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    Originally posted by DEM
    Sweet! Thanks, Deej. Now, when you say the principals have stories that focus on them, does that mean their personal lives or is it more like something about a case is signicant to them for whatever reason (professional or personal)?
    In case anyone doesn't want to be spoiled for CSI.

    Spoiler:
    No, not their personal lives. Well, unless the principal is named Catherine, then all bets are off. We know tons about her personal life: She's an ex stripper, had a coke problem, had an abusive ex husband who was killed in one episode, has troubles with her teenage daughter, who has been showing up as a recurring character since the first season. Stories that focus on her are personal life stuff, as well as case stuff. She's the drama-queen of the show. (Don't get me wrong though, I love the character.)

    Stories that focus on the rest of them, are mainly case related stuff, with little bits of personal thrown in, but not much. We know Warrick is a gambling addicts, and this has come up a few times. So has his ties to kids from his old neighborhood. Nick once had a stalker-scariest episode of all time, imo, and I had ALREADY feared attics. He was also kidnapped and buried alive. He had a dicey relationship with a hooker, who was murdered and he was the suspect. Brass has a daughter that has sown up in several episodes related to cases they've been on. Sara has always been profoundly affected by domestic violence cases, in the fifth season we learned her personal history which explained why. Grissom we really only know through cases, and his relationship with the others. He did have a medical condition, now cured. He's enigma man. (And my secret tv boyfriend, hands off everyone else!)

    In six years we've seen inside Grissom's house twice, Catherine's maybe three times, Sara's once, and never Nick, Warrick, or Brass. Catherine's estranged father has been the subject of several episodes over the seasons, we've seen her mother quite a bit as well. Her half brothers were the murder and vic in one episode too. We've heard Warrick mention his grandmother a couple of times, Grissom mention his mother a couple of times. Nick's parents were in the episode he was kidnapped. And we know some things about Sara's parents. We've seen the many loves and lovers of Catherine, Warrick was married for a season but his wife only seen once, other than the hooker, we know nothing about Nick's love life, Sara had a boyfriend for a couple of seasons who turned up from time to time as he was a paramedic they worked with, and involved in one case. And Grissom and Sara have always had a thing, and are now together.


    Yeah. And you thought I was addicted to Stargate.

    Comment


      Originally posted by DEM
      I NEED HELP!


      I got to thinking about something last night, but I'd like to gather some data -- cryptically -- before I post my thoughts. If anyone who is so inclined could answer one or both of the questions below, I'd be most obliged.[list=1][*]Name 1 or 2 teevee shows that feature a defined group of some kind (e.g., an organisation, school, division, department). For each program, indicate how many principals there are & provide a very brief synopsis of the structure of a typical episode.
      For Example: Gilligan's Island featured the day-to-day lives of a group of seven castaways on an uncharterd desert isle. Gilligan was typically the focal point, but eps tended to revolve around his interactions with the other island-dwellers and their shared quest to survive and leave the island.

      thank yew in advance.
      Firefly. Though it only lasted 15 episodes (not because it was crap, but because it got shafted by the network ), it had excellent character interaction. 8 main cast members, and dozens of ways they linked together. Definitely a show where the characters drove the story, rather than the characters serving the plot like in Stargate. The story would usually revolve around the crew of the Serenity arriving at a planet, getting into trouble while they did their smuggling thing, conflict among the characters, get out of trouble but not nessacarly have the character conflict resolved.
      And though I haven't seen Buffy or Angel, they were created by the same guy that created Firefly (Joss Whedon) and he's kinda considered a god amongst fandoms So I wouldn't be surprised if they had similiar styles to Firefly.

      Comment


        ... Thought #4 ... (and you thought I was done???)...

        The first 8 seasons had Jack, Sam, Daniel and Teal'c. The Team.

        Many fans wanted to see just a little more interaction between the team - or at least references to it. Not turning team interaction into the B-storyline or such, but just references to team activities outside of work. Perhaps a few glimpses here and there.

        And when they finally wrote these 'team interactions' into the scripts... it wasn't for The Team. They wrote the team interaction scenes into the New SG-1... where it just didn't feel right.

        After 8 years of wanting to see references to movie night for Jack, Sam, Daniel and Teal'c... there it was for Mitchell's SG-1. Weird... and it felt 'flat'... like it didn't belong. If the original SG-1 of 8 years couldn't have that... how did the Newly Pulled Together Team get things like movie night? If it took 8 years to be able to include a scene where they all go fishing at Jack's lake... how did the New Team go to 'movie night' and basketball pickup games within their first year?

