Real Stargate

[meo3000]

Splitsecond, people like you angers me, not because youre smarter than most of us but because youve been indoctrinated to think in a certain way, telling people certain things are impossible to achieve, bla bla bla, theory this, theory that. (By the way, a theory is not a proof, there might be a 99.9999% chance thats its true but theres still a 0.0001% thats it is not)

And then a genius comes around, out of nowhere, with a crazy idea that actually works, and all you little cloned scientists look like fishes out of water wondering why you didnt think of it first.

I think all that studying atrophied your imagination gland... now youre just one big theory.

[JedI Master of the Gate]

I think what we dont know about reality is probably both amazing and horrific at the same time. I would guess if there is a massive conspiracy afoot that shows like x-files and stargate and starwars each have a kernel of truth in them. I would also say that they are a part of of a long long long program to prepare us for those hidden truths.

I don't get the point. There's no need to "prepare" people for reality...they'll either accept it or they won't. Still, I don't think there's a conspiracy going on.

Your right, they will either accept it or they won't. BUT, the point is how they accept it.
Lets just say that tomorrow we are informed by our respective governments that they have been incontact with Aliens for the past 15-20 years. Now people will accept that once the proof is there, but how will they react? Will there be riots? Will there be celebrations? Thats the point.

And Splitsecond, can I make a request?
Go away. Go Away and actruly make a real worm hole. Record the data. Write it up. And then once you've got more then just a bunch of theorys, then tell us whats possable and whats not.

[Coela Bellatore]

The thing about Stargate is that its message is too off, its focus to irreconcilable with what would turn out to be the truth. If a "Stargate" would be revealed then people would look at it and expect things to be run like SG-1 did it. But the way they did things would get us killed in about a week. Any show meant to really pacify people for a "Stargate Unveiling" would show the aliens as always bad, quickly killed, and it would be a much more one sided view of things, because that is what the military would want the public response to be: "Go Earth, **** the rest!" It wouldn't be that the military would be evil or heavy handed, they would just need to do things that most people wouldn't approve of. Take for example the episode I watched today, Summit, from season 5. Daniel goes to kill off the System Lords meeting, his former girlfriend shows up and so he can't do it. In real life they would tell Daniel to cowboy up and kill 'em all because otherwise those system lords will **** us up in the future. *Cough* Ba'al *Cough*. If this show was a secret military/politico plot then that situation would never be presented. Daniel would go there, all the bad Goa'uld would be there, he would kill them after some James Bond-esque shenanigans and return a hero, because if that situation happened in real life then they wouldn't want the public to question them. Is Stargate a cover for a real Galactic program? No. But it is an amusing televisions show and its better that way.

[JedI Master of the Gate]

Take for example the episode I watched today, Summit, from season 5. Daniel goes to kill off the System Lords meeting, his former girlfriend shows up and so he can't do it. In real life they would tell Daniel to cowboy up and kill 'em all because otherwise those system lords will **** us up in the future... ...Daniel would go there, all the bad Goa'uld would be there, he would kill them after some James Bond-esque shenanigans and return a hero.

Problems.
First Daniels not military, so when they yell "Do it Now, thats an Order" he can just ignore them. Secondly, the military higher ups wouldn't have been able to yell "Do it Now, thats an Order". Why? Because the only person that Daniel was in contact with at the time was Jacob/Selmak, and hell its not like he could have force Daniel to do it.

[Splitsecond]

He didnt say replace, he said there may be loop holes and exceptions.

Gravity is being challenged as we speak, rather than the planet spinning creating gravity, some scientist believe its gravitons holding us here.

Black hole and worm hole physics change almost daily. theres 100's of working theories on them every hour.

Every law has exceptions.

fact is a Stargate is POSSIBLE. Maybe not in the sense of wormholes but a device that transports items and lifeforms from one planet to another instantly? Its possible they'll have it in the future. It's also possible they have it now.

They use to say there was no cure for blindness, and now their making glasses that enable blind people to see shapes and shadows.
They use to say it was impossible to light a fire under a wooden ship to get it to move, they did it.
They use to say that replicating a single set of cells into a fully functional organism was impossible, but sheep have been cloned.
They use to say black holes were fictional.

Point is Science IS NEVER absolute.

