General Ship ( Relationship) Discussion

[VampyreWraith]

You weren't dreaming - that was me. I deleted it - it didn't come out quite right. Maybe I'll repost again when I figure out how to word my question.

The one where you kinda asked "What would shippers like to happen on a show once their favorite pairing(s) got together; basically storyline wise for their couple? How would they keep the relationship fresh and interesting without it being mostly little about day to day couple issues?" Or something like that. I thought what you wrote was worded well and not offensive. I was curious about it too.

No! I like it here!



Thanks for prompting me to do it I just hope I wasn't too harsh.



Now, see, I was all for Daniel gettin' some loving But I think every single female character on the show - except Sam - would have been a better choice.

I've been thinking about it and there's one more thing that turned me off that pairing: Vala was introduced as Daniel's love interest and she's never been allowed to grow into her own character. TPTB saw MS/CB chemistry in PU and never bothered to develop her character beyond that. The only real growth for her came from Adria/Tomin storyline and AFAIK (I can be wrong of course, so feel free to correct me) that was just a side effect of CB's pregnancy, not something that was planned for her beforehand. Vala as a character had a huge potential: rough childhood, slavery, being a Goa'uld host; someone who had a grudge against the Tok'ra that was totally justifiable, someone who knew all corners of the galaxy...but we know about this just from 1-2 throw away lines and none of those issues were ever explored b/c according to TPTB Vala coming on to Daniel would be more interesting.

I realise that it's a matter of taste and I don't mean to sound judgemental, but personally I prefer to get to know both characters and have them come into their own before any romantic entanglements between them are to be tackled. Vala never got the chance.



I'm inclined to agree. I think execution of their 'ship was horrible, probably worse than D/V, but I could see them together as a couple.

On a slightly different note, I thought I saw yesterday someone asking shippers about something but now I don't see that post anywhere Did I dream it? (It's entirely possible, I was half-asleep when I saw it anyway )

I think thats why I usually liked Vala the best when she was around Tomin and Adria, and the least when she was around Daniel.

[Petra]

Ha. And personally I would have far preferred a Sam/Daniel pairing to Sam/Jack. There was probably too much water under the bridge between the two of them by S9-10 to try it then, but certainly earlier in the series I don't think I'd have minded at all.

My shipping S/J obviously colours my perception but I think that even if I wasn't pro-S/J I still would have been against S/D, for million different reasons. Suffice to say, for me they are the most incompatible pairing of all in Stargate.

Well, and I don't disagree with that at all. I wish they had done all of that. But I think they could have done all of that and still have played with a D/V undercurrent along the way. I didn't want them together "right now" - they could have played with it for a few years and really earned it provided the show had kept getting renewed. In fact that was one of the problems I had with Unending - as much as I like the pairing, it felt just too rushed. They hadn't earned it yet. Not to mention Daniel's tirade. *flinches* But even with all of that, it doesn't negate my enjoyment of them in certain scenes earlier in the series. *shrugs* Each to their own.

I didn't mean to imply that it couldn't have been done. In fact had TPTB done it your way - developed Vala more (which, I imagine, would have kept Daniel more IC too), eased up on D/V, toned it down and gave their 'ship more time to develop instead of forcing it on audience I probably wouldn't have been an anti.

It occured to me that a lot of people who like D/V 'ship can't stand S/J and vice versa - folks who like or at least tolerate S/J have an allergic reaction to D/V. I don't mean to generalise because I realise there are fans who love both 'ships and fans who despise both, but in my personal experience it happens often enough to be worth noting. I don't have an opinion about it yet, I'm just throwing it out here because I find it very interesting, especially since some arguments against both 'ships tend to be very similar. Any thoughts?

You weren't dreaming - that was me. I deleted it - it didn't come out quite right. Maybe I'll repost again when I figure out how to word my question.

So I haven't lost it yet? What a relief!
More seriously, keeping in mind that I really was half-asleep, I don't remember anything offensive about your post. Just sayin'

[Killdeer]

My shipping S/J obviously colours my perception but I think that even if I wasn't pro-S/J I still would have been against S/D, for million different reasons. Suffice to say, for me they are the most incompatible pairing of all in Stargate.

*blinks* Most incompatible? Seriously?

Well ok. Everyone has their own perspective, and I won't argue.

