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    #31
    Originally posted by ÜberSG-1Fan
    Interesting point about Beachhead...but at that point, she was merely on a TDY and the mission was SG-1's mission (well the only member of SG-1 at that point was Mitchell, but that's another story).

    She was there merely to make sure the device detonated without incident and then when that mission was completed, she was going to return to Area 51...so the team issue or who was in charge on that particular mission doesn't quite apply to the grander scheme of things...

    True, but she's still acknowledging that Mitchell leads the team. Not her.
    And by rejoining, she's accepting his leadership.

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      #32
      Yes I agree with many that say that Carter should lead SG-1. The number of years working for the SGC, all the off-world experience, and leading SG-1 previously would make a better leader now for SG-1.

      I thought the first of Babylon showed how green an officer Mitchell is for off-world travel. He's smaking his gum and talking like he is hiking through the montains in Colorado and not off-world. Also talking after Teal'c told him he heard something (any seasoned officer should know to zip it at this point or give your location away). IMHO it seems the writers are indicating he has a lot to learn from Carter, Daniel and Teal'c all of whom are seasoned off-world officers.

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        #33
        I agree with MediaSavant. Our personal opinions on how well Mitchell is leading don't matter. All that matters is what has been said on the show, not in interviews. In the show, Landry gave Mitchell the command of SG-1. He, himself, said he was the leader in Beachhead. And iin that same ep, Carter deferred to him for decisions. Mitchell is the one who asked the others to rejoin *his* team. His team, not Carter's team. And when Carter rejoined, she accepted a badge from Mitchell. In ever meeting, Landry gives Mitchell the orders for the team, not Carter. And in Babylon, it was clear to me that Mitchell was in charge. Carter didn't take charge until Mitchell went missing, which is exactly what she should do.

        I can't think of a single moment where Carter gave Mitchell an order or anyone referred to her as the leader.

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by ann_sgcfan
          Yes I agree with many that say that Carter should lead SG-1. The number of years working for the SGC, all the off-world experience, and leading SG-1 previously would make a better leader now for SG-1.

          I thought the first of Babylon showed how green an officer Mitchell is for off-world travel. He's smaking his gum and talking like he is hiking through the montains in Colorado and not off-world. Also talking after Teal'c told him he heard something (any seasoned officer should know to zip it at this point or give your location away). IMHO it seems the writers are indicating he has a lot to learn from Carter, Daniel and Teal'c all of whom are seasoned off-world officers.
          Good post.
          I think Mitchell is in command of SG-1 but only because TPTB want a guy in charge. What’s so funny is that TPTB are writing him so inept it’s hard to believe he is in charge.

          To me every time Carter is in a scene she seems (to me) to be competent and to be more in command, she knows what’s going on, she knows what to do, she is calm and cool, she takes recon seriously, she knows how to take cover, she knows how to shoot a P-90. So far the way they have written and directed Mitchell is the exact opposite.

          Although Mitchell certainly seems like a competent pilot, on a ground SG team he seems like he’s pretty clueless (ok he’s new).

          He seems like he’s not sure what the procedures are (ok he’s new).

          He’s very excitable (ok he’s new).

          He doesn’t seem to take recon seriously (--- really no excuse for this behavior. Note all the others had both hands on their weapons so they would be ready in case of attack and they were all looking around while Mitchell was just strolling, holding his weapon loosely at his side in one hand, chewing his gum and talking up a storm).

          He apparently doesn’t know how to take cover, but then I guess taking covers pretty hard when you fire the P-90 the way he was doing instead of properly sighting it.

          He also did call for backup and he stayed behind for no good reason. As Dark Agent pointed out in another thread, Teal’c had the heavy support weapon and really should have been the one covering their six. It was a very, very incompetent decision… but necessary for the plot.

          I just think if TPTB want this guy in charge so badly they really, really need to give us something, anything to show he should be in charge. So far I’ve seen nothing and the only compelling argument is the sad “what else would he do if he wasn’t in charge”… that’s how useless TPTB have made this character so far….hopefully that will change I like BB and so far I like Mitchell well enough and he is a little less ford-a-fied after that last ep, but still not enough that justifies him being in charge of 3 far more experienced people. I just hope TPTB give us something... otherwise it will be hard to continue suspending disbelief... the only other option is to never put Mitchell in the same scenes with any of the others.
          Joseph Mallozzi -"In the meantime, I'm into season 5 of OZ (where the show takes an unfortunate hairpin turn into "the not so wonderful world of fantasy")"

          ^^^ Kinda sounds like seasons 9 and 10 of SG-1 to me. Thor, ya got Aspirin?

