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    Originally posted by majorsal
    Thank you, Jace. For all of it.

    Sally

    You're welcome.

    Jace
    Jace


    When I was young, I used to admire intelligent people; as I grow older, I admire kind people.

    Abraham Joshua Heschel

    Comment


      I really, really, really hope they don't do a ninth season if they can't 110% make sure that it's done well. And by well, I mean they don't do any of the following:

      1) Make Jack-lite eps even lighter, but still having his name before the title (technicalities such as these irk me from time to time).

      2) Finish the shippy saga and make him a stay-at-home husband with the picket fence and the golden retriever... not realistic, and not Stargate-like, at all!

      3) NO WEDDINGS! NONE! I don't want to see Ry'ac get married, I don't wanna see Teal'c get married, and even (sorry my fellow shippers), I don't want to see Sam and Jack get married... unless it's in the movie... But apparently that won't happen, because someone had the "bright idea" to make it take place in the second season. Phooey.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Jace021903
        Sally,

        I have to give you a lot of credit for being honest about your feelings without being insulting.


        I would call myself a Sam/Pete shipper although I don't hold out a lot of hope.
        I even wrote a fanfic--my one and only--that included the pairing.

        I have to admit that I don't care for J/S ship at all for lots of reasons. But if I did, maybe I wouldn't be open to anyone else with Sam including Pete.

        I have never shipped (or slashed) for anyone else on the show ever--I was always firmly in the noromo camp. (Well, maybe for Daniel/Sha're a little)

        From the first scenes, I saw a chemistry between the characters that I liked and have never seen for Sam with any of the numerous love interests that they have given her over the years.

        So, speaking for myself, that's why I like Sam/Pete.

        I can see where you are coming from though.

        Jace
        Hi.It isn't really a reply to anything cos I only want to ask question.Please remember that I'm totally new to this thread and don't want to offend anybody.
        The question is for the anti-shippers, I guess.
        I've been reading various threads and several times come across the statement that "Sam and Jack together are revolting".There has never been any explanation, any reasons.So I would like to ask why people think that S&J ship is so revolting?Thanks in advance for the reply.
        There's a good chance this opinion is shared by Ashizuri
        sigpic
        awesome sig by Josiane

        Comment


          Originally posted by col aga
          So I would like to ask why people think that S&J ship is so revolting?Thanks in advance for the reply.
          Have you tried reading the Anti-ship discussion thread? That contains a whole plethora of reasons from a variety of people on why they don't like the idea of Sam and Jack together. This thread, too, has quite a bit of logical or semi-logical reasoning. I can't point you to specific posts, but if you're serious enough about the question, the answers are already here. All you have to do is find them.

          Comment


            Originally posted by col aga
            Hi.It isn't really a reply to anything cos I only want to ask question.Please remember that I'm totally new to this thread and don't want to offend anybody.
            The question is for the anti-shippers, I guess.
            I've been reading various threads and several times come across the statement that "Sam and Jack together are revolting".There has never been any explanation, any reasons.So I would like to ask why people think that S&J ship is so revolting?Thanks in advance for the reply.
            I outlined why I don't like J/S ship in the anti-ship thread. I won't post it here (not conductive to discussion) but just go to June 21st.
            I'm a girl! A girly girly girl!

            Okay, you got me. I can't accept change. This message may look like it was typed on a computer and posted on the internet, but it is actually cave drawings delivered by smoke signals.

            Naquada Enhanced Chastity Belts -SG1 edition. On sale now! Heck, I'll give them away

            Daniel Jackson Appreciation and Discussion -because he's more than pretty

            http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=89


            Daniel Jackson: The Beacon of Hope and The Man Who Opened the Stargate

            Comment


              Originally posted by Hubble
              While I don't have the articles stashed away in my house as evidence of "proof," I distinctly remember reading the same articles mentioned by DQ1. What she relayed regarding the wishes of MS at the time was exactly what I remember reading. I got the same sense/interpretation that she did.

              Since I don't post here often at all, I have zip credibility, so don't take my word for it. But if you are interested in reading for yourself what he said, you can easily do some research and find the material.

