Stargate College Class! Help!!!

[Jeyla4ever]

Here we go again...another interesting and challenging question from Whistler.....

Beauty...Brains....how comical that they both start with the letter "B"....
Well, let's see...I do look at beauty...and brains...I look for character development and I look for challenging and thought provoking dialogue among the characters...Especially in the female roles, I look for characters that intrigue me and that I can find something to entertain but most importantly to critique about..yes...I do like to critique....I guess because I learn something from it..or perhaps not!

In either case, I think you do have a point...but I do think that they are looking for beautiful and attractive women...Just not the norm of what is consider attractive in the spotlight of Hollywood right now...

I bought the Rising DVD and I believe that it was Brad Wright that stated that he knew from the very beginning phases of Atlantis that he wanted a non military woman to command Atlantis...He knew exactly what he was looking for and he found it in Weir....He mentions how when he sees Torri, she just personifies strength and the ability to lead a city like Atlantis from a non-military stand point...I loved that! He was not looking at beauty...he was looking for a female leader...and that is powerful....Same thing with Teyla...He knew he wanted someone that would be a strong, courageous and at the same time a soulfoul woman..and just looking at Rachel she interprets all of those qualities..she is just that! So, I think these characters are so great because the writers were looking for something beyond beauty...They are beautiful woman...I don't know how anyone would say that they are not...and I think they are drop dead gorgeous..If I may...because their not only beautiful on the outside but their inner beauty is reflected in their characters as well....VAlA...I can't stand...and I don't think she is beautiful at all...She has an awesome body..but if you look at her face..she is not your ordinary beauty....but that is just my opinion...Carter, Frasier...they aren't drop dead gorgeous either...

Today's woman has changed and our perceptions of women have changed drastically...go back a several years and look at what television considered beautiful and compare it to today's beauty and it is not the same...Today's women likes to be treated equal to men in some things but at the same time we like to preserve what makes us different from men...We like to have the same positions as men but we also like to continue to dress and walk differently..why because we are different...Today's working woman likes to see herself as capable of accomplishing anything and everything that a man can do and she doesn't have to be gorgeous to do it..and that is why television today can get away with taking a regular beauty and turn her into a bombshell...but when you look at them when they first started off, they are nothing compare to what they have turned them out to be...and yes...I think Stargate writers and producers do care about beauty..isn't this one of the strongest arguments against Teyla...that they are going for a specific persona because of her outfits? And what about the fact that Torri now is loaded with makeup...again, I just saw the Rising DVD in my 65" HighDefenition TV and she hardly has any makeup and frankly, not her best look...and neither does Rachel...her hairdo was horrible and she had much less makeup than what she does now and didn't have her skimpy outfit....

Reality...looks does matter on TV....it's just that they are opening a different kind of beauty and letting us see a different type of beauty...one that is dictated by them..but they are still prying for our eyes...and our approval..the advantage, if any, of this is that they are also recognizing the importance of women today and our role in society as females that can lead just as good if not better than any men in any type of leadership role. And this is what I love and look for in my favorite female characters...go back to Camryn Manheim from the Practice...again...I couldn't think of any on SciFi...an overweight woman who over the years of playing this characters became one of the strongest and most admired actresses in Hollywood..but it took awhile and it took several pounds off and several makeover...but it did happen...is she considered a bombshell..no...but she is one of the few that has broken the mold on what a strong female character can bring to a show besides just looks...and that to me is very significant as a woman....but, frankly, how many more examples like this do we have? Not much...and still we have a long way to go...

So, let's not go and say that now they are not interested in looks..YEAH RIGHT! It's just that now they have added a new characteristic to the stereotypical way of looking at women on TV...but frankly, I think SCIFI has a long way to go........we still see the leather and black tights..and the whole she bangs! (did I spell this right) for some that is enough, for others it's just partial and for most of us, it is not enough and we do look for women characters that slightly shed some light on what a real women in the real world is capable of accomplishing regardless of her looks...
Is SciFi there yet? I don't think so.....but maybe they are trying...and that is something.

[majortrip]

Okay, here's my two cents.