          AGateFan has officially Gone Fishin (with Jack, Sam, Daniel, Teal'c) and is hoping Atlantis does not take that same hairpin turn.

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by Busterfan
            Mitchell is the one who asked the others to rejoin *his* team. His team, not Carter's team.
            Okay. If you want to argue CANON vs. NON-CANON then yes. Mitchell was definitely in charge of "SG-1" (at the beginning of the season, before Carter arrived).

            Is he still in charge?

            Originally posted by Busterfan
            I agree with MediaSavant. Our personal opinions on how well Mitchell is leading don't matter. All that matters is what has been said on the show.
            LOL. That's all that matters, huh?

            Thinking for ourselves doesn't?

            A bad plot device is still a bad plot device, no matter how much the "guy who wrote it" gets paid.

            Thus far, in canon, we haven't seen even a glimpse of the issue of Mitchell vs. Carter with respect to command of SG-1. So lets assume you're right and he is "IN CHARGE" according to the "powers that be".

            That doesn't convince me that as intelligent viewers, we shouldn't all wonder what the hell universe we've supposedly transported to. Or that the whole notion of Mitchell taking over Carter's old team once she's back on it, isn't ridiculous and illogical.

            Two Lt. Colonels on the same tactical team is dicey enough. But in this case, one of them has nearly a decade of experience in the field offworld, the other has [drumroll] nearly none.

            We're supposed to gleefully swallow that the Colonel with no offworld experience gets to keep command of the unit once its re-joined by the Colonel with nearly a decade of experience (who incidentally already had command of the same unit last year, according to Joe Mallozzi). So that means what? She's Colonel Newbie's new subordinate?

            Right. Sure. Moving along.

            This isn't a pre-school game: "You left your seat! You were gone and then I came, so now I get it! ha ha ha!". This is command of a tactical military exploration unit.

            One Colonel clearly has SGC command and field experience superior to the other. Lets give the newbie command...

            Duh?!

            If Colonel Newbie really is is charge, even now that Carter's been reactivated as a member of SG-1, then I have to imagine that the decision was made by Robert Cooper's gerbil while he was in the shower.

            UberSG-1Fan is absolutely right. If we're supposed to swallow that line of bull, as viewers, I think we're owed at least some semblance of an intelligent explanation as to why.

            Avoiding the issue entirely because even the great "powers that be" can't figure out how to explain it doesn't hold water for me. Sorry.

            Someone on one of the boards once asked what was going on with Carter/Mitchell and I believe JM's answer was "it's not an issue."

            Well, you know what? He's right. It's not an issue. It's a great big honking plot hole. That's what it is. Big enough to fly an Asgard Mothership through. So really, the "powers that be" should consider making it a damn issue if you ask me. Because even so-called casual viewers of SG-1 get the fact that Carter and Mitchell hold the same rank, but not the same experience.


            M.G. (yes, yes, I'm sure I'm about to be simply roasted alive... Game on.)
            Last edited by minigeek; 11 September 2005, 06:36 PM.

            Live On Stage in Toronto - August 8,9,10 2008
            ~all proceeds to benefit charity~

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              #36
              Originally posted by minigeek

              A bad plot device is still a bad plot device, no matter how much the "guy who wrote it" gets paid.

              Thus far, in canon, we haven't seen even a glimpse of the issue of Mitchell vs. Carter with respect to command of SG-1. So lets assume you're right and he is "IN CHARGE" according to the "powers that be".

              That doesn't convince me that as intelligent viewers, we shouldn't all wonder what the hell universe we've supposedly transported to. Or that the whole notion of Mitchell taking over Carter's old team once she's back on it, isn't ridiculous and illogical.

              Two Lt. Colonels on the same tactical team is dicey enough. But in this case, one of them has nearly a decade of experience in the field offworld, the other has [drumroll] nearly none.

              We're supposed to gleefully swallow that the Colonel with no offworld experience gets to keep command of the unit once its re-joined by the Colonel with nearly a decade of experience (who incidentally already had command of the same unit last year, according to Joe Mallozzi). So that means what? She's Colonel Newbie's new subordinate?

              Right. Sure. Moving along.



              One Colonel clearly has SGC command and field experience superior to the other. Lets give the newbie command...


              UberSG-1Fan is absolutely right. If we're supposed to swallow that line of bull, as viewers, I think we're owed at least some semblance of an intelligent explanation as to why.

              Avoiding the issue entirely because even the great "powers that be" can't figure out how to explain it doesn't hold water for me. Sorry.

