Father's Day (2708/108)

[SGalisa]

re: the episode "Father's Day"

This ep was one of the most unusual for me. It was such a departure from the standard WHO eps, even with time-looping and time travel, that my initial thought was "weird"!

But I really liked it, too!!
Liked the thematic scythe tails on the reaper bat-like critters. CGI or whatever it was, was good too!

The initialization appearance of the Tardis lost in time/space was fascinating and nicely done, too!
Doctor in the pulpit: "Don't touch *that* key!!"

and the Doctor being so modest for being a know-it-all... "yes, I give that impression"

So, even without the Doctor and the Time Lords (potentially) tampering with time:
Time itself has a back-up safety feature to restore itself - if it gets discovered. And Pete realized it via the time-looping car...

[northstar_08030]

I have to said that is a much more darker take on alterling timelines and one that I haven't seen before. 90% of the time, when a timeline gets altered, the world gets changed, but life still goes on, despite the fact that the world that one used to know is different. I.E. Stargate's episode "Moebius".

Also I have to said that I love the design of the Reapers, and they kind of reminds me of The Langoliers, from the Stephen King's mini-series called The Langoliers that aired in 1995.

I thought that this was funny, that the Bride to Be, scream at the sight of the Reaper and then the Reaper went for another person.

[ShadowMaat]

I'd say the reapers were interested in older things (hence the Doctor's comment about "I'm the oldest thing here!"), but that doesn't explain why the kids in the park were taken. Unless it was a wrong place/wrong time (ha!) thing.

Does that mean Mickey was the youngest kid?

[Easter Lily]

Nessia(sp) and Tegan asked the Doctor to go back and get Advrik after the ship expolded in Earth Shock

True... good point... (Nyssa, by the way)
But it's interesting that he assented on this occasion.
I suppose there's Ghost Light too... not quite the same thing... but somewhat related.

[Flyboy]

I'd say the reapers were interested in older things (hence the Doctor's comment about "I'm the oldest thing here!"), but that doesn't explain why the kids in the park were taken. Unless it was a wrong place/wrong time (ha!) thing.

Does that mean Mickey was the youngest kid?

No. They were interested in anything new. The newer the thing, the more they wanted to devour it. Hence they couldnt attack the church (at first). But when the Doc said "im the oldest thing here" he wanted to act like a shield, unfortunatly, the reapers had become so strong, that they didnt have that problem any more.

[ShadowMaat]

No. They were interested in anything new. The newer the thing, the more they wanted to devour it. Hence they couldnt attack the church (at first). But when the Doc said "im the oldest thing here" he wanted to act like a shield, unfortunatly, the reapers had become so strong, that they didnt have that problem any more.

OK, so scratch all that, then. So did they just go after people randomly, then? Why the father instead of the bride? Just because he ran?

I suppose it doesn't matter. Don't want to get too over-analytical. I'm just curious, now.

[Wraith Scientist]

I may be overanalyzing it but:

Quantum theory says that an event only happens if it is measured, so by devouring every consiousness in the vicinity of the time paradox, the Reapers ensured that the paradox couldn't have massive repercussions throughout the rest of the universe by efectively eliminating the paradox - if there's nobody there to see it then it didn't happen.

The Reapers are transdimensional, so they can't get through barrier that have been there for a long time because they can't simply 'sneak past' the through a time-frame when the barrier wasn't there. As they grew in strength, they were able to permiate further in time away from the current time-frame and so became able to cross the barrier at a time when it hadn't been built yet.

Speculation is fun

PS: Don't take any of this too seriously

[Flyboy]

OK, so scratch all that, then. So did they just go after people randomly, then? Why the father instead of the bride? Just because he ran?

I suppose it doesn't matter. Don't want to get too over-analytical. I'm just curious, now.

Why do I have images of Sam Neil yelling "Don't move! They cant see you if you dont move"?

Hmm, if I had my DVDs Id watch the episode again... but my girlfriend has them (and probabley will for some time). I really dont know why they went for the dad and not the bride.

But anything new was at risk, Im sure the doctor said that, thats why they took shelter in the church because of its age. I believe the concept was that older things had been established already and were further away from the point of temporal error.

Though to be honest, if the younger things were safer, it would make a lot of sense as to why the bride was spared, she was carrying a baby afterall.

