Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

General Ship ( Relationship) Discussion

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    I usually don't mind subtle UST-type moments, but when ship becomes the focus of an ep- or worse, the entire series- that's where I draw the line.

    I liked ship on Stargate a lot better when I had the choice to ignore it.

    Comment


      Originally posted by ShadowMaat
      I usually don't mind subtle UST-type moments, but when ship becomes the focus of an ep- or worse, the entire series- that's where I draw the line.

      I liked ship on Stargate a lot better when I had the choice to ignore it.
      Very true.

      Comment


        Originally posted by greytop
        3. I personally don't want to be a shipper but if you want to be one that's fine with me.
        Luckily, being a shipper or not is a personal choice.
        I'm a girl! A girly girly girl!

        Okay, you got me. I can't accept change. This message may look like it was typed on a computer and posted on the internet, but it is actually cave drawings delivered by smoke signals.

        Naquada Enhanced Chastity Belts -SG1 edition. On sale now! Heck, I'll give them away

        Daniel Jackson Appreciation and Discussion -because he's more than pretty

        http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=89


        Daniel Jackson: The Beacon of Hope and The Man Who Opened the Stargate

        Comment


          I've always avoided ship discussion threads primarily because I'm a Daniel/Janet shipper (now and forever, despite Heroes) and the ship that's always discussed is Jack/Sam. Disagreeing with that pro group is just asking for caustic responses, so it hasn't been worth the trouble.

          Via other threads, I've expressed my feelings about the Jack/Sam ship that's grown like an alien mold infestation throughout Season 7 and now continuing into Season 8: it should be dumped completely so TPTB can get back to writing the science fiction, action adventure show we all came to love in Seasons 1 through 6.

          I don't think this Jack/Sam 'thing' will be resolved at the end of Season 8. Even with RDA leaving, there seems to be a chance that there might be a Season 9 without him. Of course, the shippers will be left hanging since I don't see Sam being written out of the show just because Jack is gone. He could retire again, they could go fishing and then she's back after a long vacation. Now that unspoken titillation could be quite subtle and interesting. Oh, sorry about that. Just letting my muse drift a little here.

          The second possibility is that TPTB will keep dragging out plot resolutions thru Season 8 and, if necessary, Season 9 in order to have some big bang-up movie script. Let's face some facts here. Star Trek was able to transition to the big screen because Paramount had a lot of years of untold Trek history to play with. Stargate SG-1 is still too young, as has been pointed out by some of its own character creations.

          After seeing 4 episodes of the new season and reading descriptions of 11 other episodes, I do get the feeling that TPTB are just drifting again in terms of storytelling, waiting to find out if they'll be going to Season 9 or a movie.

          If they would just tell the science fiction, action adventure stories that are what Stargate SG-1 is all about, there wouldn't be room for all this silly ship.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Mar9645
            I've always avoided ship discussion threads primarily because I'm a Daniel/Janet shipper (now and forever, despite Heroes) and the ship that's always discussed is Jack/Sam. Disagreeing with that pro group is just asking for caustic responses, so it hasn't been worth the trouble.
            Well, I like Daniel/Janet too and I was just catching on to it when Heroes happened (I didn't start reading fanfic until January). Teryl made a wonderful comment at Gatecon about Janet having Daniel's glasses in Fallen and then a more risque comment that Daniel had his own drawer on the left side of Janet's bed! It was really funny!

            As for the caustic responses, I'm sorry that you have had to meet up with those who aren't so polite as most of the shippers are at GW--I know they're out there but I prefer not to claim myself as one of their group. As you have probably already guessed, I am a Jack and Sam shipper as well. And as a Jack and Sam shipper, I have also been subjected to many nasty comments as well--with the shining exception of GW, which has been positive for the most part. Many shippers stay in the shipper thread for the simple reason that they are accosted pretty much EVERYWHERE else they go just for having a positive opinion of a relationship they like. I won't waste my time trying to convince you of the merits of the ship just as I'm sure you won't waste yours trying to convince me of the problems with it. That said, I am just saying that I know exactly how you feel and I am deeply saddened that you have been treated in that way. I hope you feel like you can have a rational discussion here without the animosity that you have been previously subjected to.

