Daniel and Archaeology

[Margaret]

So -- what do you have to write on?

Any particular reason you're looking to Stargate for inspiration?

[Sparki101]

So -- what do you have to write on?

Any particular reason you're looking to Stargate for inspiration?

GIS in the Egyptian Antiquities Authority: It's implementation in Archaeological Management of Sites, Surveys and Excavations and Abydos in the Egyptian Predynastic.

Now try saying that 10 times really, really fast

I was wondering if Daniel had done the same thing as I had done. It gives me inspiration to do the paper when I think of all the things I could be doing once I've got my degree.

[Genghis Bong]

ouch

[Sparki101]

Damn Straight!

[Margaret]

OK, what do you think about the line in Evolution 2 where the rebel captain accuses Daniel of stealing artifacts?

[Margaret]

Come to think of it, the stargate was discovered in Giza in 1928.

Is there some treaty covering ancient artifacts that would require the United States to return it?

And if someone were to argue that *that* stargate was destroyed, shouldn't the United States give the Egyptians the replacement model?

[Sparki101]

Yes, there is a protection clause that states that artefacts should be returned to their home countries, particularly if the artefact is of a religious nature or if they are human remains. In the real world, this is often ignored, particularly if it is a richer country that has 'stolen' the artefact. The less developed country are often paid to shut up about it or are 'encouraged' to sign a lease which allows the artefact to stay where it is.

If an artefact needs to be treated and specially stored or cleaned, then it should go to the place that is best qualified for the job.

With regards to the Stargate, I have no idea. I found it strange that in the movie, there was hundreds of people around watching the excavation of the Stargate, but years later no one noticed that it had disapeared. Surely something that big and so different to anything else previously uncovered, someone would be curious to it's whereabouts.

You find that people won't settle for a second hand replacement, if it is a ritual artefact then they'll want the original. Egypt cannot claim it as a ritual item as there are no artistic representations or writings that show it as such. Heck, it wasn't even mentioned that there was a Stargate apart from it's coverstones. At the time, they did not know what it was and there are no modern day versions of it used in ritual or religion. Egypt cannot technically ask for it back and expect it to be rightfully returned as it not a ritual item.
Personally, I think it would be a bad idea for the US to give Egypt a replacement stargate. A breach of secuity and therefore the fate of the world is more important than any archaeological find. In cannon, Egypt has not asked for the Stargate back, so I imagine that the US see no reason to give them one.

With regard to Evoloution 2, I imagine the rebel leader was more intrested in what the device did and how much money it was worth than it's archaeological importance. ALOT of money can be made if the find is worth it. When accusing him of stealing, I think his anger was more directed at the US in general for stealing stuff.
I don't know if they could actually claim that Daniel stole it. I can't remember if Daniel had GPS with him. If he did, there would be no excuse to wander over the border and Daniel would be a thief. If Daniel was stealing it illegally, than how come their government could keep track of him and give his last known posistion? But then I doubt the rebel leader knew that. In his eyes, Daniel was a thief.

[Sparki101]

Thanks for your questions Margret, it's been interesting to answer them.

It would be nice to see Daniel torn up about not being allowed to give a ritual artefact back to it's people or even not allowed to explain why. It would also be interesting to see if Egypt did claim back the stargate as although they cannot expect to get it back, they are legally entitled to all information discovered about it.

[Mr Prophet]

Thanks for your questions Margret, it's been interesting to answer them.

It would be nice to see Daniel torn up about not being allowed to give a ritual artefact back to it's people or even not allowed to explain why. It would also be interesting to see if Egypt did claim back the stargate as although they cannot expect to get it back, they are legally entitled to all information discovered about it.

Of course, it's not technically Egyptian. Also, the Giza Gate was not destroyed; the Antarctic Gate was. The Giza Gate is alive and well, which means that the Egyptian antiquities guys will have a claim (as they did on the Stewart finds in The Curse).

Now, the use of the Antarctic Gate is an even bigger issue, since Antarctica is international territory. I'm pretty sure no one nation - and especially not any one nation's military - is supposed to sneak off artefacts. Of course, there probably aren't hard and fast rules as no-one expects to find many artefacts in the Antarctic, but there are rules regarding scientific collaboration and research, I'm sure.

[MagnoliaAnaglypta]

OK, what do you think about the line in Evolution 2 where the rebel captain accuses Daniel of stealing artifacts?

