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    #16
    Great stuff! I loved this episode. Certainly my favorite Capaldi ep so far.
    sigpic

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      #17
      What's at the corner of the mirror?

      Sister of Mine continues her mission to troll the Doctor.
      "I have never understood why it should be necessary to become irrational in order to prove that you care... or why it should be necessary to prove it at all."

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        #18
        What a brilliant episode! Loved it.

        Some great funny quotes -

        "You said you had a date. I thought I’d better hide in the bedroom in case you brought him home."

        "Why do you need three mirrors? Can't you just turn your head?"

        "You've taken your make up off"
        "No I haven't"
        "OK well you probably just missed a bit."

        "What's wrong with your face? It's all eyes. Get them under control."

        "Orson Pink?" "Yeah, I laughed too."

        "She's doing that all eyes thing. It's because her face is so wide. She needs 3 mirrors."

        "Do you come with your own mood lighting 'cos frankly the accent is enough."

        "No, no no. Not the hugging. I'm against the hugging."

        Some random thoughts.

        Loved the whole scene in Rupert/Danny's bedroom particularly the "being scared is a super power" speech. I wonder how many children are going to take that to their hearts & use it? Oh and "A soldier so brave he doesn't need a gun. He can keep the whole world safe." & " The deep and lovely dark... you would never see the stars without it." Brilliant.

        I can imagine 4th Doctor behaving the way the 12th Doctor does in this episode. Is it just me that is seeing more & more of Sarah Jane in Clara as the series progresses? Clara has grown on me loads.

        Seeing plenty of parallels - something under the bed, children's home, something to be afraid of that can't be seen, corner of your eye, end of the universe etc. Something else that did briefly cross my mind was actually something from Sherlock. When the waiter in the restaurant asks Clara & Danny if they want "Water for the table?", it just reminded me a bit of 'Sherlock', when Sherlock reveals to John that he is still alive. Is the waiter of more importance than he appears? Or just a waiter.

        At the end of the universe when the Doctor is talking about not hearing anything. I had a bit of a giggle as it reminded me of

        Kryten: Listen! Can anyone hear anything?
        Cat: (Pause. There is silence.) No.
        Kryten: Precisely. No one can hear anything! And you know WHY we can't hear anything?
        Rimmer: Why?
        Kryten: (In the Voice Of Doom) Because there are NO sounds to hear.
        Rimmer: Kryten, isn't it round about this time of year that your head goes back to the lab for re-tuning?

        Absolutely loved the ending. I assumed that the crying little boy was going to be Danny... but then... Wow! Words fail me. Super emotional. BTW I just adore seeing little pieces of the Doctor's past. The 3rd Doctor talking to Jo about the "Daisiest daisy" is one of my faves too.

        "Sontarans perverting the course of human history" Echoes of the 4th Doctor in Robot, and the 1st Doctor, "Fear makes companions of us all."

        I love what Jenna calls a "Moffat loop" where Clara tells the Doctor something that she has already heard him say.

        My mind is boggling somewhat about the toy soldier.

        9.5/10 - Favourite episode of this series so far, and potentially one of my best ever episodes.


        Edit - I've just seen someone mention that "Listen" is an anagram of "Silent".
        Last edited by Blencathra; September 14, 2014, 11:31 AM.

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          #19
          1. The Clara-Danny thing is a bit cheesy!

          2. But the fact that she wound up in Danny's timeline was a good laugh!

          3. Clara comforting kid-Doctor? Puhleese!

          Generally very creepy though!
          I SURF FOR THE FREEDOM!

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            #20
            Originally posted by Coco Pops View Post
            Seems awful convenient for this episode

            I can think of a number of times that feature could have come in handy.
            True but it was hardly fool proof. I mean, yes, by chance they found their way to Rupert who had just had the dream, but The Doctor wanted to go to Clara's past, not Danny's. Now the TARDIS probably locked in on Danny because of her and his relationship and the future they had together, resulting in Orson. However, from the Doctor's point of view that's still pretty temperamental if you don't quite know where you're going to end up and indeed might end up anyway if the subject's thoughts stray just a little. Plus ordinarily there are other means to track down the source of what he's after, in this case he was hunting down something as vague as a dream which doesn't leave a lot of options.
            Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

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              #21
              Originally posted by Blencathra View Post
              "Sontarans perverting the course of human history" Echoes of the 4th Doctor in Robot, and the 1st Doctor, "Fear makes companions of us all."
              I found that Sontaran quote rather intriguing because as the running theory is beginning to be that much of this season has a lot to do with the doctor's dreams and his imagination and his general psychology, it did seem like the blurry image of the creature, once it took off the bedding did seem a little Sontaran like. Slimmer to be sure but still a very potato like head. I'm starting to think that some how some thing is projecting the Doctor's hopes, fears and imaginings into the real world.
              Case 1: An android which the Doctor was able to convince to kill himself, thereby preventing the Doctor from having to do it for him. The Doctor never likes to kill, and though we don't see how it happened, if we presume that the clockwork man was the one to do it then that would have been the Doctor's greatest hope in tha situation as he never wants to kill if he can avoid it.

