General Ship ( Relationship) Discussion

[ShadowMaat]

GC was my first con (like you couldn't tell I'm sure) and I was very impressed that I met people of all opinions and I got along with all of them just fine because we all have a common love--Stargate SG-1. There were no boos (except when the MC came in to end the panel with the big three) and I was impressed that everyone could behave so well.

Au contraire. I was booed when I told Amanda that not everyone hated Pete. Cheered, too, but there were definitely a lot of boos mixed in. And then there was the girl in the "I hate Pete" t-shirt... *shudder* I pray to all the gods I know that Amanda never saw that.

But I digress. I'm sick to death of 'ship in ANY form and of all the nasty feelings it's causing in fandom. With all due respect to TPTB sometimes they can be as tactless as the fans themselves and their insistence on building up the animosity in fandom by dragging things out and dragging things out and dumping on the ship then taking it all away... It isn't fun anymore. It never really was, but now it's more annoying than anything else. And tedious. And pathetic. One way or the other, JUST BLOODY CHOOSE ALREADY!!! It isn't fair to the fans and it isn't fair to the characters. All this vacillating of Sam's makes her, in MY eyes, look weak and indecisive. CHOOSE someone! ANYONE! Hell, choose Poochinski if you gotta, but please, for the love of fluffy puppies, CAN WE GET BACK TO THE REAL STORIES NOW??

*sigh* Wasting my breath, I know...

[Dani347]

I was a Mulder/Scully shipper (sort of) but I think the problem there wasn't the ship really.

I wasn't saying the ship was a problem with the show (like I said, I was a shipper for the show) I was just saying that just because a show lasts a long time doesn't mean it's good. I don't think a show that lasts 9 years is better than a show that lasts 4 years. The 9 year show can be complete crap and the 4 year one could be one of the best shows on tv. So, in answer to the original question, to repeat, I don't care how many shows lasted how long because of ship. If I think a show is crap, and someone tells me, "Yeah, but it lasted 28 years" I'll just answer "28 years of crap."

And, for the love of everything, good producers and writers should be able to keep a show on, give the characters human traits, flaws, keep it interesting, make them seem real, and every other thing without having to have ship. Ship shouldn't be the only thing that achieves these goals. People will disagree or not, depending on how they viewed the show (and wasn't it a great thing when people could see different things) but to me, they managed to have all of the things that make a show great and give the characters every aspect a character needs for 3 whole years without having to have ship.

[stargate barbie]

prime example. space above and beyond. it only lasted one year, and was so much better than a lot of shows that have gone on for many years longer than that.


oh and i tend to avoid interviews now. i'm sick to death of hearing interviews treat ship, for any pairing like its the only thing going on in the show. i know the majority of my posts are in the various ship threads, but that doesn't mean i think its the most important thing in the show.

and an "i hate pete" t-shirt? really? i know i'm hardly pete's biggest fan, but.... no. no. no. no......... ____ ....... no!


hey, i know there are sam/daniel, sam/teal'c, jack/daniel, and so on, shippers out there. how come none of them post here?

[ShadowMaat]

Amen on SAaB. Also a good example of a non-shippy show. Or I never saw any ship, except for Nathan/Kylen. Wellll, OK, and maybe a bit of Paul/Elroy, but that's just the sick twisted freak in me.

I don't understand people who think that longevity is a sign of greatness. Longevity is a sign of longevity, that's about it. Brilliant shows have been cancelled too soon, utter crap has dragged on for years, and a lot of stellar shows have declined steadily over the years until it almost becomes embarrassing.

I think it's very sad that TPTB feel that ship is the only way to keep fans interested. Or, at least, they seem to think that ship is an important factor. I'd rather have hard-hitting storylines and meaningful character development. Why can't they concentrate on that, instead? People keep saying that there are "endless possibilities" for the show and use that as evidence that Stargate could continue for years and years... but if those "endless possibilities" aren't being explored, then what's the point? Show us the possibilities! Explore new ideas! Take chances, for cryin' out loud! Season 8 has gotten off to a great start, something I would have considered outright impossible a year (or even a few months) ago. I'd like to see the show continue that.