        Because it wasn't included for the beloved Original Team, it was actually sad, and somehow wrong, to see it so quickly for the New Team with the New Characters.

        On the one hand, it seems as if the writers, et. al., were trying to give the fans what they were asking for - more lines and comments about team interaction and the close bonds and friendships between the team members. But why only *after* the Original Team was disbanded and then the team was reassembled around Mitchell's character and leadership?

        What many fans wanted for 8 years for the Original Team, was gifted to the newbies.

        I felt like I'd dropped through the Looking Glass.

        Now, if they'd written Mitchell in as a newbie to the SGC and the Stargate Program... as a Major joining under Carter, Daniel and Teal'c's mentorship, under Carter's direct command... then I can see them making references and having scenes where Carter, Daniel and Teal'c are going to get together (for movie night, or a barbeque, or such) - and then they invite Mitchell along. He's the new guy and we would see the team activities and moments through his excited eyes - ones where it's made clear that he's very appreciative of what he's getting to do. Friendly comradery. Bringing Mitchell in as an addition to the team. He's still learning about the others in a non-professional capacity (off base, when they aren't saving the world).

        Jack would show up occassionally. And when he wasn't there, they'd make references to him and his actions at previous get-togethers.

        And there's no point in saying that such things can't be done because of frat regs -not after what they wrote for Landry, Mitchell, etc. in Seasons 9 and 10. Frat regs and such were how the fans rationalized and justified why the PTB didn't include more team activities and references in the first 8 years. But they *were* able to include them in Seasons 9 and 10, so the previous rationalizations and such don't work anymore.

        -----

        But giving all of the warm-fuzzy, inter-character relationship team moments to the New SG-1... when it really hadn't been done much with the Original Team over an 8 year span? That just felt odd and 'flat' and out of place.

        Makes me sad for the team moments that we didn't get to see over the first 8 years.
        Last edited by astrogeologist; 22 August 2006, 08:12 PM.

        Comment


          Originally posted by astrogeologist
          ... Thought #4 ... (and you thought I was done???)...

          The first 8 seasons had Jack, Sam, Daniel and Teal'c. The Team.

          Many fans wanted to see just a little more interaction between the team - or at least references to it. Not turning team interaction into the B-storyline or such, but just references to team activities outside of work. Perhaps a few glimpses here and there.

          And when they finally wrote these 'team interactions' into the scripts... it wasn't for The Team. They wrote the team interaction scenes into the New SG-1... where it just didn't feel right.

          After 8 years of wanting to see references to movie night for Jack, Sam, Daniel and Teal'c... there it was for Mitchell's SG-1. Weird... and it felt 'flat'... like it didn't belong. If the original SG-1 of 8 years couldn't have that... how did the Newly Pulled Together Team get things like movie night? If it took 8 years to be able to include a scene where they all go fishing at Jack's lake... how did the New Team go to 'movie night' and basketball pickup games within their first year?

          Because it wasn't included for the beloved Original Team, it was actually sad, and somehow wrong, to see it so quickly for the New Team with the New Characters.

          On the one hand, it seems as if the writers, et. al., were trying to give the fans what they were asking for - more lines and comments about team interaction and the close bonds and friendships between the team members. But why only *after* the Original Team was disbanded and then the team was reassembled around Mitchell's character and leadership?

          What many fans wanted for 8 years for the Original Team, was gifted to the newbies.

          I felt like I'd dropped through the Looking Glass.

          Now, if they'd written Mitchell in as a newbie to the SGC and the Stargate Program... as a Major joining under Carter, Daniel and Teal'c's mentorship, under Carter's direct command... then I can see them making references and having scenes where Carter, Daniel and Teal'c are going to get together (for movie night, or a barbeque, or such) - and then they invite Mitchell along. He's the new guy and we would see the team activities and moments through his excited eyes - ones where it's made clear that he's very appreciative of what he's getting to do. Friendly comradery. Bringing Mitchell in as an addition to the team. He's still learning about the others in a non-professional capacity (off base, when they aren't saving the world).

          Jack would show up occassionally. And when he wasn't there, they'd make references to him and his actions at previous get-togethers.

          And there's no point in saying that such things can't be done because of frat regs -not after what they wrote for Landry, Mitchell, etc. in Seasons 9 and 10. Frat regs and such were how the fans rationalized and justified why the PTB didn't include more team activities and references in the first 8 years. But they *were* able to include them in Seasons 9 and 10, so the previous rationalizations and such don't work anymore.

          -----

          But giving all of the warm-fuzzy, inter-character relationship team moments to the New SG-1... when it really hadn't been done much with the Original Team over an 8 year span? That just felt odd and 'flat' and out of place.

