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The Caprica Teachers Union and Roslin's History of Violence [Spoilers for Epiphanies]

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    The Caprica Teachers Union and Roslin's History of Violence [Spoilers for Epiphanies]

    More commentary on the unstated implications of Epiphanies, and by exention the Valley of Darkness.

    In the flashbacks to the day of the Cylon attack in Epiphanies we see a fair bit of Roslin dealing with President Adar and with the representative of the teachers union on caprica. Now in the United States teachers unions while powerful and politically active often times, are almost never violent. Americans are more likely to think of violent labor organizations in blue collar organizations--classically the teamsters--and not the teachers union. Ron Moore says as much in his commentaries and in fact got a fair bit of a kick out of the idea that these were teachers were out on the streets of Caprica throwing molotov cocktails and busting heads. Adar even talks about how Roslin's "precious teachers" put two policemen in the hospital during violent protests.

    I've been thinking about this in connection to the general assumption that Roslin herself wasn't a violent person until she fell in love with her first airlock. However, if the teachers unions on Caprica have such a long-standing history of violence (which I think is safely implied from the context of the episode), than it shouldn't be that far a stretch to presume that Laura Roslin might have been on intimimate terms with a molotov cocktail or a throwing stone or two when she was a twenty-two year old woman.

    I doubt she's been involved in union activities in a few decades at the point of that episode, but based on her actions I think it is safe to assume that at some point she was a member of a teachers union if not that teachers union. I wonder if people would think about Roslin the same way if people weren't saying "but she was a teacher" but instead were saying "but she was a teamster."

    As a secondary part of this argument about Roslin's relationship and history with violent action, I am anticipating a question about why she would have turned down the offered pistol in The Valley of Darkness given that they were walking through sections of the ship that were infested with cylons.

    Now she may or may not know how to use a gun, but there were entirely practical and pragmatic reasons for her to decline the weapon. Given the state that Tigh was in at the time, can you imagin what he would have done had he found Roslin in the infirmary at the end of the episode armed? I'm not entirely sure he wouldn't have decided that it was evidence of insurgency and tossed her out an airlock. I trust Roslin to have had an accute enough awareness of her situation to have realized immediately that whatever happened, she did not want to be found by Galactica marines at the end of the day with a weapon.



    #2
    I think Roslin believed teacher´s cause wasn´t worth do die for....but annihilation of your race changes your priorities.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by DOIKECARTER
      I think Roslin believed teacher´s cause wasn´t worth do die for....but annihilation of your race changes your priorities.
      I wasn't suggesting that she thought the teachers strike was worth dying over, but simply given what we know about her and her behavior it's entirely likely that Roslin either had been involved in or had strong sympathies for direct action prior to the destruction of her civilization.

      Some commentators seem to attribute to her pre-Miniseries character as some sort of pacifist or at least mundane main stream views on political violence. Her views on Zarek emphasize this... and what I was pointing out was that given what we know about the nature of labor disbutes on Caprica that involve a union that Roslin was one time a member of with near certainty, is that she was likely involved in at relatively minor violence perhaps twenty years before the events of the mini.

      As I said, twenty-two year old Laura Roslin the teacher on strike throwing a stone at police or maybe lighting a police car on fire. That's different than throwing people out airlocks, sure, but it's also not sweet innocent school teacher.


      Comment


        #4
        But Laura Roslin in EPIPHANIES has already been diagnosed of terminal breast cancer. She know her days are counted and Mary has said many times Cancer has made Laura more focused, more decissive....more agressive? Maybe. We still don´t know Laura Roslin before cancer diagnosis. Her change had already begun.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by DOIKECARTER
          But Laura Roslin in EPIPHANIES has already been diagnosed of terminal breast cancer. She know her days are counted and Mary has said many times Cancer has made Laura more focused, more decissive....more agressive? Maybe. We still don´t know Laura Roslin before cancer diagnosis. Her change had already begun.
          You are very right about that. I think there is also a distinction between being a follower and being a leader. She might have been willing to go along with things before the cancer, and driven to lead them after. Mostly my point was about political violence as a means to solve problems.

