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    This has become rather pedantic....
    By Nolamom
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      Originally posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
      God didn't build the Ark, he commanded Noah and gave him instructions to build it.

      For the sake of discussion (I only use KJV as a reference personally)
      And IF the story is true, who is to say what other assistance may have been provided? People here are making the argument that it wouldn't have been possible for him to build a vessel that large, and by his own efforts alone, I agree.

      But there are a number of references to the idea that with God's help, nothing is impossible. For example:

      Matthew 19:26 - But Jesus beheld [them], and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

      Comment


        Honestly this is a fruitless debate. A flood on the scale of the PLANET would absolutely have left obvious markings in the soil, hell scientists can easily tell how often a given area has been flooded thousands of years ago because of the sediments.

        It's not about the actual ark, if you ask me that's not the point. The point is the message of the story and how it changes the person that reads it.
        Spoiler:
        I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
          Honestly this is a fruitless debate. A flood on the scale of the PLANET would absolutely have left obvious markings in the soil, hell scientists can easily tell how often a given area has been flooded thousands of years ago because of the sediments.

          It's not about the actual ark, if you ask me that's not the point. The point is the message of the story and how it changes the person that reads it.
          Quite true. If a "God" is involved, whatever is needed to make something he wants to happen he will make happen. Or if he wants to hide his tracks, he can do that too. A God can do anything.

          I'm an agnostic, you know that. There may be something after this life, there may not be. Recent events have suggested to me that there may indeed be some sort of afterlife.

          Even if that is the case. that does not require that there be a god at all, let alone one of our earthbound religions actually being right on the money, which I highly doubt is the case.

          I just like pointing out the gaping logical hole in the thinking of folks who deny the possibility. A god can do anything, or it wouldn't be a god.
          Which leaves us knowing nothing.

          Comment


            No offense SG but I think people who look at the Bible with a microscope are wasting their time. Factually speaking the content isn't entirely true nor false, and I don't think it was intended to be taken literally.

            The Ark could be a metaphor for instance. I think it's silly to look at every dots to extract some hidden message. As GF pointed out the other day even if there was such a secret it would be forbidden by God himself to every single one of us.
            Spoiler:
            I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

            Comment


              Oh my... you folks have been busy!
              And this will probably be at least a 2-parter post...

              Well, I can't respond to all of the *mystery* questions yet...meaning the "evidence in the mud" of a flood---btw, it IS there.. Grand Canyon etched into shape from massive rivers forcefully pushing against the sediment, and similar canyons around the earth, including under the ocean. Also, the meteorites plunging into the earth (ocean---look for the *giant* semi-circular imprints especially along the American coastlines -- from Canada down to South America... News articles have mentioned about these areas as being *potential* catastrophic meteor hits).

              A *thinking* mind doesn't need other scientists to figure this stuff out--Just a basic knowledge of weather, flooding rain passages, and geological movements along the grinding levels of soil. Visiting Arizona's various mountain-scapes can be very educational, IF *you* pay attention to certain details. Some of the national parks provide helpful "scientific" data regarding how these geographical formations were believed to have occurred....that thing called *erosion* into certain mineral compositions, and add mud-flow paths into some of those formations, as well... hint, hint.

              In the meantime, here are a few *other* thoughts.

              Originally posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
              Nobody cares about the why because that would be implying your fable is true and looking into the purpose of this structure.
              Subject...? Noah's Ark?
              *You* and those thinking like you, call it a fable. You weren't there at the time, cannot even believe the data, when it IS presented to you either. What's wrong with with the purpose of this structure? Without reason, there IS NO rational reason to wedge a giant boat into that mountain. I've noted the *why's* already.

              Originally posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
              Adam & Eve
              Noah's Ark
              The Tree of Life and the 10 commandments

              All those main stories present in the Bible have been literally copied from Ancient Babylonian lore or other civilizations, it's just a rehearsal with a new twist.
              So you keep saying. However, *what if* ALL of those ANCIENT civilizations actually had the SAME knowledge at one point in time earlier in history, and later forgot about their origins of various details, and split off into the various religious groups that existed centuries later, when those other stories were "documented" by PEER-whoever claimed *experts* stated such and such, therefore "it must be...thus and so." So be it.

              What if---all of these centuries, you've all been told a bunch of lies, yet you'd still fiercely cling to your "documented" beliefs, because some PHD/master (scholar degree) *expert* stated it so. See how silly these discussions can get..? Flies right back into your own faces, and yet still nothing changes.

