The Political Discussion Thread

[SGalisa]

Because Europe and the US are partically to blame for what's happening right now. We meddled in the affairs of the Middle East and this is the result.

The Islamic State was created directly after the USA gov't granted a prisoner swap of 5 Taliban militants for one American named Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl. One of the 5 is now the self-proclaimed leader of the Islamic State (I.S., ISIL or ISIS).

Since then, NO ONE country has wiped out the entire I.S., but allowed them to grow to the degree and geographical locations they now exist in. Not to also mention the Boko Haram, who have pledge allegiance with the I.S., making the group that much larger and widespread.

Then perhaps, the US should stop meddling in other people's affairs as well... instead of playing police of the world.

Then please tell the rest of the world to stop begging, pleading or demanding for the US to go rescue this one and that one -- because that's all we've heard since I grew up in the 1960's. In the beginning it was the Vietnam wars... South American jungles, Panama Canal rescues, later the Middle East (1991), and it hasn't stopped ever since.

Of course, it didn't help when GWBush jr. decided to jump into Iraq, much to the chargrin of the rest of us American folks. Within 3 short weeks after September 11, 2001, the world stopped being united against the tragedy of the destruction of the WTC in NYC, NY, because GWBush decided to attack Iraq instead of locating the sources of the remaining living ones who destroyed the World Trade towers to begin with.

Problem is that there were too many naive Americans so generously willing to help the rest of the world out in 2001, and now the USA is considered the "BAD guys". It's not the general public residents of the USA that went in, but TPTB who sent our guys/gals into that region. The rest of us are just a bunch of statistical numbers . . . that's all. We pay our taxes, or get fined, etc., and have no control over who is abusing where all that money actually goes -- ending up for the good or for bad.

What ever happened to American optimism? That's really what has made this a great country, and it continues to be a great country despite what some angry people might think. I see nothing but opportunities, there is certainly more space for a new fresh batch of Americans.

American optimism went down the drain the moment TPTB started messing with the generosity of its USA taxpayers and certain charity donations. It really went downhill after our (the USA people) relatives got dragged into a war with Iraq as being declared as the world's #1 enemy from former president GWBush. It still hasn't recovered ever since then. Only gotten worse with internal rioting, and "occupy *this* or *that*.."

I America should tell the next few nations that ask for help to go jump in a creek. Seriously the world asks too much of you guys.

Thank you! Many Americans feel the same way -- as in "the world asks too much of you guys". It (the world) does.
Doesn't help that certain PTB don't know where the financial and emotional boundary lines are for those who generously give and give and give. There are limits to such giving -- most of us do not have endless pockets. Bottomless pockets maybe, because the bottom was ripped out a few years ago. Life for a good portion of those who could give (in little amounts from the little they had) in the past, has been spiraling downhill ever since. Some of us are still trying to help out our local food banks. But there's only so much that can be given by those folks.

There are also problems amongst people fresh out of schools and colleges, because they simply cannot live as their grandparents could back in the mid-to-late 1900's. Some young folks have moved back in with mom or dad, or some relative, because they simply cannot afford to pay rent or buy a home (some homes in foreclosure require handyman's special financial support, too; so that doesn't help when one room of 5 other rooms --also requiring fixing-- might cost $10,000.00 US dollars to fix and there's no money to fix it with either. Additionally on the health side, many Americans are on psychotropic or various pain meds, too, which complicates other issues.

If you're not American, this may be rather an unwise wish to voice.

It's okay. It's nice to see that *someone* out there (even if it's only one person) cares enough to notice what is happening to this side of the planet.

[SGalisa]

Ever hear the phrase "jobless recovery"? The vast majority of those who are doing well in this so called recovery are those who are well to do already.

Exactly.
The folks who used to have jobs that have some semblance of integrity in paying their bills, are working 2 or more part time jobs -- mostly without (health) benefits, unless it comes directly out of their own pockets.

I think our nation is maxed out in many places as far as people in their 50's and 60's suffering from job layoffs or companies "going out of business". Once a person reaches that age group, it becomes difficult to survive when the salary earned thus far is suddenly gonzo, and only part time jobs are available -- but mostly to the stronger and healthier persons rather than someone who once looked forward to retirement, only to have it or their (former) 401K plans shattered into nothing.