          Makes me sad for the team moments that we didn't get to see over the first 8 years.
          Can't green ya again, AstroG but another blue jello worthy post. You say so well what I think a lot of us have been feeling.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Agent_Dark
            Firefly. Though it only lasted 15 episodes (not because it was crap, but because it got shafted by the network ), it had excellent character interaction. 8 main cast members, and dozens of ways they linked together. Definitely a show where the characters drove the story, rather than the characters serving the plot like in Stargate. The story would usually revolve around the crew of the Serenity arriving at a planet, getting into trouble while they did their smuggling thing, conflict among the characters, get out of trouble but not nessacarly have the character conflict resolved.
            And though I haven't seen Buffy or Angel, they were created by the same guy that created Firefly (Joss Whedon) and he's kinda considered a god amongst fandoms So I wouldn't be surprised if they had similiar styles to Firefly.
            Nine main cast members. I very recently watched the DVDs for 'Firefly'. I think it's great. I love Serenity - the ship and the movie.

            Sig courtesy of RepliCartertje

            Comment


              OK, as I posted this on another thread, I may as well complete the thought right now.
              I believe the bigger picture was lost (since S7), but I also have concerns about the Stargate Command idea that RCC and BW talked about beginning pre-S9. I can't figure out whether they scrapped the idea altogether when SciFi rejected the re-branding, or went ahead and simply kept the series name the same, or did some sort of compromise that, ultimately (IMO), didn't work. AFAIC, neither the casting choices nor the early episodes of S9 reflected the "whole new show" that RCC talked about in the S9 DVD commentaries. (When I say 'casting choices', I'm not referring to the specific actors, I'm referring to their roles.) It was more like "new actors and a new villain forced into the same old show -- badly".

              It's possible I'm just confused about what happened when (behind the scenes), but nevertheless they ended up with a big mess -- in my opinion, of course.

              To continue: The numbers don't add up. Was S9 really "a whole new show" that simply carried an old name? Did RCC and BW want to fire most of the old actors before S9? Why does RCC in the DVD commentaries use phrases like "season 1"? Did TPTB really believe that they were doing something fresh and new?!

              As I said above, S9 seemed to me to be basically the same old show but with bad writing and new characters shoved in. There is nothing Stargate Command about S9 to me. That is, when I imagine a show called Stargate Command I imagine episodes like Matter of Time, Foothold, Fair Game, Chain Reaction, and Lockdown. Those episodes featured a strong role for Gen Hammond, Doc Fraiser, Armed Forces bureacracy, other SGC personnel (e.g., other teams, SFs), federal involvement, and a command-wide threat.

              The casting choices for S9 do not suggest to me "a whole new direction". I see the Command CO (Bridges), a 4th team member for SG-1 (BB), a recurring & quickly disappeared CMO, and whatever Vala was supposed to be. If one wanted to make a show about a Command (a base), wouldn't one preserve one's resources for a frequently recurring (if not regular) CMO and a bevy of recurring and one-off characters? When was the last time we saw Maj Davis? Where are the Kawalsky's and the Cromwell's, the visiting medical specialists, the Air Force Brass, the foreign and alien invaders and dignitaries?

              Why were SG-1 reformed with much the same mission they had pre-S9? Why weren't they charged to be a specialty team of some sort... something wholly new and different?

              I've run out of steam for now. Basically, it comes down to this: Something doesn't add up.

              Comment


                p.s. Cold Lazarus is on SciFi. Now, I know this is not a major fan favourite (which i've never quite understood), but in terms of organic character (incl. the team) development, it puts anything & everything in S9 to shame.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by DEM
                  p.s. Cold Lazarus is on SciFi. Now, I know this is not a major fan favourite (which i've never quite understood), but in terms of organic character (incl. the team) development, it puts anything & everything in S9 to shame.
                  Let's see Monday, I had the option of watching Within the Serpents Grasp, which I had seen many, many, many, many times (did I mention I've seen it a lot ) or Collateral Damage (had to go look up the title, because it wasn't that memorable) which I've only seen once...well guess which one I chose Boy I miss those wonderfully written team episodes
                  sigpic

                  my fanfic

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by DEM
                    OK, as I posted this on another thread, I may as well complete the thought right now.
                    I believe the bigger picture was lost (since S7), but I also have concerns about the Stargate Command idea that RCC and BW talked about beginning pre-S9. I can't figure out whether they scrapped the idea altogether when SciFi rejected the re-branding, or went ahead and simply kept the series name the same, or did some sort of compromise that, ultimately (IMO), didn't work. AFAIC, neither the casting choices nor the early episodes of S9 reflected the "whole new show" that RCC talked about in the S9 DVD commentaries. (When I say 'casting choices', I'm not referring to the specific actors, I'm referring to their roles.) It was more like "new actors and a new villain forced into the same old show -- badly".