              Originally posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
              So no it's not at all impressive that a giant boat supposedly sat on top of a mountain, which could've been assembled piece by piece. You got to present other evidences than this, and I'm overly sceptical of all the "proof" and pseudo-science you brought so far SG. YT videos don't make you an expert.
              Videos only show what exists in the region. If you need to walk on the ground over to those places, go buy a ticket to those areas and check them out in person.
              Difference between me and most of the rest of (generic) *you* on here, is that I don't need to physically visit and touch the items in question to see whether or not something *might* be true. Costs too much to bother anyway.

              I DID scan the topography or geography (world-satellite) images of the area. Came up with my own conclusions, which is only a *possibility*. I later discovered, that they coincided with a few news articles on dino-meteorite wipe-out session.

              BTW, I thought you (Chaka-Z0) were curious enough to discover what my thoughts were on the dinosaurs. See quote below...

              Originally posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
              I'm honestly curious as to what is their/her explanation for dinosaur fossils.
              How can I honestly answer when you've already denounced my "evidence" shown in the videos. If you *really* looked at that "Noah's Ark" mountain well enough, you'd see a mudslide effect in the ground, which surrounds the "boat". I won't explain until I get my google map data up. I wrote some ideas on this months ago, but need to rewrite it for here. It also comes with part of the meteor "theory" data package.
              But, I've gotten the impression that even if (generic) *you* Do look at the map, *you* still won't accept the "flood" as a possibility... there was more than just the map. I need to dig out my info. Will combine it later, if I get time.

              No time now. Maybe later... or maybe never. hmmmm. Most of you posting on this topic, won't accept it even when the other data provides a huge ??? mark over the areas in question.

              End of Part 1 (of 2 parts)

              Comment


                Continued... Part 2 of 2....

                Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
                SGAlisa, the "why" question is beyond the scope of this conversation.

                A "why" question in proper archaeology, can only be answered if there's writing involved, dating to or a little after the same period in time in which the people state their reasons, or depict it or draw it. If there's no written evidence of any kind, the "why" simply cannot be answered.

                Archaeological evidence as to why people do what they do, is not an easy feat to discover, unless they told us why (and even then, the story can be skewed or misinterpreted). And if they didn't bother, we can only guess to their true reasons.
                So, (generic) *you* expect or demand "written" details behind these events happening, AND already have it WRITTEN in the Judaeo-Christian Bible, but you reject that because it wasn't pre-approved by your scientific PEER groups. Thus, it is discarded.

                Well... what if the BIBLE was going to end up being the ONLY source for written, detailed data on these sorts of events? Again, you dismiss and discard it, because it came from a "religious" sourced document(s). Thus, it is meaningless.

                And *what if* some of those questionable event issues DID have *other* written evidence at some point in earth's historic timeline, but the info was destroyed during some of the burning seiges in history? Therefore, You will never know the truth, if such materials did exist. So, *you* just dismiss it, because it doesn't exist now, and therefore "claim" that it probably NEVER did.


                Originally posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
                You got to present other evidences than this, and I'm overly sceptical of all the "proof" and pseudo-science you brought so far SG. YT videos don't make you an expert.

                Originally posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
                You also don't seem to understand the scientific methodology nor what is considered proper evidences and peer reviewed research.
                Originally posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
                No one CARES what they BELIEVE.
                . . .
                Simple fact is, you cannot back up your claims. I have no doubt you believe in them, but you cannot PROVE them, and that's the basis of science.
                in reply to all of the above---
                * I don't care about the credentials of "science" if it is missing other data details. Modern "scholars" only look at what is available NOW to their eyes and ears. If something existed earlier in time, and has since been destroyed in some massive bon-fire parties, it's lost forever... except from word of mouth. ...which you all label as "fiction" or "legend".

                Even if the street signs and towns exist now with finely chiseled or drilled anchor stones in the valley...you won't believe the "legend" surrounding those places, because it doesn't agree with your "scholarly" studies. Honestly, if we all decided to dismiss such questionable items/places, etc, then no one would learn anything ever again. It'd be totally pointless. Look at how TPTB are changing USA history from the 1800's and even 1700's. Whatever is in school nowadays, is certainly NOT the stuff I was taught in the 1970's history classes.

                * WHAT and HOW exactly MUST something be processed, in order to be deemed worthy enough for "proper" evidence?

                Originally posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
                Noah simply could not build an aircraft carrier sized ship on his own, the bible itself says people rejected helping him and the logistics of building such a structure are beyond a single person, even today.
                You are asking people to accept that *A PERSON* in the pre-historic age can do more than modern engineers.
                Even with God's blueprint, it is beyond the ability of a single person, or their lifetime.
                How old are you (meaning--most of the people in this forum)..? Noah lived to be 950 years with 500 of those years prior to the flood. So, how many children did Noah *actually* have? WE DON'T KNOW. We only know of his 3 sons who entered the Ark with their wives, because those are the only important persons the Bible scriptures kept in its "recorded, written data" for our future earth historians and the curious-minded, who needed to know about (their more significant genealogies/data thereof).