I don't see the women on SciFi or most other science fiction programming as drop-dead gorgeous, either, initially, with the possible exception of Rachel Luttrell. Teyla was not very glamorous in S1. However, they become more beautiful to me over time. If I had seen Gillian Anderson or Torri Higginson or Katee Sackhoff in public, I may have not thought her to be stand-out, but pretty or natural looking. These women become more beautiful or physically appealing to me over time and as I get to know the character she plays.

In fact, if scifi were to take a woman with model looks like Molly Sims or Eva Longoria and plopped her into a role like Dr. Weir, I think I instictually would have trouble taking that character seriously. Shallow, perhaps. I think an actress has to have a certain amount of skill and seasoning to pull off science fiction. This is a genre in which not only the actors must use their imaginations, so must the viewers. I cannot enjoy a program in which I have to try to hard to make the pieces fit, and I will lose interest and stop watching.

On the beauty side of it, it works that way for male characters, too. I am a Joe Flanigan fan, but if he did not make the role of Sheppard work for me, I would have trouble watching, even though I find him physically beautiful. Take David Duchovny. Some people don't find him attractive at all, but I did as Mulder.

Just as actresses become more beautiful to me as their role on a show grows on me, I find it interesting to me that many women who are thought to be more traditionally attractive are in scifi roles where their natural looks are obscured. Two that come to mind are Jolene Blaylock (Enterprise) and Jeri Ryan (Voyager). If T'Pol looked like a model (from the neck up ), I don't know if I would have been interested.

[wikeja]

IMO, Weir is captivatingly bea-u-ti-ful. I could look into those eyes forev....'til Stargate Infinity.
Come on, she's got great eyes, ya gotta admit.
I think Lexa Doig is drop dead gorgeous. Teyla is exotic and mysterious but I like her more based on character than appearance.
Sam is a hotty sometimes and other times plain Jane.

[Jeyla4ever]

What...I found this all the way on page 6...this is too interesting to be way down there...
I've already answer the question so...
let's see...anyone else want to try it...

Teyla is beautiful...(Joe Flannigan called her in the Rising DVD Ravishing Rachel)
Weir is okay...she does have beautiful eyes....
Sam is alright....strong, smart and attractive
Janet is distinctively beautiful....intelligent, caring and elegant

That is just my opinion....

[srg]

I'm sure there are some whacky places in the US you could get degrees on this sort of thing. I'm sure I remember a guy getting a degree in star trek or something like that.

srg

[SnoggingPicard]

Whistler -- thought I'd pop in and say hi on your thread. Miss you and I hope everything's going well with your class. Keep us updated, kiddo!

[xkawaiix]

Okay, I'm think I'm going to give a shot at Sam.

When she came to the SGC, she tried hard to make her self seem equal; to seem as one of the guys. To act tough and be a soldier. But, she has also shown a motherly love like in Singularity (sp?) where she had grown attached to Cassy and refused to let her die alone. And her smarts. She's definately a genius no doubt. And spunky. And strong. She's also a lady looking for love... even though a lot of her men die... even though I have no clue as to why she would search when he's right there! Well, tecnically he's in DC now.

Anyway, to sum this short paragraph, Samantha Carter was first a soldier fighting for equality, saying "Hey, I can't be smart, and spunky at the same time." Then as time passed, she started to drop her guard a bit more and showed more of a feminine side. She showed that she's a soldier but not a robot! That she has a motherly love inside her, that she's caring, she gets concered, she cries, and she, like everyone else, is searching for that special someone. So, in a way, Sam's like an eveyday person with an extraordinary and extremely dangerous job.

They're all pretty much like everyday women with very important roles. Look as Master and Commander or whatever show has the woman as president. Some men think that because we're women, we can't lead a nation... or we can't lead at all! Some men think that because we're woman, our humanity and caring nature is a disadvantage! Maybe it's not, maybe it helps us see what's happening in someone elses shoes and there for, makes us want to do something about it! Maybe it's our advantage, maybe it's our weakness, maybe it's both.

Scifi women have the gift of proving the people who think like that wrong. We can too lead a nation!
-pouts-

... well that was a lot longer than I thought. Maybe I'm just over looking all of this or... or thinking too hard?

[Whistler84]

I'm sorry I haven't been around much lately, but it's a general overload of work thing that's keeping me busy. I'll try to start posting in GW again sometime tomorrow, and especially in this thread with an update about my class. Sorry for the lapse in activity guys.

