Listen (3404/804)

[rushy]

Yep they've done it several times. "The Sontaran Experiment" and "The Invasion Of Time," and a few other stories that I can't recall.

Then why are they trying to invent time travel in The Two Doctors?

[Spimman]

Best episode so far this season, Capaldi's settled in the role (starting to love his snarky, slightly darker, tactless, frequently clueless and hugging-averse Doctor)

I agree with this completely. I have enjoyed this season, mostly, but this was the first episode I really really liked and the first time where Capaldi seemed like the Doctor from start to finish without me questioning him for a second.

It's interesting that Moffat did say that there was no running storyline in this season, however it is pretty clear that there is a running theme. I like it. It's very subtle. Much more bad Wolf or Torchwood than River Song or Impossible girl.

Yeah I'm starting to like this subtle connection between these episodes.

So many little nuggets I'm hoping to find out more about, but I wonder if any of them will turn out to be red herrings...

[rushy]

Someone explain this to me: if the TARDIS can go back in time to Gallifrey, how did the Time Lords miss the universe-rebooting and time-meddling the Doctor's done since the events of The Day Of The Doctor?

The pocket universe obviously doesn't block them off from history as we saw in this very episode. And Clara is still only a human.

I don't hate Moffat for writing that story, but he's bended the rules one time too many in my opinion.

[P-90_177]

Someone explain this to me: if the TARDIS can go back in time to Gallifrey, how did the Time Lords miss the universe-rebooting and time-meddling the Doctor's done since the events of The Day Of The Doctor?

The pocket universe obviously doesn't block them off from history as we saw in this very episode. And Clara is still only a human.

I don't hate Moffat for writing that story, but he's bended the rules one time too many in my opinion.

The timelords still have to stay relative to themselves. The Doctor for example should not have been able to travel back to his childhood, not because he can't but because it's dangerous to interact with his former self, particularly as a child who at a guess is prior to him looking into the untempered Schizm which is the first step to becoming a Timelord. It's the Timewar that he can't travel to because it is Time Locked and now trapped in a parallel dimension.... it still has holes don't get me wrong, but there are reasons around everything.

[Gatefan1976]

A question for the hardcore whovians

I seem to recall (very vaguely) that the Doctor once said that anyone travelling to Gallifrey ends up in Gallifreys "current present time" making it impossible to arrive there in the past.

I think it was during Tom Bakers run as the doctor. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

[P-90_177]

A question for the hardcore whovians

I seem to recall (very vaguely) that the Doctor once said that anyone travelling to Gallifrey ends up in Gallifreys "current present time" making it impossible to arrive there in the past.

I think it was during Tom Bakers run as the doctor. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

Possible. I seem to recall something similar. However that could be a timelord regulatory thing which doesn't apply anymore now they are gone.

[Gatefan1976]

Possible. I seem to recall something similar. However that could be a timelord regulatory thing which doesn't apply anymore now they are gone.

I think it was with the whole part about the Doctor becoming the president. Good to know I am not the only one who seems to recall such a thing.

Why I think it is relevant to this ep is, If we assume that Clara *did* meet a little doctor at the barn (which is a pretty logical conclusion) it means that he may not have been born on Gallifrey, but another planet in the system.

[Coco Pops]

Then why are they trying to invent time travel in The Two Doctors?

I don't know........... Things in Doctor Who don't have to happen in any set order......Time Travel....??????

Timey wimey Ugh.

[Gatefan1976]

I don't know........... Things in Doctor Who don't have to happen in any set order......Time Travel....??????

Timey wimey Ugh.

They have to happen in a set order for the individual however. Personal time and relative time have long been a staple of Who.

[rushy]

The timelords still have to stay relative to themselves. The Doctor for example should not have been able to travel back to his childhood, not because he can't but because it's dangerous to interact with his former self, particularly as a child who at a guess is prior to him looking into the untempered Schizm which is the first step to becoming a Timelord. It's the Timewar that he can't travel to because it is Time Locked and now trapped in a parallel dimension.... it still has holes don't get me wrong, but there are reasons around everything.

That explains why the Doctor hasn't gone back, but not why the Time Lords haven't come forward.

[Blencathra]

The way I understand it is that the Time Lords won't or can't come forward as that breaks the First Law of Time.

[rushy]

Didn't stop them in Genesis Of The Daleks or Dark Eyes.

[Greenee]

The timelords still have to stay relative to themselves. The Doctor for example should not have been able to travel back to his childhood, not because he can't but because it's dangerous to interact with his former self, particularly as a child who at a guess is prior to him looking into the untempered Schizm which is the first step to becoming a Timelord. It's the Timewar that he can't travel to because it is Time Locked and now trapped in a parallel dimension.... it still has holes don't get me wrong, but there are reasons around everything.

Well he didn't know where they were going and as far as I nocticed, he didn't even find out. So you can't blame him

Gatefan1976

Re: Listen (3404/804)
A question for the hardcore whovians

I seem to recall (very vaguely) that the Doctor once said that anyone travelling to Gallifrey ends up in Gallifreys "current present time" making it impossible to arrive there in the past.

I think it was during Tom Bakers run as the doctor. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

+

I think it was with the whole part about the Doctor becoming the president. Good to know I am not the only one who seems to recall such a thing.

Why I think it is relevant to this ep is, If we assume that Clara *did* meet a little doctor at the barn (which is a pretty logical conclusion) it means that he may not have been born on Gallifrey, but another planet in the system.

Well, possible, but I believe it rather liklely that Moffat simply didn't recall that particular detail especialy, if it was only mention once. Anyway. I fear, since DW is such a lon runnig story now, defelopet and told by so many people in so many different media it is simply not possible anymre to follow any kind of rules without compromising otheres. It's is just too twistet. So say goodby to logic and enjoy the ride.

[rushy]

It's very easy to follow rules... just go with what makes the most sense.
Having Gallifrey be accessible to time travel isn't. Besides, there's only been one set of rules about Gallifrey and that's that going back is a big no-no. Moffat's just being ignorant here. I just don't know how to explain this away. That doesn't happen a lot.

[Spimman]

Well we know the the Doctor's TARDIS isn't just any TARDIS and "I always took you where you needed to go." so maybe this was something that the Doctor needed. Also technically Clara (who doesn't know the rules of time) was piloting via a psychic connection with the TARDIS.

Overall I thought it was an interesting move and I'm interested to see how the toy soldier plays out in the end.