            I don't think this Jack/Sam 'thing' will be resolved at the end of Season 8. Even with RDA leaving, there seems to be a chance that there might be a Season 9 without him. Of course, the shippers will be left hanging since I don't see Sam being written out of the show just because Jack is gone. He could retire again, they could go fishing and then she's back after a long vacation. Now that unspoken titillation could be quite subtle and interesting. Oh, sorry about that. Just letting my muse drift a little here.
            Well, I can always hope that they will resolve it but only time will tell. No, I don't see Sam as being written out of the show either but I know that many shippers would be happy just to know they are together. I know that I personally don't need the love scene (yet another thing that squicked me about 'Chimera'--too much PDA, didn't belong in SG-1)--I just want to know that they have FINALLY had the adult convo they should have had in Season 4! I sincerely believe that if they had had that convo then, there wouldn't be an issue because it would have been resolved a long time ago and we could get back to good team stories! And I value the TEAM above all else, including the ship.

            The second possibility is that TPTB will keep dragging out plot resolutions thru Season 8 and, if necessary, Season 9 in order to have some big bang-up movie script. Let's face some facts here. Star Trek was able to transition to the big screen because Paramount had a lot of years of untold Trek history to play with. Stargate SG-1 is still too young, as has been pointed out by some of its own character creations.
            I'll respond to this a bit at a time...
            1) I could see a stand alone story making a good movie--Lost City would have been a good movie IMHO
            2)Star Trek was cancelled in the late 60's after only 3 years on television--the first movie was made in the late 70's with only those three years worth of television to work with--how is that more history? At the end of this season, Stargate will have had 8 years of mythology (plus the original movie) to work with plus the possibilities of an all new plot line.

            After seeing 4 episodes of the new season and reading descriptions of 11 other episodes, I do get the feeling that TPTB are just drifting again in terms of storytelling, waiting to find out if they'll be going to Season 9 or a movie.
            This could be the case but I am enjoying this season a lot so far!

            If they would just tell the science fiction, action adventure stories that are what Stargate SG-1 is all about, there wouldn't be room for all this silly ship.
            Well, personally I think it adds another dimension but that's MHO!
            Last edited by marimba26; 05 August 2004, 05:00 PM. Reason: wasn't finished LOL
            Marimba FBI - Video Surveillance Division
            Lemming #25 Frothing Fan Lemming


            Vids by Marimba, Tamefarrar and Ruralstar!
            Big hugs to Ruralstar for the banner!

            Comment


              Originally posted by marimba26
              Well, I like Daniel/Janet too and I was just catching on to it when Heroes happened (I didn't start reading fanfic until January). Teryl made a wonderful comment at Gatecon about Janet having Daniel's glasses in Fallen and then a more risque comment that Daniel had his own drawer on the left side of Janet's bed! It was really funny!
              I would have loved to see and hear that! Thanks for sharing!

              Originally posted by marimba26
              As for the caustic responses, I'm sorry that you have had to meet up with those who aren't so polite as most of the shippers are at GW--I know they're out there but I prefer not to claim myself as one of their group.
              I think you misunderstood. I've never intruded on a Jack/Sam thread because I respect those who believe in that ship and wouldn't try to argue against their beliefs. On the old Delphi forum I experienced a number of unpleasant incidents from a few bullies and thugs who delighted in flaming those of different opinions even on a thread that was specifically stated to be only for those who agreed with the subject of the thread. At one time I did think the Jack/Sam UST was cute and well-done but Season 7 turned it into something very annoying and unpleasant and far beyond what I've always loved about the show.

              Originally posted by marimba26
              Well, I can always hope that they will resolve it but only time will tell. No, I don't see Sam as being written out of the show either but I know that many shippers would be happy just to know they are together.
              The only way they could be really together is if one of them left the military. If there is a Season 9, Jack could retire (to cover RDA leaving), they could have a long vacation together, Sam would come back to the SGC VERY happy and the show could go on. We would have the subtle use-your-imagination method of ship that worked so well before and the show would be back to action/adventure mode again.

              Originally posted by marimba26
              I could see a stand alone story making a good movie--
              I agree wholeheartedly. In fact, it would be a great way to bring Jack/RDA back for a special guest appearance.