              Case 2: A good Dalek... speaks for itself.

              Case 3: The Doctor does not believe in Robin Hood, so when Clara insists on meeting him, not only do they find Robin instantly, but they also find a perfectly cliche and idealised version of him, which is the version that the Doctor would most likely think of when he derides him so much.

              Case 4: A dream which the Doctor can remember as a child and seemingly everyone else does which he makes a point to track down and investigate. Now the episode has two sides to it. Clara makes the assumption that the Listeners (I'm gonna call them that) are all in the Doctor's head, however that does not account for the one seen in Pink's bedroom. But much like the idealized Robin Hood and Rusty, it could very well be that the creature was something from the Doctor's imagination made manifest....

              It's interesting that Moffat did say that there was no running storyline in this season, however it is pretty clear that there is a running theme. I like it. It's very subtle. Much more bad Wolf or Torchwood than River Song or Impossible girl.
              Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

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                #22
                Originally posted by P-90_177 View Post
                I found that Sontaran quote rather intriguing because as the running theory is beginning to be that much of this season has a lot to do with the doctor's dreams and his imagination and his general psychology, it did seem like the blurry image of the creature, once it took off the bedding did seem a little Sontaran like. Slimmer to be sure but still a very potato like head. I'm starting to think that some how some thing is projecting the Doctor's hopes, fears and imaginings into the real world.
                I have that very scene paused right now, it looks like whatever it is has hair??
                I do agree however that the series seems to be focussing on the Doctors Psychology and mental makeup. One thing I have considered is weather the doctor is in some way "who he needs to be" at any given point in time. It's harder to project that notion back into "classic who", but not so hard in NuWho.

                Case 1: An android which the Doctor was able to convince to kill himself, thereby preventing the Doctor from having to do it for him. The Doctor never likes to kill, and though we don't see how it happened, if we presume that the clockwork man was the one to do it then that would have been the Doctor's greatest hope in tha situation as he never wants to kill if he can avoid it.
                He never likes to kill, but I see no real evidence that he won't kill if he has no choice. One might say he just does not like to get his hands dirty.

                Case 2: A good Dalek... speaks for itself.
                Ahh, but even Rusty said he was not a "good" Dalek, he said the Doctor was a good Dalek, only exterminating those who he deems deserving of it.
                Case 3: The Doctor does not believe in Robin Hood, so when Clara insists on meeting him, not only do they find Robin instantly, but they also find a perfectly cliche and idealised version of him, which is the version that the Doctor would most likely think of when he derides him so much.
                Perhaps they only find Robin because an "evil" has arisen, one that should not exist in Earths history, and when evil arises, is it silly to think that a *good man* may rise as well?

                Case 4: A dream which the Doctor can remember as a child and seemingly everyone else does which he makes a point to track down and investigate. Now the episode has two sides to it. Clara makes the assumption that the Listeners (I'm gonna call them that) are all in the Doctor's head, however that does not account for the one seen in Pink's bedroom. But much like the idealized Robin Hood and Rusty, it could very well be that the creature was something from the Doctor's imagination made manifest....
                But Clara *was* there, her timeline is fragmented due to jumping into the doctors time stream, she is there when the Doctor needs saving, if only from his own fears. Perhaps the "ghosts" at the end of time are all the Clara's that have died to save the Doctor?
                Perhaps now he is considering the impact of that choice on his life? Clara IS, up until this version of the Doctor his constant companion.
                It's interesting that Moffat did say that there was no running storyline in this season, however it is pretty clear that there is a running theme. I like it. It's very subtle. Much more bad Wolf or Torchwood than River Song or Impossible girl.
                To be honest, from a story perspective, I hope this is the last season with Clara. I like the character, but it still feels like the "impossible girl" story with her being around, let her's be the "death in heaven". Give her the send off she deserves, like they did with Donna.
                sigpic
                ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
                A lie is just a truth that hasn't gone through conversion therapy yet
                The truth isn't the truth

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by P-90_177 View Post
                  True but it was hardly fool proof. I mean, yes, by chance they found their way to Rupert who had just had the dream, but The Doctor wanted to go to Clara's past, not Danny's. Now the TARDIS probably locked in on Danny because of her and his relationship and the future they had together, resulting in Orson. However, from the Doctor's point of view that's still pretty temperamental if you don't quite know where you're going to end up and indeed might end up anyway if the subject's thoughts stray just a little. Plus ordinarily there are other means to track down the source of what he's after, in this case he was hunting down something as vague as a dream which doesn't leave a lot of options.

