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  • xkawaiix
    replied
    Wow Camy, such depth! That was... wow.

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  • Jeyla4ever
    replied
    Wow...Whistler...you never ceased to amaze me!
    I just found this link in the Teyla thread..and I will warn you...I just scanned through the whole posting and I am feeling a little woozy so forgive me if I don't sound very coherent.....

    I think you know me enough to know who I will be addressing..Teyla....
    A lot of people here have posted many of the great qualities why I feel you should include this character....
    So, I don't want to repeat myself...I especially appreciate the different perspective that you got from the males in the thread..it is always important to see how they view a woman and how it affects them when viewing any type of TV show...

    But, before I continue..I have to say that I went to the link that you posted earlier from Sony in regards to the comments made towards Teyla....and sadly, I posted there....and I don't anymore..I found nothing intelligent from 99% of the people that posted there and nothing that challenged or intrigued my intellectual thoughts...I can respect other people's opinion, but I expect the same from them towards me as well....and frankly, in the month that I posted there I didn't find any indications of any sort of understanding from this...So, suffice to say that there are people out there with this kind of mentality...I wouldn't put too much importance to it because there just isn't any justification or grounds for their thinking beyond, she is hot or no she is not hot! What the heck does that mean?

    Moving on....Teyla is an interesting character which you must include...obvious reason for me...she represent an elite minority that is not represented enough in TV shows, period! I can challenge anyone with this statement...that in itself is a topic right there..controversial..but nevertheless, worth the mentioning...
    Second....she is a leader...regardless of whether she is portraying it now or not..that is one aspect of her character that has been introduced to us from day one and the fact that she is part of such a team is because she is there to represent her people and look out and defend her people from the Wraith.
    Third...she is a warrior...in every sense of the word she brings a new tactic and new skills and abilities that not only are show a powerful and efficient warrior but also that is just as useful as any weapon that the people from Earth can bring. She represent a different type of warrior, a new and unique way of looking at a female warrior that we in the military are not used to. .. A warrior that on many occasions has saved Atlantis and Sheppard's...all because of Teyla's abilities and these are still been developed in her character as the season progresses.
    Fourth....she is an alien...she has come into a new environment and emerged herself completely into a new culture completely different of her own in every sense of the word and all because she knows the importance of receiving and delivering any necessary skills in order to protect her people and those whom she is learning to care for....Not many people are willing to leave all of what they know behind and start a new life for their people...and this is what makes her even more a soulful and intriguing character...she knows very little about these people, yet in the year that she has been with them, not only do they care about her deeply, but are learning to respect her and accept her as one of their own and vice versa...Yet, she has preserved and retained her own values, morals and cultural background while adapting and conforming to those of the people she is learning to adjust to....and I just find this fascinating...

    In my opinion, yes, she was put there as the "hot alien babe" for the male figure..but what I respect and enjoy about what the writers have done is that although she is beautiful and does show her beauty and accentuates her curves, they have managed to incorporate those qualities and skills that Rachel has (her dancing skills, and singing skills) as part of her character, thus her sparring scenes, which clearly show her athletic and dancing skills...and most importantly, and Whistler you mentioned this beautifully, Teyla doesn't flaunt her beauty in the show like others in SciFi do...Even when she is wearing her skimpy outfits...she wears them with the same grace and poise that she does when she wears her Athosian outfits or her Team uniform, thus making her an attractive woman, that carries herself with respect and pride without having to excessively sell her appearance.

    As far as the other Athosians clothing compare to Teyla's....go back to the scene in Suspicion when the Athosians were going thru the Stargate and Teyla was up in the balcony with Weir....I remember seeing some pretty exposed cleavage.....in those Athosian girls....

    Finally, Teyla, IMO is developing into one of the strongest characters in SGA...in the short time that her role has been introduced she has been able to not only battle against her own demons from her own people's perception, but now she is struggling and defending herself and have to prove herself to a new group of people whom she is trying to adjust to and understand while not loosing her own beliefs and her own perception...She has the qualities of a woman who can have it all...and although realistically, there aren't many of those outthere..it can be achieve and we can strive to acquire those leadership skills, and still be as attractive inside as the outside...anything is possible with perseverance, work and determination...I think Teyla has all of the above.......

    Whistler...I am not even sure if this is what you are looking for..again...a little fuzzy as to the assignment..but I hope this helps...if not...just let me know and I will edit...

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  • chyron
    replied
    Originally posted by NotAscended
    In defense of a few moments of class time for Doc Fraiser, she is one of the few continuing characters in the SG-universe and sci-fi in general that has portrayed in any way as a woman character also mixing her job with motherhood. Scifi does provide a lot of strong female characters, but few are also moms. Some notable exceptions are Aeryn Sun in Peacekeeper Wars and the recurring character of Keiko O'Brian in Star Trek: DS9. Motherhood seems to be one of the primary real world aspects of feminity that sci-fi doesn't seem to know how to write or include in meaningful storylines. That fact, in and of itself, is a topic worthy of discussion!
    Actually it isn't so much motherhood as it is parenthood. Yes there have been parent-child relationships portrayed, but none of them have dealt with the challenges of being a parent. (Including Beverly Cursher and her snot nozed son.)