                So, if the townspeople didn't accept Noah, he could have easily recruited a bunch of people, for the right pay wages, to make items necessary for the boat, while he was designing and building it. Or perhaps he had more children, who lived but died at younger ages than his 3 sons who actually DID enter the ark... Thus, if so, then for a guy who lived beyond 400 years, certainly he had many days added to his life where he may have *fathered* a bunch of kids...and his wife was busy having birthed and raised them...

                So, if TRUE, then how many children and grandkids, great-grandkids (etc.) did he *really* have, who might not have ever entered the Ark (maybe they died or moved far away) yet some or many of them may have helped in gathering the some of the major materials, constructing, cutting, gluing, etc. for the Ark, and left the area (peer pressure? or other *issues*) once their work load was finished...? It may be pure speculation, but certainly a reasonable one at that.

                Originally posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
                It's not even half the size of naval vessels we had 100 years ago. If Noah's ark was real, it was big, but hardly big enough to do what it claims to have done, and that's simple mathematics.
                It's sort of pointless to mention this, but visiting the "Ark Encounter" in Kentucky (USA), which is a replica *idea* in physical form of Noah's Ark, certainly puts some new POVs towards how Noah could have possibly lived and survived, etc. A 515 foot long boat with 3 full floors of exhibits to walk thru and view... there was wayyyyyy too much detail in those exhibits to actually READ everything in one visit. But the info presents possibilities into how all of this could have been accomplished. Sure it may be pure speculation, but it was worth investigating what could have actually happened.

                I did mention that I was the ONE person who didn't want to go.. didn't feel I needed to.. thus, everyone else got upset AT me for NOT wanting to go... But I went anyway, and at the ultimate end of the day's venture, I was actually more impressed than I expected I'd be. I'm glad I went.

                The typical naysayers (deliberately disgruntled agitators) commenting and claiming they had attended the replica Kentucky "Noah's Ark" site, made all sorts of complaints, par usual. So, I am *not* surprised from the level of criticism the Ark Encounter has received, since it opened.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by SGalisa View Post
                  Oh my... you folks have been busy!
                  Just how you like it eh?

                  btw, it IS there.. Grand Canyon etched into shape from massive rivers forcefully pushing against the sediment, and similar canyons around the earth, including under the ocean. Also, the meteorites plunging into the earth (ocean---look for the *giant* semi-circular imprints especially along the American coastlines -- from Canada down to South America... News articles have mentioned about these areas as being *potential* catastrophic meteor hits).
                  No

                  A *thinking* mind doesn't need other scientists to figure this stuff out--Just a basic knowledge of weather, flooding rain passages, and geological movements along the grinding levels of soil. Visiting Arizona's various mountain-scapes can be very educational, IF *you* pay attention to certain details. Some of the national parks provide helpful "scientific" data regarding how these geographical formations were believed to have occurred....that thing called *erosion* into certain mineral compositions, and add mud-flow paths into some of those formations, as well... hint, hint.
                  Okay, no expertise required. I want you right here, right now, to tell me the estimated current, inclination and course of the Mississippi River 15 years from now. Really, anybody knowledgeable in that field should be able to answer this riddle in less than a day. Are you able to?

                  Subject...? Noah's Ark?
                  *You* and those thinking like you, call it a fable. You weren't there at the time, cannot even believe the data, when it IS presented to you either.
                  What data? There is no data, and that's precisely my objection.

                  So you keep saying. However, *what if* ALL of those ANCIENT civilizations actually had the SAME knowledge at one point in time earlier in history, and later forgot about their origins of various details, and split off into the various religious groups that existed centuries later, when those other stories were "documented" by PEER-whoever claimed *experts* stated such and such, therefore "it must be...thus and so." So be it.
                  Ancient civilizations were not dumb or primitive, that's what I believe. We all know that guy, you know the guy that will fix your lawnmower or your computer, you know, that guy. That guy usually never went to university or college and might not even have finished high school. But, that guy is good in what he does. Why? Perhaps intelligence has more to do with efficiency/creativity with the materials available than having the education or else.

                  What if---all of these centuries, you've all been told a bunch of lies, yet you'd still fiercely cling to your "documented" beliefs, because some PHD/master (scholar degree) *expert* stated it so. See how silly these discussions can get..? Flies right back into your own faces, and yet still nothing changes.
                  Provide proof to dismiss or at the very least challenge these ''lies''. Until then, I'll consider all of the above as complete horse manure.

                  Videos only show what exists in the region. If you need to walk on the ground over to those places, go buy a ticket to those areas and check them out in person.
                  Difference between me and most of the rest of (generic) *you* on here, is that I don't need to physically visit and touch the items in question to see whether or not something *might* be true. Costs too much to bother anyway.
                  You say that yet you've previously confessed watching videos for days. If you took days to watch these videos, you could've easily taken a day or two to visit the actual spot yourself.