It occured to me that a lot of people who like D/V 'ship can't stand S/J and vice versa - folks who like or at least tolerate S/J have an allergic reaction to D/V. I don't mean to generalise because I realise there are fans who love both 'ships and fans who despise both, but in my personal experience it happens often enough to be worth noting. I don't have an opinion about it yet, I'm just throwing it out here because I find it very interesting, especially since some arguments against both 'ships tend to be very similar. Any thoughts?

Er. Well. I don't know how much I can really say without running up against the GW rule about discussing other fans or fangroups. I do like to stay clear of the mods' hammer whenever possible. I will say though that the few times I have stuck my head in the D/V thread, there seemed to be a fair number of S/J shippers playing, just going off the sigs and avatars. So...*shrugs* I'm not sure what it looks like from the S/J side though.

Only speaking for myself - I know my arguments against both Jack/Sam and John/Teyla tend to be very similar - I have mostly similar issues with both pairings - not exact, but similar. But beyond that, I'm not sure I could venture a guess. Sorry.

So I haven't lost it yet? What a relief! More seriously, keeping in mind that I really was half-asleep, I don't remember anything offensive about your post. Just sayin'

Thanks. Maybe I will repost later.

[Killdeer]

The one where you kinda asked "What would shippers like to happen on a show once their favorite pairing(s) got together; basically storyline wise for their couple? How would they keep the relationship fresh and interesting without it being mostly little about day to day couple issues?" Or something like that. I thought what you wrote was worded well and not offensive. I was curious about it too.

Yes, that was it. I will reword and repost.

[Petra]

*blinks* Most incompatible? Seriously?

Umm, yeah. But to clarify: incompatible romantically. I LOVE their friendship.

And won't argue about it either, don't worry.

Er. Well. I don't know how much I can really say without running up against the GW rule about discussing other fans or fangroups. I do like to stay clear of the mods' hammer whenever possible. I will say though that the few times I have stuck my head in the D/V thread, there seemed to be a fair number of S/J shippers playing, just going off the sigs and avatars. So...*shrugs* I'm not sure what it looks like from the S/J side though.

I have absolutely no intention on discussing or even commenting on other fans. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Nope, I'm interested only in what is it about S/J and D/V pairings that makes fans of one of them often reject the other. That's it. And it's open question for everybody who cares to answer, not specifically you.

Thank you though for giving it a try.

[Killdeer]

I have absolutely no intention on discussing or even commenting on other fans. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Nope, I'm interested only in what is it about S/J and D/V pairings that makes fans of one of them often reject the other. That's it. And it's open question for everybody who cares to answer, not specifically you.

Thank you though for giving it a try.

Oh sorry for the misunderstanding. Thanks for clarifying. Yeah, I'm not sure I've observed the same thing you have, but I'll be interested to see what other people think.

[VampyreWraith]

Umm, yeah. But to clarify: incompatible romantically. I LOVE their friendship.

And won't argue about it either, don't worry.



I have absolutely no intention on discussing or even commenting on other fans. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Nope, I'm interested only in what is it about S/J and D/V pairings that makes fans of one of them often reject the other. That's it. And it's open question for everybody who cares to answer, not specifically you.

Thank you though for giving it a try.

This is just my opinion on the subject.
For me I liked s/j because it was kinda subtle and didn't interfere with the team interactions and was only in a few eps that I actually noticed it a lot. They were also both very well developed characters, and their characters never changed when they were together as opposed to when they were with anyone else. At least I never really noticed.
With D/V for me it was very in your face with all the innuendo and overt flirting, and it was pretty much always there. Vala always played up the rougue sex kitten act around Daniel; and that would cause Daniel to get overly annoyed with her and he would scold her or treat her like a naughty child. It would've been ok i guess if it didn't happen in almost every scene they had with each other. But thats just how i saw things. I admit they could've been cute if Vala was developed more and acted more serious around Daniel like in Counterstrike(I think thats the ep) Where Daniel mentions Sha re' while talking to Vala about Adria. I thought that was a nice scene with the two of them.

[Killdeer]

OK, here's my second run at posting this question.

I lurk at an unnamed other message board. Recently spoilers have emerged for an unnamed show that I watch which will be going into its third season. These spoilers have the shippers on this message board rather....perturbed.

This is not an isolated phenomenon - I've seen this kind of thing before with other shows. And I suppose I'm always a little confused at the shippers' deep dislike for the will they won't they game.

