General Ship ( Relationship) Discussion

[Ashizuri]

I just recently finally bought all of SG-1 on dvd. I rewatched S9/10 as I haven't seen many of those eps since the show ended. I suppose it's because I've mellowed out a bit in my view of the show, but those two seasons weren't as bad as I remember them, and neither was the D/V ship (it wasn't as overbearing as I remembered it to be). MS and CB had great rapport with each other, which is a pretty good selling point.

Butting in for a second here, but I have to say that I agree with this. I'll never ship D/V and I will always prefer them to be as far away from eachother as possible, but I don't hate it with the same passion that I used to. When the show was on I couldn't even stomach them in the same scene together, I'd skip channels for a few minutes, but now I can watch them and not shudder everytime they talk.

I think MS and CB had great comedic chemistry together, and I could have loved the mentor/mentee relationship between them, but almost interaction between them was ship-based (which is probably my snti D/V glasses coloring my perception, but it truly seemed that way). I think I could have loved Vala as a character had the D/V thing never happened. Poor Vala became the only character on Stargate that I have ever genuinely hated and it was all because of shipping.

EDIT: Oi. Petra, get out of my head! Can I just cosign everything that she wrote wrt D/V?

[VampyreWraith]

What about BT? He was real brotherly there talking about Kanaan? And in DV they were off together and having a nice talk I think. But yeah, they did seem to lose interest in them about that time. I think part of the reason we say so much less of Teyla may have been that they considered her story finished. In fact I believe JM said as much one time on his blog. But don't quote me on that.

I saw really good friends definately, I dunno if I'd call it brotherly, but maybe yes in BT. Yeah, maybe they did consider it finished, when I was watching it though, I thought that maybe since Rachel had a baby in real life that it might have had something to do with less Teyla. But I don't know if that actually had anything to do with it.

[VampyreWraith]

Butting in for a second here, but I have to say that I agree with this. I'll never ship D/V and I will always prefer them to be as far away from eachother as possible, but I don't hate it with the same passion that I used to. When the show was on I couldn't even stomach them in the same scene together, I'd skip channels for a few minutes, but now I can watch them and not shudder everytime they talk.

I think MS and CB had great comedic chemistry together, and I could have loved the mentor/mentee relationship between them, but almost interaction between them was ship-based (which is probably my snti D/V glasses coloring my perception, but it truly seemed that way). I think I could have loved Vala as a character had the D/V thing never happened. Poor Vala became the only character on Stargate that I have ever genuinely hated and it was all because of shipping.

EDIT: Oi. Petra, get out of my head! Can I just cosign everything that she wrote wrt D/V?

This is basically how I feel about D/V.
And I agree with Petra too especially in that I also felt that Daniel and Vala's characters seemed to change when they were in a scene together, and everyone else seemed to be excluded. That didn't help me like the pairing at all.
I can stand them more now though after second and sometimes third viewings.

[Southern Red]

I saw really good friends definately, I dunno if I'd call it brotherly, but maybe yes in BT. Yeah, maybe they did consider it finished, when I was watching it though, I thought that maybe since Rachel had a baby in real life that it might have had something to do with less Teyla. But I don't know if that actually had anything to do with it.

I think it did because I know they said in The Queen Rachel was very tired and they did less fighting. So yeah, I think the last two years of her characterization had a lot to do with her real life situation.

[LoneStar1836]

As to the question of what the topic of the thread is. I would assume that it is perfectly acceptable to discuss any ship from the Stargate universe in this thread. I know this thread was started before SGA and SGU, but I consider it to be a catchall thread where both sides of a shipping debate can post opinions.

Okay, I had every intention of not posting here untill this post:

Well thanks for commenting.

I tried to have a positive attitude going into S9/10, but came away fairly disgusted. I was rather apathetic when the show ended. Though three years later and after rewatching those final two seasons, I'm now sad that it really is over.

Anyway....

I did think that when Daniel and Vala were paired off, they did tend to go OTT with the acting which was one of the many things that bothered me. I despised Prometheus Unbound way back then, and I still despise it today. Maybe not quite as much, but the silliness of that episode and because I was so excited to have CB on the show and she was given that...slapstick, juvenile humor. It drove me crazy. So that episode left a bad taste in my mouth for anything Daniel/Vala related because the ep was so over the top. I know it was intended to be that way but bleh, that was one of the things that was starting to really bother me about seasons 7 and 8 of SG-1.

Like I said, I've mellowed in my attitude towards the show...a lot. So while I'm not on the D/V bandwagon, it doesn't really bother me (almost a non issue) in the show as much as it used to.

