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Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

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    Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    If the Ancients created human populatios in two galaxies, where did the non-human aliens come from who we've encountered from time to time in Stargate? Or humanoids who look different than us?
    Did the Ancients also spread them around or did they have some other origin?

    #2
    I would assume they just evolve naturally.
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      #3
      Operating assumption has been that non-human life evolved naturally and separately. Except for the Wraith.
      "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

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        #4
        The Dakara device was used by the Ancients, after Atlantis left the galaxy, to destroy all life in the galaxy in order to eradicate a plague. The device was then programmed to recreate life, thus (re)creating the human race on Earth (and Earth alone) and allowed for the evolution of other races, such as the Goa'uld.

        Non-canon unreleased material (the MMO Stargate Worlds) would have explained that each member of the Alliance of Four Great Races had created a "caretaker" species to carry on their work. The Ancients created the humans, the Asgard created a kind of AI that caused the plague, the Nox would insist none was needed (being pacifists), and the Furlings created the Goa'uld. The Goa'uld would then have turned against the Furlings. But this is not canon, so the Goa'uld are indicated to have evolved naturally after the galaxy was reseeded with life.

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          #5
          Originally posted by nivao View Post
          The Dakara device was used by the Ancients, after Atlantis left the galaxy, to destroy all life in the galaxy in order to eradicate a plague. The device was then programmed to recreate life, thus (re)creating the human race on Earth (and Earth alone) and allowed for the evolution of other races, such as the Goa'uld.

          Non-canon unreleased material (the MMO Stargate Worlds) would have explained that each member of the Alliance of Four Great Races had created a "caretaker" species to carry on their work. The Ancients created the humans, the Asgard created a kind of AI that caused the plague, the Nox would insist none was needed (being pacifists), and the Furlings created the Goa'uld. The Goa'uld would then have turned against the Furlings. But this is not canon, so the Goa'uld are indicated to have evolved naturally after the galaxy was reseeded with life.
          That's not the case, at least not in canon. The only discussion of the original use of the Dakara device was Anubis (as the fat dude in the diner in "Threads") telling Daniel that it was originally created to create life after the plague; even labelling that as ironic since he was planning to use it to destroy all life.
          "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

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            #6
            Originally posted by DigiFluid View Post
            That's not the case, at least not in canon. The only discussion of the original use of the Dakara device was Anubis (as the fat dude in the diner in "Threads") telling Daniel that it was originally created to create life after the plague; even labelling that as ironic since he was planning to use it to destroy all life.
            It's been a while since I've seen "Threads", but even if you're correct, the Dakara device is still responsible for creating life, thus answering the question of the OP.

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              #7
              Originally posted by nivao View Post
              It's been a while since I've seen "Threads", but even if you're correct, the Dakara device is still responsible for creating life, thus answering the question of the OP.
              From GateWorld's transcript of "Threads":

              "I know. That's a tough one. (He slides his new newspaper across the counter to Daniel.) Speaking of which, have you seen the latest? (Daniel opens the new copy of The Ascended Times. The main headline reads: "Secret Plan Revealed. Anubis' dastardly plot to regain Ancient Weapon of Destruction".) He's a crafty one. Really knows the ins and outs of the rules. I give him three to one odds to succeed. Wanna know the irony of it all? That device was originally used by the Ancients to create life in the Milky Way ... well, recreate it after the whole plague thing. No kidding."

              Now -- I'll split hairs here: Jim/Anubis says "create life," not 'create all life,' so I don't think that's sufficient to assume that they were responsible for the creation of the Unas, Goa'uld, etc.



              Supposition time:

              Given that the Ancients themselves apparently did not have the gate network set up to dial every gate simultaneously (remember, it was Nerus as Anubis's chief scientist who devised a way to 'hack' the system to make it possible), I would suppose that the Dakara device had to be 'targeted' at whatever world the planet's gate was dialed in to in order to seed it with life.

              My own personal speculation/guess -- which is not directly supported by any canon dialogue, to be clear, I'm just extrapolating on some of the vague lines we've heard -- is that the Dakara device was only used to seed Earth with life, specifically with the Ancients' own DNA. That would explain why humans (the second evolution of the form!) evolved on Earth and only on Earth.
              Last edited by DigiFluid; January 28, 2019, 03:53 AM.
              "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

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                #8
                Originally posted by DigiFluid View Post
                From GateWorld's transcript of "Threads":

                "I know. That's a tough one. (He slides his new newspaper across the counter to Daniel.) Speaking of which, have you seen the latest? (Daniel opens the new copy of The Ascended Times. The main headline reads: "Secret Plan Revealed. Anubis' dastardly plot to regain Ancient Weapon of Destruction".) He's a crafty one. Really knows the ins and outs of the rules. I give him three to one odds to succeed. Wanna know the irony of it all? That device was originally used by the Ancients to create life in the Milky Way ... well, recreate it after the whole plague thing. No kidding."

