Stargate College Class! Help!!!

[chyron]

Darn, I just posted something in another thread that probably should have been posted here OK, here goes...
I am a woman and I do not think Teyla is dressed seductively. I have theorized that some of her costuming may be culturally based (Athosian culture, that is) but most of the time we see her in BDUs. Rachel Luttrell is a beautiful woman playing a strong, spiritual character. THAT's my focus. I take her seriously. I don't think she was terribly underdeveloped in S1- we actually know a lot about her. I agree that anyone who does not take Teyla seriously, sees her as useless, or who bashes the character for any other reason are generally shallow themselves. Beauty is completely subjective. Anyone watching a character in whatever media who cannot get past looks definitely needs some character development himself (or herself). Oh, and I expect to see characters from planets other than Earth dress differently. It helps me recognize they are not Earthlings.

The only thing that I've noticed in terms of female attire is that it was typically the goa'uld female system lords that were more on the racy side, but then only seldom (thinking of Hathor - "You shall have the honor of being our first new Jaffa". Gateheads will know the scene exactly.)As a male, I would say that overall the SG1 franchise has been very good in a holding a high respect for women and not using the charcters (or actresses) in an exploitive or demeaning manner. In fact, I don't think there's a can't think of any respectable Sci-Fi that's demeaning of woman. (Barbarella of course *NOT* fitting in that category. Something about Jane Fonda in a orgasmatron just seems to disqualify it.)

[majortrip]

The only thing that I've noticed in terms of female attire is that it was typically the goa'uld female system lords that were more on the racy side, but then only seldom (thinking of Hathor - "You shall have the honor of being our first new Jaffa". Gateheads will know the scene exactly.)As a male, I would say that overall the SG1 franchise has been very good in a holding a high respect for women and not using the charcters (or actresses) in an exploitive or demeaning manner. In fact, I don't think there's a can't think of any respectable Sci-Fi that's demeaning of woman. (Barbarella of course *NOT* fitting in that category. Something about Jane Fonda in a orgasmatron just seems to disqualify it.)

I agree that the SG shows have been good to women. Star Trek, too. I guess my disappointment stems from some focus on costuming (mostly from other women) and not the characters themselves. We tell our kids not to judge a book by its covers, then turn around and do that ourselves. Yes, people will judge you by your appearance, but I think that's lazy. It takes time to get to know what's between the cover of that book, but we don't want to invest the time to do so.

I think scifi is a wonderful genre for women (and men), especially if the setting is futuristic. And, no, "Barbarella" doesn't qualify in my book either. I don't think that movie had much value to begin with. As for scifi, I don't see the explotation element either, and that's what keeps me watching the genre.

[SnoggingPicard]

Grace is one of those eps either people get or they don't. I happened originally to fall into that second category.

Grace was about Samantha Carter the person. We've seen Samantha Carter the scientist, the soldier, the hero, the friend, the daughter...Grace rolls all of that up and gets past all the things that usually defines her (typically the way she pulls a solution out of her...uh...head) and just leaves her.

She's typically a force of nature who blazes through the stargate on a near daily basis and lives off of the adrenaline fueled rush she gets from her work...but here, she's just herself. And the hallucinations begin...each a different aspect of her personality...each either helping or hindering her from figuring things out.

So there she is, all by herself, marooned on a space ship with a serious head injury. She has to save herself but everything she tries, fails...leaving her time to think; about how to escape, sure, but also about her life, her goals, her objectives.

And for the first time in who knows how long, Samantha stops and really considers what she wants for herself beyond the naquadah reactors and P90's. Her "father" helps her see that she's missing out on a deep, rich committed relationship because she feared that any serious relationship would end in heartache. "Jack" helped her consider the possibility that maybe her feelings for him were based on the fact that he was out of reach.

So Grace was a Samantha Carter introspective...where she was FORCED to confront the areas of her life she'd been ignoring. It showed her as Sam the human being...not Sam the soldier or Sam the scientist...but just a woman who was taking a moment to consider her priorities in life and try to figure out if she was truly getting everything out of life she wanted and needed.

Samantha Carter is brilliant, brave, strong, etc...yet still fallible and entirely human. The same woman who can blow up a sun and take out a slew of enemy soldiers advancing on her position while hardly breaking a sweat gets nervous and jittery and clumsy with anything having to do with her personal feelings...which I personally enjoy because I know what it's like to have feelings for a guy who's out of your reach at the time. But did she ever put her feelings over duty here? Nope. Responsibility and duty and honor came first for her. Did she and Jack respond correctly with regard to their feelings all the time? Heavens no. But that adds depth and reality to her character. Great with professional stuff...terrible with personal stuff.