I can't say this enough: I watch Stargate because it's science fiction. I don't care about who's banging whom or who wants to lock lips with which character. It's the stories I care about and the "dressings" shouldn't overwhelm the plots... or substitute for them.

[Shipperahoy]

Romance does seem to be a tried and true method for t.v. series. There are a few good shows out there without romance in it but they seem to be few and far between. I personally like a little romance in my t.v. shows. I'm a love-a-holic what can I say. I'm more likely to tune into a show if there's a good romantic pairing. But that's just me. I enjoyed the subtle UST of the earlier seasons, though, and I think the introduction of significant others as a plot point to the ship is a wee bit too much As the Stargate Turns for me. I'm not a big fan of angst. I do wish that the spoilers for this episode hadn't been released so far in advance. Ship is a hot topic and tempers run high. It is depressing to me that we had to shut down the Thread thread (say that 5 times fast), but I am sincerely glad that Dani ressurected this thread so that the topic can be discussed maturely. So thanks to Dani.

[Dani347]

hey, i know there are sam/daniel, sam/teal'c, jack/daniel, and so on, shippers out there. how come none of them post here?

I'm a Daniel/Janet shipper. Lifeboat was shippy for me. But, let me ask everyone who is not a Daniel/Janet shipper, and maybe especially those who hate the idea of them together, do any of you feel that pairing was ever forced on you? that it was taking up the whole show? That it was crowding out other aspects and shafting other characters?

I'm not a Daniel/Sam shipper. Or a Teal'c/Sam shipper. Or a Hammond/Janet shipper. However I know some people are/have been, and could find shippy moments in the show for these pairings. But, none of these pairings bother me, because I wasn't forced into it. People might have seen shippy episodes for their pairings, but I didn't. And, I liked it that way.

[stargate barbie]

for me, in this show, ship is important to me.

however, i loved the x-files up until season 5/6 ish. was not a m/s shipper. i thought chris carter sold out when he first went past season 5, which he said was unlikely considering he had a 5 year plan for the show, and then when he introduced ship between mulder and scully, which he said he would never do. i believe his exact words were, "they wont be sweating up the sheets".

i wouldn't have cared about ship on the x-files if he hadn't said that. but really i just pretended i never heard what CC said about 5 seasons and ship, and just accepted it.

i was okay with m/s getting together at the end of x-files. and was even kinda happy for the shippers. even though at that point i had stopped watching for nonship related reasons. mainly i thought the show started to suck bigtime.

i could see some mild potential for ship in space above and beyond, but never shipped for anyone in the show.

stargate is one of the few shows that i would say i ship on. but my primary focus is the actual sci fi stories in it. i just like it when i like the characters interaction and chemistry too. thats part of why i hated chimera so much. the personal relationship part should not have had anywhere near as much time devoted to it, especially when there was such an important storyline running in the same episode. i really hope they don't do the same thing with upcoming episodes in the future, which i wont bother to go into right now, because i'm too lazy to do spoiler space.

[ShadowMaat]

I think there was only one moment where I really felt a sudden attention to Dan/Jan ship, but it was a qucikly passing thing and I know a lot of people didn't even notice it. They're passing in the hall and reach out and hold hands for just a sec... *shrug* It wasn't even that big a deal, I don't think.

To answer your question, no, I've never felt that any other pairing has been shoved down my throat, made to be obvious, or in any way been the focus of an ep. Sam/Jack, on the other hand...

[Shipperahoy]

Oh c'mon now! That Jack/Thor ship is being thrown in our faces constantly! You can't turn around without it being shoved in your face.

[Liebestraume]

Can someone explain to me why it seems so wrong with "I hate [insert character name(s) here]." The subject of the hatred is only a fictional character, an embodiment of some concepts or ideas. If it's okay to love it, then why is it not okay to hate it?

(Apologies for going off topic here, but since it was brought up I thought I'd take the opportunity to ask. )

[stargate barbie]

i wasn't a daniel/janet shipper, never really saw that much potential for it, until they were consciously trying to show it, which unfortunately for you guys didn't happen terribly often. but even when they were trying to show it, i didn't really feel it. it just felt a bit forced to me. but it didn't bother me at all. there seemed to be a lot of daniel/janet shippers out there, so i wouldn't have had a problem with them developing it more if it were done right.
my only issue with it would be if they had developed it before season 4. sha're was either still out there, or daniel would have been grieving for her. which is why i had a big problem with daniels relationship with keira in season 3.