              Originally posted by marimba26
              Star Trek was cancelled in the late 60's after only 3 years on television--the first movie was made in the late 70's with only those three years worth of television to work with--how is that more history?
              Within the Trek universe history, a couple of decades had gone by between the end of TOS and Star Trek: The Movie. The characters were older and had moved on with their lives within Starfleet. I was referring to storytelling time, not real time.

              Originally posted by marimba26
              ...plus the possibilities of an all new plot line.
              What all new plot line? Do you know something I don't know?

              Originally posted by marimba26
              Well, personally I think it adds another dimension but that's MHO!
              Ship is wonderful when it's done with a very light touch. The reason we Daniel/Janet shippers have such a strong sense of who the two people are, why they should be together and how wonderfully their relationship has evolved is because Michael and Teryl made it that way on screen. It didn't need the overtness and ponderous angst that the Jack/Sam ship has now. Those of us who write Daniel/Janet ship fiction are very proud of our beliefs, our feelings and the work we've created.

              I sincerely hope that the Jack/Sam ship has a worthwhile and worthy resolution whether it's at series end or in a movie.

              Comment


                d00d i wanna know who decided to use the word "ship" for a relationship...i get confused with you know ship...thingy in space or in water? who doesnt...

                anyway, the OTP of stargate is Thor and Heimdall..i dont care what ppl say about Heimdall =P~~~~

                Daniel: No Jonas, I will NOT play pass the mustard with you.
                Jonas: What about pass the mayo?
                Daniel: ...okay, but dont tell Jack.


                Comment


                  Originally posted by marimba26
                  And on that point, we agree But I don't think Stargate is crap--I think it's still about the best show on TV at the moment! I know it's been around eight years but I am enjoying this season as much as I enjoyed the early seasons. In some ways, I'd say my enjoyment has increased because the characters have grown over time in a way that VERY few television characters are ever allowed to.
                  Just jumping in here. I know I'm behind, and I've been mostly silent,
                  because to me the debate is rather useless in that nobody's mind is going
                  to be changed much. But what the hey.

                  Anyway, I do agree that Stargate SG-1 doesn't seem like crap to me.
                  It doesn't feel like it's crippled or limping along. It still gives me great
                  pleasure to tune in every week, and I look forward to recording it. As long
                  as I actually anticipate the next show having another interesting story,
                  I've got to think TPTB must be doing something right. So far I'm enjoying
                  this season, even though a lack of budget seems evident to me.

                  I truly like the fact that the characters are such good friends now.
                  There's been "ship" between all of them since the beginning, and to me
                  the close bond of friendship hasn't gone stale.

                  But, I realize we are mostly talking about "romantic relationships."
                  I guess I'll rehash the same old arguments, but these are my views:

                  Yeah, this always caused a ruckus for most every TV show I can remember
                  where there was a male and/or female lead who had great chemistry with
                  someone of the opposite sex. Heck, whenever MacGyver got a girlfriend,
                  the writers or TPTB got nasty letters. Poor Mac! Fans wanted him celibate
                  for 7 years. Fans wouldn't even let poor Chuck Connors ("The Rifleman" from
                  the 50's) get a girlfriend or a new wife. I would think TPTB welcome and
                  even fan the flames of such controversy, as it keeps some sort of buzz going
                  about the show, good or bad -- the endless debates at least show that
                  people are still interested in one way or another.

                  I'm splitting this into two posts...end of Part I

                  OzGirl

                  If by "fond" you mean droolworthy, hummable, coma-causing, breath-stealing, lustful, libidinous
                  appreciation of the First Hussy Magnitude for Jack & his splendid, dirty, sweaty, sun-kissed, lithe-fingered,
                  full-bottom-lipped, lickable-eared, agile-tongued, long-necked, silver-haired, gracefully moving body
                  in all its fantasmagorical glory, then--- yes. I am also "fond." -- OzGirl

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by marimba26
                    As for the ship--I do not now, nor have I EVER wanted it to take over the show. This show has ALWAYS been about good stories about a TEAM for me. I just happen to think that the ship gives those stories and those characters an added dimension. If no ship is good, then I guess Daniel shouldn't have had relationships either. Just MHO.
                    I have to agree. I guess I am categorized as a dreaded "shipper," because
                    I have always seen chemistry between Jack and Sam. (Sorry! Have to
                    blame my dear departed mother, who introduced me to the show when
                    she was dying. She pointed out RDA and AT, and by way of introduction,
                    said, "That's MacGyver playing Jack, and that's Sam. He loves her." I
                    spent the next year discovering that I could see how she would think so.)