                  But, I've gotten the impression that even if (generic) *you* Do look at the map, *you* still won't accept the "flood" as a possibility... there was more than just the map. I need to dig out my info. Will combine it later, if I get time.
                  And I've gotten the impression that you have no clue what the word evidence means. Your beliefs are your own, I respect that. Evidences are NOT. They are concrete, peer-revieweable evidences and factual data that cannot be denied. It is what we see and that's what I choose to believe in.
                  Spoiler:
                  I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Annoyed View Post
                    I just like pointing out the gaping logical hole in the thinking of folks who deny the possibility. A god can do anything, or it wouldn't be a god.
                    Which leaves us knowing nothing.
                    You assume everyone believes in an all powerful being, high in the sky, capable of building something.

                    I don't believe in any god or goddess, or the existence of a magical creature in the sky. I believe in people and that sometimes they can be good.

                    I deal in facts and evidence that can be scientifically checked, and rechecked by an independant source. Peer reviewed.

                    It's like I said several posts earlier... I don't care if you're looking for the lost city of Atlantis, or the great library of Alexandria, or heck... Noah's Ark. If you don't follow the archaeological methodology, you're not gonna find much sympathy in the community.

                    Also, quite like Ockham's Razor:

                    "A principle from philosophy. Suppose there exist two explanations for an occurrence. In this case the one that requires the least speculation is usually correct. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation."

                    Originally posted by SGalisa View Post
                    So, (generic) *you* expect or demand "written" details behind these events happening, AND already have it WRITTEN in the Judaeo-Christian Bible, but you reject that because it wasn't pre-approved by your scientific PEER groups. Thus, it is discarded.
                    Must have missed the article I posted about the "possible location of King David's city of refuge"...

                    Let me put it this way, plenty of references made to old Assyrian/Babylonian rulers in the old testament have actual archaeological evidence in the record of history/archaeology/geology (Noah's ark doesn't).

                    Just look at all the archaeological findings in Mesopotamia. (note: my sister's an Assyriologist, and does not dismiss the importance of the old testament as part of the giant puzzle as to piecing together the ancient mesopotamian timeline of events)

                    Originally posted by SGalisa View Post
                    Well... what if the BIBLE was going to end up being the ONLY source for written, detailed data on these sorts of events?
                    If it were, we would still have to look at the archaeological/geological/historical evidence presented to us.

                    When people leave no writing behind, the only evidence we have is what we see right in front of us. An example of the top of my head are the Pictish tribes in Scotland. They left no discernable writing behind, only the signs they marked on standing stones (and they are magnificent, mind you). Nobody knows what they mean, so we can only guess... but in the meantime, we can learn about them through archaeological evidence.

                    A brief history of the ancient Pict Kingdoms of Scotland

                    Originally posted by SGalisa View Post
                    Again, you dismiss and discard it, because it came from a "religious" sourced document(s). Thus, it is meaningless.
                    I dismiss and discard because there's no actual "evidence" which survives a peer review (any and all) to proof the ark is real.

                    I think I've mentioned this somewhere here, but in case I haven't, I studied archaeology for 2 years at university. It was literally imprinted on our collective brains, in our methodology of archaeology course that ONE PIECE OF EVIDENCE IS basically EQUAL TO NO PIECE OF EVIDENCE.

                    Originally posted by SGalisa View Post
                    And *what if* some of those questionable event issues DID have *other* written evidence at some point in earth's historic timeline, but the info was destroyed during some of the burning seiges in history?
                    There would probably be written evidence, or archaeological evidence of that fire (definitely geological evidence in the layers of the earth) which could be dated and therefore confirm the existence of a "library". I does not proof there were other records, unless the fire was recorded in a writing. I mean, a people loosing important documents would certainly have written about it in later records.

                    The great fire of Rome comes to mind, July 19, 64 AD. Tacitus [1] wrote about it in his annals (=> the part about the fire starts at 'chapter' 38 so you'll have to scroll down a bit).

                    [1] Publius Cornelius Tacitus was a senator and a historian of the Roman Empire. Tacitus is considered to be one of the greatest Roman historians. Born: 56 AD, Gallia Narbonensis / Died: 120 AD, Roman Empire

                    Originally posted by SGalisa View Post
                    Therefore, You will never know the truth, if such materials did exist. So, *you* just dismiss it, because it doesn't exist now, and therefore "claim" that it probably NEVER did.
                    Lady, when several scientific sources pretty much debunk every claim ... it's hard to believe the original claim had merit at all.

