Battlestar Galactica: Razor

[g.o.d]

Have you seen Pegasus extended version? Adama explains it there. He said Cain had a contacts and the Fleet promoted her to a rear-admiral over half of the commanders on the list

[Ouroboros]

That's a very good point. High standards will be the death of us

I've said before that BSG has ruined me for other sci-fi shows. I'm not even kidding.

Right, which I think disappointed a lot of people. Maybe if Fisk had exaggerated a bit, it would have been more interesting, although personally I loved watching it play out. Just the whole scene where the Cylons are attacking, he refuses, takes his sidearm, and blasts his head off, I was going "oh frak, oh frak" because I KNEW what was coming, but was hoping it wouldn't come to that.

Yep, I was expecting something more along the lines of "yes they did shoot those civillians but they did so after they refused to give over misc vital FTL components and other repair parts that the pegasus needed after the scorpion shipyards attack and making that blind jump. Something that would make what the pegasus did still morally reprehensible but that would also make at least some degree of sense from a purely logical standpoint if you take morals out of the equation.

Basically make it that Cain did attack and kill them but did so because the alternative would have been Pegasus eventually losing the ability to jump after x number of jumps and being permanently stranded as a result of damage sustained at the shipyard. At least then you've got a semi rational reason for everything on both sides. Cain wants the parts to repair her ships FTL drive from the civillian ships because her ship will son become useless and crippled without them and the civillian ships want the parts because firstly, they're theirs, and naturally because they don't want to be left stranded either. So Cain opens by trying to order/intimidate them to give the parts over rather than ask or negotiate because that's the way she is and because "military needs take precident", they tell her no way and that they're sorry but it's everyone for themselves now, so she says "ok then" and sends vipers and raptors to cripple and then board and take the parts by force. Some of the civillian ships are destroyed with all hands in the initial stages because they're not armoured or designed to withstand being shot at, plus some people try to resist the boarding parties when they arrive and are shot by Pegasus marines. Pegasus then takes what it wants from the ships that were successfully disabled and raids in EVA suits those ships that ended up depressurized or otherwise damaged badly enough by the attempts to cripple them for boarding that everyone on them was killed.

Then you've got a really ugly situation and an obvious crossing of moral lines by the pegasus but at the same time something that can actually make sense in the context of the sort of post apocalyptic world they now found themsleves in. It's also a more gradual step because with things going down this way Cain and the other officers can at least try to rationalize what they did to themsleves with notions like "they brought it on themselves" and "if they'd only just given us what we asked for" and possibly even later with a sort of "survival of the fittest" thinking.

I will agree with that, the aired version was terrible. If the full film with all the cutscenes had been included, I think it would have been better appreciated. Particularly the one where Cain's sister gets abducted, and it shows the city/slum on Tauron blasted to rubble.

I can't imagine why they were cut. They're the only scenes in any of the episodes with Cain that actually give any deeper insight into her character other than "she went nuts for some reason".

Really? I thought that was one of the strongest aspects of the film. Not only did it serve as a great nod to the original series by portraying the old-style Cylons and Raiders and Basestars and such, it served to advance the plot significantly. It's where we first hear about Kara Thrace as the harbinger of doom who will lead the humans and cylons to their end. And to boot it had a good plot, with the rescue of the scientists. I do agree that it didn't seem to really enhance the Pegasus storyline, but the movie to me is more about Kendra Shaw than it is about the Pegasus.

Oh no, I liked the present day story as well, I also liked the minisodes that led up to it. I just feel that both of these stories probably would have been better served apart than mashed together the way they were. Then you have to consider that they promoted Razor as basically a revisitation of the whole pegasus storyline. Even though the present day storyline was well done I'm sure a few people ended up feeling confused or even ripped off that the "movie about the pegasus" they thought they'd be watching actually wasn't.

Well, that's a big theme in the show, isn't it? Our leaders are not always the best people, but they think that what they're doing is the best course of action - and Cain was emblematic of that. She believed that by sending vipers on suicide missions to destroy minor targets was hitting a nasty blow to them and that the sacrifice of many pilots was worth it. She didn't think about the fact that the human race was essentially running into it's own doom.