                    I don't think I've ever seen ship take over the show in any way. I have
                    seen shippy episodes for each character (except Janet) -- IMO the few
                    episodes with Daniel and Sha're were quite the soap opera. She's captured
                    and he must find her out in the vast universe, where nobody can hear
                    you scream! She's pregnant with an alien child! She's in bed with semi-naked
                    Daniel -- or is she?? Daniel helps her deliver her baby, but the child is taken
                    away! Port Charles used to have weekly cliffhangers with such stuff.

                    Other ship which took up significant chunks of entire episodes:
                    --We had Jack and Laira. (Ooooo, the hate mail against Laira!)
                    --We had Teal'c and his wife or significant other in a couple of eps, where
                    their relationship was a big part of the storyline. Not to mention that Blalok
                    woman in Season 7!! Lots of lippage between our hero and her.
                    --We had Daniel's gal pal Sarah -- taken over by a Goa'uld!!
                    --There was an entire episode devoted to Sam and Orlin sparking and
                    dematerializing. And Sam with Narim, and Sam with that other guy she
                    kissed; Sam's failed relationship led to one guy taking over an entire planet.
                    --Then, of course, there was Lover Boy Pete.
                    --We had Jack and Sam shipping as a major plot device for maybe two or
                    three eps (I think).

                    I could hardly say that out of 100+ episodes of SG-1, that ship has ever
                    completely taken over the show. Fans who like a pairing will see shippiness
                    frequently, as I do. But there still are other storylines per episode.
                    I don't see where these are entirely overshadowed or trampled in any way
                    by interfering ship vibes. Most of the ship consists of a 3-second gaze or
                    nod or smile that could be easily ignored out of 43 minutes of other stuff
                    going on, couldn't it?

                    OzGirl

                    If by "fond" you mean droolworthy, hummable, coma-causing, breath-stealing, lustful, libidinous
                    appreciation of the First Hussy Magnitude for Jack & his splendid, dirty, sweaty, sun-kissed, lithe-fingered,
                    full-bottom-lipped, lickable-eared, agile-tongued, long-necked, silver-haired, gracefully moving body
                    in all its fantasmagorical glory, then--- yes. I am also "fond." -- OzGirl

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by OzGirl
                      IMO the few episodes with Daniel and Sha're were quite the soap opera.
                      LOL, I'm just picturing EastEnders done the Stargate Way - Sonia discovers that she's pregnant and the baby is an alien, and Martin has to sell his oranges and cauliflowers at a huge mark-up to pay for alien baby food. Or Dot gets taken over by a parasite that makes her eyes glow and gives her homicidal tendencies. Jim doesn't notice though, cos he doesn't look up from his paper...


                      Originally posted by OzGirl
                      Other ship which took up significant chunks of entire episodes:
                      --We had Jack and Laira. (Ooooo, the hate mail against Laira!)
                      --We had Teal'c and his wife or significant other in a couple of eps, where
                      their relationship was a big part of the storyline. Not to mention that Blalok
                      woman in Season 7!! Lots of lippage between our hero and her.
                      --We had Daniel's gal pal Sarah -- taken over by a Goa'uld!!
                      --There was an entire episode devoted to Sam and Orlin sparking and
                      dematerializing. And Sam with Narim, and Sam with that other guy she
                      kissed; Sam's failed relationship led to one guy taking over an entire planet.
                      Okay, taking all this as 'ship' for the sake of argument (I never saw any Sarah/Daniel ship, only a reference to the fact that they had once dated), Each of the 'ship' bits mentioned above are either one-offs where we know that we'll never have to see the 'other half' again, or have recurring *background* 'other halves'. Teal'c/Dreyauc never had much of an impact on, say, Bane or Tangent. The difference between those and the S/J shippy stuff is that increasingly it intrudes on even the episodes where ship isn't supposed to be an issue, simply cos if shippy eps have recently happened then Sam and Jack cannot talk to each other without the ghost of last week's shippiness hovering. For me, S/J has an impact on about half of everything Sam does right now, and if I ever see S/Jness coming from Jack's side it's going to do the same for him.