                    Originally posted by SGalisa View Post
                    I don't care about the credentials of "science" if it is missing other data details. Modern "scholars" only look at what is available NOW to their eyes and ears. If something existed earlier in time, and has since been destroyed in some massive bon-fire parties, it's lost forever... except from word of mouth. ...which you all label as "fiction" or "legend".
                    Yeah no... not how it works -- see Tacitus.

                    Originally posted by SGalisa View Post
                    Even if the street signs and towns exist now with finely chiseled or drilled anchor stones in the valley...you won't believe the "legend" surrounding those places, because it doesn't agree with your "scholarly" studies.
                    Legend
                    Is a loanword from Old French that entered English usage circa 1340. The Old French noun legende derives from the Medieval Latin legenda. In its early English-language usage, the word indicated a narrative of an event. The word legendary was originally a noun (introduced in the 1510s) meaning a collection or corpus of legends. This word changed to legendry, and legendary became the adjectival form.

                    By 1613, English-speaking Protestants began to use the word when they wished to imply that an event (especially the story of any saint not acknowledged in John Foxe's Actes and Monuments) was fictitious. Thus, legend gained its modern connotations of "undocumented" and "spurious", which distinguish it from the meaning of chronicle.

                    Christian legenda
                    In the narrow Christian sense, legenda ("things to be read [on a certain day, in church]") were hagiographical accounts, often collected in a legendary. Because saints' lives are often included in many miracle stories, legend, in a wider sense, came to refer to any story that is set in a historical context but that contains supernatural, divine or fantastic elements.

                    Examples of legends are Ali Baba, the Fountain of Youth, Kraken, and the Loch Ness Monster. Bigfoot is also a largely mentioned legend in mountain regions. Some legends are stories about real people; others are not. Robin Hood for example might have been real but most of the stories about him are definitely fiction.

                    And boy, have they been throwing money at sonar-research at the famous Loch Ness in Scotland. Always coming up empty, and if there's one legend I had hoped to be true, it's definitely Nessie's -- dammit.

                    Originally posted by SGalisa View Post
                    Honestly, if we all decided to dismiss such questionable items/places, etc, then no one would learn anything ever again. It'd be totally pointless. Look at how TPTB are changing USA history from the 1800's and even 1700's. Whatever is in school nowadays, is certainly NOT the stuff I was taught in the 1970's history classes.
                    See the constant changing of the human family tree...

                    Originally posted by SGalisa View Post
                    Noah lived to be 950 years with 500 of those years prior to the flood.
                    So did Nicolas Flamel... although I'm fairly certain he died well before turning 100 years old.

                    Born: 1340, Pontoise, France
                    Died: March 22, 1418, Paris, France (at 78)
                    Place of burial: Saint-Jacques Tower, Paris, France

                    There's no scientific proof to support that claim. There is scientific proof that people during the Bronze/Iron Age were lucky if they made it 70 years old, which not many were lucky enough for to begin with. It was quite a feat to survive childhood so once passed 5 years old you'd be relatively speaking okay to make it to to the average age of 30-40 years old before dying.

                    And that's not counting disease or war cause that generally decimated an entire tribe out of existence.

                    Originally posted by SGalisa View Post
                    It's sort of pointless to mention this, but visiting the "Ark Encounter" in Kentucky (USA), which is a replica *idea* in physical form of Noah's Ark...
                    Like every reconstruction of dead people where they use the skull to rebuild what they might have looked like. Without knowing the color of their skin, their eyes, their hair, existence of scars... they're just ideas of what they might have looked like.
                    Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum
                    Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
                      You assume everyone believes in an all powerful being, high in the sky, capable of building something.

                      I don't believe in any god or goddess, or the existence of a magical creature in the sky. I believe in people and that sometimes they can be good.

                      I deal in facts and evidence that can be scientifically checked, and rechecked by an independant source. Peer reviewed.
                      Not true. You forget that I myself am an agnostic. While I don't deny the possible existence of a "God", I don't say that one exists, either. I simply don't know either way.

                      And "peer review" has been rendered useless these days. What good is it if all the peers have been drinking the same kool-aid, as those making a claim, as is the situation with the enviros these days?

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
                        You assume everyone believes in an all powerful being, high in the sky, capable of building something.

                        I don't believe in any god or goddess, or the existence of a magical creature in the sky. I believe in people and that sometimes they can be good.

                        I deal in facts and evidence that can be scientifically checked, and rechecked by an independant source. Peer reviewed.

                        Originally posted by Annoyed View Post
                        Not true. You forget that I myself am an agnostic. While I don't deny the possible existence of a "God", I don't say that one exists, either. I simply don't know either way.

