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Stargate College Class! Help!!!

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  • Whistler84
    replied
    Okay, sorry for the long delay. School has been busy, busy. I've read everybody's comments, and rest assured I'm taking thorough notes on all of them.

    Doc Fraiser is not yet out of the final list, but her chances are not good. I'm sorry, but the major mark against her has little to do with her character, and more to do with my limited time contraint. Having to allocate class time so judiciously, I'm focusing on other more prominant Sci-fi figures, and under my own personal yard stick (because as much as I would like to remain neutrally objective the majority of the time, some issues *are* going to be determined by my own preferences), I think Teyla has more to offer to this class than Doc Fraiser. So, Carterslave, while I thoroughly appreciate your imput, I'm inclined to stick to the core four of Sam, Weir, Vala, and Teyla. Still, it ain't over until I've signed off on the final syllabus come December. People can be advocates for Fraiser as much as they want. Even if she doesn't make the cut for my class, I'm sure it'll make interesting conversation for this thread!

    Wikeja - I've actually never seen 'The Lost World,' so without further research, I couldn't talk about it (or the female in it) with any sort of intelligence. But it's made my list for research, so thanks for that!!!

    Purpleyin, your suggestion of 'Lost' is one of the few that caught me off-guard!!! I so overlooked that one, and it's one of those TV shows that I cannot believe I missed! I would love to put them in, but only if we have time. We'll see. Thanks for the suggestion. (Side Note: Xkawaiix, thanks for the offer. I'll keep it in mind!)

    Chyron - EXAMS???? That would defeat the purpose of a decal!!! Seriously, I don't think I've ever heard of a decal class that makes exams mandatory. For my class, it's going to be lenient. At Berkeley, you got enough hard-core classes. The decals are suppose to be fun and enjoyable and, yes, one of the classes you DO NOT have to worry about during Finals Week. To pass most decal classes, all you need is strong attendance, participation in discussion, and a paper due at the end of the semester. My class will be no different. A six page paper, about anything relating to Sci-fi Women, is due on the last day of class. Topics are self-chosen (with approval by me or my co-instructor).

    As for my earlier question, “Do you like the women of Stargate because we can identify with them, or because they represent the best of ourselves?” I should have phrased it better so that it addressed both male and female readers. That was my mistake, and Wikeja, thanks for bringing it to my attention. The answers were very interesting, and all this talk about double-standards and how women are often more critical of other women is actually going strait into my curriculum!

    Yay for good discussion! Keep it up!

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  • chyron
    replied
    Off topic, but related...

    Have you thought about what will be required of the students in terms of mid-term and final exams?

    I took a course where the Instructor gave us 20-25 questions and told us that 4 of them would make up the mid-term. We were to research and answer the questions in advance and then on the day of the exam, walk in and answer the actual 4. The point was for us to become so familar with the subject matter that we could discuss it off the top of our head.

    The FINAL exam was a bit easier, she gave the actual 4 questions and did the same.

    In both instances, we could not walk in with anything other than our pens and blue-books. The other thing was that her expectations of our answers were higher since we had the opportunity to research them in advance. Also, the questions were such that EACH question easily had at least 1 page or more of writting required to answer them. (Almost like comps...)

    Oh and you'll want to include Seven of Nine (Jeri Ryan) From Star Trek:Voyager. The producers introduced her specifically to go after a decided male population - namely teenage boys.
    Last edited by chyron; 06 October 2005, 08:59 PM.

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  • xkawaiix
    replied
    I'm not too good at describing Stargate female characters besides the words "They ROCK!"
    lol, but Lost is... fairly easy. Just saying in case, you know, you needed help with that too Whistler.

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  • stargate barbie
    replied
    Males traditionally are raised not to show what is considered their feminine side
    because of the whole orientation thought.
    thats another example in a way. showing ones feelings is considered a mans "feminine side". because traditionally its only women who are socially allowed to show emotions and such.

    Leave a comment:


  • Purpleyin
    replied
    I just realised Lost is another good show, I haven't really had any complaints about any writing on there, let alone the female characters. Sure there are more men but the female roles are interesting - Kate, Claire, Danielle, Sun, Shannon - they aren't perfect and they're interesting because of it - to me at least they feel real. I figure it comes under either fantasy or science fiction, but I'm not sure which yet...
    Last edited by Purpleyin; 06 October 2005, 02:33 PM.