                      That's the difference between S/J ship and every other bit of shippiness that the show has ever done.

                      Madeleine

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Madeleine_W
                        Each of the 'ship' bits mentioned above are either one-offs where we know that we'll never have to see the 'other half' again, or have recurring *background* 'other halves'.
                        The only ship you object to, then, is between SG-1 members? (Because
                        they are always in the "foreground.") You don't mind the various girlfriends,
                        boyfriends, soapy antics that have been around all these years? I'm
                        glad we are narrowing this down a bit, because it has always confused me.
                        Only certain degrees of "ship" are ruining the show, I guess.

                        So they can be married (like Jack and Sara were), or possible security
                        risks (like Pete for Sam) or could put the team in jeopardy (like Sarah/Osiris
                        in a couple of episodes dealing with Daniel), as long as they are not wed to
                        or dating another SG-1 team member? Would you object, then, to Daniel
                        dating Sam and kissing her on camera every couple of weeks? I would
                        think so, based on my understanding of your statements. But what if Danny
                        were dating Sam, and every so often he would smile at her and hand her
                        a blue jello in the cafeteria? No overt kisses, prolonged hugs, licking.
                        (Just threw that in there! LOL) Would that be squicky and ruin the show
                        for you?

                        I really don't think hugs and the occasional small kiss would ruin the show
                        for me, if D&S were the ones I wanted to be together. And as long as
                        they didn't harm the missions, the SGC, or the team -- no problem.

                        Objections if Teal'c were married to Ishta, and possibly visiting her every so
                        often to pick out curtains? Maybe that would be annoying, because there
                        would be too much emphasis on background or personal lives and not on
                        the missions, right? What if Jack's (other) girlfriend showed up at work every
                        week to give him his brown bag lunch with a little love note? Or, think Pete
                        and Sam in a similar scenario.

                        I don't know. I like a little peek at the off-base lives every so often.
                        Makes the characters more three-dimensional. Now substitute J&S for
                        any of these, and I don't see the problem, except for the pesky regs.
                        So far they have handled themselves professionally, IMO, and have not
                        put the team in danger -- no matter how often Jack smiles at Sam
                        and invites her to go fishing!

                        I still don't see J&S overwhelming any storylines, and I CRAVE romance
                        between them!! Maybe you have wink anxiety. Or fear of hugs. You
                        might be SOOOOO afraid that something like a hug or kiss or lunch
                        invitation might happen, that you cannot think of anything else, and
                        cannot enjoy the show.

                        My advice is: Don't do that!

                        OzGirl

                        If by "fond" you mean droolworthy, hummable, coma-causing, breath-stealing, lustful, libidinous
                        appreciation of the First Hussy Magnitude for Jack & his splendid, dirty, sweaty, sun-kissed, lithe-fingered,
                        full-bottom-lipped, lickable-eared, agile-tongued, long-necked, silver-haired, gracefully moving body
                        in all its fantasmagorical glory, then--- yes. I am also "fond." -- OzGirl

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by OzGirl
                          The only ship you object to, then, is between SG-1 members? ... You don't mind the various girlfriends,
                          boyfriends, soapy antics that have been around all these years? ...
                          Only certain degrees of "ship" are ruining the show, I guess.
                          That's not really what I was trying to say. As it happens I didn't like Narim and didn't think much of Dreyac. But Narim never overshadowed Sam's character or any eps but the three he was in. Dreyac was not a spectre looming large over Teal'c but a once-in-a-blue moon thing.

                          Originally posted by OzGirl
                          So they can be married (like Jack and Sara were), or possible security
                          risks (like Pete for Sam) or could put the team in jeopardy (like Sarah/Osiris
                          in a couple of episodes dealing with Daniel), as long as they are not wed to
                          or dating another SG-1 team member?
                          We never had to put up with reams and reams of Jack/Sara. Anyone who thought they were unrealistic or dull or had zero chemistry could rest assured that they weren't going to be clogging up screentime together for much longer.