I know mostly everyone in my own family/relatives in that situation, and some already drive 2 hours or more round trip just to work where they are at, and being there isn't even stable enough to trust that it will be there long enough, even within the next ten years. If such and such a company does last that long, how much can that person trust that the proverbial (financial) rug won't be pulled out at any moment, because the employer does not have enough money to keep afloat. Been thru that before. It gets very discouraging after hoping and hoping, and getting shafted when least expected.

I've seen a few office jobs. Several for truck drivers with advertised benefits of some sort. Vacancies in schools and a police department or two. Construction jobs. And yes, plenty of food service and grocery jobs, but some of those do pay above the minimum wage. It's not a staggering butt load where thousands and thousands of vacancies are available...mainly because economics doesn't work that way. But what I have seen is in my county and a neighboring county....of which I haven't even seen most of. That's when I'm not even looking for work. And yes, the job market if very competitive in the favor of employers right now. But that is how recoveries work.

Also depends on what part of the country/city a person lives in. Cities are ruthless and cheasy (cheap pay scale) companies are not only competitive, but the grass is no greener in the city than in the more suburban/rural areas. Been there, know that. Not fun to experience at all. If (generic) you don't have an inside "know someone" in the field, etc., your struggle will be ten to a thousand times greater in that *awesome* job search.


It also doesn't help looking for jobs in other states, when a person has to sell their home for dirt cheap, just to move out in a fast sell (even in an *as is* sell). There isn't enough money from that so-called fast sell to fall back on when (generic) your next salary is maybe one half or one third of what it was before (say $50,000 to $70,000 USA $ was the original salary range).

[jelgate]

I honestly see the opposite where young people struggle to get good jobs because its saturated with the older people who have the experience employers ask for

[SGalisa]

I honestly see the opposite where young people struggle to get good jobs because its saturated with the older people who have the experience employers ask for

Problem with that is from people who have a ton of major health issues -- diabetes (whether or not it is controlled and monitored or not), heart surgery or other serious heart conditions being monitored, high blood pressure, deteriorating eyesight, disintegrating cartilage causing chronic back and/or knee problems, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, recovering cancer, etc. That's just a few items to mention. New prospective employers would be more inclined to hire someone in their 30's or 40's who is healthier, than the person who looks like they might drop dead in five to ten years.

That's what many older folks with these sorts of problems are dealing with, and it's not easy getting a part-time job pushing shopping carts with Mr. Arthritis kicks in big time forcing the person into exhaustion, because they NEED to sit down and rest. Or stacking grocery goods on shelves that are 2 feet over your own head. Walking up and down stairs is not easy with that either. Plus, there is only so much medication a person can tolerate or should be taking, because various meds themselves cause other negative health issues, and should NOT be taken into levels of abuse, just so that person can continue working with some level of ease. Eventually, the consequences of being over-medicated will catch up to that person, and that also includes taking major doses of caffeine, just to stay awake --for long(er) hours-- in *any* job.

If a person of that deteriorating *health* condition gets hired and the employer notices the new guy/gal can't keep up with productivity as well as a cheery-eyed 30-or-40-something person can, the job applications might end up being biased enough to rule out the older person in a higher career type of field, than some young person with lots of vibrant potential. In a way, that is sort of being fair as far as job skills might go, but it is also being biased toward the person with lots of previous experience vs. someone will little or no experience.

Even smaller jobs aren't always helpful for a young person, because the current workers won't hire if they fear the newbie with potential might end up taking over the existing worker's job within a few years down the road. (I saw that happen many times over.)

I know a situation where a young 30-something got promoted to twice her salary, but is also headed for burn-out in a few years, because the employer has asked an awful lot for that person to accomplish (24-hour, 7-day a week ON CALL sort of situation, even on days scheduled as OFF). I also know an older someone who had that sort of job, who realized that burn-out was right around the corner, because the job required 24-hour, 7-day a week ON CALL in case of emergencies, which always seemed to happen. And that job was an hour away one-way. Sure, get a 2:30 a.m. call to come in after maybe 2 hours of sleep (being an insomniac), because someone scheduled got sick and has to or had to go home. ugh!

[Womble]

Until such time as our economy recovers to the point where the true unemployment rate is 2-3 %, and companies have to competitively outbid each other to get employees, we have no business whatsoever bringing in citizens of other countries, legally or illegally to take jobs that U.S. workers could be doing.