But don't I get an excused absense, what with being the instructor and all?

[Whistler84]

okay, question. I'm splitting SG-1 and SGA into two days worth of discussion in my class.

Day one - SG-1. I'll be talking about Sam, Vala, and yes, even Fraiser (you can thank NotAscended for that.) It'll be a 40 min discussion, with 40 minutes at the end dedicated to media. But I need an episode of SG-1 to air during that time, and I was thinking the episode "Hathor," which, if my recollection is correct, is when all the men of SGC are under the spell of Hathor, and Sam and Fraiser have to save the day. I'll have to do some editing for timing issues, but I should be able to play most of that episode.

Problem is, there's no Vala in that one, and for people in my class unfamiliar with her character, they'll be at a disadvantage in regards to her character. Of course, the episodes *with* Vala have very little of Sam and absolutely none of Fraiser, so I think I'm in a bit of a bind. Does anybody have any better suggestions for an episode to watch? Something besides Hathor? I know it's inconcievable to have an episode with all three women, but if you have any suggestions or preferences for any one episode, I'm all ears.

For SGA, another bind. Here's a question that's always got me in a pickle - WHY DO THE PTB FEEL IT NECESSARY TO DISTANCE THE TWO FEMALE CHARACTERS FROM EACH OTHER???

I've been looking for an episode where it shows plenty of both Weir and Teyla, but it's difficult. My first thought was 'Suspicion,' because that's the first (and practically only) time that we have interaction between these two women. However, I'm not a fan of that episode, and would much prefer to show an episode that doesn't put me to sleep. So, then I though, 'Before I Sleep' - Great Weir ep, but PROBLEM, no Teyla. Then I thought 'The Gift' - Good Teyla ep, but Weir doesn't have a big part. Then I thought 'Trinity' - but I don't like that episode either. So, then I thought 'Letters from Pegasis' with has plenty of Weir and Teyla right? Not to mention its a clip show, so newcomers in my class will have an easy time following. But, I think, some people really disliked Teyla in that episode . . . So, I'm kinda confused.

Suggestions, people? Help!!! I'll take suggestions for both shows, and then put up a poll. You can vote for whichever episode you think I should air. Thanks!

[majortrip]

I think "Hathor" is an excellent choice for the SG-1 section. Not only does it depict Sam and Janet working together to save the menfolk, it also shows them sharing the tribulations of being a female office surrounded by men. I personally don't think Vala is an important part of SG-1.

I think "The Gift" would be nice for SGA. It has a lot of Teyla background and shows her concern for how people see her as an alien on the base and how her own people feel about her. Also, I think Weir has an important part in this episode, as it shows how she contributes her knowledge to the deciphering mysteries in Pegasus AND the uncomfortable decisions she is forced to make as leader of the expedition.

[xkawaiix]

I have no idea. Maybe someone could make a music video? Or you could maybe take snips of the characters alone. For example, Janet had a big episode in The Broca Divide. Then you could show snips of Sam and her as Major/Colonel Carter and another as just plain old Sam. And Vala could have snips of her seducing men to do her bidding. And For Weir and Teyla the same.

Maybe you should just show Hathor anyway. Hathor was an episode which showed GIRL!Power while the boys were over there with the Goddess of rock, sex, and... something else. Just a suggestion.

[Purpleyin]

okay, question. I'm splitting SG-1 and SGA into two days worth of discussion in my class.

Day one - SG-1. I'll be talking about Sam, Vala, and yes, even Fraiser (you can thank NotAscended for that.) It'll be a 40 min discussion, with 40 minutes at the end dedicated to media. But I need an episode of SG-1 to air during that time, and I was thinking the episode "Hathor," which, if my recollection is correct, is when all the men of SGC are under the spell of Hathor, and Sam and Fraiser have to save the day. I'll have to do some editing for timing issues, but I should be able to play most of that episode.

Obviously there is no solution to that problem of not having all 3 women, though you could do a condensed clip show for Vala maybe, or a music vid...? Er, or not.

Only other episode I could suggest would be emancipation, but I know alot of people don't like that. Really Hathor sounds like the best one to me.