Now I like to think I ship (though I'm far from being a diehard shipper), but my favorite part has always been the friendship/getting together part. If getting the couple together has been a major part of the storyline, what happens after they get together? I personally don't have a lot of interest in married with children storylines. I remember watching Lois & Clark: The New Adventures, and while I adored them as a couple, I got really bored after they got married.

However, I'm thinking this may be a lack of imagination on my part. Just because I can't picture it doesn't mean it can't happen. So my question for the shippers is, if you're a shipper who doesn't like the will-they-won't-they dance and just want your couple together, what do you want to happen after that? What are you looking for once your couple is together? What kind of storylines do you picture going on once the romantic tension has been resolved?

So there is...hope I haven't offended any shippers. I'm just trying to get an idea of what's behind the drive to have the couple together before the end of the story.

[majorsal]

(snipped) So my question for the shippers is, if you're a shipper who doesn't like the will-they-won't-they dance and just want your couple together, what do you want to happen after that? What are you looking for once your couple is together? What kind of storylines do you picture going on once the romantic tension has been resolved?

great question.

i'll be speaking about sam/jack, my all-time fave ship couple -

Q1- So my question for the shippers is, if you're a shipper who doesn't like the will-they-won't-they dance and just want your couple together, what do you want to happen after that?

answer1: i don't mind the 'dance', so to speak, it's just how long it goes on that bothers me. but it's been going on *way* too long with s/j, and even though it's been hinted at that they did go somewhere together, relationship wise, i'd like 100 percent proof that they did. like, SEE them together in a romantic/intimate relationship way.

Q2- What are you looking for once your couple is together?

answer2: just seeing that they're happy and together. they've been through enough doubts and turmoils, so let them enjoy their togetherness.

Q3- What kind of storylines do you picture going on once the romantic tension has been resolved?

answer3: just because the romantic(sexual) tension's been resolved, doesn't mean the 'tension' between them is over. once the wanna-b couple actually becomes a couple, it sets off a whole new group of adjustments and conflicts. i find that interesting, even though i don't think the series/movies would ever focus that much on it.


it's just way over time to confirm this s/j issue. just because they both got rid of their significant others and went 'fishing' together doesn't mean they're IN a relationship together. i hope it's addressed, FINALLY fully on shown. oh please...

[Southern Red]

OK, here's my second run at posting this question.

I lurk at an unnamed other message board. Recently spoilers have emerged for an unnamed show that I watch which will be going into its third season. These spoilers have the shippers on this message board rather....perturbed.

This is not an isolated phenomenon - I've seen this kind of thing before with other shows. And I suppose I'm always a little confused at the shippers' deep dislike for the will they won't they game.

Now I like to think I ship (though I'm far from being a diehard shipper), but my favorite part has always been the friendship/getting together part. If getting the couple together has been a major part of the storyline, what happens after they get together? I personally don't have a lot of interest in married with children storylines. I remember watching Lois & Clark: The New Adventures, and while I adored them as a couple, I got really bored after they got married.

However, I'm thinking this may be a lack of imagination on my part. Just because I can't picture it doesn't mean it can't happen. So my question for the shippers is, if you're a shipper who doesn't like the will-they-won't-they dance and just want your couple together, what do you want to happen after that? What are you looking for once your couple is together? What kind of storylines do you picture going on once the romantic tension has been resolved?

So there is...hope I haven't offended any shippers. I'm just trying to get an idea of what's behind the drive to have the couple together before the end of the story.

I like the getting together part also. But as majorsal said, the waiting gets old. I lost interest in Mulder/Scully for that exact reason. But I continued to love Sheridan/Delenn for the entire show. The key is if it is done right. And all the excuses that writers give that it kills a show just tells me they lack imagination.

I would have been lovely to see Sam and Jack finally get together after so long. We could all breathe a sigh of relief (well, maybe not all of us) and get on with our lives. In fact taking any ship to a new level like that would open up a whole new world of possibilities for drama.

Aside from dragging out the UST too long, my next least favorite ship technique is the triangle. It just makes everybody unhappy and makes the characters look wishy washy. Just pick one, give them their ups and downs for a season or two and then get them together without the 3rd party to make it look like they might not end up together. We want to know that will happen eventually even though the journey will be perilous. I think Castle is going to be that way and that's why I love it so much. SGA did an absolutely horrible job with this one. Everybody was in a triangle and it all ended in tears.