Well, I think that there is a sensible refutation to be made against that accusation, but sitting tied to a chair in a hut facing a hyper-excitable government rebel probably wasn't the time or place to make it1

The obvious answer would be that it wasn't theft, that Drs Jackson and Lee were operating with the knowledge and tacit approval of the local government who presumably recognised that an artifact of such a highly specialised nature (even if they hadn't been told precisely what it was...) would need very specialised investigation, probably with the aid of very specialised tools. And that the Nicaraguan government in all likelihood recognised that they had neither the resources nor the expertise to do this. That they possibly operated with some expectation that they would reap a financial consideration from the American Government in due course for allowing the Americans to display the artifact in one of their large museums.

[Sparki101]

Now, the use of the Antarctic Gate is an even bigger issue, since Antarctica is international territory. I'm pretty sure no one nation - and especially not any one nation's military - is supposed to sneak off artefacts. Of course, there probably aren't hard and fast rules as no-one expects to find many artefacts in the Antarctic, but there are rules regarding scientific collaboration and research, I'm sure.

You must share information and scientific collaboration on human remains and ritual items. The Stargate is not classed as either of these two. Now you claimed the gate was not techically egyptian, and if proved, Egypt is entitled to nothing. Why did you say it's not technically Egyptian?
No one is supposed to sneak of artefacts anywhere, but there is not much you can do about it. The artefacts are usually, if made of precious metals melted down, and sold very quickly. There are alot more apparently important things to track down than artefacts. Unless extremely valuable, then no one will give you any of their time. The US cannot claim the stargate as very valuable object without causing rise to suspision.

whoops sorry wrong quote. I meant to post your first sentance

[Sparki101]

[QUOTE=MagnoliaAnaglypta And that the Nicaraguan government in all likelihood recognised that they had neither the resources nor the expertise to do this. That they possibly operated with some expectation that they would reap a financial consideration from the American Government in due course for allowing the Americans to display the artifact in one of their large museums.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that sounds like it.

[Sparki101]

Now, the use of the Antarctic Gate is an even bigger issue, since Antarctica is international territory. I'm pretty sure no one nation - and especially not any one nation's military - is supposed to sneak off artefacts. Of course, there probably aren't hard and fast rules as no-one expects to find many artefacts in the Antarctic, but there are rules regarding scientific collaboration and research, I'm sure.

The nation that 'stole' the artefact in that case must share any information with the nations that it shares the territory with. This is for all artefacts, not just human remains or ritual items.
hehe. I have just found a plot hole. * strikes through four lines on the wall to make five*

With regards to finding a Stargate in Antartica, I'm unsure. I don't think there has ever been an archaeolgical find that top secret. I should think then the issue of national security overules any claim to share information. But the US would have a helluva job not to A) get caught with an artefact that big and B)explain why they can't share the stargate or any information that comes with it..

[Mr Prophet]

The nation that 'stole' the artefact in that case must share any information with the nations that it shares the territory with. This is for all artefacts, not just human remains or ritual items.
hehe. I have just found a plot hole. * strikes through four lines on the wall to make five*

That's not a plot hole. That no-one complained in Disclosure might be, but that's another story.

With regards to finding a Stargate in Antartica, I'm unsure. I don't think there has ever been an archaeolgical find that top secret. I should think then the issue of national security overules any claim to share information. But the US would have a helluva job not to A) get caught with an artefact that big and B)explain why they can't share the stargate or any information that comes with it..

Well, they presumably pitched it as a rescue mission out of McMurdo, so they could have claimed to be reclaiming their crashed plane/ice-locked ship. When they come out in the public domain, that little titbit will be a thorn, but let's remember that there's no evidence anymore; the Antarctic Gate exploded somewhere in the vicinity of Venus.

[Mr Prophet]

Now you claimed the gate was not techically egyptian, and if proved, Egypt is entitled to nothing. Why did you say it's not technically Egyptian?

Well, technically and documentably it was the creation of an ancient - in fact, the Ancient - alien race, and therefore belongs to the world (ho-ho). I only cited this in a sarcastic fashion as a possible rebuttal by the US govmint; presumably accompanied by a tacit invitation for Egypt to come and have a go if they think they're hard enough.

Actually, thinking of rivalries and alternate claims, I'm surprised the Army and the Navy have never tried to get in on the act. The Marines get a team, why not the USN?