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  • LaCroix
    replied
    Originally posted by stargate barbie
    i often find that it is women who apply the double standard upon other women, and men apply it to other men. as a side note, i frequently encounter situations in which women who claim to be feminists seeking equal opportunities are actually seeking superiority rather than equality. and i find that most of the time its that situation that gives feminists a bad name.

    here's a theory, perhaps in the case of stargate, sam gets more hassle because she is sometimes a little more open with her feelings. the writers are all men. could the reason for this be that they think its ok for a woman to talk about this stuff but not for a man?
    i'm watching Lost City right now, and every time someone tries to say what they think or how they feel, jack stops them.
    take revelations in season 5 for example. sam was the only one openly mourning daniel jackson. the other two were being the big strong men. occasionally it will be necessary in the show for one of the guys to openly display emotion, but its never really done to the same extent that it is with sam.
    is this because the writers view it as okay for a woman and not for a man do be open with their feelings?

    I think this is more of a nurture rather then nature statement. If you look at more action related shows, the masculine side shows more often than not.
    Males traditionally are raised not to show what is considered their feminine side
    because of the whole orientation thought.
    Last edited by LaCroix; 05 October 2005, 01:07 PM.

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  • wikeja
    replied
    If fantasy is included...The Lost World.
    The heroine, I do not even know her name. All I see is boobs and gorgeous blond. Definitely a sexist, male created role. Or could I be wrong?

    Leave a comment:


  • Crichton
    replied
    Originally posted by stargate barbie
    i often find that it is women who apply the double standard upon other women, and men apply it to other men. as a side note, i frequently encounter situations in which women who claim to be feminists seeking equal opportunities are actually seeking superiority rather than equality. and i find that most of the time its that situation that gives feminists a bad name.
    I've heard from a lot of girls I know that it can be very difficult to even have other friends that are girls. They thought it would be much easier for a guy to make friends with other guys. Their theories on probable cause were primarily jealousy, and insecurity centered around being afraid their girlfriends would flirt with guys they liked/dated. .

    ..just my $0.02 (I saw someone else do this and thought it was funny)

    Leave a comment:


  • stargate barbie
    replied
    Originally posted by Whistler84
    Oh, and my co-instructor wanted to poise a question. Do you like the women of Stargate because we can identify with them, or because they represent the best of ourselves?
    both. they are believable and human, but also remarkable people whom we can look up to. they are mostly brilliant role models (not the goa'uld ones obviosly ) and are people whom we can aspire to be more like.
    i've heard plenty of stories of people's children (daughters) deciding they wanted to go into science because of sam carter.

    i used to want to either go into science or medicine, and i'm sure it was no coincidence that one of my favourite actresses was gillian anderson. (this was before my stargate days, and i'm sure had i been that age when SG-1 was on i would have counted carter as an influence on my juvinille career considerations.)

    Leave a comment:


  • stargate barbie
    replied
    i often find that it is women who apply the double standard upon other women, and men apply it to other men. as a side note, i frequently encounter situations in which women who claim to be feminists seeking equal opportunities are actually seeking superiority rather than equality. and i find that most of the time its that situation that gives feminists a bad name.

    here's a theory, perhaps in the case of stargate, sam gets more hassle because she is sometimes a little more open with her feelings. the writers are all men. could the reason for this be that they think its ok for a woman to talk about this stuff but not for a man?
    i'm watching Lost City right now, and every time someone tries to say what they think or how they feel, jack stops them.
    take revelations in season 5 for example. sam was the only one openly mourning daniel jackson. the other two were being the big strong men. occasionally it will be necessary in the show for one of the guys to openly display emotion, but its never really done to the same extent that it is with sam.
    is this because the writers view it as okay for a woman and not for a man do be open with their feelings?

    Leave a comment:


  • wikeja
    replied
    Originally posted by Whistler84
    Oh, and my co-instructor wanted to poise a question. Do you like the women of Stargate because we can identify with them, or because they represent the best of ourselves?
    I thought this class was open to females and males. The question, however, seems to be addressed toward women. The only way to semi-accurately draw a picture of popular opinion on the subject is to acquire a representative sample.

    I assume you must draw some conclusions upon completion of the class and fail to see how that can happen without an unbiased audience with which to converse. I am not saying that a class composed of women is incapable of rendering well thought out opinions on any question posed. I am only saying our life experiences shape our thought processes and mechanisms for reasoning and believe that men and women are likely to have radically different views given the same information on which to contemplate.

    Example: Picture: A well known female actress (statuesque) dressed in a baggy jumpsuit.

    Possible female interpretation: Admired for attempting a role using parsonality and charisma rather than depending on physical attributes to carry the scene.

    Possible male interpretation: I know she's hot so why is she covering her body? She must be hiding something.

    I would never say that these interpretations represent significant portions of any of the representative segments only that they show how diverse the answers may be to questions posed in your class.

    I think this class will give you an opportunity to explore the psyche of both the male and female if approached properly.

    I wish you well and eagerly await news of developments.