This is what makes her such a compelling character for me to watch and a genuine role model in this genre or in tv as a whole...as she's someone who is gifted, for sure...but who makes mistakes; but then doesn't let her mistakes keep her down.

She perseveres...and for me, that inspires.

OMG! Wow...just...wow! This is great. I'm giving you green. Ditto for me on everything that you stated here so wonderfully!

[stargate barbie]

Regarding the sam considered giving up her career for a man conversation. not really, she just said "what if?". and it was one line in 8 years. yes she may have thought, would we have a chance then? but it was brief, and she knew that neither one of them would actually have to do that for the other blah blah blah. if anyone cares, this could be continued on a ship thread.


the point is, hey! she did have a bad concussion when she thought it. and! she was marooned on a space ship. and it doesn't weaken her as a woman, or human to think such things.
did anybody think less of jack, when he was shown to consider quitting (briefly) in threads or any other episode he considered it.

now a question. does that qualify as a double standard, and if so, should double standards be discussed in the class?

[Heru'urs_first_prime]

Decal classes...........OH MY GOD! WOW

im on the university page at the moment and having alook at what its like! What a brillinat idea!

[Uber]

Regarding the sam considered giving up her career for a man conversation. not really, she just said "what if?". and it was one line in 8 years. yes she may have thought, would we have a chance then? but it was brief, and she knew that neither one of them would actually have to do that for the other blah blah blah. if anyone cares, this could be continued on a ship thread.


the point is, hey! she did have a bad concussion when she thought it. and! she was marooned on a space ship. and it doesn't weaken her as a woman, or human to think such things.
did anybody think less of jack, when he was shown to consider quitting (briefly) in threads or any other episode he considered it.

now a question. does that qualify as a double standard, and if so, should double standards be discussed in the class?

Well to be fair, both of them focused on their standing orders...what was important to them first and foremost was duty to their country and to the responsibilities that they held. If they are indeed involved now, then it is after they had taken care of what needed to be taken care of...and ponder as they might have through the years, neither of them gave into the temptation to cross the line.

I'm not trying to talk about ship and rehash the argument as it relates to "do they have feelings for each other or not" or "is there chemistry or not" or how many in fandom (including myself) desire to see them happy in a relationship. But for the sake of what I'm writing, I'm going to stipulate that the feelings and chemistry et al are there, they do exist and how does or should Samantha deal with these feelings as it pertains to her role as an officer in the United States Air Force, a role model, a heroine, a human being and a woman on television.

I'm of the opinion that, had Sam and Jack been able to talk in Threads before the replicators and Goa'uld had been summarily defanged, they both would have acknowledged that they genuinely had feelings for each other but that they still had work to do and could therefore not act on their feelings...but rather, they must continue to set aside their personal needs until they had taken care of business. What happened after that is another story...but my point is that as awkwardly and as poorly and as humanly as she responded to her feelings over the years, she never let them get in the way of doing what needed to be done.

[stargate barbie]

Well to be fair, both of them focused on their standing orders...what was important to them first and foremost was duty to their country and to the responsibilities that they held. If they are indeed involved now, then it is after they had taken care of what needed to be taken care of...and ponder as they might have through the years, neither of them gave into the temptation to cross the line.

I'm not trying to talk about ship and rehash the argument as it relates to "do they have feelings for each other or not" or "is there chemistry or not" or how many in fandom (including myself) desire to see them happy in a relationship. But for the sake of what I'm writing, I'm going to stipulate that the feelings and chemistry et al are there, they do exist and how does or should Samantha deal with these feelings as it pertains to her role as an officer in the United States Air Force, a role model, a heroine, a human being and a woman on television.