                Now -- I'll split hairs here: Jim/Anubis says "create life," not 'create all life,' so I don't think that's sufficient to assume that they were responsible for the creation of the Unas, Goa'uld, etc.



                Supposition time:

                Given that the Ancients themselves apparently did not have the gate network set up to dial every gate simultaneously (remember, it was Nerus as Anubis's chief scientist who devised a way to 'hack' the system to make it possible), I would suppose that the Dakara device had to be 'targeted' at whatever world the planet's gate was dialed in to in order to seed it with life.

                My own personal speculation/guess -- which is not directly supported by any canon dialogue, to be clear, I'm just extrapolating on some of the vague lines we've heard -- is that the Dakara device was only used to seed Earth with life, specifically with the Ancients' own DNA. That would explain why humans (the second evolution of the form!) evolved on Earth and only on Earth.
                The fact that Nerus achieved it, dioes not mean the Ancients didn't. If Earth was the only planet to be seeded, then why wasn't the device on Earth? It is implied that the device reorganizes matter, to destroy or create as it were. Anubis said "create life in the Milky Way galaxy", not "create life on Earth". And according to all sources regarding the plague, it would have wiped out life in the galaxy. So if there is no life, how can it evolve?

                Of course, life could evolve naturally. But the plague spread everywhere where the Ancients went, according to their own accounts. It is implied that the Ancients used the device to destroy all life in order to destroy the plague and then reseeded the galaxy with new life.

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by nivao View Post
                  The fact that Nerus achieved it, dioes not mean the Ancients didn't. If Earth was the only planet to be seeded, then why wasn't the device on Earth? It is implied that the device reorganizes matter, to destroy or create as it were. Anubis said "create life in the Milky Way galaxy", not "create life on Earth". And according to all sources regarding the plague, it would have wiped out life in the galaxy. So if there is no life, how can it evolve?

                  Of course, life could evolve naturally. But the plague spread everywhere where the Ancients went, according to their own accounts. It is implied that the Ancients used the device to destroy all life in order to destroy the plague and then reseeded the galaxy with new life.
                  I think your fundamental assumption -- that the plague affected all forms of life -- is flawed, undercutting your whole line of reasoning. The plague, so far as we know, only affected the Ancients. I don't think there's any evidence to support that everything was killed by it, so I don't think there's any reason to assume the Dakara device created multitudes of forms of life.
                  "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by DigiFluid View Post
                    I think your fundamental assumption -- that the plague affected all forms of life -- is flawed, undercutting your whole line of reasoning. The plague, so far as we know, only affected the Ancients. I don't think there's any evidence to support that everything was killed by it, so I don't think there's any reason to assume the Dakara device created multitudes of forms of life.
                    The plague affected non-Ancient humans, in "Frozen". It was also said that the plague "devastated the galaxy" (at the very least the part of the galaxy that the Ancients inhabited). It is also stated that the Dakara device was used to reseed life in the galaxy, not specifically Earth, after the plague devastated it. What is and isn't shown does not negate what is implied or stated in the show itself. No matter if the Dakara device did or didn't destroy all life, no matte if other life evolved naturally, the Dakara device was responsible for restoring life to parts of the galaxy after the plague.

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                      #11
                      If what Ayiana carried was that particular plague, it would stand to reason that it was also transferable to the humans spread throughout the galaxy at that point too. But as far as we know, wasn't most of humanity spread around the galaxy transplanted by the Goa'uld after the Ancients disappeared.