The theory for how gravity works, black holes work and wormholes will work if they exist is General Relativity. It was formulated by Einstein in 1915. Ever since then we have only found out and proved more of its implications. There is only one theory for black holes and wormholes and its nearly 100 years old. The exception it has is the quantum scale, which is where gravitons come in. They are a way of linking gravity to the quantum scale.

The sudden actual teleportation of a large mass with the intention of the mass staying at the second place for any real amount of time breaks a lot of scientific laws that are known to apply to the whole universe.

All of those things you list were never proven impossible just assumed to be impossible. A wormhole must obey the theory that predicts its existence otherwise the theory is wrong and the prediction of wormhole existence is wrong.

I think what we dont know about reality is probably both amazing and horrific at the same time. I would guess if there is a massive conspiracy afoot that shows like x-files and stargate and starwars each have a kernel of truth in them. I would also say that they are a part of of a long long long program to prepare us for those hidden truths.

40 years of movies and tv shows about aliens and demons and monsters had changed us. Filled the human collective consciousness with things that would have made people 100 years ago freak out. If giant UFOs with aliens land and turn out to be lying to us we will think of V, if we find out about a ufo/majestic 12 conspiracy we will think of xfiles, if we find out terrestrial global conflict has been just the tip of a universal war we will think of starwars.

Basically im saying (conspiracy or no) science fiction televisons and movies have put us in a position where we are more adaptable. 100 years ago Orson Wells War of the World caused mass panic and suicides. If ufos appear over every city in 2012 we will be amazed, but we will think that the movie independance day did it better. And for good or for bad we know what can happen and will have options.

If aliens are friendly we have a mental image of a peaceful federation from startrek, if aliens are hostile we have an image of how to hide and rebel from V and ID4. The truth is always halfway between two extremes tho, so were well prepared all around.

We have come farther in one century than the last 6,000 years.

Before we had aliens we had demons, ghosts and spirits. It's the same old stuff in a more plausible package. The first Christian scientist to publicly state there could be other planets with life on them was killed in the 16th century by the church. Aliens are a very old idea.

Splitsecond, people like you angers me, not because youre smarter than most of us but because youve been indoctrinated to think in a certain way, telling people certain things are impossible to achieve, bla bla bla, theory this, theory that. (By the way, a theory is not a proof, there might be a 99.9999% chance thats its true but theres still a 0.0001% thats it is not)

And then a genius comes around, out of nowhere, with a crazy idea that actually works, and all you little cloned scientists look like fishes out of water wondering why you didnt think of it first.

I think all that studying atrophied your imagination gland... now youre just one big theory.

I never said a scientific theory was proven, just proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Take for instance gravity, the same gravity has been around for the viewable age of the universe, so has light and matter. In 12 billion years they have not changed. The laws we have now were applicable back then.

They are not crazy ideas, they are competing hypotheses. No hypothesis is crazy. It is either blatantly wrong or possible. Some hypotheses are more well received than other hypotheses and some popular hypotheses are shown later to be wrong. A genius can come up with as many hypotheses as he likes, it's not worth a damn until they are shown to work enough in order to become a theory. Experimental physicists are the people that gather the evidence for a given hypothesis. As a result they never get the credit for the theory but the theory would only be a hypothesis without them.

This is how science works. Some theorists come up with ideas of how the universe works based on some observations, this is called a hypothesis. Experimentalists take this hypothesis and plan tests to see if it holds true. They then compete for funding based on the worthiness of the research. They run the tests and either get a positive result or a negative result. If it is negative the hypothesis is wrong. It takes a very large number of positive results in a number of situations to get the hypothesis to be considered a theory. If any negative results come up in the future the original data and that false result are investigated in order to work out if the negative result is correct. If it is the theory does not apply in that situation and a more complete theory is needed. As a result you get an more complete hypothesis and start again.

And Splitsecond, can I make a request?
Go away. Go Away and actruly make a real worm hole. Record the data. Write it up. And then once you've got more then just a bunch of theorys, then tell us whats possable and whats not.

It's not a bunch of theories, it's the theory of General Relativity. It has held true for nearly 100 years. It is the only theory to even allows for the solution of wormholes. Wormholes are the name of a phenomenon that can possibly happen under General Relativity. As a result the behaviour of a wormhole, if they exist, is known. Either General Relativity is correct or wormholes don't exist.