                          Sara put the team in jeopardy, yeah. All in a SFish way, and because *she opened a canopic jar and got snaked*, not because Daniel had once dated her. So I don't object to that on shippy grounds.

                          Pete/Sam is second only to S/J in it's in-your-face-and-can't-be-avoided -ness, so any anti-P/Sers have my sympathy.

                          But really, the issue isn't whether the SG-1 characters are dating each other or other people, it's about whether the romance is interesting and in-character. For me, S/J isn't either. Having a 'thing' with a one-off character is less likely to be out-of-character anyway, cos if they don't 'gel' to me then I tend to think "(S)he'll decide that (s)he wants out soon", and then blow me down but the poor object of the affections kicks the bucket before that can happen - but I can assume it would have fizzled out anyway without canon telling me otherwise, if that's what seems in-character to me.

                          S/P is pretty grim for many, I know, but at least he's not onscreen with Sam while shippy music plays in evey other episode. Or maybe he is, I haven't seen s8. If so then a lot of people have my sympathy. My gripe isn't against main characters having a romance together, it's against unrealistic and boring romances of any sort, especially where they get into all the nooks and crannies of the show.

                          Originally posted by OzGirl
                          Maybe you have wink anxiety. Or fear of hugs. You
                          might be SOOOOO afraid that something like a hug or kiss or lunch
                          invitation might happen, that you cannot think of anything else, and
                          cannot enjoy the show.

                          My advice is: Don't do that!

                          OzGirl
                          Thanks for the advice. But I tend to live in the moment when I watch the show, and if I'm enjoying a scene I enjoy it all the while I'm enjoying it and then when it stops being enjoyable I stop enjoying it. It's been a while now since anyone implied I had 'problems' with the way I watched the show, and even longer since anyone came right out and said it, but I've never felt that I was doing anything 'wrong', so forgive me if I say your advice isn't exactly what I needed.

                          Finally, about Sam/Daniel? I could cope with that. There's plenty of chemistry, there's no uncle/niece vibe, there's no 'sir' issue, and there's a believable amount of compatibility. Pretty much ditto with Sam/Teal'c. I don't especially want it, but I wouldn't find the basic idea a turn-off. I'd just wonder what the point would be. Would it enhance the SF and adventure stories? Would it be easy to keep interesting? Would it be kept in the background and hardly ever require drippy music? I doubt it. So on balance, I'd rather not. But it wouldn't make me go bleee in the way that S/J does.

                          My problem is with the ubiquity of S/J, not with the fact of a romance between leading characters. I loved all the ship in Firefly. I just didn't feel that your previous post, the one that said that there had been loads of non S/J ship already, was really relevant to S/J on account of how everything pre-chimera - Laira, Shaunac etc was only onscreen *while it was a part of the plot* and not virtually every ep, as it has been with S/J of late.

                          Madeleine

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Madeleine_W
                            It's been a while now since anyone implied I had 'problems' with the way I watched the show, and even longer since anyone came right out and said it, but I've never felt that I was doing anything 'wrong', so forgive me if I say your advice isn't exactly what I needed.
                            Madeleine, I'm sorry if I insulted you. "Fear of hugs" and such was meant in
                            a lighthearted way, but I guess I forgot winky smilies and such. I do
                            apologize. I've read some banter elsewhere on this thread, so I figured
                            it was OK. But of course, you don't know me. It was supposed to be the
                            old "Doctor, it hurts when I do this." "Then don't do that!" joke.

                            I had a nice, thoughtful reply all ready to go, but I guess I took too long
                            composing it, and the forum kicked me out. So I'll try again...

                            OzGirl

                            If by "fond" you mean droolworthy, hummable, coma-causing, breath-stealing, lustful, libidinous
                            appreciation of the First Hussy Magnitude for Jack & his splendid, dirty, sweaty, sun-kissed, lithe-fingered,
                            full-bottom-lipped, lickable-eared, agile-tongued, long-necked, silver-haired, gracefully moving body
                            in all its fantasmagorical glory, then--- yes. I am also "fond." -- OzGirl

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Madeleine_W
                              That's not really what I was trying to say. As it happens I didn't like Narim and didn't think much of Dreyac. But Narim never overshadowed Sam's character or any eps but the three he was in. Dreyac was not a spectre looming large over Teal'c but a once-in-a-blue moon thing.
                              Ah, but I don't see Jack as overshadowing Sam's character, either.
                              It seems to me that he lets her do her thing, which is one of the many
                              things I like about O'Neill! I don't think he could change Sam if he tried.