                        And "peer review" has been rendered useless these days. What good is it if all the peers have been drinking the same kool-aid, as those making a claim, as is the situation with the enviros these days?
                        Oh, I totally agree with Annoyed's POV. Being that I work in a job field that deals directly with compliance of the environmental regulations, etc., I see the reactions first hand.
                        Saw a worker (who trains with this environmental stuff) go nearly frantic BECAUSE the "world is ending"... the Oceans are rising and the water in the southern USA is getting too hot for the fishes... RED Tide algae is killing off the good marine life in there. The Storms are getting worse...

                        I hear the whole NINE yards, plus, with this stuff. It either makes (generic) *you* sympathetic to the clarion call, or numbs *you* from the constant ranting. And, TPTB (whom this other person yelling off her terrified "Al Gore" type rants is), still won't listen to reason and look into the world's climates possibly (and literally) shifting into new locations all over the entire globe. GREENLAND went thru this type of warmer/HOT climate change, and so did Antarctica. So, it happens again --- like NOW. But almost the whole world panics.

                        In the meantime, those same PTB could do something positive to help the earth, but at the same time, NOT suffocate the rest of us into another DARK AGE of living conditions----which ZERO emissions goal is where they SEEK--- good and noble goals for sure... but instead, they go about by enforcing --GREEN NEW DEAL-- living situations where *they* (TPTB) think in their "scholarly" wisdom are helping everyone AND the planet, when they are virtually about to plunge us into a darkness that will only cause mankind to nearly destroy each other and at the same time, worsen our environmental situations for those very (wildlife) creatures TPTB claim to *want* to protect.

                        I could add that the Bible predicted and NOTED that these HOTTER days were coming "in the last days" of the age before Messiah comes to rescue whoever is left alive, and restore the earth's planet to a proper balance, because the humans prior to that event FAILED. So, we *may* actually be seeing these events occurring before our very own eyes...

                        ...hint, hint!!!

                        Comment


                          Temporary TiME-out...btw...

                          Next time someone *wishes* for me to shut-up or just go away, really, I don't need some *Satanic* force pushing me OFF of here. I can simply stop posting of my own free will and walk away... and some of *you* folks here will NEVER know what really happened (or *why*... not *how*). ...
                          Oh, and (please) stop wishing for *someone* to knock some "sense" into me... Steel metal hurts.


                          Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
                          You assume everyone believes in an all powerful being, high in the sky, capable of building something.

                          I don't believe in any god or goddess, or the existence of a magical creature in the sky. I believe in people and that sometimes they can be good.

                          I deal in facts and evidence that can be scientifically checked, and rechecked by an independant source. Peer reviewed.
                          Ooooo! What an open door of opportunity! AND I have to say that what I am about to reveal----this *is* how God works sometimes in HIS weird, mysterious ways that go *beyond* our human comprehension (Romans 8:28-29)... well, just one of the many, MANY examples I have actually lived thru to see life exist this way. ..SERIOUSLY.. I'm amazed if I can type straight now, because I can't see well without my glasses... as I am trying to currently heal from a nasty accident that could have become LIFE-threatening for me.

                          (The following incident occurred this weekend, and I have pictures I've already sent out
                          to those who *need to know* to PROVE it.)

                          Since my last posts above, I was doing volunteer work at a children's event next to a multi-tracked train station. Yeah, well... plans on where I was *supposed to be* changed by a person in authority there, who asked me to fill-in for her first ride out. So, short time later, something else went wrong with the credit card machine, and I tried to get help on what to do with it---because no one else was around to help; and we were leaving soon with passengers!! I write this sarcastically, because of how some of you people here think that angels and a Divine persona "GOD" doNOT exist.

                          ---TIME was of the utmost, urgent essence in my situation.---
                          Well, let me say that I BELIEVE they (angels AND an *almighty* God) do EXIST... because even tho I made a bad choice in what direction I took to walk, and the angels didn't rescue me from falling "splat!!!" flat on my face between some train tracks (onto the wooden slats b/t the steel rails), and everyone nearby went into panic mode -- I am convinced events that happened a few hours later worked out for the best, even tho at the time of my initial fall, life looked a bit bleak and clumsy for me".

                          So, after having the blood cleaned off my face, and my head iced, I got clearance to go work where I was supposed to originally be at a different location (NOT on a train!). After lunch, I decided not to go into the port-a-potty where it sat in the hot sun, so I ventured up to the main office building with cooling a/c for my P-break. A young volunteer girl came into that same office place, too. She said she was sent there to cool off from possible heat exhaustion. So, as I was talking with her, I checked her for signs of fever, etc. She seemed lethargic, her speech slowed down, and I noticed her hands trembling.