[poundpuppy29]

I am going to jump in here on a couple points that have been brought up D&V I loved them entirely how they were I love both characters both together and separately as for CB I think she is an awesome actress who can create very different characters whom I love. I think you have something there Petra because I have noticed it too don't know why that is. There are a few who ship both but they can be few and far between. D&V are what got me hooked on SG to begin with in 2006 when I discovered love the banter and love the friendship part of it too the ep TPTB was a good example of the entire D&V ship for me it had banter and caring moments just like MM. I also liked Unending because both characters stopped playing games with each other and got real part of why I like D&V over S&J is because you see it and it has emotion it is not this subtle thing that you barely see.

I used to be a J&S shipper but I liked how they were in the first 3 seasons and WoO I don't like that in the TPTB mind Sam pined for Jack she is a beautiful intelligent woman who put her career first she wasn't pining for anyone. At the moment in my AU I have Sam with Agent Barrett because it worked in my mind but I do not want in to happen on screen for fear of the actor who plays him for what happened to the actor who played Pete he got hate mail.

I am also a Ronon & Teyla shipper and agree with alot of the points that have been made but they are an AU ship now but I like Teyla & Kaanan

[Ashizuri]

It occured to me that a lot of people who like D/V 'ship can't stand S/J and vice versa - folks who like or at least tolerate S/J have an allergic reaction to D/V. I don't mean to generalise because I realise there are fans who love both 'ships and fans who despise both, but in my personal experience it happens often enough to be worth noting. I don't have an opinion about it yet, I'm just throwing it out here because I find it very interesting, especially since some arguments against both 'ships tend to be very similar. Any thoughts?

I'll take a crack at this, and admit up front that while I'm not anti-ship, I greatly prefer my Stargate without it.

Starting with Sam/Jack, who I don't ship but can tolerate reasonably well. They were, for the most part, pretty low-key. Honestly, for 6.5 seasons I had absolutely no issues with them at all because most of the time I wasn't picking up on the shippy subtext. I still don't most of the time. Sam buying fruit loops in Continuum? Right over my head. Didn't pick up on it then and even though it's been pointed out I still don't see it. With Daniel and Vala, I felt like ship colored almost all of their interactions. In every episode it felt like they were pushing hard for the ship and it made it virtually impossible for me to ignore. Whether it was "meaningful glances" while watching other couple make out (Bad Guys) or blatant "Daniel is the only one who can reach her" moments (Momento Mori), I can't tune out the D/V ship.

Now, interestingly enough, I think MS/CB have faaaar more chemistry than AT/RDA, but I think that the types of chemistry are very different. What little natural chemistry AT and RDA have together always struck me as romantic in nature, whereas MS and CB was always more antagonistic and comedic. It was like watching a brother and sister flirt and it hit my "oh god no" button quite a bit.

And finally, and most importantly to me, is that I love Daniel Jackson. Everything about him. He's an amazing, amazing character and I absolutely hate the man he became around Vala. He became overly aggressive, viciously condescending, intentionally cruel, and just an all around jerk. And Vala, away from Daniel, was savvy and intelligent, a force to be reckoned with. I might not have liked her, but I had to respect her. Pair her with Daniel and she becomes this whole other person that I still don't like and now feel no respect for. Hair dryers on missions and whining about broken nails and demanding to be entertained. Basically, I hate the influence they have on each other (and the brief moments of absolute brilliance between them [Counterstrike] get lost in the BS). Sam and Jack didn't have massive character shifts when they got closer. Jack was still the same Jack with Sam as he was without her, and vice versa.

I feel like I come down harder on D/V on account of the fact that Vala is the only Stargate character I have ever hated, but man, no matter how I try I just can not warm up to her.

Sorry about the tl;dr.

[SGLAB]

[snipped for space]Now I like to think I ship (though I'm far from being a diehard shipper), but my favorite part has always been the friendship/getting together part. If getting the couple together has been a major part of the storyline, what happens after they get together? I personally don't have a lot of interest in married with children storylines. I remember watching Lois & Clark: The New Adventures, and while I adored them as a couple, I got really bored after they got married.

However, I'm thinking this may be a lack of imagination on my part. Just because I can't picture it doesn't mean it can't happen. So my question for the shippers is, if you're a shipper who doesn't like the will-they-won't-they dance and just want your couple together, what do you want to happen after that? What are you looking for once your couple is together? What kind of storylines do you picture going on once the romantic tension has been resolved?