              Interesting discussion on both sides.

              Hubble
              Dark Queen mentioned the interviews where he said he wanted Daniel to be a bit 'Darker' and to end the Sha're storyline. Neither of these suggest to me at all that he wanted to drop the friendship angle between Daniel and Jack. If you are saying, as Dark Queen did, that the lack of friendship moments between the two is down to Michael Shanks, then I really need more evidence than a quote that he wanted the character to be darker as that does not mean 'no friendship moments' to me.

              I do know that it was said before the start of Season 7 that Daniel's relationship with Jack might be less spoken - that a lot of things no longer needed to be said between the two because of the history they had. But those changes to the characters were down to the writers not Michael Shanks.

              For me, there is nothing as good as a really great buddy-buddy TV show. The Professionals, Starsky and Hutch, Miami Vice, Mash (Hawkeye and Trapper, and Hawkeye and Honeycut) the list goes on. That male-male friendship (and I am not a slasher) makes, for me, great TV. And movies - the Lord of the Rings for example.

              There's another reason these TV shows and movies all do it for me - they all have close knit teams as well. And while Buddy-Buddy is great, the team aspect is crucial to a long running show/movie.

              So when they have a character like Jack, played by an actor like RDA who only has a certain amount of screen time to give, and they use that screen time with just one character, it does lessen the interest of the show for me. Considerably.

              And for other people too - except for people who are interested mainly in his interactions with that one character. I suspect that if that one character had been Daniel instead of Sam, the conversations would have been IDENTICAL just swapping the names around, and slash & ship.

              I don't think the fans would have become quite so polarised if they had handled RDA's appearances in S7 better. From the four episodes I've seen of S8, they have done just that, and I realised that I enjoyed those more than any S7 episode.

              I can't help but wonder if I would have remained ambivelant to ship if they hadn't handled S7 the way they did? As it is, I am finding myself hoping that they don't put the two of them together, whereas before that I wasn't fussed either way.
              sigpic

              Comment


                Originally posted by GateGipsy
                For me, there is nothing as good as a really great buddy-buddy TV show. The Professionals, Starsky and Hutch, Miami Vice, Mash (Hawkeye and Trapper, and Hawkeye and Honeycut) the list goes on. That male-male friendship (and I am not a slasher) makes, for me, great TV. And movies - the Lord of the Rings for example.
                Me too. To add to your list, Quantum Leap, Homicide (Pembleton and Bayliss), The OC (don't laugh, it's a good show).


                I can't help but wonder if I would have remained ambivelant to ship if they hadn't handled S7 the way they did? As it is, I am finding myself hoping that they don't put the two of them together, whereas before that I wasn't fussed either way.
                Before season 7, ship was something I didn't see, and if brought up, I would mildly remark that they wouldn't let them together anyway, and that I didn't see any chemistry between them. After season 7, I've become rabidly anti-ship.
                I'm a girl! A girly girly girl!

                Okay, you got me. I can't accept change. This message may look like it was typed on a computer and posted on the internet, but it is actually cave drawings delivered by smoke signals.

                Naquada Enhanced Chastity Belts -SG1 edition. On sale now! Heck, I'll give them away

                Daniel Jackson Appreciation and Discussion -because he's more than pretty

                http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=89


                Daniel Jackson: The Beacon of Hope and The Man Who Opened the Stargate

                Comment


                  Originally posted by GateGipsy

                  For me, there is nothing as good as a really great buddy-buddy TV show. The Professionals, Starsky and Hutch, Miami Vice, Mash (Hawkeye and Trapper, and Hawkeye and Honeycut) the list goes on. That male-male friendship (and I am not a slasher) makes, for me, great TV. And movies - the Lord of the Rings for example.

                  So when they have a character like Jack, played by an actor like RDA who only has a certain amount of screen time to give, and they use that screen time with just one character, it does lessen the interest of the show for me. Considerably.


                  Yes, yes, yes and yes.
                  Jace


                  When I was young, I used to admire intelligent people; as I grow older, I admire kind people.

