Homosexual/bisexual characters?

[Trek_Girl42]

Irresistible - "Unattractive" man uses drug to basically rape an entire village's female population... all in a "humorous" way since the episode is supposedly humorous.
Irresponsible - Woman at the pub rejects Lucius' advances, yet after he stages another situation where he saves the town the very same woman can be seen sitting in his lap at the local pub.

Okay.....I'm not looking forward to those eps now.

[ladyjanus]

SG-1 was better in the beginning. More females in uniform, more of the techs were female and the SFs but as the years wore on the female faces got fewer and fewer. Atlantis is better too, two of the five main characters were women, and good portion of the supporting cast is female, but how many black or other faces do you see in the expedition, even though they were supposed to be multi-national?

The new doctor on Atlantis is a woman so that ups the ratio some, and after they lost the Ford character, they replaced him with Dex (uuuuuummmm, I think he's non-caucasian to some extent, but he does not look stereotypically black).

Again — white male writers write about white male characters for the most part. And if they are straight, well.....

ladyjanus

[FallenAngelII]

Okay.....I'm not looking forward to those eps now.

The thing with "Irresistible" is that I don't think the writers intended for the episode to touch upon rape. It's just that it didn't even occur to them that it was rape! That's how "bad" they are - stuck in what they know - How to be a white heterosexual man.

Which also explains what happens in "Irresponsible". Despite Lucius still being unattractive, the woman jumps on him when he shows strength.

SG-1 was better in the beginning. More females in uniform, more of the techs were female and the SFs but as the years wore on the female faces got fewer and fewer. Atlantis is better too, two of the five main characters were women, and good portion of the supporting cast is female, but how many black or other faces do you see in the expedition, even though they were supposed to be multi-national?

The new doctor on Atlantis is a woman so that ups the ratio some, and after they lost the Ford character, they replaced him with Dex (uuuuuummmm, I think he's non-caucasian to some extent, but he does not look stereotypically black).

Again — white male writers write about white male characters for the most part. And if they are straight, well.....

ladyjanus

Yes, but how well written are those Atlantis woman? How much character development have they gotten over the years when compared to their male colleagues?

Also, Jason Momoa (Ronon Dex) is from Hawaii IIRC.

[Trek_Girl42]

The thing with "Irresistible" is that I don't think the writers intended for the episode to touch upon rape. It's just that it didn't even occur to them that it was rape! That's how "bad" they are - stuck in what they know - How to be a white heterosexual man.

Which also explains what happens in "Irresponsible". Despite Lucius still being unattractive, the woman jumps on him when he shows strength.

Right.....from your (albeit)brief description, I can say right now, that makes no sense (at least to my psyche ).


I've changed my mind. I look forward to watching the ep to seeing if that remains the case.

[PG15]

Oh come on. Irresistable is just another twist on the old "love potion" plot. Are we so jaded these days that we have to look for disturbing and offensive subjects in everything?

I see you've conveniently left out all of the males infatuated with Lucius. What do you call that?

As for Irresponsible; yes, OF COURSE the women of a quaint, backwards, low-tech village is the same as the typical modern women. Yes, that's obviously true.

Look, Stargate, at its very core, is an old-time tale about a few heroes exploring the unknown. I think JF said it best once, during an interview. I forgot what he said, but he said something about the circle and all that good stuff. Therefore, you're going to find a lot of these old-time fairy tale/adventure story themes in the shows. That's what Stargate's always been.

If you're looking for a cutting edge, progressive story, you're not going to find it. On the other hand, if you're looking for an easy hour of entertainment, with relatable characters and good humor, then you should watch Stargate.

[FallenAngelII]

Yes, but the males (who just wanted to do Lucius' bidding) were never treated as potential sex partners.

[Trek_Girl42]

Oh come on. Irresistable is just another twist on the old "love potion" plot. Are we so jaded these days that we have to look for disturbing and offensive subjects in everything?

I see you've conveniently left out all of the males infatuated with Lucius. What do you call that?

As for Irresponsible; yes, OF COURSE the women of a quaint, backwards, low-tech village is the same as the typical modern women. Yes, that's obviously true.

Look, Stargate, at its very core, is an old-time tale about a few heroes exploring the unknown. I think JF said it best once, during an interview. I forgot what he said, but he said something about the circle and all that good stuff. Therefore, you're going to find a lot of these old-time fairy tale/adventure story themes in the shows. That's what Stargate's always been.

If you're looking for a cutting edge, progressive story, you're not going to find it. On the other hand, if you're looking for an easy hour of entertainment, with relatable characters and good humor, then you should watch Stargate.

Doesn't mean that the women have to act like floozies.