                              Originally posted by Madeleine_W
                              We never had to put up with reams and reams of Jack/Sara. Anyone who thought they were unrealistic or dull or had zero chemistry could rest assured that they weren't going to be clogging up screentime together for much longer.
                              So our perceptions differ greatly here. I don't see "reams and reams" of J&S.
                              I have seen very infrequent and mostly innocuous little gestures, plus the
                              occasional hug or hallucination -- but very rare, indeed -- over these
                              past 7+ seasons. You see a "clog" where I don't see anything but brief
                              acknowledgement. Each little smile, when it finally appears, seems likely to
                              be interpreted either way -- is it just caring about a buddy, or ship? At least
                              that's what some anti-ship fans have been writing. It's difficult for me to
                              picture how any of this could entirely negate the episode in question for
                              you. There are very few episodes I would not rewatch, even the many
                              in which I have seen no signs of J&S ship at all. I'm sorry the show has been
                              tainted so much for you.

                              Originally posted by Madeleine_W
                              Sara put the team in jeopardy, yeah. All in a SFish
                              way, and because *she opened a canopic jar and got snaked*, not because
                              Daniel had once dated her. So I don't object to that on shippy grounds.
                              Is motivation a big difference then? Maybe "motivation" is not the word I
                              mean. When Sam has an entity taking over her actions or is under the
                              influence of something else, then Jack hanging around her or becoming
                              angsty is not a problem, but Sam driving over to Jack's house on purpose
                              is more irritating, maybe?

                              I understand that Sam and Jack being seen together cannot be avoided,
                              because they are some of the main characters, it's true. But I think the
                              show would be ever so boring if these characters showed no emotion
                              or caring whatsoever toward each other, just as I love the interactions
                              between Jack and Teal'c, Jack and Daniel, Daniel and Sam, etc. IMO, the
                              writers are being quite careful to leave what I call ship between J&S very
                              open to interpretation. OK, except for a very few eps, when the plot
                              was to deal with "relationships," per Martin Wood's commentary.

                              --more to come, if you can stand it! LOL --

                              If by "fond" you mean droolworthy, hummable, coma-causing, breath-stealing, lustful, libidinous
                              appreciation of the First Hussy Magnitude for Jack & his splendid, dirty, sweaty, sun-kissed, lithe-fingered,
                              full-bottom-lipped, lickable-eared, agile-tongued, long-necked, silver-haired, gracefully moving body
                              in all its fantasmagorical glory, then--- yes. I am also "fond." -- OzGirl

                              Comment


                                Gosh!!! I'm sorry, I haven't written this much in *months*. Well, a mod (was
                                it you?) invited me to come here and "talk" months ago, and I was always --
                                can I say it? Scared! Scared of not saying what I meant correctly.
                                (**sigh. Already have done that!**) Scared of not being able to think
                                of the right words. Oh well. I don't wish to fight, just understand.

                                Last bit, I swear!

                                Originally posted by Madeleine_W
                                But really, the issue isn't whether the SG-1 characters are dating each other or other people, it's about whether the romance is interesting and in-character. For me, S/J isn't either.
                                Well, I suppose nothing can be done to change your feelings on that! LOL

                                Can't change mine, either, I'm afraid. The perceived relationship between
                                Sam and Jack have helped keep me glued to the series over its run, so
                                that even when it seemed to me there was a lo-o-o-o-ng drought, I had
                                hopes of some little banter or smile or nod to come -- gods forbid, even a
                                hug! Bonus!! I mean, I see Jack touch Teal'c's cheek in a lovely
                                gesture between friends, and I think, "Why can't Sam and Jack do that?"