Here is an accurate analogy of the problem. I have a game called chess. Neither of us has ever played it but we've seen the board and I've seen the pawns and the queen move. There is this piece that moves in an L shape. I call it a knight. You believe there is the possibility of a knight who moves in an R shape. I tell you that a knight is defined under the rules of chess as a piece that moves in an L shape and so can't move in an R shape. You now critise me saying that I'm a fool for believing the rules of chess and that the rules of chess are wrong. If the rules of chess are wrong then there is no knight to move in an R shape in the first place.

[kymeric]

I don't get the point. There's no need to "prepare" people for reality...they'll either accept it or they won't. Still, I don't think there's a conspiracy going on.



This is true, though 6,000 years seems a bit arbitrary. We've come very far in a very short time, especially when compared with how long the Earth has been around.

If they dont accept it theyll run amok and kill/hurt themselves and others. The goverment has a legal responsibility to protect its citizens and as citizens we have a moral responsibility to protect ourselves/others.

Orson wells clearly showed we wernt ready 100 yrs ago cuz this didnt happen.

imho of course.

[Inthenite42]

I believe somebody has already stated something similiar but I would like to say that it was true. We have come farther in the past century than the previous 6000 years! I mean in 6000 years we went from stone men to super antique cars. Big, really big, but not as big as being able to making planes that can go Mach-6 and reaching the moon, and for example... the Iphone. Wireless calling with internet, text, games, touchscreen, camera and video, and a butt load of other stuff. We've also made missles and nuclear bombs. Our technology is increaing at an exponential rate! Thats why it may not be so impossible if we could find a source of energy.

[Jack_Bauer]

I believe somebody has already stated something similiar but I would like to say that it was true. We have come farther in the past century than the previous 6000 years! I mean in 6000 years we went from stone men to super antique cars. Big, really big, but not as big as being able to making planes that can go Mach-6 and reaching the moon, and for example... the Iphone. Wireless calling with internet, text, games, touchscreen, camera and video, and a butt load of other stuff. We've also made missles and nuclear bombs. Our technology is increaing at an exponential rate! Thats why it may not be so impossible if we could find a source of energy.

I heard somewhere that the Iphone alone has more computing power than the Apollo mission that made it to the moon in 1969. How cool is that!!!!

[Mealla McAllister]

I got a book about it yesterday, Die Stargate-Verschwoerung ("The Stargate Conspiracy") by Andreas von Rétyi (I don't if there's an English translation, I looked it up on the web and didn't find anything about it). It's about the question why military and intelligence are interested in archaeological excavations in Egypt.
I haven't read it, yet, I only know that the last chapter is called "And where's the Stargate?", so I don't in how much detail the author talks about an actual stargate but I suppose he only used it as an allegory for the military interest and more Area 51 conspiracy (he also wrote a book about that one).
I think most of the stuff in the book is full of unproven conspiracy theories, I will read it anyway, and I will let you know if there's something of interest. And now you can continue this interesting discussion, sorry for interrupting

[JedI Master of the Gate]

Here is an accurate analogy of the problem. I have a game called chess. Neither of us has ever played it but we've seen the board and I've seen the pawns and the queen move. There is this piece that moves in an L shape. I call it a knight. You believe there is the possibility of a knight who moves in an R shape. I tell you that a knight is defined under the rules of chess as a piece that moves in an L shape and so can't move in an R shape. You now critise me saying that I'm a fool for believing the rules of chess and that the rules of chess are wrong. If the rules of chess are wrong then there is no knight to move in an R shape in the first place.

That's a horrible analogy.
Other players and fans of the game have not only scene a Knight move in a L shape, but also moved said knight in said shape and could hence settle the problem. Which is completely unlike the current problem in which we have something (Wormholes) that has never truly been scene or done in any physical way other then a buch of numbers and letters written on a Blackboard or term paper.

Also on a side note: If I want to move a Knight in an R shape, the only thing thats going to stop me is my opponite/partner, and even then they can't truly stop me, only attempt too.

