Discussion about hot topics trending today

[garhkal]

so under your ideal they should be above the law? and also have the right to gun down someone who's fleeing ala Walter Scott? damn that's some serious Big Government worship I didn't expect even from you

lol

No cops SHOULDN'T be above the law. Heck to me when a cop does break the law, they are DOUBLY as bad as a criminal who breaks it, as a criminal has not sworn an oath to UPHOLD IT like the cop has..

Let me translate from Soul's insane ramblings to something more reasonable.

Saying "I don't have to show you ID" should not be an invitation for the use of a gun, especially if the citizen DOESN'T HAVE TO PRODUCE ID BY LAW. And that is where conservatives fall short. In many cases, it's the police that have broken the law.

Let me spell it out here. It's illegal for police to stop a civilian from recording police activity, yet they have done so. It's illegal for the police to barge into a home without probable cause and start threatening a family with criminal charges for objecting to such an action, yet they have done so. It's illegal to demand Identification from a passenger in a routine stop without probable cause, yet they have done so. It's illegal to run up to a random kid, drop kick him and proceed to beat him, lie about the encounter in court documents and yet that has been done. It's also illegal to barge into a person's house without probable cause, accost them while they are naked needlessly groping them, yet it has been done. It's also illegal to strip search and preform a cavity search (ie sodomize and penetrate a woman's vagina) in public without sufficient cause, and that too has been done.

This is what he means by having one law for all classes. That is, making sure the police actually follow the law that governs their behavior. Yet somehow, when the government is in the form of the police, some people suddenly stop caring about the constitution.

All it takes is for one officer in one department to do these things and not get punished. That's all it takes. One person can ruin the lives of many, leave them feeling sexually violated, ruin their career prospects (it has happened), maim them, and even kill them. As long as there is no incentive to not violate the law, it will be violated and that is what is going on. There is no incentive for the police to follow the rules that govern their behavior because they are giving a free "get out of jail" pass. It doesn't matter that for every 1,0000 good cops there is only one bad cop. One is all it takes. If these rules were actually enforced, then perhaps there'd be even less bad cops and people would trust the police. How do I know that I am going to be dealing with that one bad cop? Is that a risk I am willing to take? Is it a risk you are willing to take in the name of police impunity?

+100 to all of that. AND Imo each time those cops get away with it, it makes a mokery of the justice system.

Heck, i cheered several years back when one officer i read about who did violate the law, had to go to the SAME jail the criminals he sent to jail were in.. Cause he had KICKED in the door of a wrong house, and knocked down an 80 yr old man who was using a walker to get to the front door. He supposedly said cause he knocked three times and didn't get an answer he was 'well within his rights to kick the door down'.. Pity the jury didn't see it that way.

[Womble]

as for Egypt I admit I may have missed a few chapters so...what's ISIS' beef against Egypt?
(I thought the 'arab spring' was long over & those countries were back to sharia or something)

Same as ISIS' beef against everyone else. They want one big worldwide, or at least regionwide, Caliphate. Nothing but Islam as far as the eye can see. Egypt, as a secular autocracy and the Arab world's strongest militarly power, is a major obstacle to their dream. So they've been stirring up trouble in the Sinai peninsula for a very long time already.

[Annoyed]

No cops SHOULDN'T be above the law. Heck to me when a cop does break the law, they are DOUBLY as bad as a criminal who breaks it, as a criminal has not sworn an oath to UPHOLD IT like the cop has..

+100 to all of that. AND Imo each time those cops get away with it, it makes a mokery of the justice system.

Heck, i cheered several years back when one officer i read about who did violate the law, had to go to the SAME jail the criminals he sent to jail were in.. Cause he had KICKED in the door of a wrong house, and knocked down an 80 yr old man who was using a walker to get to the front door. He supposedly said cause he knocked three times and didn't get an answer he was 'well within his rights to kick the door down'.. Pity the jury didn't see it that way.

Or course the police should be expected to uphold the laws. And the penalties for a police officer violating the law should be higher than that for a civilian.

But until police are perfect, there will be bad apples, and there is no way to prevent that. Thankfully, percentage wise, the number of police who do misuse their power is very small.

Folks like Soulreaver want to use this tiny percentage of situations as justification for trashing the entire law enforcement system, disarming the police and letting the criminals run wild.

I still haven't heard his idea for an alternative that meets his standards and is also practical and effective at putting the criminals where they belong.

[aretood2]

No cops SHOULDN'T be above the law. Heck to me when a cop does break the law, they are DOUBLY as bad as a criminal who breaks it, as a criminal has not sworn an oath to UPHOLD IT like the cop has..


+100 to all of that. AND Imo each time those cops get away with it, it makes a mokery of the justice system.

Heck, i cheered several years back when one officer i read about who did violate the law, had to go to the SAME jail the criminals he sent to jail were in.. Cause he had KICKED in the door of a wrong house, and knocked down an 80 yr old man who was using a walker to get to the front door. He supposedly said cause he knocked three times and didn't get an answer he was 'well within his rights to kick the door down'.. Pity the jury didn't see it that way.

To me, it really isn't about the police themselves, but everything else around them. They are under immense pressure yet not given the proper training in many different departments. Some of their fellow officers don't know what they're doing, and get away with it because of the police union's blanket defense of all police officers no matter what they do. Several departments are really good. The PA state troopers in my opinion are exemplary, but that doesn't mean they won't beat you to a pulp if you start swinging a knife at people (For the record, that's a good thing).

Or course the police should be expected to uphold the laws. And the penalties for a police officer violating the law should be higher than that for a civilian.

I don't think they should be higher, just have the same penalties. If you falsely and knowingly arrest someone under false pretenses, then that should be kidnapping. That kinda thing. With the level of protections afforded by the constitution, it should be very hard to jail in an innocent officer.