                          So, knowing I'd be leaving her alone in the room, I advised her how to rest and to try to remember --if she could-- to stay hydrated. Then, her entire arm began shaking. She didn't know she was shaking (and seemed more "out of it" then). So, I said I was going to get someone to check in on her and left. I promptly found some people in higher authority, told them about the girl going into *shakes*... and they immediately went in to check on her. Later, I heard she was immediately sent to the hospital ER, so I think if I hadn't seen her when I did, that her condition might have gotten worse with her passing out and potentially found much later than me being right in that room when I was.

                          My health problems in those moments seemed less urgent than hers. So, I am very thankful how the "God" I firmly believe in, moved me into that place at that specific time. It may have saved the other girl from going totally unconscious. Falling on the (active) rail tracks may have been the necessary event (catalyst) to get me into that room with that girl; but at least I didn't lose my vision or suffer more than just a few, giant bruising lumps and cuts here and there. Plus, tho my knees also hurt, there was no broken skin. As for the rail tracks, there were plenty of people who were a few hundred yards away, who saw me fall and could have stopped the *active* train on that rail-line from running me over into a pancake.

                          Yes, I can smile about this now, because of the other situation that occurred that seemed to be FAR more important than my silly fall. If I had walked at a 90 degree angle to the tracks, than diagonally to cut my walking distance shorted, my stupid foot might not have ever happened, thus, I would have never have tripped on the steel rail. Plus, I did have a softer landing than the steel rails that sat on both sides of my fall..!

                          So, I am very thankful for that... with only a few, *ugly* injuries resulting. Yeah, it HURT something awful at the time, and it also scratched up my glasses (yet miraculously didn't BREAK them!!!). Falling "there" also embarrassed me to no end, but it made me think... and be thankful that I didn't end up with a chronic brain injury hospitalizing me into ICU.


                          No... God didn't stop my head-first *splat* fall, but HE let me move into a spot that lessened the more serious degree(s) of my injuries... soft cushion of leaves and dirt under my knees (just like a child falling down and skinning his/her knees, etc), even tho my face hit the wooden slat harder. (AND I am deliberately writing this, so it can be *imagined* as it happened. I've endured a few other *crazy* incidents involving other horrid/steel metal encounters too, each from my own clumsiness, which have been documented as part of my official "health record(s)".)

                          Therefore... I don't CARE what the rest of *you* folks think about this situation. I am NOT messing around with these words or *what* happened. It COULD HAVE BEEN FAR WORSE, and *that* is what makes the situations that occurred a miracle ... GOD and the angels are my witnesses, so are a bunch of very concerned rail-train personnel..! LOL. That includes other (whack!) wacky situations, too. *ugh*

                          I'd also add, THIS is why TPTB *in authority* TELL and advise parents and guardians to keep themselves AND *especially* the younger ones with them to PLEASE STAY OFF the Rail Tracks. I was pre-approved for going that route, b/c the 1st train just left, and I needed to get help ASAP on the other (2nd) train that was on the other, nearby track. All protocol measures worked fine getting to Point A (destination). Point B, was a totally different story ---- It just so happened that my foot got caught under the *one* spot where the fire hose usually goes for the coal-steam train, which is now temporarily "out of service" (it broke down last year). And thus, my bigfoot, clumsy feet "just happened" to find that deeper hole, out of the entire rest of the rail track being on higher ground. Leave it to me -- to find that ONE bad footing spot, without even looking for it. My focus was on my mental goal for electronics assistance... ahead to get help, NOT on where my physical feet were walking.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by SGalisa View Post
                            Temporary TiME-out...btw...

                            Next time someone *wishes* for me to shut-up or just go away, really, I don't need some *Satanic* force pushing me OFF of here. I can simply stop posting of my own free will and walk away... and some of *you* folks here will NEVER know what really happened (or *why*... not *how*). ...
                            Oh, and (please) stop wishing for *someone* to knock some "sense" into me... Steel metal hurts.
                            Spoiler:
                            I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

                            Comment


                              I get the feeling that the concept of "faith" is lost here. You can't know, not in the sense that FH talks about. But faith requires certainty because it is not simple belief, as in opinion. I believe that the stories of Atlantis have their genesis in a Minoan city on the Island of Thera. It's an opinion, a guess based on limited evidence of which there is a lack of certainty.

                              Faith, in the religious sense, is certainty without evidence, and certainty in things that are beyond what one can see. There may be some limited evidence to back it up, there is some logic behind it, but for it to be true faith it can't be certainty based on evidence but certainty based on something else. It's a spiritual concept. The act of beliefing with certainty isn't something to be explained or taught, it's something to be experienced for one's self and only if you are open to it.

                              Some people aren't open to it, so they'll never have it unless they let go of what holds them back. To have faith, true faith, is to let go of what's in front of you and embrace things beyond the veil of perceptible reality.

