Form, essence, and ascension.

[Giantevilhead]

We humans are defined by both form and essence. Form is of course our body. Essence is something more insubstantial, our will, our resolve, our mind.

The Ancients and presumably the Ori ascended through refinement and evolution of form, with all those neat telepathic and telekinetic powers before reaching the point of ascension. Yet that may not the only way to ascend, at least two of Oma’s disciples were not advanced evolutionarily, Daniel and Shifu. Is it possible that Oma was trying to create a form of ascension, one purely through refinement of essence, through understanding, through force of will and resolve?

[the fifth man]

I never really thought about it like that. Interesting way of thinking of it.

[Giantevilhead]

It did sort of change throughout the show. In season 3 when we first met Oma, it was pretty much all about understanding, comprehension and all that good stuff but then with the more recent seasons it became more about biological evolution with Ayiana, Anubis, Khalek, and the Priors, with their fancy telepathic and telekinetic powers.

[the fifth man]

True, very true.

[sandyer]

We humans are defined by both form and essence. Form is of course our body. Essence is something more insubstantial, our will, our resolve, our mind.

The Ancients and presumably the Ori ascended through refinement and evolution of form, with all those neat telepathic and telekinetic powers before reaching the point of ascension. Yet that may not the only way to ascend, at least two of Oma’s disciples were not advanced evolutionarily, Daniel and Shifu. Is it possible that Oma was trying to create a form of ascension, one purely through refinement of essence, through understanding, through force of will and resolve?

So in that case a person with enough will could simply just accend even with out knowing about accention right? He just had to be stubburn enough.

[Giantevilhead]

No, it would mean that someone who had enough conviction would not need to be biologically advanced or the help of an ascended being which currently seems to be the only two ways people can ascend.

[DigiFluid]

I think I've decided to ignore the whole physical evolution until ascension thing. I liked the idea a whole lot better when it only involved purity of spirit and personal spiritual strength in order to ascend.

Specific SG-1 Season 9 Spoilers Below Relating to 9x09 "Prototype"



















I can reconcile this with the show by assuming that Anubis' attempt to evolve a human to the point of ascension was ultimately going to end in failure.

[vonbismarck]

I think I've decided to ignore the whole physical evolution until ascension thing. I liked the idea a whole lot better when it only involved purity of spirit and personal spiritual strength in order to ascend.

Specific SG-1 Season 9 Spoilers Below Relating to 9x09 "Prototype"



















I can reconcile this with the show by assuming that Anubis' attempt to evolve a human to the point of ascension was ultimately going to end in failure.

Who or what decides if a soul is pure enough for that being to ascend? Is there a God in the stargate universe that controls ascension? There can't be a definition of purity of one's soul as something like purity is subjective. If purity were the pre-requisite, then someone one/thing would have to be the judge and we all would have to strive for what he/she/it considers purity. If it is a biological thing though, purity would not matter and anyone would be able to ascend.

[macktheknife]

You raise up your head
And you ask, is this where it is?
And somebody points to you and says
It's his
And you say, what’s mine?
And somebody else says, where what is?
And you say, oh my god
Am I here all alone?

Because something is happening here
But you don’t know what it is
Do you, mister jones?

You find yourself in a place that you do not belong...
It is not completely unknown - like a subconscious dream maybe...
For now though, you can not recall or make sense of where you are, and leave feeling a bit foolish.
That will pass. You know it will.
You swear to yourself that one day, you will return here, and know whats going on, right Mr.Jones?

[Giantevilhead]

I think I've decided to ignore the whole physical evolution until ascension thing. I liked the idea a whole lot better when it only involved purity of spirit and personal spiritual strength in order to ascend.

Are you also going to ignore Anubis and the entire population of Abydos?

[puddlejumper747]

I'm not entirely sure what we're really arguing about here.

Here's how I understand it:
1) The Ancients/Alterans evolved to a point where they were able to ascend.
2) Those who are already ascended can help others ascend quickly, bypassing the evolutionary route.
3) Oma decided that she was going to help others ascend, but only those who were "pure of spirit".
4) Being "pure of spirit" is not a true requirement for ascension, evidenced by the Ori and the fact that Anubis tricked Oma into ascending him. (It was simply a requirement that Oma placed upon her followers.)
5) Anubis was rapidly advancing humans to a point where they could ascend themselves to attack the Ancients.

Did I miss anything? Do we have any points of confusion or disagreement? Hope this helps....

[the fifth man]

Whatever it takes to ascend, count me in. I would so love to unlock some of the mysteries of the universe.