                    It's possible I'm just confused about what happened when (behind the scenes), but nevertheless they ended up with a big mess -- in my opinion, of course.

                    To continue: The numbers don't add up. Was S9 really "a whole new show" that simply carried an old name? Did RCC and BW want to fire most of the old actors before S9? Why does RCC in the DVD commentaries use phrases like "season 1"? Did TPTB really believe that they were doing something fresh and new?!

                    As I said above, S9 seemed to me to be basically the same old show but with bad writing and new characters shoved in. There is nothing Stargate Command about S9 to me. That is, when I imagine a show called Stargate Command I imagine episodes like Matter of Time, Foothold, Fair Game, Chain Reaction, and Lockdown. Those episodes featured a strong role for Gen Hammond, Doc Fraiser, Armed Forces bureacracy, other SGC personnel (e.g., other teams, SFs), federal involvement, and a command-wide threat.

                    The casting choices for S9 do not suggest to me "a whole new direction". I see the Command CO (Bridges), a 4th team member for SG-1 (BB), a recurring & quickly disappeared CMO, and whatever Vala was supposed to be. If one wanted to make a show about a Command (a base), wouldn't one preserve one's resources for a frequently recurring (if not regular) CMO and a bevy of recurring and one-off characters? When was the last time we saw Maj Davis? Where are the Kawalsky's and the Cromwell's, the visiting medical specialists, the Air Force Brass, the foreign and alien invaders and dignitaries?

                    Why were SG-1 reformed with much the same mission they had pre-S9? Why weren't they charged to be a specialty team of some sort... something wholly new and different?

                    I've run out of steam for now. Basically, it comes down to this: Something doesn't add up.
                    OK, I'll bite.

                    It's my opinion that RCC and BW did have every intention of making Stargate Command. In their minds they had ended Stargate: SG-1 and were now making a "new" show, just within the basic framework of their existing universe. The SGC was already established (and built), the villains and major players in the story were already set, and Atlantis already existed as a supplemental source of story/conflict/plot devices. Basically, they were able to start up a new Stargate series without all of the prep time and preproduction that normally goes into such a venture. But something happened. I don't know what that something was, but I firmly believe that it came from Sci-Fi. Somewhere along the line, sometime pretty damn late into this whole thing, Sci-Fi either got cold feet or just flat our said "No". And then things changed. SG-1 had to continue, albeit as a mishmash of the old show and many of the new elements that I believe were decided upon for Stargate Command. Why do I think all this? Funny you should ask.

                    Firstly, as late as the end of January and well after Ben Browder had been announced as joining the franchise, RCC was on record with TV Guide as his character being "M.M." While no doubt an obliquely mysterious thing to say, it is my belief that, yes, this refers to Major Mitchell. All that was left at that point for the character's name to be cleared by legal. I believe that this character was supposed to be the lead on Stargate Command, with any number of supplemental characters filling things out, including at any various point, Sam Carter, Daniel Jackson, and Teal'c. But after that big something happened, Major Mitchell got scuttled in favor of Lt. Colonel Mitchell, now suddenly the new leader of SG-1. The move to SG-1 leader was necessary based upon the manner in which Ben Browder was approached and contracted by TPTB. He was hired to be the lead of their new show, and even though that show never came to be, he was still contracted as the lead.

                    Secondly, this is the only fashion in which I see the break-up of the original SG-1 being useful or meaningful story-wise. If the intention of TPTB has always been to move the SG-1 franchise into movies or miniseries or whatever, then breaking up the team at any point is a bizzare place to take the story. Moving these people away from each other is a bizzare approach to the character relationships, especially given the end of season eight. However, Sam as the link to Area 51, Daniel as the roaming archeologist/expert on the Ancients, and Teal'c as a means to the burgeoning Jaffa Nation all service the concept of Stargate Command. Breaking the characters up into their respective fields of interest would have been a rather seamless method of introducing and including those concepts into RCC's and BW's "new show".

                    Thirdly, the writing got screwed (this one gets a few paragraphs). TPTB began writing for their new show. Plans were set into motion for Stargate Command's first season. But something happened, and many, many things had to change. Avalon I & II and Origin, while well written and reasonably structured, suffer terribly from poor editing. Gary Jones' line "Welcome to Stargate Command," even had to stay in. It's been said in the commentary for those episodes that that three-part story ran incredibly long, with nearly the entire Jaffa storyline being left on the cutting room floor. Obi N'defo was brought back in to play Rak'nor, but only one of his scenes made the cut. A major rewrite and some serious reshooting on this one took place, after that something happened.