So there is...hope I haven't offended any shippers. I'm just trying to get an idea of what's behind the drive to have the couple together before the end of the story.

I like shows where the ship isn't what the show is all about. Southern Red mentioned John and Delenn from B5. Their relationship wasn't what the show was all about. They each had their responsibilities and the relationship gradually grew. Once they were together we just saw small pieces of them being together. It was kinda like Peter and Elizabeth on White Collar in terms of how often we saw them together as a couple although Delenn played a bigger role B5 than Elizabeth does on WC.

And yeah there are pairs that are the two main characters of the show like on Castle but the show is about solving the crimes and the banter. There's no reason the banter and the crime solving has to go away or not be the main focus if Castle and Beckett got together during the show. Not that I think they're ready to get together by any means. And as far as Lois and Clark The New Adventures of Superman goes, personally I think they just ran out of ideas near the end. It's been awhile since I saw it but I don't recall their relationship being the main storyline. Each episode was about a big story or crime they investigated. In the end I think I felt the show became too much about their relationship.

And to bring this more on topic I'll use a pair I like : John/Elizabeth. Since SGA is suppose to be about the city of Atlantis and fighting the Wraith etc. the focus should be on John and Elizabeth performing their duties to the city and Earth.

It's not that I necessarily want a pair to be together immediately, I just want it to grow forward instead of back and forth or up and down like a yo-yo.

[Southern Red]

I like shows where the ship isn't what the show is all about. Southern Red mentioned John and Delenn from B5. Their relationship wasn't what the show was all about. They each had their responsibilities and the relationship gradually grew. Once they were together we just saw small pieces of them being together. It was kinda like Peter and Elizabeth on White Collar in terms of how often we saw them together as a couple although Delenn played a bigger role B5 than Elizabeth does on WC.

And yeah there are pairs that are the two main characters of the show like on Castle but the show is about solving the crimes and the banter. There's no reason the banter and the crime solving has to go away or not be the main focus if Castle and Beckett got together during the show. Not that I think they're ready to get together by any means. And as far as Lois and Clark The New Adventures of Superman goes, personally I think they just ran out of ideas near the end. It's been awhile since I saw it but I don't recall their relationship being the main storyline. Each episode was about a big story or crime they investigated. In the end I think I felt the show became too much about their relationship.

And to bring this more on topic I'll use a pair I like : John/Elizabeth. Since SGA is suppose to be about the city of Atlantis and fighting the Wraith etc. the focus should be on John and Elizabeth performing their duties to the city and Earth.

It's not that I necessarily want a pair to be together immediately, I just want it to grow forward instead of back and forth or up and down like a yo-yo.

ITA on all this. I forgot about Lois and Clark. I loved them in the early days but I also think they ran out of ideas near the end as so many shows do. B5 had a clear plan and an end goal. That made all the difference. And you know I agree 100% about John/Elizabeth. I always have said that nothing would have to change if they were together. Absolutely nothing. They would have made the same decisions, done the same things, had the same talks on the balcony. Why he could even have still sat on her desk. Just add a nice domestic moment here and there like they did with Teyla/Kanaan in BT and you've got a great example of a married couple that works in SciFi. Most fans of this ship didn't want to see all that stuff in the storage closets we write fics about. But I think TPTB only had one ship setting and that was extreme UST followed by bedroom stuff aimed at adolescent males. D/V and SGU are good examples of that.

I loved Daniel too until he met Vala. And I liked feisty irreverent Vala when she wasn't mooning over Daniel.

[Petra]

I admit they could've been cute if Vala was developed more and acted more serious around Daniel like in Counterstrike(I think thats the ep) Where Daniel mentions Sha re' while talking to Vala about Adria. I thought that was a nice scene with the two of them.

I just wanted to say that this scene is probably my favourite D/V scene ever. It was brilliant. If only they had behaved like that more often...

So my question for the shippers is, if you're a shipper who doesn't like the will-they-won't-they dance and just want your couple together, what do you want to happen after that? What are you looking for once your couple is together? What kind of storylines do you picture going on once the romantic tension has been resolved?

I’m not sure if I qualify to answer that when there’s only one couple I’ve ever shipped, but I’ll give it a try.