[Skydiver]

the writers' lack of ability to write women is precisely why i feel it'll be just fine if theynever intro a homosexual character

given that lucius was seen as a joke from the get go (and ok, so if they didn't see the issue in irresistable, after fan reaction they STILL didn't get it for irresponsible?????) do you REALLY trust these guys to handle a homosexual character as anything but a joke?

seriously. tehy write teyla as the token sexy alien, vala is a vamp, weir is the permissive maternal figure and sam since s7, has been the sum of her boyfriends and the one to say all those long lines taht they guys can't wrap their tongues around.

coop writes women like a teenage boys sees women. and under his direction, they never become anything else

brad is almost as bad, at least in not reining in the writers and their adolescent ideals.

Do you honestly trust them to have a:

dang the women on this planet are fine
guy says : the guys are too

scene and NOT turn it into a joke???

I think that they're incapable of the maturity to handle the situation as anything but a cheap laugh, so i think it'd be best if they just saved themselves some trouble and humiliation and not even go there.

not because i dont' want a homosexual character on the show..done right i don't care what thier orientation is, but because i don't trust these guys to do it with respect.

[Xicer]

Why are we talking about Lucius?

[Betelgeuze]

I think that they're incapable of the maturity to handle the situation as anything but a cheap laugh, so i think it'd be best if they just saved themselves some trouble and humiliation and not even go there

True, the writers have yet to show maturity in writing women and romantic situations. I would like to see a bi/gay character, but i also don't think the writers aren't capable of writing such a character in a mature way.


Perhaps they should invite a female writer to deal with the lousy representation of women in the show. The current writers seem to be stuck in a teenage mindset when it comes to women and romantic/sexual situations.

[Madeleine]

To an extent I agree with you, Sky, but however many gaffes and despite the pervading mildly misogynistic attitudes on the shows, they've also done a heck of a lot of good stuff, and if they really set their minds to writing something a bit more... inclusive, I bet they could.

And as to why it matters what a character's sexuality is, there's two answers. One is it doesn't. The other is that it's not nice for people to feel invisible. SF has traditionally done a good job of promoting inclusivity; black peope and women have often got a better deal from SF than from the other shows around at the time.

On one level it doesn't matter whether a character is male or female, but when there are lots of characters, it matters whether some are female, and which ones. Every time I see a screenful of male actors when I know that in RL half of all people are female (and that beyond this solar system in RL there are doubtless as many females as males ) I feel as if a little part of the show is telling me that my kind are not proper people or not normal people or not interesting people... just not worthy of being on TV in the same way that men are.

I get that from a lot of TV, and it's disappointing that I get it more from Stargate than from any other show. Stargate, more than any other TV I watch, gives me a message that women's purpose is to be there for men to fancy. Mreh.

I'd like there to be more women in guest, recurring, minor, one-off and major roles. I also think that there's a surprisingly small proportion of non-white actors across the board in Stargate. I'm not very savvy when it comes to the racial mix of the US or Canada, but there are other north american shows which manage to get a more varied population.

But I've spoken about all that in other threads, and in this thread I'm still of the opinion that just the existence of a gay person on the show - nothing OTT or issue-ridden, just being on the show and happenning to be gay - would be nice for the 10% (?) of the population who might by now be expecting TV to acknowledge that they exist as more than comic relief. An acknowledgement that you exist can be quite a big deal.

[Womble]

To an extent I agree with you, Sky, but however many gaffes and despite the pervading mildly misogynistic attitudes on the shows, they've also done a heck of a lot of good stuff, and if they really set their minds to writing something a bit more... inclusive, I bet they could.

And as to why it matters what a character's sexuality is, there's two answers. One is it doesn't. The other is that it's not nice for people to feel invisible. SF has traditionally done a good job of promoting inclusivity; black peope and women have often got a better deal from SF than from the other shows around at the time.

On one level it doesn't matter whether a character is male or female, but when there are lots of characters, it matters whether some are female, and which ones. Every time I see a screenful of male actors when I know that in RL half of all people are female (and that beyond this solar system in RL there are doubtless as many females as males ) I feel as if a little part of the show is telling me that my kind are not proper people or not normal people or not interesting people... just not worthy of being on TV in the same way that men are.

I get that from a lot of TV, and it's disappointing that I get it more from Stargate than from any other show. Stargate, more than any other TV I watch, gives me a message that women's purpose is to be there for men to fancy. Mreh.

Actually, I'd disagree with you here. Compared to your average sci-fi show, Stargate has a LOT of prominent female characters who are shown as being in positions of power or as solid professionals admired primarily for their work. When one thinks about females in Stargate, the names that come to mind are those of Weir, Frasier, Teyla or Carter- and they were never treated by the show as mere sexual objects who are there for the pleasure of men. However, you are largely correct about their treatment of minor female aliens.

I also think that there's a surprisingly small proportion of non-white actors across the board in Stargate.