                    Next, Joe Mallozzi was suddenly tapped to write The Ties That Bind. Despite having written Ex Deus Machina first and it being ready to shoot, The Ties That Bind was hurriedly thrown together and put in its place. I believe that some episode that was originally planned for Stargate Command had to be scrapped in favor of an SG-1 episode. And I use that term loosely. Ex Deus Machina was moved to later in the shooting schedule, leading to problems with Lou Gossett's schedule that forced TPTB to film Ex Deus Machina almost entirely second unit over four weeks.

                    Moreover, it's been stated somewhere (sorry, my memory is going) that Beachhead as an episode came about by robbing from the intended season finale. Brad Wright moved up his supergate idea and the idea of the SGC and Jaffa facing it together to fill in another spot early in the filming order. Changing things up resulted in the story we got, with Vala's exit and Sam's return, Nerus, and Gerak.

                    Lastly, a couple of the story elements indicate that Stargate Command as a concept was much farther along than TPTB have admitted. Beau Bridges' hiring indicates that General Landry, in all his glory as a "must be serviced" character, was intended to have a substantial role. This doesn't make sense within a continued Stargate: SG-1, where General Hammond was always a supporting player. But within the framework for Stargate Command it fits perfectly. So do his paternal relationships. His "daddy issues" with the new CMO and his fatherly stroking of Cameron Mitchell fits together seamlessly with those two characters' once-intended romance. In Stargate Command that triangular relationship would have been a consistent throughline and tie between the on-base main characters.

                    Then there's all the Free Jaffa Nation stuff and Lou Gossett's hiring as Gerak. Again, paying for such a high priced recurring actor only makes sense from a Stargate Command point of view. He was also very publicly advertised as an addition, although the part never lived up to the hype. All that Jaffa politicking smacks of an element that really fits with Stargate Command.

                    Ooh, right, and then there's the credits, too. After that something happened, the credits for Stargate Command had to be scrapped. This something happened so late that there were no credits in place for the first half of season nine. The cobbled together and badly coordinated stories of all involved parties indicates that whatever happened left everyone scrambling for an explanation.

                    So, there it is. My crazy mind has whirled all those disparate thoughts into this tornado of whacked out conspiracy and intrigue. Take it as you will.


                    ETA:
                    I meant to put in a paragraph or make a point about the new and overbearing IOA Committee that showed up so often in season nine. That for sure would have been a major component of Stargate Command. But like I said, my mind is going..............did I leave the gas on?
                    Last edited by golfbooy; 23 August 2006, 08:58 PM. Reason: Slipped trolley

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by DEM
                      p.s. Cold Lazarus is on SciFi. Now, I know this is not a major fan favourite (which i've never quite understood), but in terms of organic character (incl. the team) development, it puts anything & everything in S9 to shame.
                      Right. Cold Lazerus, while admittedly not one of my favorite episodes, was seminal in my attraction to the show. Ten years ago I first ran into The Broca Divide, followed by the last half of Cold Lazerus the next week. A while later I caught the show again, entranced in the majestic glory that is The Torment of Tantalus. From then on, I was hooked.

                      So, my point is that there must have been something inherent in that episode to peak my curiosity and draw me into the characters. It's one of the three episodes that turned me on to Stargate SG-1. I think it was the starkly adult manner in which the material was presented. There were no flashy special effects, not a shot was fired, and nothing action-packed took place. It was just a very intelligent, realistic portrayal of adults dealing with loss and break-up and, um, intergalactic portals. It was science fiction doing what it's supposed to--examining and exploring human existence.

                      So, yeah, YAY Cold Lazerus!

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by golfbooy
                        OK, I'll bite.

                        It's my opinion that RCC and BW did have every intention of making Stargate Command. In their minds they had ended Stargate: SG-1 and were now making a "new" show, just within the basic framework of their existing universe. The SGC was already established (and built), the villains and major players in the story were already set, and Atlantis already existed as a supplemental source of story/conflict/plot devices. Basically, they were able to start up a new Stargate series without all of the prep time and preproduction that normally goes into such a venture. But something happened. I don't know what that something was, but I firmly believe that it came from Sci-Fi. Somewhere along the line, sometime pretty damn late into this whole thing, Sci-Fi either got cold feet or just flat our said "No". And then things changed. SG-1 had to continue, albeit as a mishmash of the old show and many of the new elements that I believe were decided upon for Stargate Command. Why do I think all this? Funny you should ask.