I'm of the opinion that, had Sam and Jack been able to talk in Threads before the replicators and Goa'uld had been summarily defanged, they both would have acknowledged that they genuinely had feelings for each other but that they still had work to do and could therefore not act on their feelings but rather they must continue to set aside their personal needs until they had taken care of business. What happened after that is another story...but my point is that as awkwardly and as poorly and as humanly as she responded to her feelings over the years, she never let them get in the way of doing what needed to be done.

oh, i agree with you. my point is that when sam uttered one line about giving up her job, it gets talked about in terms of why should she give up her job for a man, and does it make her a weaker person that she would consider it. when jack did it, did it get talked about it, and if so was it in the same terms. and if not, what are the thoughts on that? is it a double standard? and why does that happen?
i'm a shipper, and i'd love to know that they are together, without either one of them giving up the air force. (and i have theories on that too, but i'll not discuss it here cos i know there are anti shippers here).

i didn't think twice about the quitting line in grace. knew it wouldn't happen a la the context of the scene. i did think about the jack quitting hint in threads, because there was more of a suggestion that he might actually do it.
now, i didn't think any less of either of them as a result of their respective scenes. i don't think it weakened either character. in fact i thought it made the situations more believeable to me. made it more serious.

i think its important to investigate double standards and how women are viewed in comparisson to men in these situations, because as we are both aware, there are still people in the world who think that women are weak at the best of times. even when they display tremendous strengths. i can only imagine how such people feel when a female character shows a caring, vulnerable more human side. oiy.

[majortrip]

i think its important to investigate double standards and how women are viewed in comparisson to men in these situations, because as we are both aware, there are still people in the world who think that women are weak at the best of times. even when they display tremendous strengths. i can only imagine how such people feel when a female character shows a caring, vulnerable more human side. oiy.

I think sometimes there is a double standard. Displays of emotion or vulnerablity do not equal weakness in my opinion if they don't keep the decision maker from making good decisions. People gather strength from all sorts of sources. On the flip side, stoicism is not always a positive attribute if it interfers in the decision making process either. I read somewhere recently in a magazine (please forgive me, I do not recall which one) that fifty percent of men admitted they cry on occasion. THAT will never be depicted on televison because tears equal weakness, even if its reflective of what goes on in reality.

As far as the Sam example of quitting her job for a man, I'm curious to know if the outcry came from men or women. I sometimes see a double standard applied by WOMEN in this situation, as well as in my personal life. I am college educated, I am proud that I earned my degree, but I am currently a stay-at-home mom. Most of the criticism I hear personally or read about regarding my situation comes from other women, including my own and my husband's family- "You earned this degree but you don't do anything with it."

[Whistler84]

I feel I must make a statement here. It may be hard to believe but the following is absolutely true. When I was first introduced to Teyla, I immediately noticed she was attractive. Before the episode was over, I saw a strong, trustworthy, loyal, already deep character. What this says to me is those few who frequented the threads you referenced were probably more shallow and less introspective than the average, intelligent (male or female) viewer. I find it difficult to comprehend how anyone could view Teyla as anything other than the redeeming character she has always been. I cannot comment on TPTB's choice of her attire because I do not watch her to see if she is showing more flesh this ep than last but to see what I learn about her as a person. Perhaps I do not fit the normal stereotype of a red-blooded male but I can assure you I lust as much as the next. Perhaps if TPTB had created a shallow character I would feel differently. However, from my view, it is better that she is dressed as I would expect an exceptionally attractive woman to dress. It breaks the stereotype that a woman must dress conservatively to be taken seriously. I certainly take her seriously. I feel I must applaud TPTB in all respects on the developement of her character.

Again I welcome all discussion, agreement or not, because it is important to properly explore all sides of the issue.

I agree completely with your views of Teyla. She is a fascinating women, that embodies a whole lot of redeeming qualities. But in some places people do talk about her in a less-then-pleasing manner, mainly centered on her beauty. Your disbelief is probably justified, considering what GW is like. But other forums aren't as . . . intellectual, and everything I said yesterday is unfortunately true. I could not find the exact forum thread I was looking for, but here's two that show pretty much the same phenomena I was talking about. (Note: These two are actually mild in comparison to my prime example. After you take a look, that thought will scare you.)

http://boards.sonypictures.com/board...ighlight=teyla

and

http://boards.sonypictures.com/board...ighlight=teyla

[Whistler84]

Wow. Great conversation. There's no way I can respond to all of this, but I guess I don't have to because you guys are keeping it going amongst yourselves!!! YAY!!!! I've given quite a few people here green, and in fact, the system has denied me from handing out double greens (even though several people here deserve it). Keep it up, and I'll hope to check back once the day is over.

My co-instructor is going to love this!!! Either that, or be afraid. Very, very afraid.

[Whistler84]

Decal classes...........OH MY GOD! WOW

im on the university page at the moment and having alook at what its like! What a brillinat idea!