Trouble is that I percieved a conflict between what Adama says and what we actually saw happen in the film. Adama even says something to the effect that her tactics were flawless if I recall, when we can see that this quite clearly wasn't the case. The version of Cain that Adama describes is cold and calculating and who did the things she did simply because she wasn't going to allow morality to get in the way of her objectives. Objectives which were ultimately largely benevolent, at least for those on her ship. As told by him her story is more of a warning about one loosing their grip on their humanity in the zealous pursuit of a goal, in Cain's case the goal being primariyl survival for those people she was directly responsible for and continuing the fight against the Cylons in whatever capacity she could.

Now the actual episode though doesn't paint that picture at all. It paints the picture of a woman who was driven to what she did largely as a result of her own emotional frailties and deeply rooted psychological trauma from childhood. Her primary goal being to commit "suicide by Cylon" while dragging a few thousand others along for the ride.

Now I like the first version a lot better myself. I think it has a lot more relevance to the themes of the series at large as it shows that just pure physical survival at all costs is not enough. It revisits the same "are we worthy of survival" idea from the Adama/Sharon talk and forces the viewer, and the other series regular characters, to think about what they'd potentially be willing to do to survive and how they'd live with it afterward.

[Ouroboros]

I got the impression that Cain was some kind of "Star protege", and hence had landed command of a flagship on the basis of her political nouse.

Have you seen Pegasus extended version? Adama explains it there. He said Cain had a contacts and the Fleet promoted her to a rear-admiral over half of the commanders on the list

I've seen pegasus extended yes and he also proceeds the well connected part with talking about how she was "very smart" and "very tough" or something to that effect so it's not really clear cut either way.

Personally I figure that you can explain Cain's rise to admiral at such a young age by just mentally extending the Razor treadmill scene to encompass her entire life since her sister died.

[Sp!der]

hey there,
I just watched on the weekend, and i thought it was an amazing work they did with razor. The backflash with the young Adama are absolutley awesome!!! and I wish they showed more of him in the show, but well anyway loved every bit and piece of the movie.

[mi4si]

I finally got a chance to watch Razor the other day and found it to be pretty entertaining.

[Ulkesh47]

I really dislike "Razor". I thought Kendra Shaw was annoying and just didn't care for the story very much.

There were three good things about it, in my opinion...

1. The little montage showing the death of Pegasus Commanders
2. The glimpse of the Cylon raid of the Colonies
3. Parts of the Hybrid encounter

[blitzsnake]

Cain was so awesome, but the Shaw was kinda meh, For normal Television she was excellent, but by BSG standards the character fell flat.

[janus 510]

Loved the backstory into the pegasus and the old centurions and the battle scenes of the first war

[Stewart5]

I thought it was pretty damn good. Am just trying to figure out how she could have been a teenager at the end of the cylon war and Adama was just a rookie, cos she doesn't seem old enough

[Trig]

My speakers arent brilliant but when "Husker" went after a raider around the bit where the Columbia goes down does he not say "This c**k suckers mine"?!

[DigiFluid]

My speakers arent brilliant but when "Husker" went after a raider around the bit where the Columbia goes down does he not say "This c**k suckers mine"?!

Yes.

[7th Judas]

..But Razor did a really good job showing exactly WHY and HOW adm.Cain became the person we all got to know her. 'T was the love affair that pushed her over the edge, and i think it's good this was explained in "Razor". That she was not totally "bad" to begin with - but things happened... (Had Tricia Helfer betrayed me, I'd gone mad too.)

[Sp!der]

one question, when should i watch razor? between season three and season four or when? im always confused ...

[Trig]

Theres a proper timeline somewhere on the BSG wiki iirc, has the webisodes on it and everything...

[Pharaoh Atem]

one question, when should i watch razor? between season three and season four or when? im always confused ...

after the season 3 episode "the captains hand" razor takes place only days after