Torn (306)

[DigiFluid]

All in interpretation, I suppose. I mostly disagree with your assessment.

I don't see the Adama/Starbuck/Tigh faceoff as a reset at all. At the beginning of the series, Starbuck was very much a daughter to Adama (like he said). Now that's changed. She's burned a lot of bridges, and it'll be a while before she's able to fix that. Tigh started the show as a depressed alcoholic. I got the vibe that now he's a depressed, villainous alcoholic. I don't mean to say that he's going to help the Cylons or anything, but I can't help but think he's going to be a colossal pain in the ass for the fleet from here on out.

Regarding Sharon being the one to find the Basestar....come on, did you expect anything else? Grace Park does have main cast billing.

I also don't think it's much of a stretch that Baltar's been hard at work on finding Earth, or at least was until the Occupation. He's an intelligent guy, and before his descent into alcoholism, pill popping, and whoring he must have been doing something to occupy his mind. He hasn't been 'sitting on them,' he hasn't even worked out the full solution yet! It was a work in progress. I mean, how much good does it do if you only have a vague idea? Suppose you want to drop a bomb on one particular person, and the only information you have is that he's somewhere in the United States. You've narrowed down the target area a bit, but the information is still comparatively useless. Now apply that to three-dimensional galactic space and the information becomes even more useless. Now we've just got both teams scouring the general direction they know they need to go in.

I don't think Sharon's lack of projecting is much of an issue either. The Sharon in "Downloaded" was a sleeper agent, who until her attack on Cmdr. Adama, was unaware of her true nature. Even after she had downloaded, we saw that she was still having trouble accepting what she was. Why should she be able to project back then? Now that she's spent a lot longer among her own and come to terms with it all, it's reasonable to guess that she can project, but back in "Downloaded" it makes perfect sense that she would have no idea.

As for what I agree with, the sudden drop of Lee's weight and the return of the six-pack was a bit shocking. I wish I could do that in a week!

I'm also inclined to agree with your Star Trek assessment of the Cylon situation. It was nice to see the other side of the coin in "Downloaded", but I'm not enjoying the Basestar story a whole lot. The show has always been about the human race and having that much screen time devoted to the villains is a bit of a bold departure from the show's foundation.

[LaCroix]

I'm a little confused. Which pilot were they looking for a new call sign?

[ShadowMaat]

I'm a little confused. Which pilot were they looking for a new call sign?

Boomer. I mean, Sharon. She made a point of saying that she, Sharon Agathon, was not the Boomer they remembered- "That was someone else." So Helo asked the room for suggestions for a new callsign for her and Athena is the one that stuck. I'm a little iffy on the name but I guess we'll see how it works out.

[Chricton]

Wow, I serisouly couldn't disagree more. I thought that was one of the best episodes since the first season.

[LaCroix]

Boomer. I mean, Sharon. She made a point of saying that she, Sharon Agathon, was not the Boomer they remembered- "That was someone else." So Helo asked the room for suggestions for a new callsign for her and Athena is the one that stuck. I'm a little iffy on the name but I guess we'll see how it works out.

Thanks. I wasn't too sure last night. I was really tired.

[daniel9]

i start to wonder if baltar is a cylon ornot. i mean there is alot of proof that he isnt. but then he can project like cylons can. but however the final5 cylons might be able to project themselves and their enviroments into other ppls minds. baltar's lieing about the infected device could be him wanting to stay out of trouble with the cylons or he could believe if they know about the device theyd stop going for earth, which i guess is something he doesnt want? the head sixseems to know the future or that something will happen where baltar will need extensive knowledge about the cylons in order to fix. but this doesnot seem to be the disease from the device. is head six really one of the final 5 that is on earth now.there is also the prophecy. a dieing leader is supposed to guide them to earth. now why isnt rosslin doing the guiding since she is supposed to be that person? she was in there with gaeta and adama looking at baltar's research. the prophecy also doesnt say if the dieing leader is cylon or human. and why is it that baltar and head six both seem to know more than the rest of the cylons and the humans? lol im rambling i know

Two things, first adama passed baltars cylon detector which we know for a fact does indeed work

2nd - ron moore has been planning a new series with the adama family at the heart and center of it in the first cylon war

Also dont you think he if was a cylon why on earth would the cylons send boomer to kill him back in season one?

actuallythe first isnt true. if u remember adama never passed becuz of rosslin continuously telling baltar to stop adamas test and to test tigh's wife.

[foxhound22]

If Adama is a Cylon, then there is something wrong with Tigh because they have known each other since just after the end of the first Cylon war. So I think the whole theory of the Adama's as cylons is not an option. As far as we know, there were no skinjobs during the first cylon war. Plus we know for a fact that Adama fought in the first war because if you remember in the mini-series they found his original viper.

[daniel9]

well the adamas seemingly have always been against the cylons but what about adama senior's wife aka bill adama's mother? or bill adama's wife aka apollo's mother. i guess we will see in the caprica series

[Astrofighter]

It still doesnt change the fact that they cylons tried to kill him.

If he was a cylon then he wouldn't have killed so many and keep on killing so many. He'd just upload a virus to the ship and have it take out the fleet and vent the atmosphere...

[Ojos]

So I'm definitely not a fan of those who gush about much of anything, much less a TV show (except you, titans!). I've lurked around here and even been posting under various names over the past 2 1/2 years, and the fanboi factor has been skyrocketing. Leave it to the teeny boppers and their boy bands, folks. That said, WOW.

This was a Cylon episode, first and foremost, and I'm glad we got it. The fact that they're becoming just as flawed and, dare I say human, as we are, is simply amazing. RDM isn't letting the Cylons just be the bad guys. He's making them out to be something else.