But until police are perfect, there will be bad apples, and there is no way to prevent that. Thankfully, percentage wise, the number of police who do misuse their power is very small.

Folks like Soulreaver want to use this tiny percentage of situations as justification for trashing the entire law enforcement system, disarming the police and letting the criminals run wild.

I still haven't heard his idea for an alternative that meets his standards and is also practical and effective at putting the criminals where they belong.

To be honest, it is easy to get carried away in the moment. But in the end of the day, there is a distinction between someone who isn't provocative getting a beat down...and someone who is speeding at 120MPH in a police chase getting what's coming to him at the inevitable end of that police chase (Always my favorite part in those police chase videos that would come on TV).

My concern/complaint is that those bad apples don't get what they deserve, punishment. And good cops end up paying the price for it. When people who have been wronged don't get justice, they call it out. And the media gets into it...and this last year and a half has been an outburst of it. And as a result, trust and approval of the police have gone down. And the more this continues, then more cops that do use a correct amount of force will get attacked by this movement of discontent as a result of a prejudice.

Police officers need not change anything they do. It's simple. DA's should stop presenting to Grand Jurors like if they were defense attorneys (That would raise the number of indictments). And departments should be liable for civil suits (should incentivize quality internal investigations and training). Two simple moves would solve a huge number of issues.

[SoulReaver]

Folks like Soulreaver want to use this tiny percentage of situations as justification for trashing the entire law enforcement system, disarming the police and letting the criminals run wild.

who said anything about disarming? (they'd all quit if that happened anyway)

I still haven't heard his idea for an alternative that meets his standards and is also practical and effective at putting the criminals where they belong.

correction, you didn't want to hear
I've said this several times, tood also said it so I'll abridge it for your convenience: how about 1 set of laws for all classes of society
simple isn't it

Heck to me when a cop does break the law, they are DOUBLY as bad as a criminal who breaks it,

too bad the judges & the DAs tend not to see it that way eh?

I don't think they should be higher, just have the same penalties

it should be higher: aggravating factors (power = responsibility etc.)

especially since in the US courts consider it an aggravating factor when the SS are the victims (another instance of government worship enshrined into the law) so why not do the same when they're the culprits?

[SoulReaver]

Egypt, as a secular autocracy

k I didn't know that

(since when?)

[Annoyed]

I don't think they should be higher, just have the same penalties.

it should be higher: aggravating factors (power = responsibility etc.)

especially since in the US courts consider it an aggravating factor when the SS are the victims (another instance of government worship enshrined into the law) so why not do the same when they're the culprits?

Ladies and Gentlemen, Hell hath frozen over.

The penalties for officer illegalities should be higher, call it a penalty for "betrayal of public trust" or some such.

[SoulReaver]

Ladies and Gentlemen, Hell hath frozen over.

The penalties for officer illegalities should be higher, call it a penalty for "betrayal of public trust" or some such.

and pigs will soon fly

tbh it makes sense that I agree with this
it's more surprising that you agree with this



anyway if I'm not mistaken your courts tend to apply just the opposite right? (harsher sentences for commoners)

[aretood2]

Ladies and Gentlemen, Hell hath frozen over.

The penalties for officer illegalities should be higher, call it a penalty for "betrayal of public trust" or some such.

You could tag on an extra charge, that would work. Based on the level of the initial crime, the extra charge would add on to the eventual sentence if convicted.

anyway if I'm not mistaken your courts tend to apply just the opposite right? (harsher sentences for commoners)

The reason is to dissuade attacks on the police. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with that. Now I remember a court throwing out a "assaulting an officer" charge against a teenager who fought back after being viciously assaulted by an on duty police officer stating that the teenager had a reasonable assumption of harm, that the police officer went beyond his duties in the assault.

Cop killers should get harsher sentences mainly because if the police aren't safe, they can't keep others safe. If criminals can intimidate officers and their families, then that gives them leverage which will lead to harm to civilians.

[SoulReaver]

The reason is to dissuade attacks on the police. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with that. Now I remember a court throwing out a "assaulting an officer" charge against a teenager who fought back after being viciously assaulted by an on duty police officer stating that the teenager had a reasonable assumption of harm, that the police officer went beyond his duties in the assault.

what of the real culprit was he punished?

Cop killers should get harsher sentences mainly because if the police aren't safe, they can't keep others safe

in that case killer cops should also get harsher sentences because...they're supposed to keep others safe (if there's no "symmetry" then it's like saying that one class of the population is worth more than another)

besides jurisprudence has shown that their duty's not to the People anyway

[garhkal]

too bad the judges & the DAs tend not to see it that way eh?

it should be higher: aggravating factors (power = responsibility etc.)

Agreed. And as i said, they are not just breaking the law, but their Oath to uphold it.. So to me that's a Double whammy!

But then i also think it should damn well apply to congress/the POTUS spot since they also swear an oath to uphold the Constitution, so when they violate it, they should be drug into court.

[Annoyed]

Agreed. And as i said, they are not just breaking the law, but their Oath to uphold it.. So to me that's a Double whammy!

But then i also think it should damn well apply to congress/the POTUS spot since they also swear an oath to uphold the Constitution, so when they violate it, they should be drug into court.

We're going to need a much larger court system to handle the load.... And then there is the POTUS.

[aretood2]

Agreed. And as i said, they are not just breaking the law, but their Oath to uphold it.. So to me that's a Double whammy!

But then i also think it should damn well apply to congress/the POTUS spot since they also swear an oath to uphold the Constitution, so when they violate it, they should be drug into court.

Well then, That ought to be a very interesting sight. It's sure to get C-SPAN's rating up for once.

[jelgate]

CSPAN has ratings

[aretood2]

Since when do the facts matter?