          I've seen a lot of discussion about how useful Roslin would be to the resistence, and I was pointing out that she might have more experiance in that sort of thing than we might think.


          Comment


            #6
            Yeah, I see your point. But I keep remembering her face and dismay during "33" and the Olympic Carrier, her reluctance to deal with Zarek in Bastille Day. I always felt she knew the rules of politics but she didn´t play the game till the day she was sworn and once she did....she had to make it right.

            I wish we´d seen more about her relationship with Adar, how much he trusted in her, maybe she was was just an attentive ear...but she lernt a few lessons. Not all of them because I can´t accept her decission of not lying to the people with New Caprica´s issue during the campaign and stealing the election instead.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by DOIKECARTER
              I always felt she knew the rules of politics but she didn´t play the game till the day she was sworn and once she did....she had to make it right.
              I think the Olympic Carrier would have been hard on anyone, even if she had throan a rock or two twenty years before during a demonstration that doesn't equate to ordering three thousand people killed to save another 47,000. I dare say Adar would have had a problem with that decision as well.

              I think the difference is that I don't think she thought of herself as a leader until the day she was sworn in (despite the fact that she's obviously got a gift for it), but I do think she played the political game. She was manipulationg the teachers union rep and Adar quite skillfully and you don't come to that without practice.

              Adar says that "gods know we need your ideas." I think Roslin was an adviser, an intellectual who leveraged influence but never expected to impliment policy herself.


              Comment


                #8
                I remember Colonial Day now when Baltar talked so expressively to the press defending Laura. I don´t remember the exact words but he talked about people who overcame adverse circumstances and rose to the ocassion and on and on...Laura probably didn´t know how much of a leader she was or wasn´t but Richard Adar certainly knew and I guess he´s used her abilities/advices for a while and cancer, holocaust and case orange forced her to take the step. But despite her being able to make questionable decissions (I was shocked when she said Cain needed to be killed), we´ve seen her being affected by them. I could feel her pain during CAPT. HAND while she banned abortion, and at the same time she´s been ruthless as none with the cylons.

                I really want to see Laura and Zarek´s interaction during season 3. Sides are turned now. He is the VP and she is just a school teacher now.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by DOIKECARTER
                  I really want to see Laura and Zarek´s interaction during season 3. Sides are turned now. He is the VP and she is just a school teacher now.
                  There is one episode still from Exodus Part 1 that has the two of them talking and I want to be a fly on that wall so badly.


                  Comment


                    #10
                    Spoiler purists do not read this one and forgive me for not knowing how to hide words
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                    So say we all! There is also a promo picture of the 3rd episode and both are handcuffed. Check:

                    http://www.bsg-cz.net/

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by DOIKECARTER
                      Spoiler purists do not read this one and forgive me for not knowing how to hide words
                      Use a bracket [ than write out the word "spoiler" and than close the bracket ]. Once the spoiler is done, do the same, but write "/spoiler."


                      Comment


                        #12
                        why must ya'll compare that to the US?

                        have you forgot the mexican american war? the indigenous wars before and aztlan? talk about that.
                        A CORNERED FOX IS MORE DANGEROUS THAN A JACKAL!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by GreyFox
                          why must ya'll compare that to the US?

                          have you forgot the mexican american war? the indigenous wars before and aztlan? talk about that.
                          I'm a historian, I can assure you that I am well aware of historical implications, but when it comes down to it, the show is written by Americans (and Canadians) and the producer talks about teachers unions in the podcast in the context of American teachers unions. Among the other upheavals in mexico right now though is a long running labor dispute between a teachers union and a state government... that's probably analogous...

                          Otherwise... I could compare things to events in Korean history but given that this is an english language board many of the other forum members wouldn't understand the comparison... and therefore it wouldn't be all that useful in clarifying the point, now would it?


                          Comment


                            #14
                            oh has the US now conqured korea and stole their land?

                            w/e
                            A CORNERED FOX IS MORE DANGEROUS THAN A JACKAL!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by GreyFox
                              oh has the US now conqured korea and stole their land?

                              w/e
                              The occupation of new caprica has nothing to do with unions or political violence. I'm not quite sure why you think I should use a non-western example when I'm talking about Roslin's background in the teachers union.


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