I wasn't a fan of the Star Trek feel of the episode, but I forgive RDM for it. We can't forget our roots, can we? Besides, his work on DS9 was phenomenal. The virus bit has potential, but I'm just hoping to GOD that they resolve it and get it out of the way. Maybe, just MAYBE, they can hold on to it a-la Alpha-Red in NJO. Still, seeing the dying skinjobs really reminded me of seeing Outbreak. That dying 6 was really spot on. Seriously.

The Hybrid on each basestar introduces a whole new element to the show. What must it have been like for the one on the basestar Peggy rammed? Yeah, they reminded me of the precogs in The Minority Report also. Still, the idea is solid. The Leoben tie was great. I'm glad to see that they're keeping him true to his spiritual roots, rather than a raging phallus focused on Kara alone. Where they take this Hybrid idea in the future should be quite interesting.

And how about those basestar effects? Their CIC looked beautiful.

As for Baltar as one of the Final Five, I somehow doubt it. It would be too much of a cop-out to make him one. His projecting could be anything, from an artifact of the Head-Six, to the fact that he's losing his frakking mind one episode at a time. We really don't know, and I like that.

Three is pretty well done for. The more I look at it, the more I'm convinced that she's getting too big for her britches. Her display of anger in CIC and the subsequent silence and acquiescence speaks volumes about Cylon society. They're supposed to be based around consensus, not slamming your fist down.

Eddie Olmos, as always, delivers. He definitely brought Kara into line with that speech of his, but I'm convinced he's pushing Saul further and further away. I'm glad I wasn't the only one who thought Tigh would shoot himself with Kara's pistol. New Caprica broke him, and it's sad. The fact that Michael Hogan is doing so much with the role is amazing. It's about time they threw him a bone. Two years of being "the guy with the bad idea" was long enough. I'm also hoping they keep playing with his grief over Ellen's death.

I like to think that Lee losing the fat happened over weeks and weeks of training. I'm glad it happened, he just wasn't convincing as a fat man. They didn't play enough on his mental state to justify it.

Helo/Sharon for life? I think so. Seriously. I hate shipping, but those two fit together. Athena works for a new callsign, but I'm not a fan. Seriously. It was a nod to TOS, and they could've done better. Some of the other names that were shouted in the rec room, which escape me right now, would've been great.

On a side note, anyone else see Tigh/Kara as the ship that's going to make people angry? That, or a real Kara/Leoben would be nice. Starbuck and Leoben have chemistry, even if it is more in the sense of "it rubs the lotion on its skin" instead of hot passion.

And on that note, adieu!

[DigiFluid]

Starbuck and Leoben have chemistry, even if it is more in the sense of "it rubs the lotion on its skin" instead of hot passion.

LOL

Funniest (and most apt) comment in the thread!

[Zamboni]

Awesome episode. Little Kara is so cute. Amazing character developments. Feeling sad for Tigh. Sharon (albeit don't think it's Sharon, what number is she again, 8?) doing tai-chi in the NUDE!!!

Who said the insides of Basestars looked barren?

So glad they've gone back to the "find earth" plot.

[number13]

It did! And the Cylon scenes reminded me of "2001, A Space Odyssey". It gave a strange atmosphere to the Cylon ships scenes. Sometimes it works to be derivative.

Ditto here. I saw dave staring around in the room. No doubt where the influence came from there. And I think and analogy applies there as well as Dave was there to "die" before he could be reborn into a star child.

I think the human Baltar will die on that basestar. The Cylon Baltar will be reborn there. It's too obvious now that Baltar really is a Cylon ... and for some reason the other Cylons don't know. Hmmm... I wonder what the missing 7 have been up to?

Perhaps it is Baltar that is the real number 13.

And BTW, why only 12 models? Why can't the Cylons seem to make more models?

[number13]

This disease thing has me a bit worried about the series. It's obvious from the preview of the next episode that the humans figure out what killed the baseship and the cylons. Now, suddenly, they have an uber-weapon upon which they can kill all the cylons (or at least reduce them in number, maybe forcing them to destroy their ressurection ships until they can contain the infection). At that point the threat of destruction by the cylons is drastically reduced, since the humans can simply let them know they have the disease, and force the Cylons to back off, lest the humans come after them for vengence. Or, as the next episode obviously is about, they go through an agonization as to whether to unlease their newfound bio-weapon upon the cylons. Either way (they use the disease or hold it as a "doomsday device" to keep the cylons away), now the series is no longer about the rag-tag fleet fleeing cylons and a hair's breath away from destruction. That changes things far more than New Caprica did when they colonized it.

I have faith in Mr. Moore, but this disease thing has me very worried. Lets see where it goes.

Yes Mr. Data, but it is unethical to introduce your little Escher drawing to the Borg. Then the whole species would die.

BTW, there can still be some other humans out there that may have departed the colonies previously.

[number13]

How about those weird things from the Chronicles of Riddick. Their prophetic, or inane ramblings harken back to them.

On another note, I have to agree with the jumping thing, I don't think they were really in any pain. The way it was said was just so...

I think there is prior art before that. The truly original idea is a VERY rare thing. I'm not surprised that you can find analogues elsewhere. The idea of biological computers is not new. You can look to William Gibson for that and no doubt he lifted it from someone else.

And BTW, my theory on the Matrix ... The Matrix did not run on computers, the people WERE the computers. They became the "wetware" on which the relatively "humanoid" processes (ones with emotion) were running. The Matrix was where the superior processes ran. Hence the "lesser forms of existence" that they Architect referred to. Without the wetware, the higher processes would loose much of their consciousness.

How did Smith download into a human? Because he was designed to operate in human wetware in the first place. He just started operating serially instead of in parallell.