I agree with the others that it’s not really about not liking will-they-won’t-they dance but rather about how long the dance lasts. Sometimes years and years of UST are believable, but more often they are not and lead you to losing interest and becoming wary of it in the future.

Honestly, I don’t know what storylines I’d like to see once UST turns into RST. In majority of shows I watch that leads to marriage/break-up/kids storylines that rarely are interesting enough to hold my interest although it’s not a rule (Dexter is a good example of a show that does it right, mostly). I guess it all depends on the writers' skills. The good ones can do some pretty interesting things with an established relationship, those not so good eventually lose me as a viewer. In general though I prefer the couple to get together at the very end of the show.

I think you have something there Petra because I have noticed it too don't know why that is. There are a few who ship both but they can be few and far between.

I'm glad I'm not the only one seeing this.

The questions below are addressed to you, b/c so far you are the only D/V shipper taking part in the discussion, but not exclusively to you; I’d love to hear from anybody who’d like to answer.

D&V are what got me hooked on SG to begin with in 2006 when I discovered love the banter and love the friendship part of it too the ep TPTB was a good example of the entire D&V ship for me it had banter and caring moments just like MM. I also liked Unending because both characters stopped playing games with each other and got real part of why I like D&V over S&J is because you see it and it has emotion it is not this subtle thing that you barely see.

If you don’t mind me asking, what is your take on how Daniel and Vala change whenever they interact together? Or maybe they don’t change? Do you think that Daniel seems to be at times bordering on abusive towards her? Or absolutely not? Do you think Vala’s a well developed character? Why/why not?

I’m not attacking you or any D/V shippers and I tried to word my questions as neutrally as possible, if I failed my apologies. I’m just interested in how the other side, so to speak, sees the issues the antis have with this particular ‘ship.

I used to be a J&S shipper but I liked how they were in the first 3 seasons and WoO I don't like that in the TPTB mind Sam pined for Jack she is a beautiful intelligent woman who put her career first she wasn't pining for anyone.

Err…if she wasn’t pinning for anyone onscreen (which I agree with) why would you care what TPTB thought? (and how do you know what they thought anyway?)

But now I have another question. If Sam had been pining for Jack (while always being the one to turn him down, keep their distance, getting herself a boyfriend/fiancé while Jack was waiting for her) wouldn’t it mean that Vala had been pining for Daniel too? After all she always followed him around, was meekly taking all his c***, didn’t even try to find someone else (I loved her with Tomin and thought he was great for her, but sadly I never saw her romantically interested in him) when Daniel wasn’t showing any romantic interest in her. Isn’t it pining?

I apologise if I sound rude, I tend to come across as a jerk sometimes when I’m caught up in discussion. Honestly, the concept of female characters on Stargate pining for male characters has always baffled me and I find it even stranger when strong females who in fact try to move on are the ones accused of pining and females who cling to their men get a free pass. I think it’s fascinating and I’d love to hear what, in your (or anyone else’s) opinion, is the difference between Sam and Vala’s behaviour towards their love interests?

At the moment in my AU I have Sam with Agent Barrett because it worked in my mind but I do not want in to happen on screen for fear of the actor who plays him for what happened to the actor who played Pete he got hate mail.

Whoa. I’m the first to admit that *some* shippers went overboard with their hatred towards Pete and did some pretty awful things but come on. Martouf, Orlin, Joe and other Sam's suitors (and their respective actors) didn’t receive such treatment so assuming that Barret/PF would is a bit of a stretch, isn’t it?

Now, interestingly enough, I think MS/CB have faaaar more chemistry than AT/RDA, but I think that the types of chemistry are very different. What little natural chemistry AT and RDA have together always struck me as romantic in nature, whereas MS and CB was always more antagonistic and comedic. It was like watching a brother and sister flirt and it hit my "oh god no" button quite a bit.

That’s an interesting point. I think I agree with the bolded part (except IMO AT/RDA have gallons of chemistry ). Every time I said I didn’t see MS/CB chemistry I was thinking about it in romantic/sexual context; it’s just not there for me. But “antagonistic and comedic”, as you put it? Absolutely. This I can see.

And finally, and most importantly to me, is that I love Daniel Jackson

That’s another interesting point. Isn’t it that we – the shippers – tend to be more forgiving of all shortcomings of our OTP because it usually involves our favourite character(s)? Or on the contrary, we tend to be more critical of 'ship involving our favourite character?