              Someone on one of the boards once asked what was going on with Carter/Mitchell and I believe JM's answer was "it's not an issue."

              Well, you know what? He's right. It's not an issue. It's a great big honking plot hole. That's what it is. Big enough to fly an Asgard Mothership through. So really, the "powers that be" should consider making it a damn issue if you ask me. Because even so-called casual viewers of SG-1 get the fact that Carter and Mitchell hold the same rank, but not the same experience.


              M.G. (yes, yes, I'm sure I'm about to be simply roasted alive... {sigh} Game on.)

              Great post. It is big issue and TPTB have not addressed it convincingly at all. I want to say that I like BB, so this has nothing to do with the actor---it is all in the writing.

              I think TPTB were too afraid to have the female lead in the show actually lead SG1 in season 9. And they really didn't let Sam lead in season 8 much I think for several reasons: 1) they still wanted to play around RDA; 2) they thought the show would be over so what difference does it make to have Sam really lead; 3) they don't know how to write a female officer as a leader offworld (even though they really could if they tried--Sam was quite competent in Babylon leading when she needed to).

              As a long time fan, I have to believe that there is some realism here. And I'm not buying it yet. Mitchell and Carter are the same rank (yes maybe Mitchell has more time in as Lt. Col.), but Carter has eight years of gate experience. We have to be given a good reason why Carter is not actually leading, and I don't see it yet. Friends of mine aren't even really seeing Mitchell as the leader even though Landry assigned him this position.

              Maybe TPTB thought the fans really wouldn't care too much if they just gloss over it or make it vague---but many of us do care about it. When it was announced that Mitchell was a Lt. Col. months ago, it was like--what? What does that mean for Carter?

              I wished I could see good reasons for why Mitchell is leading and not Sam. the more I watch season 9, the less I see it.

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by Lightsabre
                I think he's proven adept at it so far.
                IMO, Babylon has reinforced that Mitchell has no business being ON this SG1 never mind being in command of it (if he even is). In the first 2 eps Carter was back it was painfully clear to me that Carter is the superior officer, soldier, leader to Mitchell and her presence has, IMO, solidified that Mitchell is quite unqualified to be in command of anything remotely related to this SG1 team, if you did not visit the forum and were a casual viewer my guess is that most people would have thought Carter was in charge in EDM and BH. (TPTB have certainly kept it vague enough). As for Babylon, the opening scene alone solidified for me that Mitchell is not fit to command THIS SG1. And I still have no idea what his purpose is or what he brings to THIS SG1 that did not already exist with Sam, Daniel and Teal'c.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by Lightsabre
                  Given that, Cameron is in command and he will keep that command till he demonstrates he's unfit for it.
                  I think he's proven adept at it so far.
                  rofl, have you even seen Babylon? From what I saw in the opening scene, Mitchell should be sent back to basic training...
                  He pretty much ignore Teal'c's warning that he'd heard something and just stands next to Daniel yakking on about something. Never mind the fact that there could be bad guys around. Then he 'heroically orders' everyone to get back to the gate while he covers them - with his SUB MACHINE GUN. Never mind the fact that Teal'c is carrying a support weapon designed specifically for those kind of situations. Then his 'covering fire' leaves alot to be desired. Spraying from the hip is what gangsters do in movies - not supposedly highly trained military officers.
                  The person who showed adept leadership during that little skirmish was Carter...

                  He spent '6 months in Airborne Training at Fort Benning' and he can't even get these basics right? (btw, he doesn't wear a parachutist badge, so I doubt much came out of his Airborne Training.) Oh, and how are we meant to believe that he goes and does Airborne Training WHILE ALSO commanding a USAF Fighter Squadron??? If anyone's qualifications are unbelievable on this team, it's Mitchell's...

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                    #39
                    IMO, Carter should be leading the SGC as a General by now!! It is the path O'Neill took, and I see Carter being just as or more qualified for the position than he was. General Landry should not have been brought in, despite my fondness for the character. The lead of SG-1 should indeed be in Mitchell's hands, but the SGC needs to be run by Carter. She is a familiar face to all of our offworld allies, and is very knowledgable regarding all things stargate.
                    Just my dirty little opinion. =]

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by CueBa'al
                      IMO, Carter should be leading the SGC as a General by now!! It is the path O'Neill took, and I see Carter being just as or more qualified for the position than he was. General Landry should not have been brought in, despite my fondness for the character. The lead of SG-1 should indeed be in Mitchell's hands, but the SGC needs to be run by Carter. She is a familiar face to all of our offworld allies, and is very knowledgable regarding all things stargate.
                      Just my dirty little opinion. =]
                      LOL. General Samantha Carter. Has a nice ring to it...but you know...hmmm. Perhaps Major to Brigadier General in a year in a half might be pushing the boundaries of believability...unlike Jack going from Bird Colonel to Major General in the same period of time...which is of course WAY believable.