                        Firstly, as late as the end of January and well after Ben Browder had been announced as joining the franchise, RCC was on record with TV Guide as his character being "M.M." While no doubt an obliquely mysterious thing to say, it is my belief that, yes, this refers to Major Mitchell. All that was left at that point for the character's name to be cleared by legal. I believe that this character was supposed to be the lead on Stargate Command, with any number of supplemental characters filling things out, including at any various point, Sam Carter, Daniel Jackson, and Teal'c. But after that big something happened, Major Mitchell got scuttled in favor of Lt. Colonel Mitchell, now suddenly the new leader of SG-1. The move to SG-1 leader was necessary based upon the manner in which Ben Browder was approached and contracted by TPTB. He was hired to be the lead of their new show, and even though that show never came to be, he was still contracted as the lead.

                        Secondly, this is the only fashion in which I see the break-up of the original SG-1 being useful or meaningful story-wise. If the intention of TPTB has always been to move the SG-1 franchise into movies or miniseries or whatever, then breaking up the team at any point is a bizzare place to take the story. Moving these people away from each other is a bizzare approach to the character relationships, especially given the end of season eight. However, Sam as the link to Area 51, Daniel as the roaming archeologist/expert on the Ancients, and Teal'c as a means to the burgeoning Jaffa Nation all service the concept of Stargate Command. Breaking the characters up into their respective fields of interest would have been a rather seamless method of introducing and including those concepts into RCC's and BW's "new show".

                        Thirdly, the writing got screwed (this one gets a few paragraphs). TPTB began writing for their new show. Plans were set into motion for Stargate Command's first season. But something happened, and many, many things had to change. Avalon I & II and Origin, while well written and reasonably structured, suffer terribly from poor editing. Gary Jones' line "Welcome to Stargate Command," even had to stay in. It's been said in the commentary for those episodes that that three-part story ran incredibly long, with nearly the entire Jaffa storyline being left on the cutting room floor. Obi N'defo was brought back in to play Rak'nor, but only one of his scenes made the cut. A major rewrite and some serious reshooting on this one took place, after that something happened.

                        Next, Joe Mallozzi was suddenly tapped to write The Ties That Bind. Despite having written Ex Deus Machina first and it being ready to shoot, The Ties That Bind was hurriedly thrown together and put in its place. I believe that some episode that was originally planned for Stargate Command had to be scrapped in favor of an SG-1 episode. And I use that term loosely. Ex Deus Machina was moved to later in the shooting schedule, leading to problems with Lou Gossett's schedule that forced TPTB to film Ex Deus Machina almost entirely second unit over four weeks.

                        Moreover, it's been stated somewhere (sorry, my memory is going) that Beachhead as an episode came about by robbing from the intended season finale. Brad Wright moved up his supergate idea and the idea of the SGC and Jaffa facing it together to fill in another spot early in the filming order. Changing things up resulted in the story we got, with Vala's exit and Sam's return, Nerus, and Gerak.

                        Lastly, a couple of the story elements indicate that Stargate Command as a concept was much farther along than TPTB have admitted. Beau Bridges' hiring indicates that General Landry, in all his glory as a "must be serviced" character, was intended to have a substantial role. This doesn't make sense within a continued Stargate: SG-1, where General Hammond was always a supporting player. But within the framework for Stargate Command it fits perfectly. So do his paternal relationships. His "daddy issues" with the new CMO and his fatherly stroking of Cameron Mitchell fits together seamlessly with those two characters' once-intended romance. In Stargate Command that triangular relationship would have been a consistent throughline and tie between the on-base main characters.

                        Then there's all the Free Jaffa Nation stuff and Lou Gossett's hiring as Gerak. Again, paying for such a high priced recurring actor only makes sense from a Stargate Command point of view. He was also very publicly advertised as an addition, although the part never lived up to the hype. All that Jaffa politicking smacks of an element that really fits with Stargate Command.

                        Ooh, right, and then there's the credits, too. After that something happened, the credits for Stargate Command had to be scrapped. This something happened so late that there were no credits in place for the first half of season nine. The cobbled together and badly coordinated stories of all involved parties indicates that whatever happened left everyone scrambling for an explanation.

                        So, there it is. My crazy mind has whirled all those disparate thoughts into this tornado of whacked out conspiracy and intrigue. Take it as you will.
                        Golfbooy, there are parts of this that really make a lot of sense.

                        On edit: Although, it would be interesting to go back through Joe Mallozi's blog to see if you could find supporting evidence.