[Coela Bellatore]

Problems.
First Daniels not military, so when they yell "Do it Now, thats an Order" he can just ignore them. Secondly, the military higher ups wouldn't have been able to yell "Do it Now, thats an Order". Why? Because the only person that Daniel was in contact with at the time was Jacob/Selmak, and hell its not like he could have force Daniel to do it.

He's on a mission, under military command and is on the government payroll. I'm sure Daniel can't just tell Jack "Go **** yourself" and do what ever he wants. He's a government contractor and he'll have to listen to them. This is exactly my point, Stargate shows a lot of space bumbling basically with one or two people doing pretty much whatever they want with the fate of the universe in the balance. Its not the US Airforce saving the day, its Selmak and Daniel, something that wouldn't be useful for propaganda purposes.

[Splitsecond]

I believe somebody has already stated something similiar but I would like to say that it was true. We have come farther in the past century than the previous 6000 years! I mean in 6000 years we went from stone men to super antique cars. Big, really big, but not as big as being able to making planes that can go Mach-6 and reaching the moon, and for example... the Iphone. Wireless calling with internet, text, games, touchscreen, camera and video, and a butt load of other stuff. We've also made missles and nuclear bombs. Our technology is increaing at an exponential rate! Thats why it may not be so impossible if we could find a source of energy.

The ancient Greeks had mechanical robots that would follow a designed sequence of events that could be changed. They also had railroads and a steam engine. The Egyptians had worked out how to generate electricity. They had most of the fundamental technology of the industrial revolution but never thought to use it for anything useful. The programmable computer was from the 19th century but nobody saw the point. The machine gun was from the 17th century but people thought it was unsportsmanlike. The chinese tried to get into space centuries ago by strapping rockets to the leg of a chair. They had the basic idea right but did it wrongly. The rocket is a very old technology. The 20th century lead to the combination of good ideas, good materials, liberal funding and a few key discoveries. It's all thanks to the 2 world wars and the cold war. Computer technology is fast approaching the end of the exponential period, as is a lot of technology. The key discoveries from the start of the 20th century have been used the their physical limits. We need to make new materials.

I heard somewhere that the Iphone alone has more computing power than the Apollo mission that made it to the moon in 1969. How cool is that!!!!

That all depends on how you define computing power. An iphone could not be used to run the Apollo missions.

That's a horrible analogy.
Other players and fans of the game have not only scene a Knight move in a L shape, but also moved said knight in said shape and could hence settle the problem. Which is completely unlike the current problem in which we have something (Wormholes) that has never truly been scene or done in any physical way other then a buch of numbers and letters written on a Blackboard or term paper.

Also on a side note: If I want to move a Knight in an R shape, the only thing thats going to stop me is my opponite/partner, and even then they can't truly stop me, only attempt too.

There may be other species that have seen a wormhole and observed the behaviour of the wormhole, which has to follow from the theory of General Relativity. They may have already proven that wormholes don't exist. Wormholes only exist conceptually as a solution to the maths from General Relativity. This is what a lot of you seem to fail to grasp. Wormholes are possible solutions to General Relativity equations. They have no real physical meaning at this time. They may exist or they may not but they will be a result of General Relativity if they do exist.

But then you've broken the rules of chess and you're no longer playing chess. It still doesn't change the fact that if the universe is a game of chess, a knight will never move in an R shape.

[kymeric]

I got a book about it yesterday, Die Stargate-Verschwoerung ("The Stargate Conspiracy") by Andreas von Rétyi (I don't if there's an English translation, I looked it up on the web and didn't find anything about it). It's about the question why military and intelligence are interested in archaeological excavations in Egypt.
I haven't read it, yet, I only know that the last chapter is called "And where's the Stargate?", so I don't in how much detail the author talks about an actual stargate but I suppose he only used it as an allegory for the military interest and more Area 51 conspiracy (he also wrote a book about that one).
I think most of the stuff in the book is full of unproven conspiracy theories, I will read it anyway, and I will let you know if there's something of interest. And now you can continue this interesting discussion, sorry for interrupting

Ruins of an advanced first civilization (that make atlantis look like 15 seconds ago by comparison) full of ancienty knowledge and weapons imho

[crichtonx]