EDIT:

I may be overanalyzing it but:

Quantum theory says that an event only happens if it is measured, so by devouring every consiousness in the vicinity of the time paradox, the Reapers ensured that the paradox couldn't have massive repercussions throughout the rest of the universe by efectively eliminating the paradox - if there's nobody there to see it then it didn't happen.

The Reapers are transdimensional, so they can't get through barrier that have been there for a long time because they can't simply 'sneak past' the through a time-frame when the barrier wasn't there. As they grew in strength, they were able to permiate further in time away from the current time-frame and so became able to cross the barrier at a time when it hadn't been built yet.

Of course, that's just one possible explaination

Speculation is fun

PS: Don't take any of this too seriously

I like you. You think well my friend.

[Thermonuclearboy]

The message of this episode was...confusing. If you interfere with the flow of time, the Langoliers...erm, sorry, Reapers, will destroy the world? Then why doesn't that happen when the Doctor does it?

I was disappointed. If saving Rose's father triggered a chain of events that inadvertantly caused the end of the world, I would have liked the episode better. Just having "time parasites" come in seemed like a cop-out, that frankly seems to jibe with the rest of Who-lore.

[Flyboy]

The message of this episode was...confusing. If you interfere with the flow of time, the Langoliers...erm, sorry, Reapers, will destroy the world? Then why doesn't that happen when the Doctor does it?

I was disappointed. If saving Rose's father triggered a chain of events that inadvertantly caused the end of the world, I would have liked the episode better. Just having "time parasites" come in seemed like a cop-out, that frankly seems to jibe with the rest of Who-lore.

Ergh.

Well.

The timelords had what they saw as "Established Time". Basically they could see everything that had been and most of what would be, though as far as Im aware they cant see their own fate.

So, when something contradicts established time, such as the Daleks invading a planet when they shouldnt be able to. The time lords could safely step in, because they were fixing the timeline as it were.

Now, the day when Rose's day died was week at the quantum level due to the fact that there were two sets of Doctor in one area. And not jsut two different bodies, they were almost identical versions. Based on someone incomprehensible ideas of physics that would put a huge strain on the quantum layout of the time period, meaning it was weak enough for the repaers to come in and "fix" things.

Its probable that this weakness in time is what actually meant that the alteration in time which was actually COUNTERING established time brought about the end of the world.

[Wraith Scientist]

The message of this episode was...confusing. If you interfere with the flow of time, the Langoliers...erm, sorry, Reapers, will destroy the world? Then why doesn't that happen when the Doctor does it?

I was disappointed. If saving Rose's father triggered a chain of events that inadvertantly caused the end of the world, I would have liked the episode better. Just having "time parasites" come in seemed like a cop-out, that frankly seems to jibe with the rest of Who-lore.

It's time paradoxes that cause the Reapers to appear: If she went back in time to save her father, then her father would have been alive, and so there would be no need to go back and save him.

The Reapers protect the rest of the universe from the bizare effects of a temporal paradox by preventing any consiousness from ever seeing it by devouring them and so locking the time paradox in an uncollapsed quantum superposition.

The time lords used to do this, but now they're gone, so the Reapers have taken over as the guardians of time against time paradoxes.

[Flyboy]

It's time paradoxes that cause the Reapers to appear: If she went back in time to save her father, then her father would have been alive, and so there would be no need to go back and save him.

The Reapers protect the rest of the universe from the bizare effects of a temporal paradox by preventing any consiousness from ever seeing it by devouring them and so locking the time paradox in an uncollapsed quantum superposition.

The time lords used to do this, but now they're gone, so the Reapers have taken over as the guardians of time against time paradoxes.

I'm not sure they're guardians as such. I dont think theyre anything more than just time parasites. I think they're what happens when the **** hits the fan as it were.

[Wraith Scientist]

I'm not sure they're guardians as such. I dont think theyre anything more than just time parasites. I think they're what happens when the **** hits the fan as it were.

Something has to nullify paradoxes

But yeah, I think they're mostly in it for the people-eating

[creed462]

I think they could be a potential enemy in the future.

[Flyboy]

I think they could be a potential enemy in the future.

I don't think so. They're not so much enemys as a fail safe. They have no real "evil" in them, they only come around when you've made a cock up with time, and in those instances, its preferable to fix time and not fight.