Originally posted by Annoyed
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Originally posted by mad_gater View PostYeah we could fight a tariff war with China (and others). However the only losers in a tariff war are the consumers on BOTH sides of the proverbial fence. I wonder what happened to competing in the global marketplace on the basis of quality of goods/services offered rather than simply engaging in tariff wars with everybody? The USA used to produced quality goods that lasted. For example, we recently got rid of a stand mixer we had that was made in the USA that had lasted us a good 40+ years. We need to get back to producing quality goods that last and let that be our selling point in the global market. However I also suspect that the "tariff genie" is going to be a difficult one to put back into the bottle.
In the real world, other nations stack the deck in their favor. How many offshore manufacturers use child & or forced labor to make products that are then sold in the US? Or don't require that their manufacturers meet health and safety standards that ours have to meet? What about currency manipulation, where a nation will artificially manipulate the value of their currency to give themselves a financial leg up over US workers? Or where the foreign governments outright subsidize their manufacturers? Or situations where US corporations move labor to nations where the cost of living, and therefore the wages paid to workers are pennies to the dollar in comparison to US costs/wages? Ever wonder why you can't understand the guy on the tech support line?
Certainly, some industries have shot themselves in the foot *cough* US automakers; GM should be out of business by now, and Chrysler should have gone belly-up in 1979. And the vast majority of MBA'ed idiots can't look past this week's bottom line, so of course, quality goes out the window.
But many other nations have more than adequately demonstrated that they will not play on a level playing field. So screw 'em.
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Originally posted by Annoyed View PostIn an ideal world, competing on the global marketplace would be a good idea. But this is far from an ideal world.
In the real world, other nations stack the deck in their favor. How many offshore manufacturers use child & or forced labor to make products that are then sold in the US? Or don't require that their manufacturers meet health and safety standards that ours have to meet? What about currency manipulation, where a nation will artificially manipulate the value of their currency to give themselves a financial leg up over US workers? Or where the foreign governments outright subsidize their manufacturers? Or situations where US corporations move labor to nations where the cost of living, and therefore the wages paid to workers are pennies to the dollar in comparison to US costs/wages? Ever wonder why you can't understand the guy on the tech support line?
Certainly, some industries have shot themselves in the foot *cough* US automakers; GM should be out of business by now, and Chrysler should have gone belly-up in 1979. And the vast majority of MBA'ed idiots can't look past this week's bottom line, so of course, quality goes out the window.
But many other nations have more than adequately demonstrated that they will not play on a level playing field. So screw 'em.
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Originally posted by Gatefan1976 View PostThe tariffs are specifically targeted to middle America.
I think people who support Trump's trade war don't understand how modern-day supply chains work. Those "made in China" and "made in America" labels indicate point of assembly more than the sourcing of components or on which side profits end up.
China imports Boeing planes; it also supplies Boeing with wing panels and doors which go into those planes, and those are made from American aluminium; construction materials imported from China to USA are made from raw materials which USA exports to China. Electronics assembled in China use raw materials and components sourced from a dizzying number of countries worldwide, USA included. When you hit China with tariffs, you hit American manufacturers with tariffs. It's a given.
And American manufacturers under tariffs means American jobs lost.If Algeria introduced a resolution declaring that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions.- Abba Eban.
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Originally posted by Annoyed View PostI gather you oppose sending the National Guard to the border. You oppose the wall. How would you establish control of the border and stop illegal immigration? The answer of not stopping it or not establishing control is not acceptable.
Because I did not say such thing. I just laid out the facts currently known.
You do with your border as you like -- there's already a wall, barbed wire, regular controls (?) of border agents. It's impossible to wall it off entirely, seeing as how there are parts where you have water dividing the US from Mexico. You also can't build a wall on every inch of it that isn't water.
People who already make the journey, knowing it's hell to do so, will not be stopped by a wall or the National Guard (whom nodobdy really knows is going to do being -- shoot immigrants? Good thing the US never ratified the Geneva convention). Most of those people are not coming on, on first class immigration runs. They risk their lives to get to the other side (no sane man/woman/child would undertake on any given day).
My problem is mostly that Trumpiewumpie has no clue about the actual immigration facts and just makes stuff up that sound good enough to justify his actions. He doesn't have the first clue, immigration is at an all-time low. Doesn't have a clue, because it's boring, about anything really -- not even his brilliant plan to tariff China into the ground.
Originally posted by Annoyed View PostSo, what are we supposed to do? Just continue to allow China to dump steel and other products on our markets? Sorry, wrong answer.
His black and white view of loosing and winning, means he's missing the bigger picture.
Originally posted by Annoyed View PostYou keep trying to convince me that voting for Trump was a mistake. You will fail.
He is not perfect, but is by far the best choice we had.
Originally posted by mad_gater View PostYeah we could fight a tariff war with China (and others). However the only losers in a tariff war are the consumers on BOTH sides of the proverbial fence.