                                Originally posted by Madeleine_W
                                Having a 'thing' with a one-off character is less likely to be out-of-character anyway, cos if they don't 'gel' to me then I tend to think "(S)he'll decide that (s)he wants out soon", and then blow me down but the poor object of the affections kicks the bucket before that can happen - but I can assume it would have fizzled out anyway without canon telling me otherwise, if that's what seems in-character to me.
                                Yes, it's true. You're not likely to see either Sam or Jack die off soon.
                                (Maybe at the end of Season 8 if RDA signs off forever??? Aaaaccckkkkkk!
                                NO!!!) So I can see where you're stuck there. I have hopes for Pete,
                                though -- I mean like "out, brief candle!"

                                If each of them found a different significant other once and for all, and then
                                these weren't mentioned much, except in passing ("Brunhilde dropped me
                                off at work today, and she made this cake!"), would that straighten things
                                out for you? I guess it's too late for the show to redeem itself?

                                Originally posted by Madeleine_W
                                S/P is pretty grim for many, I know, but at least he's
                                not onscreen with Sam while shippy music plays in evey other episode. Or maybe he is, I haven't seen s8. If so then a lot of people have my sympathy.
                                I don't *think* P. is onscreen every moment, but I always picture him skulking
                                behind bushes and maybe straightening the towels in Sam's bathroom, or
                                rearranging her cans of soup just so... Sorry, that's a reference to a movie
                                about an ex-husband stalking Julia Roberts' character. I just don't picture
                                Jack being that way. At any rate, I haven't heard the shippy music in
                                every other episode for J&S, either. It's been sort of rare -- or has it
                                come in bunches, between long periods of nothing between J&S?

                                Do you have the same objection to jack-Thor music? I don't mind
                                characters having theme music sometimes. Nah, I understand it's the
                                Pavlovian this-music-means-ship-AAAARRRRGGGHHH!! response that
                                gets on your nerves.

                                Originally posted by Madeleine_W
                                My gripe isn't against main characters having a romance together, it's against unrealistic and boring romances of any sort, especially where they get into all the nooks and crannies of the show.
                                <snip>

                                Finally, about Sam/Daniel? I could cope with that. There's plenty of chemistry, there's no uncle/niece vibe, there's no 'sir' issue, and there's a believable amount of compatibility. Pretty much ditto with Sam/Teal'c.
                                Yes, I'm with you in that I don't want unrealistic and boring romances.
                                That's why I didn't like the Teal'c & Ishta episode -- couldn't see how
                                the whole thing fit in with SG-1, and luckily it was only one ep. But I'm
                                afraid she's still out there, waiting to come back and haunt me!
                                Talk about "clogs" in the show!

                                Well, as you can tell, I find J&S neither "unrealistic" nor "boring."
                                And I do like my shows to have romance that I care about.
                                So this will never change for either of us, I expect. Sam/Daniel I
                                couldn't stomach for very long, I'll wager. Or maybe they'd grow on
                                me! Now I'm not sure. The IQ of any of their kids would be in the
                                millions, no doubt!

                                Most romance in TV shows, unless it is the main gimmick of the series,
                                doesn't seem to enhance the SF (X Files, Trek) or adventure stories or
                                the court cases (Jag) in any way for me. It has mostly been an aside
                                -- oh, by the way, here's more for the character to do. Now you see
                                that he or she isn't so cold and tough and untouchable as they seem!
                                They have feelings and vulnerabilities. That's how I view the J&S stuff --
                                never the central focus. Just a pleasant aside for me. Just rounding
                                out the characters. I couldn't stick with it if there weren't good stories
                                about SG-1 vs. the universe or SG-1 protecting the planet, plus good
                                productions and special effects.

                                I can't help it that I love Jack and Sam. I'm sorry it bothers you so much,
                                but I think you don't have to worry. If the past 7+ seasons are any
                                indication, you won't have any ship to deal with for several upcoming
                                episodes, and probably the majority of the season. I'll just wait and
                                suffer!

                                OzGirl

                                If by "fond" you mean droolworthy, hummable, coma-causing, breath-stealing, lustful, libidinous
                                appreciation of the First Hussy Magnitude for Jack & his splendid, dirty, sweaty, sun-kissed, lithe-fingered,
                                full-bottom-lipped, lickable-eared, agile-tongued, long-necked, silver-haired, gracefully moving body
                                in all its fantasmagorical glory, then--- yes. I am also "fond." -- OzGirl

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X