last person to reply WINS

[uknesvuinng]

Good point.

If i'm actually going to pose a theory, Itry and produce at least SOME scientific knowledge.

And I thank you for that.

[Dr Weir]

Here's the Sci - Tech thread:

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=25507

I thought of something similar a while ago, that the wraith might need to extract ATP/ADP from humans (life force) in order to survive but as you say in the post the ATP just drives the metabolic processes which involve vitamins, fatty acids and minerals. These would still have to be required somehow. Otherwise a lot of coenzymes would be missing (made up of vitamins and minerals) including iron in the blood for eg (it has been shown that wraith have blood). Lipids which have fatty acids chains make up the bilayers in cell membranes. Even if all vitamins could be produced in vivo where would the resources come from? Plants produce all fatty acids and vitamins from the sun's energy and CO2 but they also must gain minerals from the soil and nitrogen in the form of ammonia to produce amino acids which make up proteins in plants and animals. You say the wraith don't excrete but in conversion Dex for some weird reason checked out some iratus bug excretion. That's my opinion.

[Dr Weir]

Just to add for those that don't study biology - in vivo means within the body and coenzymes are cofactors that assist enzymatic reactions.

[Eoin]

Well im off to bed

Night guys

[Eoin]

Just to add for those that don't study biology - in vivo means within the body and coenzymes are cofactors that assist enzymatic reactions.

lol that makes allot of sense

[Dr Weir]

Well im off to bed

Night guys

Good night.

[jonno]

I thought of something similar a while ago, that the wraith might need to extract ATP/ADP from humans (life force) in order to survive but as you say in the post the ATP just drives the metabolic processes which involve vitamins, fatty acids and minerals. These would still have to be required somehow. Otherwise a lot of coenzymes would be missing (made up of vitamins and minerals) including iron in the blood for eg (it has been shown that wraith have blood). Lipids which have fatty acids chains make up the bilayers in cell membranes. Even if all vitamins could be produced in vivo where would the resources come from? Plants produce all fatty acids and vitamins from the sun's energy and CO2 but they also must gain minerals from the soil and nitrogen in the form of ammonia to produce amino acids which make up proteins in plants and animals. You say the wraith don't excrete but in conversion Dex for some weird reason checked out some iratus bug excretion. That's my opinion.

Hmm - very good points (there are the holes). I just don't see where they could get all those things from, unless they remove more than life force from their victims.

One way of explaining some of it would be if the Wraith, once they hit adulthood undergo no further cell division - for regeneration, they could have many specially adapted cells in the blood, which, when the Wraith is injured, quickly differentiate to produce an appropriate tissue.

Either that, or they've developed complex metabolic pathways which means once one metabolite is broken down, it is quickly regenerated in amother metabolic pathway.

Or, they've evolved to make use of Nitrogen and Carbon Dioxide, and possible water vapor in the air (or just normal water), to create the essential compounds (obviously, something we've not managed).

As for ions, such as Iron and Calcium ... I can only think they're stored as a young wraith and constantly recycled.

[jonno]

Anyway - I really should have gone to bed a couple of hours ago, so - see you in the morning!

[Dr Weir]

Hmm - very good points (there are the holes). I just don't see where they could get all those things from, unless they remove more than life force from their victims.One way of explaining some of it would be if the Wraith, once they hit adulthood undergo no further cell division - for regeneration, they could have many specially adapted cells in the blood, which, when the Wraith is injured, quickly differentiate to produce an appropriate tissue.

Even if lets say the cells stopped dividing, the metabolic pathways would still be needed to keep them going and to differentiate cells.

Either that, or they've developed complex metabolic pathways which means once one metabolite is broken down, it is quickly regenerated in amother metabolic pathway.

But where would it all come from originally. My point is stuff isn't made from ATP. ATP is simply just a compund that drive metabolic processes, it make proteins, fatty acids etc up (ie - the consitients of the body).

Or, they've evolved to make use of Nitrogen and Carbon Dioxide, and possible water vapor in the air (or just normal water), to create the essential compounds (obviously, something we've not managed).

No evidence for this, sounds too far fatched.

As for ions, such as Iron and Calcium ... I can only think they're stored as a young wraith and constantly recycled.

What if it's lost, it'll have to be replaced. Again no evidence for this and sounds too far fatched. Plus it'll be too risky for an organism to survive depanded on recycled ions from childhood (particularly an immortal one). Also it's a protein gradient that drives ATP synthesis and breakdown which isn't extenial. This is just going by off the top of my head as I can't be bothered to look it up and I'm busy but ATP drives proteins (membrane channels in the cells) for a lot of process such as respiration. Your theory does not cover how the protein channels would be made and how even RNA and DNA could be produced (also in need of nitrogen and also phospate. I forgot to mention but sugars are needed too, which are not only used for energy but make up DNA and RNA as well. There are also processes that doesn't even invlove ATP at all, such as passive diffusion. A lot of this isn't covered or only a bit in the first yr. You'll learn about it in more detail in the second yr (much more detail).

[SqueeG-1]

Hmmm. Technobabble. Biology babble. Key word - babble.

I'm so confused.

[uknesvuinng]

Hmmm. Technobabble. Biology babble. Key word - babble.

I'm so confused.

I vaguely recognize what Weir is talking about.

[Dr Weir]

I vaguely recognize what Weir is talking about.

That's because you're not familiar with it.

[uknesvuinng]

That's because you're not familiar with it.

Not completely. I've had a few Biology classes in my life, though.

[SqueeG-1]

Not completely. I've had a few Biology classes in my life, though.

I think my last biology class was in Grade 9 or 10 - somewhere around 1842 I think.

[uknesvuinng]

I think my last biology class was in Grade 9 or 10 - somewhere around 1842 I think.

I took Bio and AP Bio in high school, then took Bio I in college.