As for D/V....I actually haven't rewatched those last two seasons, so you all have the advantage of me in that. I admit though that I am biased toward Vala - Claudia Black is probably my favorite actress ever, and I thought she had amazing chemistry with Michael, as well as with everyone else.

I love CB as well. Farscape is my all time favorite show ever. It made it all the more painful for me to dislike things about her character because I so wanted to support her...and Ben as well. Though I do admit that, at the time for me, Vala, did become a highlight of those final two seasons amidst all the other things that bothered me about those seasons. While Ben got saddle with a character that I so wanted to love but just couldn't except for every now and then. Even after this rewatch, the same things that bothered me about his character are still too much to ignore.

Butting in for a second here, but I have to say that I agree with this. I'll never ship D/V and I will always prefer them to be as far away from eachother as possible, but I don't hate it with the same passion that I used to. When the show was on I couldn't even stomach them in the same scene together, I'd skip channels for a few minutes, but now I can watch them and not shudder everytime they talk.

Well my aversion to them wasn't that bad back then.

I think MS and CB had great comedic chemistry together, and I could have loved the mentor/mentee relationship between them, but almost interaction between them was ship-based (which is probably my snti D/V glasses coloring my perception, but it truly seemed that way). I think I could have loved Vala as a character had the D/V thing never happened. Poor Vala became the only character on Stargate that I have ever genuinely hated and it was all because of shipping.

I think I had a pair of those glasses back then as well. The original prescription for them was for J/S ship though.

I was actually rather excited about S9 because of the prospect of no J/S ship. Honestly I was glad RDA was leaving the show in part because of that. Sadly I had gotten to the point that I was hating my once favorite character.

[Killdeer]

I sent a message to the mods yesterday regarding the topic - I assume if they think there needs to be a change, they'll weigh in.

As regarding D/V ship.....honestly, I see what people are saying, but I still hold to what I said before. Yeah, there were definitely problems with execution - I would never contest that. I wish they'd toned down some of the OTT stuff, and mixed the team up a little more. But....I like Daniel and I like Vala both. I genuinely enjoyed their chemistry (although I'm fully aware that chemistry is something that is very much in the eye of the beholder). And Daniel hadn't had a love interest for....what....since before he ascended, IIRC. Jack and Sam presumably had each other, Teal'c had Ishta (not to mention Krista). Why should Daniel be the only one of the old team left alone?

MMV of course on this - I know it will. That's ok. And as with McKeller, I will never contest that there were problems with execution....just another one to chalk up to TPTB's writing failure regarding ships in general. But the pairing still had some moments that I really enjoyed. The two I mentioned before I think are what stands out to me - Daniel talking her down at the end of Momento Mori, talking her into trusting him. And then when she's starting to fall apart at what's going on in The Powers That Be, and him just quietly coming and sitting beside her. So...my two cents, for what they're worth.

[Killdeer]

What about BT? He was real brotherly there talking about Kanaan? And in DV they were off together and having a nice talk I think. But yeah, they did seem to lose interest in them about that time. I think part of the reason we say so much less of Teyla may have been that they considered her story finished. In fact I believe JM said as much one time on his blog. But don't quote me on that.

I think I first started to think of Ronon/Teyla as more brother/sister in the S4 episode Reunion. There was just was a shift in "vibes" for me. Nothing I could ever quantify or prove or anything. It just...felt different somehow.

I still have a sekrit theory though that Ronon was carrying a torch for her but never did anything about it, first because he thought she was interested in John, and then because he found out about Kanaan. The way he acted with her in BAMSR came across to me as just a tinge regretful. But that's TOTALLY my Ronon/Teyla shipper glasses talking there - LOL! - so take it for what it's worth, which is nothing. I also like to think that Lorne had a crush on Teyla too....

In all fairness, though, much as I liked the idea of the Ronon/Teyla ship, I must confess that they too would have suffered from cultural differences that they would have had to find some way to resolve. Not as many as John and Teyla perhaps, but we did see in The Return that Ronon would not have been happy to settle down to the Athosians' quiet lifestyle any more than John would.

[majorsal]

Regarding SG1 ships:
I didn't mind the way things went with Sam and Jack. They could've mentioned Sam and Jack having gotten together during season 9 or after in a more overt way , but it really didn't bother me.

that's *one* of the reasons for my bitterness in season 9/10. i'm hoping that confirmation of them getting together is being saved for the 3rd sg1 movie. if it's not done there, i don't see them doing it ever.