                      Whose to say there's a frequency that effects every single lifeform in the Milky Way, though? It had to be calibrated to work on the Replicators. Whats to say that the other non-human lifeforms would be effected by the same frequency that effects us?
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                        #12
                        Originally posted by nivao View Post
                        The plague affected non-Ancient humans, in "Frozen". It was also said that the plague "devastated the galaxy" (at the very least the part of the galaxy that the Ancients inhabited). It is also stated that the Dakara device was used to reseed life in the galaxy, not specifically Earth, after the plague devastated it. What is and isn't shown does not negate what is implied or stated in the show itself. No matter if the Dakara device did or didn't destroy all life, no matte if other life evolved naturally, the Dakara device was responsible for restoring life to parts of the galaxy after the plague.
                        Right, it affected non-Ancient humans...who are the genetic descendant of the Ancients. The only depiction or statement or evidence of how the plague works indicates it affects Ancients and Ancients alone (and by extension, their genetic descendants). The plague "devastated the galaxy," from the POV of the Ancients. That's not evidence--at all--to suggest that the plague also killed lizards and grass and fish and beans. I don't believe that it's stated or even reasonably implied that the Dakara device had any role in seeding that kind of life anywhere. Life happens, and I think it's a completely illogical stretch to think that the Ancients are solely responsible for the existence of any and all forms of it in this galaxy.

                        Re: Earth vs MW, I'll concede that it's certainly possible they fired up Dakara several or many times. It even seems like a reasonable supposition that, after taking the time to build the thing, they wouldn't just use it once. But I stand firm that the only evidence we've seen of its use is the second evolution of humans on Earth. I would further suggest that the Ancient knowledge repositories' block of any being carrying a Goa'uld (Teal'c, in "The Fifth Race") is evidence--not ironclad, but evidence--to suggest that the Ancients did not create the Goa'uld species.

                        Following that line of thought, if the Goa'uld are a completely independent evolution of life, so are the Unas, and the plants and the moss and the bacteria and every other form of life on that planet.
                        "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by DigiFluid View Post
                          Right, it affected non-Ancient humans...who are the genetic descendant of the Ancients. The only depiction or statement or evidence of how the plague works indicates it affects Ancients and Ancients alone (and by extension, their genetic descendants). The plague "devastated the galaxy," from the POV of the Ancients.
                          To me that makes sense. One could assume that the Ori created the plague to wipe out the Ancients therefore it was engineered to target specific genes that are present in Ancients DNA. That doesn't mean that others weren't affected, perhaps the mortality rate was lower for ''stock'' humans / other life forms.

                          As for the Snakes, I thought it was said in some episode that the Goa'ulds were unforeseen and took everybody, including the Asgards, by surprise?

                          My personal theory is that a symbiote from the Unas planet, possibly from an already infected Unas that had a basic understanding and acquired some knowledge, jumped in an unsuspecting host, maybe he/she was studying the feral Unases on the planet, originating from a space-faring race. The snake assimilated the host knowledge and thoughts and successfully infiltrated the explorer's civilization from within, undercover just like they tried on Earth with the Trust. It would certainly explain why the Goa'ulds had access to ships and advanced technology, all those assets might have come from an extinct high-tech civilization.
                          Spoiler:
                          I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
                            As for the Snakes, I thought it was said in some episode that the Goa'ulds were unforeseen and took everybody, including the Asgards, by surprise?
                            Maaaaaybe you're thinking of Thor during "Fair Game," when he's telling them that the Asgard haven't been as diligent in enforcing the Protected Planets Treaty as they should have?

                            O'NEILL
                            Can I ask you something? Why did you let the Goa'uld get that much power in the first place? I mean, if you've got the technology…

                            THOR
                            We are not proud of the fact that we have been forced to ignore the situation as long as we have. But you must understand, there are other concerns for the Asgard. We have an enemy in our home galaxy that is far worse than the Goa'uld.


                            I could be way off, but that's the first thing I thought of when I read that part of your post.


                            Originally posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
                            To me that makes sense. One could assume that the Ori created the plague to wipe out the Ancients therefore it was engineered to target specific genes that are present in Ancients DNA. That doesn't mean that others weren't affected, perhaps the mortality rate was lower for ''stock'' humans / other life forms.
                            Sure, I think that's fair. There's bound to be some cross-species infection -- like how rats were carriers of the bubonic plague -- but that that doesn't mean it wiped out other population.

                            A nitpick though: it was never confirmed that the Ori created the Ancient plague from millions of years ago. From "The Powers That Be":

                            DANIEL
                            All right, I don't know if this helps or not, but we know that the Ancients were almost wiped out by a similar plague. I'm just bringing it up in case there's something in the research that's already been done.

                            VALA
                            You think the Ori gave it to them?

                            [Daniel tilts his head and raises his eyebrows at Vala.]