    By the way, has this a class been expanded to exploring fantasy as well as scifi? (LOTR, etc.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Carterslave
    replied
    Originally posted by Whistler84
    While Fraiser may be a great female character, I don't necessary think she's a great *Sci-fi* female character. That make any sense?
    Maybe I'm just thick, but I could use some 'splainin' of that last distinction. Since Dr. J supplied a lot of the science on the show (including performing medical procedures on Goa'uld symbiotes and keeping a straight face—no small achievement!), I don't see why she wouldn't make the cut. By contrast, Vala could exist in any number of other genres (and I think the panache of the performance is more responsible for the character's success than what's on the page), while Teyla hasn't been defined as a particularly distinctive or even interesting character, IMO. As written, she tends dangerously toward the Noble Savage archetype. That figure has a time-honored role in sci-fi, I suppose, but I'd argue for Teal'c and Ronon as better-written examples.
    Just my tuppence.

    ... but then I re-read the beginning of the thread.
    Even if Vala is "anti-feminist," I now think you should include her, even if only for that reason. It would be interesting to compare a character whose default mode is to lead with her sexuality, juxtaposed with someone like Weir or perhaps Carter who has a wider array of stratagems at her command. Also, what does the character of Vala say about how are women have or haven't progressed in science fiction. (BSG is a mother lode of female archetypes and anti-archetypes, so you'll definitely have a lot to choose from among Starbuck, Boomer, Six, Laura Roslin, Admiral Cain, etc.) I still think Teyla oughtn't to make the cut, partly because although she's nominally the leader of the Athosians, that aspect of her character has been pretty well forgotten, leaving us mostly with stick fights and bare navels, etc.
    You could really go to town with the character of Carter and what her evolution (or devolution, depending on one's point of view) says about the plight of women in a post-feminist society and the damned-if-you-damned-if-you-don't perception issues that arise. Dr. Fraiser combines the traditional healer/nurturer archetype with one of the better depictions of an independent, professional woman. Of course, if it's archetypes you want, there's always Oma ... and Hathor.
    Last edited by Carterslave; 05 October 2005, 12:53 AM.

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  • Carterslave
    replied
    Originally posted by ÜberSG-1Fan
    As for the case for Janet...she's more than just the NPM...she was a hero who loved her daughter, gave of herself completely to help others (stayed up for days when Daniel was dying), sacrificed herself in the course of her duties which she did without complaint, delightful role model, loves her friends, kept a very tight ship and was always in charge yet did so with finesse and authority, compassionate almost to a fault, fought for what she believed in...in short (ha ha ), next to Sam, Janet is one of the best female characters it's been my pleasure to watch. Hopefully all is not lost for Fraiser...well at least as it comes to this course.
    Well said! Dr. Fraiser definitely represents the best we can aspire to w/o ever ossifying into a plaster saint. TPTB wrote her as strong and Teryl Rothery—for whose talent my awe grows daily—wrapped that inner core of integrity with warmth, tenderness and humor. If you want a great role model, one can't do much better.

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  • majortrip
    replied
    Originally posted by Whistler84
    Oh, and my co-instructor wanted to poise a question. Do you like the women of Stargate because we can identify with them, or because they represent the best of ourselves?
    I think a little of both. I can identify Sam because my mom and my best friend served in the military, and I like to see positive protrayals of women in the military, even on scifi shows. In characters like Weir and Sam, I see her as a goal for what women can become in terms of leadership- they represent to me a way to break down barriers.

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  • Uber
    replied
    Originally posted by Whistler84
    Oh, and my co-instructor wanted to poise a question. Do you like the women of Stargate because we can identify with them, or because they represent the best of ourselves?
    Is that necessarily an either/or? I guess so in some cases...

    Because for me as a woman, I like the women of SciFi because I can identify with them in some areas and also because they represent the best of ourselves...AND because they embody character traits to which I wish to attain.

    But this only works for a select few...Sam, Elizabeth, Janet...and not so much for Vala or Sharon or Sixth...who I appreciate for completely different reasons...and none of which have to do with admiring their characters...but rather I appreciate each of these individually for being strong in their own right, be it for good or evil, without being witchy with a B. Vala and Sharon are in a class all of their own because although they seem to do the right thing when necessary, you can't depend on that always being the case.

    As for the case for Janet...she's more than just the NPM...she was a hero who loved her daughter, gave of herself completely to help others (stayed up for days when Daniel was dying), sacrificed herself in the course of her duties which she did without complaint, delightful role model, loves her friends, kept a very tight ship and was always in charge yet did so with finesse and authority, compassionate almost to a fault, fought for what she believed in...in short (ha ha ), next to Sam, Janet is one of the best female characters it's been my pleasure to watch. Hopefully all is not lost for Fraiser...well at least as it comes to this course.

    Leave a comment:

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