                              Believing in some conspiracy theory and youtube videos is not spiritual faith, it's folly. It's a negation of spiritual faith and it can lead to fanaticism. It basically is a confession of a lack of faith that requires you to latch on to "evidence" in order to continue to believe in God or whatever. It leads to wanting the most corporeal, literal, and present interpretation of all things...and above all, the wanting of answers to all questions instead of the pursuit of the faith itself. This is why you have people falling for things like prosperity gospel and an idolatarized notion of patriotism/nationalism. Because they attach their faith to these visible human institutions and personal wealth. It's this type of thing that has led to the disdain of the poor, fear of the foreigner, and indifference of the vulnerable (widdows, and orphans). It's what the bible rails against. Just read chapter 2 of the book of James. There he calls out ths preference for the rich, here's a line that will tickle socialist feathers "But you have dishonored the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court?"-James 2:6. It's the same chapter that talks about faith as well.

                              Faith is belief with certainty as a spiritual action that is mean to be manifested in actual actions, not more belief. "What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?...In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead"- James 2:14, 17 No where in James 2 does it talk about evidence. Nowhere does it talk about it in Hebrews 11 which is another major chapter on faith. Faith is all about action. Dead faith is all about wanting answers and reasons and knowing everything for a false sense of control.

                              This is why I post here because I think it's important to ground any eschatological expectations to the idea of what faith is. So what actions is all of this mean to produce? Fealty to God? But wouldn't our inevitable death do the same? If I am to day two years from now, what good or harm does it do me if the world were to end twenty years from now? All of this study would serve no purpose of action. But if the interpretation is viable for anyone at any time, then it serves a purpose.

                              So yes, if you tell me that the Ark of the Covenant or Noah's Ark have been found, then I need actual evidence, proof. Their presence today is not an article of faith. If a city of King David is found, I will go with what the evidence says, for that's not an article of faith. But if the bible says that king David killed Goliath with a sling, then that is an article of faith because it is an example of faith becoming action. I need no evidence for it. I can see evidence that philistines existed, that Hebrews also were present etc...and my faith leads me to believe that their may be more evidence to find but it is of little use to me.

                              By faith, the ancients did the impossible, and it is by faith that the Ark was made before the flood and Noah had all the kinds of animals necessary on it. That was an action born out of faith, not a practical possible doable thing, it was an act of faith. Which is why I find it ridiculous when people go on the path of "Well...how did they feed the animals"? Um....if that's your major hang up then I wonder why you aren't hung up on the whole "And God said _____" thing.....

                              In the end, faith isn't because of evidence or its lack thereof. To believe that God created man you don't need to be ignorant of the theory of Evolution, how it works, the evidence involved because it isn't that at all. It's a spiritual thing. If you don't have it, you can't understand it. Some people are offended by faith, they can't stand it because they can't understand it. And it's human nature to think ill of that of which one can't understand, it's an animal instinct. Well at least that's the best reason I can think of.

                              So yes, to say X has been found, then you need actual evidence. You are making an actual claim of the here and now. If it is an article of faith, then it's faith you require. But one doesn't need faith to know of a boat...only evidence. And that's what is lacking in this far out claims of boats and arks and blood and chromosomes.

                              And I reiterate. If Jesus only had 23 Chromosomes, then he is not human and scripture is invalidated. No human can exist with 23 chromosomes. This is an article of faith...and a pretty big one. Honestly, people who don't know much about how genetics work would fall for this. But if you did realize just how wrong the claim of chromosomes is, then you'd have no choice but to discount this claim wholesale.
                              By Nolamom
                              sigpic


                              Comment


                                Chaka-Z0, I'm not going to quote that *ugly face* image of George Soros (he's got warts on his face!). His surprised look of "joy" (??) and laugh all you (and anyone else here) want. Someday, you may have to answer for that laughter at someone else's pain ...or general thoughts... just saying...

                                BTW, I stubbed one of my little toes overnight, too, so it's now a deep purple. Iced it maybe a bit too late. Bumping into regular house furniture hurts too.. but not as bad as a steel train rail.


                                aretood2... I do enjoy your posting in this topic, even tho I might disagree with your POV.

                                Plus, it provides a balance of seeing another side of this universe's *thought* spectrum. So, keep on posting. Maybe someday in the future, the Truth of our past will be revealed 100% *with* those missing pieces of "evidence" (generic) you all seek... tho, those *actual* answers might be found in the next realm of life's reality, and not in the here and now, as *you* live and breathe it.

                                BTW, I personally still disagree with your 23 chromosome issue about Jesus. Human mom 23 chromosomes, Spirit dad (ONE chromosome only needed to identify Jesus' gender). Human and Spirit in nature. Maybe what the Churches have been teaching as their interpretation of what a "human" is -- was wrong... we are ALL part Spirit too. But not identified in gender by that Spirit.

                                Which... brings me to my next question. Please see next post.

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