                  Abraham Joshua Heschel

                  Comment


                    GateGipsy, I wanted to address your comment about being a fan of male/male friendships, but not being a slasher. Is it okay if I copy that part into the thread about Jack and Daniel friendship, because it really has nothing to do with ship. Just something I've observed.
                    I'm a girl! A girly girly girl!

                    Okay, you got me. I can't accept change. This message may look like it was typed on a computer and posted on the internet, but it is actually cave drawings delivered by smoke signals.

                    Naquada Enhanced Chastity Belts -SG1 edition. On sale now! Heck, I'll give them away

                    Daniel Jackson Appreciation and Discussion -because he's more than pretty

                    http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=89


                    Daniel Jackson: The Beacon of Hope and The Man Who Opened the Stargate

                    Comment


                      GategrrlAnd I suppose the reason it's S/J is becuz the "ship" is all in Sam's head, and Jack is as unresponsive to her as an ice cube?

                      Okay, in line with the question posed by Madeline, that positions are not inconsistent unless held by the same posters, I want to ask you something. (Before doing that, I will note that, yes, I have seen posts since season five from anti-shippers claiming that ship was dead and they were assured of this by the PTB and Hank Cohen--and then saw the same posters turn around, during the mid-season 7 promos with the kiss and yell that ship has been ruining the show. It seems to me that if something has been dead all this time, it couldn't have ruined anything! However, in light of the GW rules, no names from other forums and lists will be named here.)

                      So, what I wanted to ask you is this: since you say that you don't see any ship at all from Jack's POV--that Sam is making it all up--and that Jack is "unresponsive" and shows nothing more for Sam than he does for any other member of his team, then I have to assume that you disagree with Brihana. She feels that ship has damaged the friendship between Jack and Daniel (among other things); I think that any friendship hits some rocky patches and I feel that there are other reasons for any such patches we might have seen in the show.

                      If you do not see any special or romantic feelings on Jack's part toward Sam, then you also don't feel that ship has diminished Jack's relationship with Daniel in any way, since no ship exists on Jack's side, correct? Do you even see any change in the friendship between Jack and Daniel, and if so--since it cannot be related to Sam, as you don't believe Jack cares for her in that way--to what do you ascribe the change?

                      (BTW, you say that the "relationship" is all in Sam's head. I don't see that Sam believes there *is* a relationship. No shipper I know would suggest that Sam and Jack are in a relationship in the show; we merely hold that the feelings between are what is canonical. If shippers are in the mood for something more, they read fanfic. Fanfic is where fans go to fantasize over the non-canonical things, like an overt relationship between S/J. Or slash.)


                      J.
                      Last edited by DarkQuee1; 31 August 2004, 08:43 PM. Reason: because I'll keep doing it until I get it right!
                      "He's an amazing man. After everything he's done, he's still modest. Quite self-effacing actually. He even likes people to think he's not as smart as he is. Bottom line, he's an incredibly strong leader who's given more to this program than any man has given to anything I can imagine."


                      Comment


                        Originally posted by GateGipsy
                        Dark Queen mentioned the interviews where he said he wanted Daniel to be a bit 'Darker' and to end the Sha're storyline. Neither of these suggest to me at all that he wanted to drop the friendship angle between Daniel and Jack. If you are saying, as Dark Queen did, that the lack of friendship moments between the two is down to Michael Shanks, then I really need more evidence than a quote that he wanted the character to be darker as that does not mean 'no friendship moments' to me.

                        I never said he wanted to "drop the friendship angle" at all. I said that he wanted his character to get darker--and it is my opinion that part of that slide on Daniel's part toward the darker side of his character (after FIAD), a side all people have, resulted in greater friction between Jack and Daniel. As I saw some of the scenes in eps during that period, I saw Daniel instigating some of the problems that arose between them. I'm not saying that you have to see it the same way, but that's how it hit me.

                        I am also not suggesting that MS gave them a blueprint for how to handle this arc. He merely made 2 requests; after that, it was up to the creative staff how to work it into episodes. I was pointing out merely that the arc was a way of following through on MS' request.