                        My LJ

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by golfbooy
                          Right. Cold Lazerus, while admittedly not one of my favorite episodes, was seminal in my attraction to the show. Ten years ago I first ran into The Broca Divide, followed by the last half of Cold Lazerus the next week. A while later I caught the show again, entranced in the majestic glory that is The Torment of Tantalus. From then on, I was hooked.

                          So, my point is that there must have been something inherent in that episode to peak my curiosity and draw me into the characters. It's one of the three episodes that turned me on to Stargate SG-1. I think it was the starkly adult manner in which the material was presented. There were no flashy special effects, not a shot was fired, and nothing action-packed took place. It was just a very intelligent, realistic portrayal of adults dealing with loss and break-up and, um, intergalactic portals. It was science fiction doing what it's supposed to--examining and exploring human existence.

                          So, yeah, YAY Cold Lazerus!
                          Yes, yes, yes.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Strix varia
                            Golfbooy, there are parts of this that really make a lot of sense.

                            On edit: Although, it would be interesting to go back through Joe Mallozi's blog to see if you could find supporting evidence.
                            Heh, heh, no dice. Having now looked, Joe's first blog entry came at the end of May, when they were working on Babylon/TFH and when he was writing Convergence (later, Ripple Effect). But I don't need no stinking evidence. I like my delusions uninterrupted by pesky facts that don't fit. Leave the logic out, that's what I always say. Yup, I always say that.

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                              Originally posted by golfbooy
                              Heh, heh, no dice. Having now looked, Joe's first blog entry came at the end of May, when they were working on Babylon/TFH and when he was writing Convergence (later, Ripple Effect). But I don't need no stinking evidence. I like my delusions uninterrupted by pesky facts that don't fit. Leave the logic out, that's what I always say. Yup, I always say that.
                              It's a wonder you didn't like Stargate: SG-1's ninth season then.

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                                Originally posted by golfbooy
                                OK, I'll bite.

                                It's my opinion that RCC and BW did have every intention of making Stargate Command. In their minds they had ended Stargate: SG-1 and were now making a "new" show, just within the basic framework of their existing universe. The SGC was already established (and built), the villains and major players in the story were already set, and Atlantis already existed as a supplemental source of story/conflict/plot devices. Basically, they were able to start up a new Stargate series without all of the prep time and preproduction that normally goes into such a venture. But something happened. I don't know what that something was, but I firmly believe that it came from Sci-Fi. Somewhere along the line, sometime pretty damn late into this whole thing, Sci-Fi either got cold feet or just flat our said "No". And then things changed. SG-1 had to continue, albeit as a mishmash of the old show and many of the new elements that I believe were decided upon for Stargate Command. Why do I think all this? Funny you should ask.

                                Firstly, as late as the end of January and well after Ben Browder had been announced as joining the franchise, RCC was on record with TV Guide as his character being "M.M." While no doubt an obliquely mysterious thing to say, it is my belief that, yes, this refers to Major Mitchell. All that was left at that point for the character's name to be cleared by legal. I believe that this character was supposed to be the lead on Stargate Command, with any number of supplemental characters filling things out, including at any various point, Sam Carter, Daniel Jackson, and Teal'c. But after that big something happened, Major Mitchell got scuttled in favor of Lt. Colonel Mitchell, now suddenly the new leader of SG-1. The move to SG-1 leader was necessary based upon the manner in which Ben Browder was approached and contracted by TPTB. He was hired to be the lead of their new show, and even though that show never came to be, he was still contracted as the lead.

                                Secondly, this is the only fashion in which I see the break-up of the original SG-1 being useful or meaningful story-wise. If the intention of TPTB has always been to move the SG-1 franchise into movies or miniseries or whatever, then breaking up the team at any point is a bizzare place to take the story. Moving these people away from each other is a bizzare approach to the character relationships, especially given the end of season eight. However, Sam as the link to Area 51, Daniel as the roaming archeologist/expert on the Ancients, and Teal'c as a means to the burgeoning Jaffa Nation all service the concept of Stargate Command. Breaking the characters up into their respective fields of interest would have been a rather seamless method of introducing and including those concepts into RCC's and BW's "new show".

                                Thirdly, the writing got screwed (this one gets a few paragraphs). TPTB began writing for their new show. Plans were set into motion for Stargate Command's first season. But something happened, and many, many things had to change. Avalon I & II and Origin, while well written and reasonably structured, suffer terribly from poor editing. Gary Jones' line "Welcome to Stargate Command," even had to stay in. It's been said in the commentary for those episodes that that three-part story ran incredibly long, with nearly the entire Jaffa storyline being left on the cutting room floor. Obi N'defo was brought back in to play Rak'nor, but only one of his scenes made the cut. A major rewrite and some serious reshooting on this one took place, after that something happened.