Originally posted by Annoyed View PostEver wonder why you can't understand the guy on the tech support line?
Originally posted by Annoyed View PostBut many other nations have more than adequately demonstrated that they will not play on a level playing field. So screw 'em.
Originally posted by SoulReaver View Posthey Mexico could actually need their own wall one day - to keep americans out (when Trump's interior policy sends them fleeing south)
Originally posted by Womble View PostThey aren't. They are targeting the main categories of imported goods from the USA. Most of them happen to come from the American Midwest because that's where the American manufacturing industry and agriculture mostly are. But California winemakers and some other blue state industries will be hit hard.
I think people who support Trump's trade war don't understand how modern-day supply chains work. Those "made in China" and "made in America" labels indicate point of assembly more than the sourcing of components or on which side profits end up.
China imports Boeing planes; it also supplies Boeing with wing panels and doors which go into those planes, and those are made from American aluminium; construction materials imported from China to USA are made from raw materials which USA exports to China. Electronics assembled in China use raw materials and components sourced from a dizzying number of countries worldwide, USA included. When you hit China with tariffs, you hit American manufacturers with tariffs. It's a given.
And American manufacturers under tariffs means American jobs lost.Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum
Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1
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Who needs facts?
Facts just get in the way of whatever junk you are trying to make up.
For instance
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.4b1219dc372d
But women are joining this caravan of refugees to GET AWAY FROM the rape gangs and find a better life.
But no let's demonize them.Go home aliens, go home!!!!
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Originally posted by Coco Pops View PostWho needs facts?
Facts just get in the way of whatever junk you are trying to make up.
For instance
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.4b1219dc372d
But women are joining this caravan of refugees to GET AWAY FROM the rape gangs and find a better life.
But no let's demonize them.sigpic
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Originally posted by Annoyed View PostIn an ideal world, competing on the global marketplace would be a good idea. But this is far from an ideal world.
In the real world, other nations stack the deck in their favor. How many offshore manufacturers use child & or forced labor to make products that are then sold in the US? Or don't require that their manufacturers meet health and safety standards that ours have to meet? What about currency manipulation, where a nation will artificially manipulate the value of their currency to give themselves a financial leg up over US workers? Or where the foreign governments outright subsidize their manufacturers? Or situations where US corporations move labor to nations where the cost of living, and therefore the wages paid to workers are pennies to the dollar in comparison to US costs/wages? Ever wonder why you can't understand the guy on the tech support line?
As for the cost of living, it's those imports that keep our cost of living from exploding out of control because that competition keeps prices low. For example, if Canadian pharmaceuticals were allowed to sell their drugs here in the US, prices would plummet because their prices are that much lower, and it's not lower because of a lack of quality as the much higher Canadian life expectancy (among other things) indicate. But such imports are illegal, so our prices are ridiculously high which is a cause of high insurance premiums.
Certainly, some industries have shot themselves in the foot *cough* US automakers; GM should be out of business by now, and Chrysler should have gone belly-up in 1979. And the vast majority of MBA'ed idiots can't look past this week's bottom line, so of course, quality goes out the window.
But many other nations have more than adequately demonstrated that they will not play on a level playing field. So screw 'em.
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Stop trying to rattle the cage. That hasn't a chance in hell of passing both houses of Congress.
Sort of like some Democrats starting the articles of impeachment against Trump
It ain't going to happen, certainly not under this Congress.
And I don't think it could gain much support from most Republicans, either. I wouldn't support it. Is the EPA a bloated, overreaching federal bureaucracy that needs to be severely reigned in? Absolutely. Should it be closed altogether? No.
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Originally posted by aretood2 View PostWhat US workers? The only ones "hurt" are the low tech manufacturing workers which are a very small minority that for some reason gets priority over the other 90% of the workforce. And most of the damage is self inflicted, it's the result of the companies banking on American Government subsidies and protectionism. They relied on those two and that's why they gave the Unions so much. It was poor decisions, plane and simple. You have a point on some of your claims when it comes to China, but what about all the other countries? You don't much of any point there.
You're right, some of the damage is self inflicted, such as the auto industry, thanks the the greed of their unions and the stupidity of management to agree to their demands. By rights, GM should have gone bankrupt, and Chrysler should have done the same way back in 1979.
But the fact is that 60% of our workers aren't college graduates. Some people can't hack college, others simply can't take the time to do it while supporting themselves. Our economy should provide employment for this large part of the population.
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Originally posted by Annoyed View PostA small minority? I think not. According to: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/educati...ial-challenges only 40% of the US workforce has a college degree. 60% is the majority, my friend, not a small minority.
You're right, some of the damage is self inflicted, such as the auto industry, thanks the the greed of their unions and the stupidity of management to agree to their demands. By rights, GM should have gone bankrupt, and Chrysler should have done the same way back in 1979.
But the fact is that 60% of our workers aren't college graduates. Some people can't hack college, others simply can't take the time to do it while supporting themselves. Our economy should provide employment for this large part of the population.
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