[VampyreWraith]

I think I first started to think of Ronon/Teyla as more brother/sister in the S4 episode Reunion. There was just was a shift in "vibes" for me. Nothing I could ever quantify or prove or anything. It just...felt different somehow.

I still have a sekrit theory though that Ronon was carrying a torch for her but never did anything about it, first because he thought she was interested in John, and then because he found out about Kanaan. The way he acted with her in BAMSR came across to me as just a tinge regretful. But that's TOTALLY my Ronon/Teyla shipper glasses talking there - LOL! - so take it for what it's worth, which is nothing. I also like to think that Lorne had a crush on Teyla too....

In all fairness, though, much as I liked the idea of the Ronon/Teyla ship, I must confess that they too would have suffered from cultural differences that they would have had to find some way to resolve. Not as many as John and Teyla perhaps, but we did see in The Return that Ronon would not have been happy to settle down to the Athosians' quiet lifestyle any more than John would.

With Ronon/Teyla i saw a potential for a romantic relationship based on the character interactions but it just settled into a really good friendship(I guess it can be considered brotherly sometimes) once Ronon realized Teyla had feelings for Kanaan since Ronon seemed to know about him in BAMSR.
I liked the idea of Ronon and Teyla because they seemed to compliment each other, where Ronon was act first think about it later; Teyla was the opposite. I actually saw chemistry between them and a lot of mutual respect; whereas I didn't see anything but friendship born out of being team members between John and Teyla.
I prefered Teyla/Kanaan for story purposes with the way things went onscreen with sga though.

I think it did because I know they said in The Queen Rachel was very tired and they did less fighting. So yeah, I think the last two years of her characterization had a lot to do with her real life situation.

yeah, i heard that she was having to go feed her baby between takes or something, even while she was in the wraith queen outfit and makeup.

that's *one* of the reasons for my bitterness in season 9/10. i'm hoping that confirmation of them getting together is being saved for the 3rd sg1 movie. if it's not done there, i don't see them doing it ever.

Since the movie is supposed to be Jack centered, I don't see any reason why they shouldn't, especially with all the hints they dropped about a relationship going on between them during the last seasons of sg1 and even while sam was on Atlantis.

[Southern Red]

I think I first started to think of Ronon/Teyla as more brother/sister in the S4 episode Reunion. There was just was a shift in "vibes" for me. Nothing I could ever quantify or prove or anything. It just...felt different somehow.

I still have a sekrit theory though that Ronon was carrying a torch for her but never did anything about it, first because he thought she was interested in John, and then because he found out about Kanaan. The way he acted with her in BAMSR came across to me as just a tinge regretful. But that's TOTALLY my Ronon/Teyla shipper glasses talking there - LOL! - so take it for what it's worth, which is nothing. I also like to think that Lorne had a crush on Teyla too....

In all fairness, though, much as I liked the idea of the Ronon/Teyla ship, I must confess that they too would have suffered from cultural differences that they would have had to find some way to resolve. Not as many as John and Teyla perhaps, but we did see in The Return that Ronon would not have been happy to settle down to the Athosians' quiet lifestyle any more than John would.

Yeah I agree there was a shift in S4. I'm not sure when I noticed it though. I didn't see what you did regarding Ronon and regret. I thought he seemed genuinely happy for her. And the fact that he knew all about Kanaan, along with Elizabeth as shown in GitM, just adds to the sense that the writers failed to develop the Teyla/Kanaan ship properly. I've heard some people say that Ronon may have been asking John if he was interested in Teyla in Sunday for personal reasons. *shrugs* I'm not sure about that. He may have just wanted his two friends to be together.

And if Ronon would find it hard to settle down to a life of farming with the Athosians, it would really be hard to imagine someone from Earth doing the same thing.

[Killdeer]

I've heard some people say that Ronon may have been asking John if he was interested in Teyla in Sunday for personal reasons. *shrugs* I'm not sure about that.

You know, when they started that conversation, that's exactly what I was thinking....but then the conversation didn't go the way I thought it was going to.

[Southern Red]

You know, when they started that conversation, that's exactly what I was thinking....but then the conversation didn't go the way I thought it was going to.

Tell me about it. The whole thing sounded like a couple of 12 year old girls at a slumber party. LOL For a man who is so private and won't talk much about anything, John sure was chatty about dating. It must have been the beer.

[VampyreWraith]

Yeah I agree there was a shift in S4. I'm not sure when I noticed it though. I didn't see what you did regarding Ronon and regret. I thought he seemed genuinely happy for her. And the fact that he knew all about Kanaan, along with Elizabeth as shown in GitM, just adds to the sense that the writers failed to develop the Teyla/Kanaan ship properly. I've heard some people say that Ronon may have been asking John if he was interested in Teyla in Sunday for personal reasons. *shrugs* I'm not sure about that. He may have just wanted his two friends to be together.