                        PErsonally, I liked the arc because I thought it added an interesting element to Daniel's story. While I didn't always find Daniel likeable during the arc--as a result of some of his actions or behavior--I did find him interesting. And I saw a definitive change, a beginning of a return to the considerably less rocky relationship between Jack and Daniel, after AP. They still argued, but they were back to arguing in a manner that indicated that they respected each other.


                        J.
                        "He's an amazing man. After everything he's done, he's still modest. Quite self-effacing actually. He even likes people to think he's not as smart as he is. Bottom line, he's an incredibly strong leader who's given more to this program than any man has given to anything I can imagine."


                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Dani347
                          I outlined why I don't like J/S ship in the anti-ship thread. I won't post it here (not conductive to discussion) but just go to June 21st.
                          I just wanted to say thanks to both you and ShadowMaat.I'm gonna check this out now.
                          There's a good chance this opinion is shared by Ashizuri
                          sigpic
                          awesome sig by Josiane

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Dani347
                            GateGipsy, I wanted to address your comment about being a fan of male/male friendships, but not being a slasher. Is it okay if I copy that part into the thread about Jack and Daniel friendship, because it really has nothing to do with ship. Just something I've observed.
                            Sure you can. Is the thread in this folder?
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by DarkQuee1
                              |I never said he wanted to "drop the friendship angle" at all. I said that he wanted his character to get darker--and it is my opinion that part of that slide on Daniel's part toward the darker side of his character (after FIAD), a side all people have, resulted in greater friction between Jack and Daniel. As I saw some of the scenes in eps during that period, I saw Daniel instigating some of the problems that arose between them. I'm not saying that you have to see it the same way, but that's how it hit me.
                              The post I was responding to is now way way way back in this thread! But it was part of a discussion you were having about the changes between the friendship between Jack and Daniel. And in it you said that the changes were at Michael's instigation. That lead me to believe you meant the changes to the friendship, so I'm glad we've had this discussion and cleared that up


                              Originally posted by DarkQuee1
                              PErsonally, I liked the arc because I thought it added an interesting element to Daniel's story. While I didn't always find Daniel likeable during the arc--as a result of some of his actions or behavior--I did find him interesting. And I saw a definitive change, a beginning of a return to the considerably less rocky relationship between Jack and Daniel, after AP. They still argued, but they were back to arguing in a manner that indicated that they respected each other.


                              J.
                              Ah very interesting points. But can't really answer them here without going off topic. I'll see if I can dig up the Daniel Discussion thread for that. Or perhaps it could fit in the Daniel/Jack Friendship discussion? If you don't mind me quoting you elsewhere?
                              sigpic

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by brihana25

                                Just like it's easier to assume that all J/S shippers automatically hate Daniel. Or that all Daniel fans automatically hate Jonas. ...
                                Does somebody would be able to explain to me where all these stereotypes come from?I hear them all the time but at the same time personally I don't know anybody who thinks like that.I'm myself a shipper but I do like Daniel and D&J friendship.I like their interaction but I happen to be huge Jonas fan as well.This doesn't exclude each other...
                                Originally posted by brihana25
                                Or that all S/P shippers automatically must be J/D slashers...
                                Okay, who has come up with something like that??!!Guess the world's going crazy...


                                On another subject:
                                Dani i've read your reasons for disliking ship.Thanks for pointing them out.Reading "Anti ship thread" answered some of my questions although I didn't have time to read all the posts-gonna do that later.Still I don't agree with them.

                                And just for the record- some people dispise S/J ship cos they think Jack is too old for Sam.Looks like her grandfather?I respect their opinion but I sure find it a little weird.There are a lot of people who find Jack VERY ATTRACTIVE...It's a very individual thing and I was really surprised that for some folks this is the reason to be anti-shipper.Just a thought.

                                I hope I didn't offend anybody.
                                Last edited by Petra; 01 September 2004, 04:31 AM. Reason: adding something
                                There's a good chance this opinion is shared by Ashizuri
                                sigpic
                                awesome sig by Josiane

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