I think the bigger problem isn't as much their numbers as their function. I've elaborated about it in the "Stargate as a neo-colonialist narrative" thread.

But I've spoken about all that in other threads, and in this thread I'm still of the opinion that just the existence of a gay person on the show - nothing OTT or issue-ridden, just being on the show and happenning to be gay - would be nice for the 10% (?) of the population who might by now be expecting TV to acknowledge that they exist as more than comic relief. An acknowledgement that you exist can be quite a big deal.

The problem here is that if they did introduce a gay character into the overwhelmingly straight Stargate environment, they would have had no choice but to make an issue out of it.

[Madeleine]

Actually, I'd disagree with you here. Compared to your average sci-fi show, Stargate has a LOT of prominent female characters who are shown as being in positions of power or as solid professionals admired primarily for their work. When one thinks about females in Stargate, the names that come to mind are those of Weir, Frasier, Teyla or Carter- and they were never treated by the show as mere sexual objects who are there for the pleasure of men. However, you are largely correct about their treatment of minor female aliens.

You can point to the series' female regulars, but I can point to far more numerous male regulars. Why? Why are there more men by far and always more men, in a show made by a species where 50% of us are female? I'm sorry but it's not enough for me that there's a woman in a show, or a few women. I want parity. Or at least a high enough percentage that it's not noticeable what sex predominates.

Over ten years, maybe there have been a lot of females in power, but there've still been many times fewer than the males. And as for the recurring characters... Martouf, Jacob, Narim, Kinsey, Simmons, John de Lancie, Maybourne, Woolsey ... where are the equivalent females?

Then there's the casting. Plenty of male characters who weren't blessed with the looks of adonis. Any ugly women though? Any past middle age? no comparison. women are all pretty, and in Atlantis any woman who isn't a regular will be ogled by at least two of the male characters.

Would Lucius or Urgo or Felger or [Fred Willard? Vala's dad - I forget his name] have been written or cast as unattractive middle aged women? Point me at the ep where a woman is allowed to be unattractive, irritating and 'comical'. (And okay, given how dire some of those eps were it's not that I want a female buffoon, I'm just pointing out that there is no parity, none whatsoever, between the women and the men in Stargate.) Nope, guest females are all pretty and young.

I think the bigger problem isn't as much their numbers as their function. I've elaborated about it in the "Stargate as a neo-colonialist narrative" thread.

You're right; I chose my words sloppily, and I agree with what you've said there.

The problem here is that if they did introduce a gay character into the overwhelmingly straight Stargate environment, they would have had no choice but to make an issue out of it.

I don't agree. I can see it being a minor little thing, if TPTB could choose so.

[SoulReaver]

You can point to the series' female regulars, but I can point to far more numerous male regulars. Why? Why are there more men by far and always more men, in a show made by a species where 50% of us are female? I'm sorry but it's not enough for me that there's a woman in a show, or a few women. I want parity. Or at least a high enough percentage that it's not noticeable what sex predominates.

also, why are there more whites by far and always more whites, in a show made by a species where only 10% of us are white ? I'm sorry but it's too much for me that there's so many whites in a show. I want equity. or at least a low enough percentage that it's noticeable what color does not predominate

[immhotep]

Just to put my two cents forward on the females in SG.
Sarah Gardener/Osiris was a good fleshed out and one of my favourate character.
Nirtii - great personality and good writing, also Asian.
Wraith queens - very cool and ok scenes
Freya of the Asgard - females from alien species, she was cool
Ishta - female warrior, love interest but also well written
Cassie - from what she had it was great
Catherine Langford-wasnt a major player but an important and well portrayed elterly woman
Shunak tealcs love interest but she wasnt badly written
Shar'ee - Daniels wife but alot of great scenes when she had them
Kate Miller - possible the best protrayed non regular female yet
Several tokra who were well written. The first council woman, several ones later on, with exception of Anise, were generally older and not extreamely attractive females.
OMA! - one of the best characters in SG period.
chanelor Travel of the Tollan - great again
alot of the nox - Ditto
There isnt a lack of females in SG IMO, there could be more but from those shown there has been an good mix over the year and some of my favourates have been female...and lets not forget adria who while being very hot was fearsome and not oogled at because she could snap your neck she wasnt a token she was a great character regardless of weather you agreed with S9/10 and the Ori, in terms of writing and plot and development she got more in that season than most of the regulars.

And as for the recurring characters... Martouf, Jacob, Narim, Kinsey, Simmons, John de Lancie, Maybourne, Woolsey ... where are the equivalent females?

If you look above many of them were the eqivalents of those men.
I dont think, if you look back on the whole of SG1 that it has always been the same as it is in atlantis, atlantis is pretty poor compared to Sg1 when it comes to casting female roles.