was hinted that this guys had some layers to him. Layers we never really got to see. With his death early in season 4. He really just looks like any military goon you could find in any number of movies or tv shows. I guess I had hoped for more.

                  On the up side Samuel already has more personality that Danko ever had.
                  It goes back to the whole thing of season long story arcs that are pretty much self-contained. It just doesn't work because depth can't be developed over 20 episodes. It also leaves many things unexplored. Its like killing off the Borg, really, really great villian that they wipe out without too much effort.
                  The Stargate Character Facebook/Twitter Status Page

                  http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=69210

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                    #24
                    on a really really random tangent i had a dream last night that Danko is Animal from the muppets on angry pills. But i think this should encourage the Muppet theory of heroes for understanding the characters.
                    "Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Champagne in one hand - strawberries in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming WOW - What a RIDE!"

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by Night Marshal View Post
                      on a really really random tangent i had a dream last night that Danko is Animal from the muppets on angry pills. But i think this should encourage the Muppet theory of heroes for understanding the characters.
                      Funny, I had a dream that Danko was Jill's sister in Charlie's Angel and that it was him that replaced her when she left.
                      The Stargate Character Facebook/Twitter Status Page

                      http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=69210

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                        #26
                        The last time I dreamed about a TV show the Enterprise was a giant Balloon and coucilor Troi was somehow still full of hot air.

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by AVFan View Post
                          Pretty good ep. I'm not sure whether I have to use spoiler tags so I will anyway:
                          Spoiler:
                          Nice twist with Syler, putting him in Parkman.
                          As soon as whatshername mentioned the push, jump, fall 'method' I knew that Claire was gonna jump out the window. Called it! lol
                          I wonder what the compass means.
                          I wonder what kind of negative effects Hiro's time-traveling will have?

                          Just a couple questions about last season:
                          What was the state of Hiro's powers at the end of S3?
                          Can Peter still only take on one power at a time?
                          It looks like the compass thinggy is only working for evos and possibly shows the direction TO other evos.. Sort of like the power that the girl parkman saved (molly)..

                          The time travelling, will bite him in the butt, but not sure right now how. IIRC from the wiki site
                          Spoiler:
                          he gets a brain tumor from it


                          As for pete.. It still looks like he can only hold one power at a time..

                          Originally posted by HAL2100 View Post
                          1) I think that Claire's new friend is responsible for her roommate's suicide.
                          Initially i felt the same, but as i learned later i was wrong..

                          Originally posted by entil2001 View Post
                          As one would expect, the situation with Nathan/Sylar is already falling apart, and that was telegraphed so quickly (at the end of the third season finale, in fact) that it feels old and worn already.
                          I disagree. With as strong as we have seen Sylar presented, having him 'lie in limbo' for too much time would have undervalued him imo..

                          And i gave MAD props to Matt for telling Mamma Petrelli, to stuff it, YOU created the mess not me..

                          Originally posted by entil2001 View Post
                          On the other hand, it’s good to see that the formation of the new Company is not a smooth operation, and that Matt is suffering the effects of his involvement in Sylar’s reprogramming.
                          i love how they had part of him lie IN Parkman, and can somehow manipulate parkman's own powers against him.. I also loved how Noah seems conflicted as to whether to continue his involvement in the company with all it has cost him.

                          Originally posted by entil2001 View Post
                          Given all these worrisome signs of more of the same, it’s telling that the most compelling aspect of the premiere was the introduction of the carnies. This is largely due to the acting talents of Robert Knepper as Samuel Sullivan. Knepper always seems to bring depth to his characters, and this is no exception. In fact, I was left wondering if it might have been a better idea to focus more on the new characters and their motivations. If that’s not a sign that the familiar characters have reached a saturation point, I don’t know what is.
                          I would have also liked some more expansion on what their powers are.. WE know Knepper seems to manipulate ink, and he has a speedster.. What is with tatoo girl? What's her gift?
                          And i LOVED that they went with Knepper. He always does well as any character.

                          For me, i felt it was a solid intro, not as good as Season 2 or 3s though.. No real gravitas of a 'big threat' to everything..
                          For Claire's whole school stuff, i like that she is going back to her "wanting to be normal" ways, since she saw what going the other way cost her.. And has cost dad..

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