For a listing of current decal classes offered at UC berekely, you can check out this website. Since you're curious . . .

http://www.decal.org/current.php

As I already said, I took 'Simpsons and Philosphy' last year and am currently taking 'Batman: American Mythology." Both were great!!!

[chyron]

For a listing of current decal classes offered at UC berekely, you can check out this website. Since you're curious . . .

http://www.decal.org/current.php

As I already said, I took 'Simpsons and Philosphy' last year and am currently taking 'Batman: American Mythology." Both were great!!!

You know it'd be really cool to develop your own course as a hobby. Not that I'm a research geek or anything.....Sit 3PO! Sit! Good doggie

[Uber]

oh, i agree with you. my point is that when sam uttered one line about giving up her job, it gets talked about in terms of why should she give up her job for a man, and does it make her a weaker person that she would consider it. when jack did it, did it get talked about it, and if so was it in the same terms. and if not, what are the thoughts on that? is it a double standard? and why does that happen?
i'm a shipper, and i'd love to know that they are together, without either one of them giving up the air force. (and i have theories on that too, but i'll not discuss it here cos i know there are anti shippers here).

i didn't think twice about the quitting line in grace. knew it wouldn't happen a la the context of the scene. i did think about the jack quitting hint in threads, because there was more of a suggestion that he might actually do it.
now, i didn't think any less of either of them as a result of their respective scenes. i don't think it weakened either character. in fact i thought it made the situations more believeable to me. made it more serious.

i think its important to investigate double standards and how women are viewed in comparisson to men in these situations, because as we are both aware, there are still people in the world who think that women are weak at the best of times. even when they display tremendous strengths. i can only imagine how such people feel when a female character shows a caring, vulnerable more human side. oiy.

Yes...it is most certainly a double standard. When he considers the idea as a hypothetical...he's being reasonable and considering his options...but when she considers the idea as a hypothetical she is considered weak and wishy washy.

Same with the issue of leadership. No one said anything about Jack being weak when he considered quitting as the head of the SGC...but when Sam told Jack in the same episode that she was kind of second guessing herself for an order she gave...you would have thought she had had some sort of emotional breakdown in front of everyone by the over the top reaction some had in the fanbase calling her weak and indecisive and clearly not capable of command.

How about they're both human beings who don't always do everything perfectly...but just do the best they can for all the right reasons???

[chyron]

Yes...it is most certainly a double standard. When he considers the idea as a hypothetical...he's being reasonable and considering his options...but when she considers the idea as a hypothetical she is considered weak and wishy washy.

Same with the issue of leadership. No one said anything about Jack being weak when he considered quitting as the head of the SGC...but when Sam told Jack in the same episode that she was kind of second guessing herself for an order she gave...you would have thought she had had some sort of emotional breakdown in front of everyone by the over the top reaction some had in the fanbase calling her weak and indecisive and clearly not capable of command.

How about they're both human beings who don't always do everything perfectly...but just do the best they can for all the right reasons???

A double-standard by definition means that there are two (or more) standards applied to a situation or person. I believe that many times when we say that there is a double-standard when it comes to men and women, we are actually overlooking the fact that men and women are different from each. There are times when is important to judge a person based on performance as in the workplace or in criminal proceedings. However, there are times when differences are clearly to be expected. For example, when it comes to parenting, I expect different things from men and different things from women - not that they aren't equally competent as parents, just that the one will approach it from a masculine viewpoint and the other from a feminine viewpoint. Perhaps the difference in Jack & Sam in looking at leaving the SGC has more to do with how men & women process things as opposed to the qualifications of a man or woman to be in a leadership position. It is widely regarded that men sort out things internally while women sort out things by talking them out. Taking that into consideration, their actions take on a whole knew meaning. It might be that Jack is seen as reasonable & considering his options because he's processing things internally. Sam might seeam wishy-washy because she's processing things externally. The wishy-washyness is in both, but only Sam's is seen because she's vocalizing things outward to process them. Since I expet women to verbalize things and talk them through, I wouldn't see that as any showing incompetence in being a leader. If she ran away and failed to charge, that would be incompentent. Side note - I think that all leaders inheritently(sp) question themselves.

[Crichton]

I haven't read all the posts but the topic is really interesting.
Have you considered focusing a class on Laura Roselen in BSG. There's quite a few topics to consider on that show regarding women in sci fi, especially around a female President, turned fugitve, turned religous leader, back to President.

Will you be showing video in class??