                  I prefer to think of it as the TARDIS taking them where they need to be rather then following Clara's timeline as after all I suspect the TARDIS knows the history of well history, everything.......
                  Go home aliens, go home!!!!

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                    #24
                    Rose: You didn't tell me I could just stick my hands into the console?!
                    10.5: I didn't think it would be brought up!
                    Rose: That's it. We are SO divorced!!
                    10.5: Blame the TARDIS! It shrinked me once!
                    "I have never understood why it should be necessary to become irrational in order to prove that you care... or why it should be necessary to prove it at all."

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by Blencathra View Post
                      At the end of the universe when the Doctor is talking about not hearing anything. I had a bit of a giggle as it reminded me of

                      Kryten: Listen! Can anyone hear anything?
                      Cat: (Pause. There is silence.) No.
                      Kryten: Precisely. No one can hear anything! And you know WHY we can't hear anything?
                      Rimmer: Why?
                      Kryten: (In the Voice Of Doom) Because there are NO sounds to hear.
                      Rimmer: Kryten, isn't it round about this time of year that your head goes back to the lab for re-tuning?
                      I wondered why that sounded so familiar - thanks!
                      sigpic

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                        #26
                        Interesting theory about dreams & imagination. I'll have to think about that more when I've woken up a bit.

                        Originally posted by min min light View Post
                        I wondered why that sounded so familiar - thanks!
                        You're welcome!


                        Tweet from David Hewlett

                        https://twitter.com/dhewlett/status/511306365823098880

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                          #27
                          Hewlett really needs to get a big role again...

                          Anyways, did no one notice that the reference to Sontarans changing history was about DW Legacy?
                          "I have never understood why it should be necessary to become irrational in order to prove that you care... or why it should be necessary to prove it at all."

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by rushy View Post
                            Hewlett really needs to get a big role again...

                            Anyways, did no one notice that the reference to Sontarans changing history was about DW Legacy?

                            Yep they've done it several times. "The Sontaran Experiment" and "The Invasion Of Time," and a few other stories that I can't recall.
                            Go home aliens, go home!!!!

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                              #29
                              I was a big Clara&Doctor shipper back in series 7 (and still am in a way). Pinky seems cool and I truly empathize with him but he still has more to prove before I start shipping those two.

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                              Stargate spin off series: Stargate Millennium
                              https://www.fanfiction.net/u/5580179/StargateMillennium

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                                #30
                                Finaly got round to watch the episode, Didn't have time Saturday night and was way too tierd yesterday. Well I still, am, but anyway.

                                I loved it. Very "Freud" with all that stuff about fear, and going bck to your childhood, and everything. Great atmosphere of suspence, littert with a good bit of humor. Couldn't close my mouth at the end, with the crieing child and the blink at the war doctor.

                                As for the toy-soldier ... I don't think, that Clara nessesaily was the grand-grand-(more grunds?)ma of Orson. Clara iniciated the toy-Talisman-story with little Rupert, who passed it on to his son, etc. til Orson. When Orson tells Clara about Timetravel in his family I guess he means, that there is a story, that his grand-grandpa was a timetreveler, which suggest, that Danny is going to treval with Clara and the Doctor. Orson gives the Toy to CLra, probably, just because he is the last human anyway, or mybe he's seen itures from her? And only after that, Clara gives the Toy to little Doctor. So the Doctor simply is the last ti get the toy, and there is no need to persume a deeper connection between the Pinks and the Doctor.


                                Originally posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
                                [...]
                                But Clara *was* there, her timeline is fragmented due to jumping into the doctors time stream, she is there when the Doctor needs saving, if only from his own fears. Perhaps the "ghosts" at the end of time are all the Clara's that have died to save the Doctor?
                                Perhaps now he is considering the impact of that choice on his life? Clara IS, up until this version of the Doctor his constant companion.

                                To be honest, from a story perspective, I hope this is the last season with Clara. I like the character, but it still feels like the "impossible girl" story with her being around, let her's be the "death in heaven". Give her the send off she deserves, like they did with Donna.
                                Interessting theory. You could have a point there. I think I like that. And yeah, as much, as I like Clary, your're probably right there, too. Myby it is getting time for her to leave. If not at the end of this season, than in the next? But we'll se.

                                That's it for now.
                                Nobody asked me, if I wanted to live. So don't anyone tell me how I shoul lead my life.

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