In which country on this planet (other than totalitarian planned economy ones) has that ever been the case?

The theoretical (rarely actually happens) unemployment rate that qualifies as full employment by OECD standard is between 4% and 6.4%. It's more about the nature of unemployment than the exact rate at moment of measurement.

In some industries - like tourism and agriculture - unemployment is cyclical as there's much more work during high season than during low season. In most economies these days there's an increasing amount of structural unemployment - people who can't find work because technology progress has rendered their professional skills obsolete. There's also people who quit one job and are looking for another. You're not going to get a 2-3% unemployment in a real-world economy without heavy state intervention and creating artificial filler jobs.

[Gatefan1976]

Do you mean the corporate welfare of the M.I.C. Womble?

[Coco Pops]

Do you mean the corporate welfare of the M.I.C. Womble?

It would be chaos if the Military Industrial Complex went bust, all those generals and their big stock portfolios

[Gatefan1976]

It would be chaos if the Military Industrial Complex went bust, all those generals and their big stock portfolios

Imagine what you could do with the 300 million you would spend on 10 new planes that even your military advisors don't want!!

[Falcon Horus]

Really?

Yeah, I went there...

Russian troops join combat in Syria

Fighting alongside the lesser of two evils, Assad.

This is a reminder that if the USA doesn't meddle, others will. Politics, like nature, abhor void.

Of course, but at least the US won't have to complain about always having to clean up the mess. Now, they only have to complain that Russia is taking the front.

I imagine, countries like little children who fight over a favored toy.

Isolationism just means that instead of handling threats and crises, you choose to let them handle you.

Food for thought.

Remove the American meddling, and the result will be the same as removing the apex predator from any ecosystem - collapse of stability.

We're about to find out.

Australia would feel all of that through both refugee waves from the warring areas...

No, they won't. They send all boats back so it would just be more work for their local coastguards.

And what do you think will happen in a decade or two when the U.S. collapses due to our own internal stupidity?

I have good news for you. According to the statistics the US will remain the strongest nation for another few decades:

United States: The United States heads the UN's list of countries by GDP, and is the third most populous country in the world. It also heads the power index on four parameters, namely economic, military, technological, and foreign affairs capabilities. The US looks set to stay on the top of the list for at least another decade or more.
Source: Top Ten Most Powerful Countries in the World

The Islamic State was created directly after the USA gov't granted a prisoner swap of 5 Taliban militants for one American named Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl. One of the 5 is now the self-proclaimed leader of the Islamic State (I.S., ISIL or ISIS).

IS came to power after the US chopped the head off Al-Qaeda. They filled the void left by Al-Qaeda which was splintered after the US gave them what for.

Since then, NO ONE country has wiped out the entire I.S., but allowed them to grow to the degree and geographical locations they now exist in. Not to also mention the Boko Haram, who have pledge allegiance with the I.S., making the group that much larger and widespread.

Allowed them?!

Then please tell the rest of the world to stop begging, pleading or demanding for the US to go rescue this one and that one -- because that's all we've heard since I grew up in the 1960's. In the beginning it was the Vietnam wars... South American jungles, Panama Canal rescues, later the Middle East (1991), and it hasn't stopped ever since.

The US will interfere if they can get something out of it...

Panama Canal is important to the economy. The Middle East has all that oil we apparently need to survive.

The Vietnam War (1954 - 1975), a protracted conflict that pitted the communist government of North Vietnam and its allies in South Vietnam, known1 as the Viet Cong, against the government of South Vietnam and its principal ally, the United States. Called the “American War” in Vietnam (or, in full, the “War Against the Americans to Save the Nation”), the war was also part of a larger regional conflict (see Indochina wars) and a manifestation of the Cold War between the United States and the Soviet Union and their respective allies.

Perhaps US should stop making allies -- Annoyed could be onto something. The US should isolate itself again from the rest of the world, perhaps that will solve the issue. Let China and Russian deal with it.

There are also problems amongst people fresh out of schools and colleges, because they simply cannot live as their grandparents could back in the mid-to-late 1900's. Some young folks have moved back in with mom or dad, or some relative, because they simply cannot afford to pay rent or buy a home (some homes in foreclosure require handyman's special financial support, too...

Not just a US-problem.

I honestly see the opposite where young people struggle to get good jobs because its saturated with the older people who have the experience employers ask for

Word.