    Leave a comment:


  • majortrip
    replied
    Originally posted by chyron
    Its the woman who knows that shes a woman that a man is most attracted to. The type of woman who walks into a room and immediately everyone notices her not because of how she's dressed or how she looks or what she says, but simply because of her shear force of presence coming for the knowledge of who she is and what she is (in terms of a being).
    See, that's the something special I was talking about. Lots of men can see it, even when a woman can't. I doubt most women sit and reflect on what makes them special or unique. Lots of women get caught up in other people's perceptions about them or about women in general and then seek approval through external (appearance) means. The knowledge and self-respect for who and what a woman is doesn't come easily for lots of women. I'm not quite sure of the source of the criticism; there are probably many, real or percieved. However, I'm of the general opinion that everyone should spend some quality time alone with themselves and suss these things out. But, also, I watch a lot of Oprah.

    Leave a comment:


  • Whistler84
    replied
    Originally posted by NotAscended
    In defense of a few moments of class time for Doc Fraiser, she is one of the few continuing characters in the SG-universe and sci-fi in general that has portrayed in any way as a woman character also mixing her job with motherhood. Scifi does provide a lot of strong female characters, but few are also moms. Some notable exceptions are Aeryn Sun in Peacekeeper Wars and the recurring character of Keiko O'Brian in Star Trek: DS9. Motherhood seems to be one of the primary real world aspects of feminity that sci-fi doesn't seem to know how to write or include in meaningful storylines. That fact, in and of itself, is a topic worthy of discussion!
    Huh . . . Good point. Never thought about it that way.

    Leave a comment:


  • NotAscended
    replied
    Originally posted by Whistler84

    Doc Fraiser is not yet out of the final list, but her chances are not good. I'm sorry, but the major mark against her has little to do with her character, and more to do with my limited time contraint.
    In defense of a few moments of class time for Doc Fraiser, she is one of the few continuing characters in the SG-universe and sci-fi in general that has portrayed in any way as a woman character also mixing her job with motherhood. Scifi does provide a lot of strong female characters, but few are also moms. Some notable exceptions are Aeryn Sun in Peacekeeper Wars and the recurring character of Keiko O'Brian in Star Trek: DS9. Motherhood seems to be one of the primary real world aspects of feminity that sci-fi doesn't seem to know how to write or include in meaningful storylines. That fact, in and of itself, is a topic worthy of discussion!

    Leave a comment:


  • chyron
    replied
    Originally posted by majortrip
    I agree with this whole statement. Women do hold each other to very high standards. Most men I find don't care about a little extra weight, perfect nails, fashionable outfit; they're looking for that something special in a woman. I get irritated sometimes when I hear women complain about how advertising isn't representative of them, i.e. the models are too thin, etc. I can't think of an incident where my husband or former boyfriends or male friends have said "Why don't you look more like her?" It is usually "I want to look like her." When I was younger, I did run into that shallowness from younger and less worldly men, however.
    Also, since my older son has started school, I find myself observing other mothers giving long looks or making catty comments about each others' appearances. I agree that women dress up for other women. At a recent PTA meeting I saw several women checking each other out. I've made this statement in another thread, but I wonder if women will ever began to celebrate each other rather than judge each other.
    Its the woman who knows that shes a woman that a man is most attracted to. The type of woman who walks into a room and immediately everyone notices her not because of how she's dressed or how she looks or what she says, but simply because of her shear force of presence coming for the knowledge of who she is and what she is (in terms of a being).

    Leave a comment:


  • chyron
    replied
    Originally posted by Beatrice Otter
    Exactly my point. But you said it so much more elegantly
    I try.

    Leave a comment:


  • majortrip
    replied
    Originally posted by Beatrice Otter
    Well, I can't say about the male interpretation. But unless the actress is working out or jogging or just got out of bed, the most likely female interpretation is that she looks like a slob. Women are far more harsh judges of each others' clothing, makeup, and hair than men are. The whole thing about women supposedly dressing to look good for a man is mostly garbage, as most men don't really have a clue about women's clothing. And most women know it. In my experience, most women are far more concerned with what other women will think about their experience than what guys will think.
    I agree with this whole statement. Women do hold each other to very high standards. Most men I find don't care about a little extra weight, perfect nails, fashionable outfit; they're looking for that something special in a woman. I get irritated sometimes when I hear women complain about how advertising isn't representative of them, i.e. the models are too thin, etc. I can't think of an incident where my husband or former boyfriends or male friends have said "Why don't you look more like her?" It is usually "I want to look like her." When I was younger, I did run into that shallowness from younger and less worldly men, however.
    Also, since my older son has started school, I find myself observing other mothers giving long looks or making catty comments about each others' appearances. I agree that women dress up for other women. At a recent PTA meeting I saw several women checking each other out. I've made this statement in another thread, but I wonder if women will ever began to celebrate each other rather than judge each other.
    Last edited by majortrip; 08 October 2005, 08:25 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Beatrice Otter
    replied
    Originally posted by chyron
    I don't notice a woman because she's wearing a Versace. I don't even know what a Versace would look like, but I do know that its the woman who makes the dress. A man who is a man appreciates when a woman makes herself beautiful for him, not out of turning her into a thing or diminish her, but because he knows that is a privledge to gaze upon beauty.
    Exactly my point. But you said it so much more elegantly