The ancient Greeks had mechanical robots that would follow a designed sequence of events that could be changed. They also had railroads and a steam engine. The Egyptians had worked out how to generate electricity. They had most of the fundamental technology of the industrial revolution but never thought to use it for anything useful. The programmable computer was from the 19th century but nobody saw the point. The machine gun was from the 17th century but people thought it was unsportsmanlike. The chinese tried to get into space centuries ago by strapping rockets to the leg of a chair. They had the basic idea right but did it wrongly. The rocket is a very old technology. The 20th century lead to the combination of good ideas, good materials, liberal funding and a few key discoveries. It's all thanks to the 2 world wars and the cold war. Computer technology is fast approaching the end of the exponential period, as is a lot of technology. The key discoveries from the start of the 20th century have been used the their physical limits. We need to make new materials.



That all depends on how you define computing power. An iphone could not be used to run the Apollo missions.



There may be other species that have seen a wormhole and observed the behaviour of the wormhole, which has to follow from the theory of General Relativity. They may have already proven that wormholes don't exist. Wormholes only exist conceptually as a solution to the maths from General Relativity. This is what a lot of you seem to fail to grasp. Wormholes are possible solutions to General Relativity equations. They have no real physical meaning at this time. They may exist or they may not but they will be a result of General Relativity if they do exist.

But then you've broken the rules of chess and you're no longer playing chess. It still doesn't change the fact that if the universe is a game of chess, a knight will never move in an R shape.

Splitsecond please stop commenting on a subject matter you know nothing about that you fail to grasp. Your opinion is not fact!! You have no credibility since you failed to provide documented proof of your claims when asked!!
Just because you view a stargate as two blackholes with a tunnel in between connecting them, doesn't make it so. The name wormhole is just a layman term that can be applied to many different things.
If you actually was a scientist you would understand that we gain knowledge by continuing testing, adding, and modifying what we know and come to understand. Just because we only observed an event to happen in only one situation, doesn't mean that event cannot happen in other situations. Our initial understanding was just not complete. I would have thought that you would have known that General Relativity is still being tested and many other things that we donot understand would come of this.
Also, you fail to comprehend is that a Stargate incorporates many different fields. As such, it would not fall under just an explanation of General Relativity as we currently understand it.

Just because something is unlikely isnot impossible.
Stargates are possible until proven otherwise through the scientific method.
Scientists once stated as fact that it was impossible to put a man on the moon thru calculations.
Scientists once stated that Paul Dirac's prediction of the positron was wrong.

Just because something is unlikely isnot impossible.
Just because we understand something one way, doesn't mean that we cannot modify or find a different way.
Stargates are possible until proven otherwise through the scientific method.

[Inthenite42]

The ancient Greeks had mechanical robots that would follow a designed sequence of events that could be changed. They also had railroads and a steam engine. The Egyptians had worked out how to generate electricity. They had most of the fundamental technology of the industrial revolution but never thought to use it for anything useful. The programmable computer was from the 19th century but nobody saw the point. The machine gun was from the 17th century but people thought it was unsportsmanlike. The chinese tried to get into space centuries ago by strapping rockets to the leg of a chair. They had the basic idea right but did it wrongly. The rocket is a very old technology. The 20th century lead to the combination of good ideas, good materials, liberal funding and a few key discoveries. It's all thanks to the 2 world wars and the cold war. Computer technology is fast approaching the end of the exponential period, as is a lot of technology. The key discoveries from the start of the 20th century have been used the their physical limits. We need to make new materials.



That all depends on how you define computing power. An iphone could not be used to run the Apollo missions.



There may be other species that have seen a wormhole and observed the behaviour of the wormhole, which has to follow from the theory of General Relativity. They may have already proven that wormholes don't exist. Wormholes only exist conceptually as a solution to the maths from General Relativity. This is what a lot of you seem to fail to grasp. Wormholes are possible solutions to General Relativity equations. They have no real physical meaning at this time. They may exist or they may not but they will be a result of General Relativity if they do exist.

But then you've broken the rules of chess and you're no longer playing chess. It still doesn't change the fact that if the universe is a game of chess, a knight will never move in an R shape.

You might want to check up on some of your facts. Especially on those that you quoted on me! Ancient Greeks with robots? Machine guns being unsportsmanlike? Computer? The only right thing was the rockets on the chair. And notice that they tried but we succeeded!