[Annoyed]

In which country on this planet (other than totalitarian planned economy ones) has that ever been the case?

The theoretical (rarely actually happens) unemployment rate that qualifies as full employment by OECD standard is between 4% and 6.4%. It's more about the nature of unemployment than the exact rate at moment of measurement.

In some industries - like tourism and agriculture - unemployment is cyclical as there's much more work during high season than during low season. In most economies these days there's an increasing amount of structural unemployment - people who can't find work because technology progress has rendered their professional skills obsolete. There's also people who quit one job and are looking for another. You're not going to get a 2-3% unemployment in a real-world economy without heavy state intervention and creating artificial filler jobs.

I know, 2-3 % is probably not reasonable. But, the actual statistic doesn't matter anyway, as the government numbers can't be trusted.They have been jiggering the stats to make the situation look better than it is since the Carter administration. They also jigger the inflation rate, consumer price index and other such stats as well.

The point is that until all U.S. workers who need to support themselves can do so comfortably, including health care & benefits, we have no business importing workers or sending jobs outside of country. In a recovery, as demands for products goes up, the need for workers goes up. This should cause employers to compete with each other for workers, sweetening the pot with higher wages, benefits such as health care and such. That is simple economics even I understand; the law of supply and demand.

Importing workers or sending jobs overseas invalidates this basic underlying principle of a free economy. This law of supply and demand is one of checks upon employer power in a free system. But the big money and big business interests have gotten the government to remove this check. Is it any wonder that corporate management is having a field day, while the working classes are falling farther and farther behind?

[Annoyed]

I have good news for you. According to the statistics the US will remain the strongest nation for another few decades:

I really hope you are right. But I doubt it. Unless we can find the will to reverse course, we are going to crash economically, and hard. We've been broke for decades, and we just spending like a drunken sailor on leave. Our leaders cannot control spending, so we've been borrowing, using financial & accounting tricks, printing money that is based nothing. We delinked the dollar from the gold (or any other hard standard) back in the 60's.. We are sort of like Penny in the episode of TBBT where she's getting her mail.. "Penny: Oh, damn, they cancelled my Visa. Oh, yay, a new MasterCard!"
Eventually, just as with Greece, we are going to run out of financial tricks, willing lenders and such, and the existing lenders will start to call in their loans.. But there is no one around who is big enough to bail us out, and even if there was, I highly doubt anyone with the ability to do so would want to do so. It would be a foolish investment of their money, given our track record.

Unless we can get our financial house of cards in order, and I highly doubt we can, we're going to crash. And that won't be pretty.

Panama Canal is important to the economy.

Oh, really. Then why did we cede ownership and control of it to Panama in a treaty signed in the late 70's?

[Coco Pops]

Imagine what you could do with the 300 million you would spend on 10 new planes that even your military advisors don't want!!

I can well imagine. Health and education funding for one thing..

[Falcon Horus]

We've been broke for decades, and we just spending like a drunken sailor on leave.

If Ireland and Iceland can do it, so can the US. And the drunken sailor comment made me chuckle.

Oh, really. Then why did we cede ownership and control of it to Panama in a treaty signed in the late 70's?

Does that global economy ring a bell?

[jelgate]

The US will interfere if they can get something out of it...

Panama Canal is important to the economy. The Middle East has all that oil we apparently need to survive.

The Vietnam War (1954 - 1975), a protracted conflict that pitted the communist government of North Vietnam and its allies in South Vietnam, known1 as the Viet Cong, against the government of South Vietnam and its principal ally, the United States. Called the “American War” in Vietnam (or, in full, the “War Against the Americans to Save the Nation”), the war was also part of a larger regional conflict (see Indochina wars) and a manifestation of the Cold War between the United States and the Soviet Union and their respective allies.

Perhaps US should stop making allies -- Annoyed could be onto something. The US should isolate itself again from the rest of the world, perhaps that will solve the issue. Let China and Russian deal with it.

While true I would point out that most countries interfere if they can get something out of it.

Word.

hippopotomonstrosesquipedaliophobia

[Falcon Horus]

While true I would point out that most countries interfere if they can get something out of it.

Indeed they would.

hippopotomonstrosesquipedaliophobia

I knew I'd seen this word before, it was in a phobia list -- the fear of long words.