    Leave a comment:


  • chyron
    replied
    Originally posted by Beatrice
    The whole thing about women supposedly dressing to look good for a man is mostly garbage, as most men don't really have a clue about women's clothing.
    I don't notice a woman because she's wearing a Versace. I don't even know what a Versace would look like, but I do know that its the woman who makes the dress. A man who is a man appreciates when a woman makes herself beautiful for him, not out of turning her into a thing or diminish her, but because he knows that is a privledge to gaze upon beauty.

    Leave a comment:


  • Beatrice Otter
    replied
    Originally posted by wikeja
    Example: Picture: A well known female actress (statuesque) dressed in a baggy jumpsuit.

    Possible female interpretation: Admired for attempting a role using parsonality and charisma rather than depending on physical attributes to carry the scene.

    Possible male interpretation: I know she's hot so why is she covering her body? She must be hiding something.
    Well, I can't say about the male interpretation. But unless the actress is working out or jogging or just got out of bed, the most likely female interpretation is that she looks like a slob. Women are far more harsh judges of each others' clothing, makeup, and hair than men are. The whole thing about women supposedly dressing to look good for a man is mostly garbage, as most men don't really have a clue about women's clothing. And most women know it. In my experience, most women are far more concerned with what other women will think about their experience than what guys will think.

    Leave a comment:


  • chyron
    replied
    Originally posted by Whistler84
    Chyron - EXAMS???? That would defeat the purpose of a decal!!! Seriously, I don't think I've ever heard of a decal class that makes exams mandatory. For my class, it's going to be lenient. At Berkeley, you got enough hard-core classes. The decals are suppose to be fun and enjoyable and, yes, one of the classes you DO NOT have to worry about during Finals Week. To pass most decal classes, all you need is strong attendance, participation in discussion, and a paper due at the end of the semester. My class will be no different. A six page paper, about anything relating to Sci-fi Women, is due on the last day of class. Topics are self-chosen (with approval by me or my co-instructor).
    Oh pardon me, forgot that BERKELEY was on the liberal side of things

    As to the question, I think that I'm neutral as to the question. I tend to like or dislike the characters (male or female) based on what they do and/or how they act. I personally liked Vala in the first episode that she appeared in, but I'm not entirely like her in the first part of Season 8. Less is more. Its the actress, since I did like her in Farscape. Another example, is that I just can't stand RODNEY McKAY on SGA. I never liked him when he appeared on SG1 and just hate him on SGA. However, his destroying 3/4 of a galaxy - pardon my 5/6ths since its not an exact science - won him some points. (For the line that is, you'd have to see to understand how funny of a line it is)

    Leave a comment:


  • stargate barbie
    replied
    Originally posted by wikeja
    Just something odd to contemplate.
    In the original BSG, the shallow womanizer was named Starbuck. The name was a play on words. Spaceman + male animal driven by base desires.
    In the new BSG, Starbuck is a female which is odd on its own. She does seem somewhat masculine and irreverent and confused.
    Also, I find her quite unattractive. Not to say she isn't pretty. She just oozes too much testosterone I guess.
    Not meaning to piss anyone off. She is an interesting character and I like the new BSG. Just wanted to offer my obs.
    i quite like this element. how often do you see real tomboy on a tv show. and i'm not talking about the ugly kid with braces type of character. i mean a grown up woman, who's tough as nails, has an attitude but is still likeable and all womanly to boot.

    i was very intrigued to see who they had cast as starbuck and how she'd play it. i was very torn with the whole, starbuck-as-a-woman thing. on one side i thought it was a great idea, but on the other i couldn't help but wonder how they would achieve this, as the first starbuck was very much a mans man.

    its also worth noting similar issues with boomer, who is also female in the new BSG. and considerably more feminine than starbuck.

    Leave a comment:


  • wikeja
    replied
    Just something odd to contemplate.
    In the original BSG, the shallow womanizer was named Starbuck. The name was a play on words. Spaceman + male animal driven by base desires.
    In the new BSG, Starbuck is a female which is odd on its own. She does seem somewhat masculine and irreverent and confused.
    Also, I find her quite unattractive. Not to say she isn't pretty. She just oozes too much testosterone I guess.
    Not meaning to piss anyone off. She is an interesting character and I like the new BSG. Just wanted to offer my obs.

    Leave a comment:

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