                      Sam isn't quite ready to hang up her P90 just yet though. I mean, she tried for awhile for Cassie's sake and for OTHER reasons...but the gate beckoned...


                      ...You're ALWAYS Welcome in Samanda: Amanda's Community of New Fans and Old Friends...

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                        #41
                        Originally posted by starellen1
                        Nope, sorry that's not how the military works. If Sam was still a major and Camron was the Lt Col, Cameron would be in charge and Sam would be taking orders from him and she would address him as Sir.
                        Actually, that is how the military works. In certain circumstances, a more qualified officer will be placed in command of a unit, despite the presence of a higher ranked officer. As unit commander, they give the orders, but the senior officer is still due the respect and deference of his rank. This is not unrelated to the way command of a naval vessel works; which is to say that the Captain is in charge, even if he's a Lieutenant on a ship full of Admirals.
                        Behold the majesty that is...GERALD!
                        - Read The Prophet's fan fiction at The Lost Vegas Public Library.

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                          #42
                          Originally posted by Mr Prophet
                          Actually, that is how the military works. In certain circumstances, a more qualified officer will be placed in command of a unit, despite the presence of a higher ranked officer.
                          Very true. Which (again) illustrates that (in this case) even if Carter were still a Major, she'd be given command of SG-1. Considering she is without question, the more experienced and more qualified SGC officer. Mitchell may be a crackerjack squadron leader in the USAF, but Carter would blow him away at Stargate Command with nearly a decade of experience offworld in the field. There'd be no contest with respect to an SG field-team command.

                          I could see them giving Mitchell command of the first off-world air(space) squadron implemented by Earth, however. That'd be neat.

                          M.G.

                          Live On Stage in Toronto - August 8,9,10 2008
                          ~all proceeds to benefit charity~

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                            #43
                            I'm having fun reading this debate, especially since it is like all ambiguous things Stargate-related and is merely a matter of perception. I think TPTB know that things like this drive the fans crazy... AND keep them watching... and we won't get a definitive answer one way or another as long as they can keep it ambiguous.

                            And when I say ambiguous, I only mean that it can be interpreted different ways. I am certain that, lack of field experience or not, Cam is in charge of SG-1 & I have very clear reasons for thinking so. But, the people who think Sam is in charge have their own reasons, hence the ambiguity...

                            One thing that struck me in this though (and I am not picking on you, I promise, it just struck me funny):

                            Originally posted by ÜberSG-1Fan
                            There's nothing in his character that I've seen that says to me, "Wow...this guy is so the leader here!" In fact, I got that vibe from Carter, who was the one to call for backup, lead the search efforts, etc.
                            ...So... did you actually expect Mitchell to coordinate his own rescue? I mean, I know we expect a lot out of our SG-1 leaders, but it seems to be asking a bit much that the man coordinate backup & rescue efforts when he is the one who needs to be rescued and is actually (we assume) on another planet entirely...


                            Comment


                              #44
                              All of this kinda makes me wonder if the Air Force Consultant is ever even used anymore.

                              I had idea about the blue thingy with the leaves on it and what that meant in regards to Mitchell's rank (funny how NO ONE called him "Colonel Mitchell" in the flashbacks). I had no idea what Fort Benning was (and I couldn't even understand him when he said it). I didn't even know that, theoretically, a Major could lead a team over an LC.

                              But, the funny thing is, A LOT OF FANS do know these things (incuding the "casual viewers"), and if TPTB/SciFi/The Air Force want to keep shoving it down our throats that this show is being portrayed as realistically as possible, then something's gotta give here.

                              As much as I sympathize with them for having to deal with the likes of us, I have no pity for them if they honestly think that certain fans won't take note of the incongruities of the series. That's a level of arrogance that probably should be checked immediately.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Oh, and how are we meant to believe that he goes and does Airborne Training WHILE ALSO commanding a USAF Fighter Squadron??? If anyone's qualifications are unbelievable on this team, it's Mitchell's...
                                I've assumed since the beginning that he would do such training AFTER recovering from his injuries in preparation for his new job at SG-1.

                                Order of events:
                                Command Squadron
                                Injury
                                Recovery
                                New training to be on SG-1
                                Assigned to SG-1 after training.

                                The injury happened two years ago, didn't it?

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