                            LAM
                            I am aware that SG-1 was infected with a virus, and then cured by an Ancient found frozen down in Antarctica. The symptoms and rate of progression here ARE remarkably similar.

                            TEAL'C
                            Do you have any hypotheses as to why WE have not been affected?

                            LAM
                            No, we're still looking at your blood work. Excuse me.


                            That's a nitpick that's by no means specific to you though dude I see a lot of people on this forum assuming it as read that the Ori were the creators of the original plague, when the actual dialogue that gave rise to that particular assumption leaves it pretty ambiguous.


                            Originally posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
                            My personal theory is that a symbiote from the Unas planet, possibly from an already infected Unas that had a basic understanding and acquired some knowledge, jumped in an unsuspecting host, maybe he/she was studying the feral Unases on the planet, originating from a space-faring race. The snake assimilated the host knowledge and thoughts and successfully infiltrated the explorer's civilization from within, undercover just like they tried on Earth with the Trust. It would certainly explain why the Goa'ulds had access to ships and advanced technology, all those assets might have come from an extinct high-tech civilization.
                            That's a thought. The Unas planet certainly didn't look like it had anything in the way of advanced technology, so it kind of begs the question of how any Goa'uld got off the planet in the first place. At a guess, any species that might've ferried the first symbiotes off the planet couldn't have been all that advanced though, since we only really ever saw them using technology that was either Ancient or ancient Egyptian-styled.

                            Or we could get super conspiratorial and suggest that that unknown alien species had the ancient Egyptian style first and Ra brought it to Earth and that's why we associate it with Egypt
                            "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by DigiFluid View Post
                              Maaaaaybe you're thinking of Thor during "Fair Game," when he's telling them that the Asgard haven't been as diligent in enforcing the Protected Planets Treaty as they should have?
                              ...
                              I could be way off, but that's the first thing I thought of when I read that part of your post.
                              No that's actually exactly it, thanks a lot for that. You sure know your SG well, and it does seem like I got this wrong, like what's coming below...

                              A nitpick though: it was never confirmed that the Ori created the Ancient plague from millions of years ago. From "The Powers That Be":
                              I really thought it was said at some point that the Ori created the plague. It's not confirmed, so I stand corrected on that point, yet to me they remain ''Ancient Most Wanted'' since we've seen them create similar, seemingly incurable, invisible illnesses, in late SG seasons.

                              Hey and by the way, don't be shy to prove me wrong! I know you guys are much more knowledgeable than I am on SG lore.

                              That's a thought. The Unas planet certainly didn't look like it had anything in the way of advanced technology, so it kind of begs the question of how any Goa'uld got off the planet in the first place. At a guess, any species that might've ferried the first symbiotes off the planet couldn't have been all that advanced though, since we only really ever saw them using technology that was either Ancient or ancient Egyptian-styled.
                              Correct, we've only seen what looks like primitive arts only and caves for the Unas clans. If we look at Chaka's petroglyphs (the first ones) and cave drawings, we can deduct that there has been some kind of ''war'' between Unas and Snaked-Unas. An easy guess would be the Goa'ulds tried to take them as slaves, but soon realized humans were easier to control. Maybe the fact that Chaka was so hostile towards Daniel is that they've encountered humans before, and didn't turn out quite well for them.

                              NOW. that being said, I'm starting to think that maybe, just maybe, the Goa'ulds came from a completely different planet. The snakes on ''The First Ones'' planet are clearly mentioned NOT to have any traces of Naquadah in them. The Goa'uld that took over that marine also seemed pretty dumb, which means that this specific species of symbiote does not have any organic memory. That's how they transmit their knowledge right? If those snakes don't have any knowledge, that could possibly mean that they never had any off-world experience AND paired with the fact that they don't have any naquadah, could mean that we're talking about two different species of snakes. So that either means that the Naquadah'ed Snakes are from another planet or elsewhere on the Unas planet, maybe a freak accident of nature.

                              Obviously that's 100% assumption, fanwack theory I guess.

                              Or we could get super conspiratorial and suggest that that unknown alien species had the ancient Egyptian style first and Ra brought it to Earth and that's why we associate it with Egypt
                              Egyptians = Lizardmen (Unas) with fancy dresses posing as Gods (Goa'ulds). Damn Digi, you got something there. Giorgio would be proud! When's the next appearance on Ancient Aliens? can't wait to see you there
                              Spoiler:
                              I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

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