                                Next, Joe Mallozzi was suddenly tapped to write The Ties That Bind. Despite having written Ex Deus Machina first and it being ready to shoot, The Ties That Bind was hurriedly thrown together and put in its place. I believe that some episode that was originally planned for Stargate Command had to be scrapped in favor of an SG-1 episode. And I use that term loosely. Ex Deus Machina was moved to later in the shooting schedule, leading to problems with Lou Gossett's schedule that forced TPTB to film Ex Deus Machina almost entirely second unit over four weeks.

                                Moreover, it's been stated somewhere (sorry, my memory is going) that Beachhead as an episode came about by robbing from the intended season finale. Brad Wright moved up his supergate idea and the idea of the SGC and Jaffa facing it together to fill in another spot early in the filming order. Changing things up resulted in the story we got, with Vala's exit and Sam's return, Nerus, and Gerak.

                                Lastly, a couple of the story elements indicate that Stargate Command as a concept was much farther along than TPTB have admitted. Beau Bridges' hiring indicates that General Landry, in all his glory as a "must be serviced" character, was intended to have a substantial role. This doesn't make sense within a continued Stargate: SG-1, where General Hammond was always a supporting player. But within the framework for Stargate Command it fits perfectly. So do his paternal relationships. His "daddy issues" with the new CMO and his fatherly stroking of Cameron Mitchell fits together seamlessly with those two characters' once-intended romance. In Stargate Command that triangular relationship would have been a consistent throughline and tie between the on-base main characters.

                                Then there's all the Free Jaffa Nation stuff and Lou Gossett's hiring as Gerak. Again, paying for such a high priced recurring actor only makes sense from a Stargate Command point of view. He was also very publicly advertised as an addition, although the part never lived up to the hype. All that Jaffa politicking smacks of an element that really fits with Stargate Command.

                                Ooh, right, and then there's the credits, too. After that something happened, the credits for Stargate Command had to be scrapped. This something happened so late that there were no credits in place for the first half of season nine. The cobbled together and badly coordinated stories of all involved parties indicates that whatever happened left everyone scrambling for an explanation.

                                So, there it is. My crazy mind has whirled all those disparate thoughts into this tornado of whacked out conspiracy and intrigue. Take it as you will.
                                Great post, golfbooy!

                                And I definitely agree with

                                -- they had their idea for the new series Stargate Command

                                -- they didn't get to do it

                                -- they went ahead and used whatever they could from their Stargate Command series ideas, scripts and storylines and put them into Season 9 of SG-1


                                I don't know the whole story of how Browder's character Mitchell came on to the whole scene, but I definitely agree that the character was originally planned to be Major Mitchell.

                                Following your reasoning regarding their initial plans for their new series Stargate Command, it would seem that they didn't plan for Carter to be in it. (If Mitchell was supposed to be the series lead and not the CO of SG-1).

                                ---

                                From the spoilers and hints, I had thought that it was supposed to be Major Mitchell for the new character - that he was supposed to be a new character and a subordinate to Carter. But then Someone In Power decided that a female in command of SG-1 (Carter) wouldn't work when their basic scifi series formula demands that the Lead Alpha Male *must* be the main commander of the unit (with the most screen time, etc.).

                                I figured that it was purely sexist.

                                Your line of reasoning also makes sense, however.
                                - That they had thought that the SG-1 series would end at the end of Season 8.
                                - That a new series would start and Carter would not be in it (at least not much).
                                - That they had already spoken with Browder, and perhaps even discussed contract details, if not confirmed them, for him to be the lead of the new series.
                                - Then they found out that the SG-1 series would continue
                                ... and that there would be no new spinoff in the immediate future.

                                - They still wanted Browder.
                                - They still wanted their new series.
                                - They were tired of the old SG-1 series.
                                - So they tried to merge the two ideas.
                                - Taking scripts, characters and story arcs and trying to mush them into the SG-1 framework.
                                - Carter was in the way of the New Male Lead and what they'd promised and discussed with him.
                                - So Carter gets reassigned.
                                - The new lead character gets a promotion.
                                - They make him the same rank as Carter - as an attempt to ameliorate the fact that they've written her out of command and given it to the new guy.

                                You know... this all makes a lot of sense.
                                I don't know how it fits the actual facts... but it sure makes a lot of sense.

                                And - it's still sexist. Following this line of reasoning, they were planning their new spinoff series to have the same old Lead Alpha Male formula as SG-1 (O'Neill) and Atlantis (Shep).

                                Harumph! (actually more like grrrrrr...)

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