[stargate barbie]

Oh c'mon now! That Jack/Thor ship is being thrown in our faces constantly! You can't turn around without it being shoved in your face.

and i for one am loving it!

[stargate barbie]

Can someone explain to me why it seems so wrong with "I hate [insert character name(s) here]." The subject of the hatred is only a fictional character, an embodiment of some concepts or ideas. If it's okay to love it, then why is it not okay to hate it?

(Apologies for going off topic here, but since it was brought up I thought I'd take the opportunity to ask. )

i just think that its one thing to say it on an online forum, but at a public convention its a smidge too much negativity for my tastes. plus considering how controversial the character is, i'm not sure how appropriate it would be to make a statement either way. especially as a show of respect to certain actors in attendence who clearly seem to like the character. considering the apparent theme of certain negative letters directed at certain people, which seem to have had something of an upsetting effect, wearing a shirt that says something like that might come across as a slap in the face, to the person who was nice enough to show up to see hundreds of fans.

[Dani347]

until they were consciously trying to show it

sha're was either still out there, or daniel would have been grieving for her. which is why i had a big problem with daniels relationship with keira in season 3.

That's funny I never saw them (tptb) trying to show it. I just picked up on MS and TR sneaking it in. I've never felt tptb have purposely tried any ship with any of the regular characters (including Janet here) except Jack and Sam. I was glad that, imo, they never attempted to show it for real, imo. Not only do I not trust tptb to even be capable of doing ship correctly, but the same problems with Jack and Sam, minus the lack of chemistry (imo) would still be a factor.

As for Keira, it was too soon, but I wouldn't call it a relationship. An abberation, maybe. Pete's a relationship. Ish'ta's a relationship. (obviously I mean for Sam and Teal'c. Daniel hasn't been seeing Pete!) They could probably have worked Sarah (Daniel's Sarah -what's her last name??) into a relationship if they wanted to, but someone who there was no past history and who never showed up again, doesn't count as a relationship for me.

[ShadowMaat]

"Love" is more generally accepted because it is a positive emotion.
"Hate" is rather definitely negative and when you're dealing with real live people, for instance, it's considered bad manners to pile on the negativity.

A lot of it depends on the way it's expressed. In terms of the "I hate Pete" t-shirt, it showed a galling lack of tact, IMO. Just because you hate someone or something doesn't mean you have to advertise it so blatantly. And while Pete may be a fictional character, the actor playing him and the actors who act with him are quite real and they all have feelings.

Yes they're all grownups who are quite used to nasty comments and criticisms and such forth, but that doesn't mean that they LIKE them or want to be exposed to such things and there are tactful ways of expressing your displeasure that shouldn't involve bothering other people.

I have heard that Amanda is taking a lot of flak over the whole Pete issue and that she has been receiving some nasty letters about it. Personally, I think that's distasteful and unnecessary. Attacking Amanda for something her character did is just WRONG in my book. I'm sorry, but it is. And partly because she's been exposed to such ugliness, I think it would be nice for her to be able to relax and have fun with the fans- as she did at Gatecon- without being reminded of all the spite and anger that's out there.

Gatecon is supposed to be FUN. It's supposed to be about making friends and meeting the stars and generally reveling in all things Stargatey. Hate is not, as far as I know, a barrel of fun.

I hate Sam/Jack ship. I am not shy about expressing my displeasure even thought I know a lot of people- including some of my friends and quite a few of the producers- LOVE S/J ship. However, I do at least try to retain some degree of tact when I post and I try to put on some air of politeness about it. Most of the time, anyway. I don't parade around with "I hate Sam/Jack" on a t-shirt or in my sig or anything like that. I don't feel the need to advertise my negative emotions.

If I had worn an "I hate Daniel" shirt (regardless of how I feel about the character), I have no doubt that I would have been verbally accosted- at the very least!- by legions of pro-Daniel fans. But for Pete it's OK? That isn't fair, either.