For SGA, another bind. Here's a question that's always got me in a pickle - WHY DO THE PTB FEEL IT NECESSARY TO DISTANCE THE TWO FEMALE CHARACTERS FROM EACH OTHER???

I've been looking for an episode where it shows plenty of both Weir and Teyla, but it's difficult. My first thought was 'Suspicion,' because that's the first (and practically only) time that we have interaction between these two women. However, I'm not a fan of that episode, and would much prefer to show an episode that doesn't put me to sleep. So, then I though, 'Before I Sleep' - Great Weir ep, but PROBLEM, no Teyla. Then I thought 'The Gift' - Good Teyla ep, but Weir doesn't have a big part. Then I thought 'Trinity' - but I don't like that episode either. So, then I thought 'Letters from Pegasis' with has plenty of Weir and Teyla right? Not to mention its a clip show, so newcomers in my class will have an easy time following. But, I think, some people really disliked Teyla in that episode . . . So, I'm kinda confused.

Suggestions, people? Help!!! I'll take suggestions for both shows, and then put up a poll. You can vote for whichever episode you think I should air. Thanks!

Shame you can't show Rising... but condensing that into 40 minutes would be even more of a nightmare. I think The Gift has enough Weir in the merit showing, and I never felt LFP showed Teyla in a bad light, just that she had the guts to question her faith in Sheppard and his judgement/priorities.

When is this class happening? Because it's possible one of the upcoming episodes might be good, like The Long Goodbye. Otherwise, what about The Eye - shows Elizabeth well and it does have Teyla coming to the rescue, not so much character but still good for both - and although it's the second of a 2 parter it does have a recap for the first part so it might not be that confusing at all.

[Whistler84]

Obviously there is no solution to that problem of not having all 3 women, though you could do a condensed clip show for Vala maybe, or a music vid...? Er, or not.

Only other episode I could suggest would be emancipation, but I know alot of people don't like that. Really Hathor sounds like the best one to me.

Shame you can't show Rising... but condensing that into 40 minutes would be even more of a nightmare. I think The Gift has enough Weir in the merit showing, and I never felt LFP showed Teyla in a bad light, just that she had the guts to question her faith in Sheppard and his judgement/priorities.

When is this class happening? Because it's possible one of the upcoming episodes might be good, like The Long Goodbye. Otherwise, what about The Eye - shows Elizabeth well and it does have Teyla coming to the rescue, not so much character but still good for both - and although it's the second of a 2 parter it does have a recap for the first part so it might not be that confusing at all.

The class will start in Janurary, and all I'm doing right now is prep work. The adminstration wants this planned so they know you're not just 'foolin' around' in the class all semester long . . . I think I'm tentatively schedualing these two Stargate class for around beginning of Febuary (near my birthday - Feb. 8. A gift to myself!)

And as for Teyla in 'Letters from Pegases,' I liked her in that episode, and never really got the problem most people had with her in that episode. But I am aware that people thought she was rude and disrespectful and etc . . . But I didn't get that at all.

Anyway, so far I'm getting a concensus for Hathor and the Gift. Hmmm . . . I have to rewatch the Gift for better recollection, because I always focus so much on Teyla-development in that episode that I don't really remember how big a role Weir has. Anybody care to feel me in?

[xkawaiix]

No, I don't think that Weir had a big roll in it either.

[SnoggingPicard]

"Hathor" is probably the best that you'll be able to do for Sg-1 since it does have both Carter and Frasier in really great roles. Vala...I don't know. I'm not a fan of her at all, so I don't even pay attention when she's on screen half the time. Maybe it was her lounging about the infirmary in her lingerie that turned me off...anyway, I'm not sure what you'd do for her.

For Atlantis, I think I'd have to go with "The Gift" or "Suspicion". "The Gift" is a wonderful, wonderful episode for Teyla and like someone mentioned earlier, it does have okay Weir stuff as well -- the difficult decisions she has to make regarding Atlantis and those under her, her interactions with Shep and Teyla. You're right, it's hard to get the two of these together in an episode that does both of them justice. I know you don't like "Suspicion", but that might be your best bet. I think one of the reasons that it isn't my favorite as well is just because it is such an early show and the characters aren't as well-developed yet. Also, Weir's interaction with Bates got under my skin a bit, but that does have Weir and Teyla directly interacting -- quite rare for the series.