And if Ronon would find it hard to settle down to a life of farming with the Athosians, it would really be hard to imagine someone from Earth doing the same thing.

The first time i noticed a sceen that i thought might be considered brotherly was in BAMSR when he walked her to the infirmary after John yelled at her. He did seem genuinely happy for Teyla and Kanaan.
I thought it was just Ronon wanting to see his friends together too, or at least just wanting to see what John would say.
Yeah, I can't really picture our Sheppard as farmer John either. I could never see him pulling a Daniel Jackson and staying behind with someone he cared for. I'd see him as someone trying to convince her to go back with him and it ending in heartbreak.
Thats why I think Kanaan is a good fit for Teyla. She could go out and travel the stars fight Wraith with the people of Earth but after all is said and done I think Teyla would want to remain with her people since they are important to her. (unless the writers plan on killing them all off in the movie that might never hapen; I would be very dissapointed and wouldn't want to see that)

[Petra]

EDIT: Oi. Petra, get out of my head!

No! I like it here!

Well thanks for commenting.

Thanks for prompting me to do it I just hope I wasn't too harsh.

And Daniel hadn't had a love interest for....what....since before he ascended, IIRC. Jack and Sam presumably had each other, Teal'c had Ishta (not to mention Krista). Why should Daniel be the only one of the old team left alone?

Now, see, I was all for Daniel gettin' some loving But I think every single female character on the show - except Sam - would have been a better choice.

I've been thinking about it and there's one more thing that turned me off that pairing: Vala was introduced as Daniel's love interest and she's never been allowed to grow into her own character. TPTB saw MS/CB chemistry in PU and never bothered to develop her character beyond that. The only real growth for her came from Adria/Tomin storyline and AFAIK (I can be wrong of course, so feel free to correct me) that was just a side effect of CB's pregnancy, not something that was planned for her beforehand. Vala as a character had a huge potential: rough childhood, slavery, being a Goa'uld host; someone who had a grudge against the Tok'ra that was totally justifiable, someone who knew all corners of the galaxy...but we know about this just from 1-2 throw away lines and none of those issues were ever explored b/c according to TPTB Vala coming on to Daniel would be more interesting.

I realise that it's a matter of taste and I don't mean to sound judgemental, but personally I prefer to get to know both characters and have them come into their own before any romantic entanglements between them are to be tackled. Vala never got the chance.

And as with McKeller, I will never contest that there were problems with execution...

I'm inclined to agree. I think execution of their 'ship was horrible, probably worse than D/V, but I could see them together as a couple.

On a slightly different note, I thought I saw yesterday someone asking shippers about something but now I don't see that post anywhere Did I dream it? (It's entirely possible, I was half-asleep when I saw it anyway )

[Killdeer]

Now, see, I was all for Daniel gettin' some loving But I think every single female character on the show - except Sam - would have been a better choice.

Ha. And personally I would have far preferred a Sam/Daniel pairing to Sam/Jack. There was probably too much water under the bridge between the two of them by S9-10 to try it then, but certainly earlier in the series I don't think I'd have minded at all.

The only real growth for her came from Adria/Tomin storyline and AFAIK (I can be wrong of course, so feel free to correct me) that was just a side effect of CB's pregnancy, not something that was planned for her beforehand. Vala as a character had a huge potential: rough childhood, slavery, being a Goa'uld host; someone who had a grudge against the Tok'ra that was totally justifiable, someone who knew all corners of the galaxy...but we know about this just from 1-2 throw away lines and none of those issues were ever explored b/c according to TPTB Vala coming on to Daniel would be more interesting.

Well, and I don't disagree with that at all. I wish they had done all of that. But I think they could have done all of that and still have played with a D/V undercurrent along the way. I didn't want them together "right now" - they could have played with it for a few years and really earned it provided the show had kept getting renewed. In fact that was one of the problems I had with Unending - as much as I like the pairing, it felt just too rushed. They hadn't earned it yet. Not to mention Daniel's tirade. *flinches* But even with all of that, it doesn't negate my enjoyment of them in certain scenes earlier in the series. *shrugs* Each to their own.

On a slightly different note, I thought I saw yesterday someone asking shippers about something but now I don't see that post anywhere Did I dream it? (It's entirely possible, I was half-asleep when I saw it anyway )

You weren't dreaming - that was me. I deleted it - it didn't come out quite right. Maybe I'll repost again when I figure out how to word my question.